Cyberpunk 2077

polonyc2 said:
so it's more about the efficiency of the architecture of the new 4000 series...meaning every subsequent generation will make use of SER more efficiently...so my 3080 can use SER but it won't see the huge gains that something like the 4090 will get...I'm curious if CDPR will make the new patch exclusive to the 4000 series
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SER won't be enabled on any RTX 3000-series. It relies on hardware-level features in the GPU core that changed from GA to AD. The architecture in RTX 4000 series is reworked to allow operation similar to Out-Of-Order-Execution on CPUs which is a prerequisite for SER re-ordering instructions.

I would be surprised if RTX 3000 series got locked out of Cyberpunk RT Overdrive mode though, it gives NV another opportunity to show some graphs of AD104 gapping GA102 in optimized games.
 
spaceman said:
Nvidia likes gapping consumers.
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I'm sure they could enable it on older hardware, but just like ray tracing on Pascal it would run like shit. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

For what it's worth, NVIDIA says it's works on all NVIDIA video cards with DXR 1.0. I take that to mean you could make it work on Turing, but you're not going to see the same performance gains as Lovelace, if any at all, since the latter was designed with SER in mind.

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/i...frame-rates-with-shader-execution-reordering/
 
Armenius said:
I'm sure they could enable it on older hardware, but just like ray tracing on Pascal it would run like shit. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

For what it's worth, NVIDIA says it's works on all NVIDIA video cards with DXR 1.0. I take that to mean you could make it work on Turing, but you're not going to see the same performance gains as Lovelace, if any at all, since the latter was designed with SER in mind.

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/i...frame-rates-with-shader-execution-reordering/
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But my conspiracy!!!!! /s
 
I hope it is fairly big. Given the crap launch of the game, I hope they make up for it by having expanded the expansion. I don't want a 8 or so hour experience, I will probably finish it before I relearn all of the controls.
 
I still can't believe they're actually releasing a fully path traced update...even a 4090 will most likely not be able to handle it (even with DLSS 3)...a modern game with full path tracing?...even the crazy old games like Portal and Minecraft brought modern GPU's to their knees with PT
 
polonyc2 said:
I still can't believe they're actually releasing a fully path traced update...even a 4090 will most likely not be able to handle it (even with DLSS 3)...a modern game with full path tracing?...even the crazy old games like Portal and Minecraft brought modern GPU's to their knees with PT
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Pretty confident that's the idea....

"But can it play Crysis?"
 
horrorshow said:
Pretty confident that's the idea....

"But can it play Crysis?"
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this is going to be Crysis times 10...even a fairly modern GPU like a 3080 won't be able to handle it...I'm not even sure if a 5000 series GPU will...probably the 6000 series...this is true next-gen technology
 
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If offer 4k comp of RT off vs new RT on, would be nice to have also with the previous RT implementation.

Now it look extremelly different RT on vs RT off, but unlike some other setting, does it look better (versus more realistic which let say it does), will be somewhat a question of taste in many case.

15-17 fps on 4090 at native 4k in some part of the city, could be an example that 100 fps with DLSS3 feeling and looking better than what you can do with native 60 fps, will have to see once in the wild.
 
LukeTbk said:
If offer 4k comp of RT off vs new RT on, would be nice to have also with the previous RT implementation.

Now it look extremelly different RT on vs RT off, but unlike some other setting, does it look better (versus more realistic which let say it does), will be somewhat a question of taste in many case.

15-17 fps on 4090 at native 4k in some part of the city, could be an example that 100 fps with DLSS3 feeling and looking better than what you can do with native 60 fps, will have to see once in the wild.
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A good example is at 53 seconds. The scene looks like it has that horrible bright bloom type of lighting from the mid to late 2000s. It almost looks too bright.
 
