Current Win 10 to Windows 7 UI setup?

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
This. Exactly. MS is still trying to "keep the tip in" with the ugly metro tiles on the frankenstart menu. Or they were. The CEO no longer cares about windows desktop, so the remnants of their failed mobile push will just continue to linger in Windows 10.
Why are people on the verge of smashing their foreheads into mirrors over Start tiles? *Just remove them.*
 

odditory

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
5,868
Why are people on the verge of smashing their foreheads into mirrors over Start tiles? *Just remove them.*
StartIsBack is one-click to install it, and never have to think about tiles, useless store apps, advertisements, or any other nonsense MS tries to crowbar into there in a future update.

By all means go ahead and continually remove tiles one by one every time you reinstall or a feature update might put them back. I'll continue to avoid bird shit by not standing under a tree. Hallelujah!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
721
Why are people on the verge of smashing their foreheads into mirrors over Start tiles? *Just remove them.*
Much (not all) of the Win10 hate is beyond me. Too many start tiles!!! uhh remove them. Control Panel is different! uhh nothing stays the same forever, get used to change.

StartIsBack is one-click to install it, and never have to think about tiles, useless store apps, advertisements, or any other nonsense MS tries to crowbar into there in a future update.

By all means go ahead and continually remove tiles one by one every time you reinstall or a feature update might put them back. I'll continue to avoid bird shit by not standing under a tree. Hallelujah!
Every time I install an OS (WinXP, Win7, Win10, etc) I have had to set the thing up to my liking. From task bar settings to wallpaper to icon adding/placement, remove/install software, change my Task Manager preferences, etc. To me, the initial setup of Windows 10 is about the same. Maybe a hoop or two more to jump through in Win10 but nothing that's made me lose sleep or rip my hair out. Just set it the way YOU want it and move on. Don't condemn the OS because you don't like the start menu tiles you can remove or whatever other small gripe you have.
 

Lunar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
398
Much (not all) of the Win10 hate is beyond me. Too many start tiles!!! uhh remove them. Control Panel is different! uhh nothing stays the same forever, get used to change.
While I partially agree with the sentiment here, mainly that change is inevitable and you need to get used to it, for me change isn't the problem. I'm fine with them choosing to change things around, my problem is when those changes are only partially implemented which results in a fractured UI. As I've said in earlier posts, if they want to remove control panel and shift to a modern settings menu, more power to them. The problem is the lack of consistency, and that's mainly due to the changes only being partially implemented. In my opinion, they should've had everything ready to go at launch, instead of having settings split between the new menu and the old control panel.

I'd also like to add that MS aren't the only ones guilty of this, but they are the most prominent. A trillion dollar corporation with the largest desktop OS in the world should be capable of making the changes they want without resorting to half measures. It's this new patch it over time mentality in software development in general that I can't stand. I understand that it isn't the 80's anymore where your OS took up only a few MB's, but it really feels like software development as a whole has taken a nose dive in recent years when it comes to quality. The most visible of this being the game industry. Not that long ago (~2006-ish) when a game was made for a console, it had to be good to go. Devs had one shot to get it right and ship it. Now games are released in a broken or incomplete state with massive day one patches as a regular business practice. I love when games are announced as having gone gold, because that announcement is effectively worthless nowadays.

Sorry for the somewhat OT rant there, but it's something that's been bothering for the last few years in the industry as a whole.
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
I can get over the start menu. It's different but not that different.

The UI - again, different, but not that different.

The settings/control panel thing though... some things are still the older control panel, some things are newer "Settings"... and every major patch revision they move things around. For instance: The Network Control Panel that you used to be able to get at by right clicking the Networking widget in the task bar -- now that's hidden and it takes you to the Networking Settings panel, which isn't the same thing at all). That does drive me nuts. Also some settings only adjustable with Pro/Enterprise, and not with Home.

Notifications are annoying.. now I get a notification that notifications are turned off so I can concentrate better. Except they just sent me a notification for that which keeps popping up...

And then there's the random crap for Office that will keep popping back up.

I bitch about it. I did like WIn7 better. Win7 wasn't perfect, it had plenty to bitch about too. But the world has moved on, and so am I.
It wasn't just you. Windows 7 was wildly successful and knocked it out of the park after the poorly performing Vista. It was much faster than Vista and more stable than XP. If it wasn't so easily bluescreened by flaky drivers/software and more resilient to infection they would have not lost so many users to Mac OS. Windows 10 addressed these issues very well, but not reverting back to their most popular UI (W7) in their entire history after the new Windows 8 team dropped the ball so badly was pure idiocy.
 

B00nie

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,168
tbh iver completly stopped using the start menu in windows 10
it just a horrie slow mess
Im solely use search/run now at least that make me circumwent the horrid setting/control panel navigation for most things
Same here. The start menu is completely useless. Only problem is, if you have to deal with several language versions of Windows, using search becomes a nightmare. You'd need to know the technical terms of tools and settings in several languages (which is a problem I face).
 