Flogger23m said:
A good example is at 53 seconds. The scene looks like it has that horrible bright bloom type of lighting from the mid to late 2000s. It almost looks too bright.
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That was the case I had in mind, natural light during the day often look way too bright for comfort or look nice, strong daylight is terrible to film in and about never done (so much that it look nicer with sunglasses on), tv-movie-video games never actually does realistic lighting in that regard (outside some small short show of it) we don't want to put sunglass on to play a game we want the game to already wear it for us, same for how dark dark nights are, we are not interested in realistic darkness, almost always.

To be fair maybe youtube compression on a actual good HDR monitor and not some accept the signal without really doing it like mine that it look really nice
 
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the Overdrive advanced RT mode is the best advertisement for getting a 4000 series card...I'm sure Nvidia will be happy...I game at 1440p and was content with my RTX 3080 and planning on skipping this generation but now am tempted to buy a 4080 for this and also because of the increased VRAM requirements on new titles such as LoU and Hogwarts Legacy
 
I wish they'd just fix the goddamn game itself - content, depth, and more. Its sad the modders have added some game systems with more depth than what we've seen from CDPR (ie there's a mod that adds battles from vehicles and one that changes police reaction to something way more realistic, and much more), yet the focus is on a bloody new "Path tracing RT" at 4K which requires a 4090 WITH DLSS3 to have a playable framerate (without it, on a 4090 the video shows it drop to like 17 FPS!) and all the advance lighting tricks sometime mean a major loss of fidelity even in the demo vid they show!

This is something that at best only serves Nvidia owners with a 4090, yet the game itself still can use so much improvement just to get what was originally planned for CP2077. People are patient, its not even the kind of " No Man's Sky" overhaul needed and CDPR has done "Enhanced Edition Director's Cut" style overhauls in the past which had both technical and game system depth, content, and other fixes at the same time. How about focusing on that instead?
 
RanceJustice said:
This is something that at best only serves Nvidia owners with a 4090, yet the game itself still can use so much improvement just to get what was originally planned for CP2077. People are patient, its not even the kind of " No Man's Sky" overhaul needed and CDPR has done "Enhanced Edition Director's Cut" style overhauls in the past which had both technical and game system depth, content, and other fixes at the same time. How about focusing on that instead?
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CDPR confirmed awhile back that they are working on major gameplay improvements in an upcoming patch- police system overhaul and vehicle-to-vehicle combat being the primary ones
 
RanceJustice said:
I wish they'd just fix the goddamn game itself - content, depth, and more. Its sad the modders have added some game systems with more depth than what we've seen from CDPR (ie there's a mod that adds battles from vehicles and one that changes police reaction to something way more realistic, and much more), yet the focus is on a bloody new "Path tracing RT" at 4K which requires a 4090 WITH DLSS3 to have a playable framerate (without it, on a 4090 the video shows it drop to like 17 FPS!) and all the advance lighting tricks sometime mean a major loss of fidelity even in the demo vid they show!

This is something that at best only serves Nvidia owners with a 4090, yet the game itself still can use so much improvement just to get what was originally planned for CP2077. People are patient, its not even the kind of " No Man's Sky" overhaul needed and CDPR has done "Enhanced Edition Director's Cut" style overhauls in the past which had both technical and game system depth, content, and other fixes at the same time. How about focusing on that instead?
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Because their engine programmers aren't their gameplay programmers and that section of their team getting handies from the leather jacket squad probably has zero impact on gameplay change timeline
 
socK said:
Because their engine programmers aren't their gameplay programmers and that section of their team getting handies from the leather jacket squad probably has zero impact on gameplay change timeline
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Going full path tracing probably means retuning light sources etc. and that is most likely done by graphical artists, so it is likely that the ray tracing update pushes phantom liberty and other stuff backwards in the queue.

Nvidia is probably paying a lot of money for the full path tracing. Kind of strange that a game that is more than 2 years old is still among the flagship titles for ray tracing for Nvidia. I do believe ray tracing is the future, but there are very few have more than some shadows and reflections. So far I only have 3 games where ray tracing makes a big difference and cyberpunk is one of them. The other two are Control and Metro Exodus Enhanced edition. Not sure how many other games that have ray tracing that makes a huge difference as most games just do checkbox RT to put it in marketing and the end results has minor difference. My guess is it is less than 10 titles on the market where ray tracing is sorely missed if taken away, maybe even 5 or less.
 
evhvis said:
I do believe ray tracing is the future, but there are very few have more than some shadows and reflections. So far I only have 3 games where ray tracing makes a big difference and cyberpunk is one of them. The other two are Control and Metro Exodus Enhanced edition. Not sure how many other games that have ray tracing that makes a huge difference as most games just do checkbox RT to put it in marketing and the end results has minor difference. My guess is it is less than 10 titles on the market where ray tracing is sorely missed if taken away, maybe even 5 or less.
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I would agree about the number of titles where RT is a gamechanger but I would add a few more- Cyberpunk 2077, Metro Exodus: Enhanced Edition, Dying Light 2, Control, both Spider-Man games and Portal are the top tier RT titles...Doom Eternal also deserves a mention but is a step down from the other games in terms of RT implementation
 
polonyc2 said:
I would agree about the number of titles where RT is a gamechanger but I would add a few more- Cyberpunk 2077, Metro Exodus: Enhanced Edition, Dying Light 2, Control, both Spider-Man games and Portal are the top tier RT titles...Doom Eternal also deserves a mention
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I haven't tried the RT in doom eternal as it came so far after the game's release and haven't had the urge to revisit that title. Same for portal. Don't own the other titles on your list.
 
Not to get off topic, but Control is very worth it and quietly one of the better RT implementations (imho/ymmv). I can't wait to see this RT update to see if I can play it at all!
 
polonyc2 said:
the Overdrive advanced RT mode is the best advertisement for getting a 4000 series card...I'm sure Nvidia will be happy...I game at 1440p and was content with my RTX 3080 and planning on skipping this generation but now am tempted to buy a 4080 for this and also because of the increased VRAM requirements on new titles such as LoU and Hogwarts Legacy
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then again is a GPU upgrade really worth it for 1 game?...the chances of another fully path traced new AAA title is slim and none (path tracing is going to be reserved for really old games like Minecraft and Portal)...Cyberpunk advanced RT is just a special tech demo experiment paid for by Nvidia to get people to upgrade to a 4090...plus I'm doubting that even a 4080 or 4090 will be able to handle the new Overdrive RT patch (even with DLSS 3)

you're going to need at least a 5000 series GPU to really get the best experience
 
Armenius said:
The tech preview is available April 11.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...y-tracing-overdrive-update-launches-april-11/
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it's probably the YouTube compression but I wasn't blown away by the path-tracing implementation in that video...with it enabled it looks like they turned up the Bloom...the screenshots from the Nvidia website showed off path-tracing in the game a bit better than the YouTube video...I want to see a comparison between RT Psycho settings versus path-tracing
 
polonyc2 said:
it's probably the YouTube compression but I wasn't blown away by the path-tracing implementation in that video...with it enabled it looks like they turned up the Bloom...
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Cyberpunk 2077's new 'Overdrive' ray tracing mode actually kind of looks worse to me

The halos and bloom in the RTX "on" images are just a little too strong, and of the images demonstrating water reflections, the one with RTX turned off looks more realistic to my eye...

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2...cing-mode-actually-kind-of-looks-worse-to-me/
 
TangledThornz said:
Heh, glad I'm not the only one. Maybe it'll look better during actual gameplay?
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the screenshot comparisons with this new Overdrive patch look better than the video...everything looks like it was brightened up in a bad way...probably is more natural and the way it should look in real life but something looks off...plus they are calling it a 'Technology Preview' for a reason and will probably need multiple hotfixes/patches to fix performance issues

I was somewhat considering upgrading my 3080 to a 4080 for this but decided against it...I'm going to stick with my every other generation GPU upgrade cycle (will hold out for the 5000 series)...even a 4090 is not going to be able to run advanced RT without some issues...path tracing is way too hardware intensive and is the tech of the future, not the present

there's a reason only old games like Portal and Minecraft use full path-tracing...a modern AAA game using path tracing is insane (in a good way)...but it's pushing technology forward which is a good thing
 
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The video shows RT on vs PT on, screengrabs of both below, as suspected, the tech demo trailer cherry picked instances where RT is amplified, the same amplification is visible in normal hybrid RT, the differences are more subtle in RT vs PT:

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Is this worth the up to 40% performance cost? Certainly not, I think as a tech demo it is great, but I have no doubt people will go out and buy a 4080/4090 for Frame Generation as a result of this update alone. This game world isn't photo realistic enough to really show off what path tracing is capable of delivering in terms of visuals. The art style is such that it looks like a game still, whereas engines like UE5 are focusing on photo realism with hybrid RT methods instead. I think the latter is more compelling and better for gaming, you don't need the 40% performance expense, you get richer more detailed game worlds. Everybody wins.
 
robbiekhan said:
Is this worth the up to 40% performance cost? Certainly not, I think as a tech demo it is great, but I have no doubt people will go out and buy a 4080/4090 for Frame Generation as a result of this update alone. This game world isn't photo realistic enough to really show off what path tracing is capable of delivering in terms of visuals. The art style is such that it looks like a game still, whereas engines like UE5 are focusing on photo realism with hybrid RT methods instead. I think the latter is more compelling and better for gaming, you don't need the 40% performance expense, you get richer more detailed game worlds. Everybody wins.
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Shots like this basically don't work correctly in UE5 with software Lumen. Lumen won't properly shadow the people in software, so you're still hoping raster tricks will drag you over the finish line.
https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/attachment-files/2023/04/835517_zKnTHsB.png

Here's another one, where it'll probably succeed in lighting the environment, but those cars wouldn't cast a shadow properly.
https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/attachment-files/2023/04/835514_5Ds4wtj.jpg

Dynamic objects don't contribute to the scene unless you're using hardware RT because anything animated doesn't produce a distance field. It all comes back to hardware RT in the end, and there's a performance cost with it.
 
UE5 supports both hardware and software RT though, so depends totally on the implementation of it, just like how hardware RT can look whack in various games too or is bugged.
 
I'm not going to get wrapped around the axel before it's released. It will most likely look better in motion than in screenshots and I'm excited to see it even if it's a tech demo and not really playable full tilt yet.
 
path-tracing theoretically should produce a better, more realistic image based on the number of light sources being used...that being said CP2077 with RT set to Psycho looks really impressive...taking an old game like Portal without any RT at all and putting in full path-tracing is different than adding it to an existing RT game which already was one of the premiere RT showcases
 
robbiekhan said:
UE5 supports both hardware and software RT though, so depends totally on the implementation of it, just like how hardware RT can look whack in various games too or is bugged.
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Ya and you pay the performance cost for it. It's much heavier on CPU and GPU alike.

The RT tax man yearns for your frames as payment
 
robbiekhan said:


The video shows RT on vs PT on, screengrabs of both below, as suspected, the tech demo trailer cherry picked instances where RT is amplified, the same amplification is visible in normal hybrid RT, the differences are more subtle in RT

-Snip pics-
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robbiekhan said:
Is this worth the up to 40% performance cost? Certainly not, I think as a tech demo it is great, but I have no doubt people will go out and buy a 4080/4090 for Frame Generation as a result of this update alone. This game world isn't photo realistic enough to really show off what path tracing is capable of delivering in terms of visuals. The art style is such that it looks like a game still, whereas engines like UE5 are focusing on photo realism with hybrid RT methods instead. I think the latter is more compelling and better for gaming, you don't need the 40% performance expense, you get richer more detailed game worlds. Everybody wins.
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I guess I am a simple gamer...I notice no difference between the pics
 
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