DeaconFrost

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
11,140
So would you prefer the alternative, to have an Apple-like environment that never changes, yet is repackaged as "new" and shoved down your throats? Technology changes. It evolves. That's why many of us are involved in the technology field as a profession. Maybe it's me getting older, but there are far more worthwhile things to be concerned about in the average day than a UI change. Does the OS work? Yes, yes it does. Does it run well? Yes, yes it does. You get used to the changes quickly, and you have the abilities to customize it to your liking. Windows 7 was very successful and Microsoft needed that "win" after Vista. But that was released in 2001, I think? Times have changed. Look back at the hardware you were using in 2001 to run Windows 7 as compared to what you have now. If some of my users can make the adjustment within a week or so, I'm sure readers of this forum won't have any issues.
 

pendragon1

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
15,876
umm we were still on xp in 2001, vista just starting development and 7 got off to a rocky start in 09(dev started in 03)
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
So would you prefer the alternative, to have an Apple-like environment that never changes, yet is repackaged as "new" and shoved down your throats?
Apple has a different kind of skin in the game, as the OS they make is paired to the hardware they make. macOS is little more than the thing that sells Macs. macOS's visible changes are usually minor, because the hardware physical changes are minor. Heck just changing the icons to Flat design had everyone in a tiff. Apple also doesn't care much about old device support, either outright by not having support for the hardware or stuff like focusing on Retina and leaving non-Retina stuff looking less pleasant.

Microsoft has the luxury of trying new and weird things because there's a zillion different types of PCs by different vendors and since it won't look perfectly matched on anything, why bother trying? MS doesn't even try to be consistent with their own Surface products (which isn't a bad thing necessarily). I like Win10's design about 90%.
 

Algrim

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Messages
1,653
So would you prefer the alternative, to have an Apple-like environment that never changes, yet is repackaged as "new" and shoved down your throats?
I suspect you don't have much interactions with Macs... I'm an OS whore (Linux/Minux/UNIX, Windows, Macs, QNX) and have no blind loyalty to a specific operating system (best tool for the job, is my motto) but macOS/OS X pro/re -gression exists between versions. For a while, Apple took a tick/tock approach; e.g. Leopard was the initial release, Snow Leopard was the version with more of the bugs removed.

Based on names, Sierra/High Sierra looks to be the last of that arrangement as I can't get there with Mojave and Catalina as being related. However my Mac Pro can't run Mojave or Catalina (beta) as I don't have a metal-compatible graphics card so I won't know how much the same or different they are until our IT department gets around to creating a Catalina image for the corporate laptop.
 

DeaconFrost

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
11,140
umm we were still on xp in 2001, vista just starting development and 7 got off to a rocky start in 09(dev started in 03)
I may have gotten my launch events mixed up. I know I went to one with my eventual wife in 2001. Couldn't remember if it was XP or 7.

I suspect you don't have much interactions with Macs...
I've supported a handful of them across two jobs for 13 years. That's more than enough for me. Since this thread has been talking about the UI, that's what I was discussing. I have plenty of other legitimate complaints that are the reason we're phasing them out.
 

criccio

Fully Equipped
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
12,645
By all means go ahead and continually remove tiles one by one every time you reinstall or a feature update might put them back. I'll continue to avoid bird shit by not standing under a tree. Hallelujah!
I'm curious, is this something people have to do? My Start Menu has looked like this for since I got this work laptop and set it up ~2 years ago. I've installed and updated this thing many, many times and I've never touched this.

THIS is how FUD is spread and it needs to stop.

cxELOAZ.png
 

mvmiller12

Gawd
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
927
This is my biggest issue with 10. It would be nice to have it all in one menu. They have removed functionality and moved other deep into menus in settings. Just trying to set a static up address or change an audio source is a headache using the new settings menu. I want one setting menu but I want all of the functionality to be there. This is a big problem that should have been addressed now. 10 is 4 years old.

About Audio Devices: Actually, switching audio devices in Windows 10 is far easier than it has ever been in any version of Windows prior. I have several audio devices I shuffle through, depending on my needs at the moment, and switching between them only requires that I click the speaker icon in the system tray. There is a dropdown arrow to the right of the device name. Click it and then click the output device you want to use and that new device becomes your default sound output, it is as simple as that. The only improvement I would like to see with this is a way to remove sound devices you never use, or at the very least, create a favorites list at the top. I never use the SPD/IF outs as such (Dolby Digital Live user here, I need to select Speakers to get my surround sound).

About desktop icons: Someone above said that the My Computer desktop icon is missing (and the Networking one as well). You can still bring this back. It's in Settings under "Themes" - there is a hyperlink that takes you to "Desktop Icon Settings" and there you can select which desktop Icons you want. I do this for every Windows install. My personal pet peeve is the default of hiding file extensions. How could that EVER have been a good idea? And it has allowed so much malware to sneak in due to file name confusion. On top of that, you have to go to the Control Panel to fix it. Which brings me to...

About the control panel: Microsoft can NEVER get rid of it and maintain their vaunted backwards comparability. There are non-Microsoft programs that use the Control Panel to add their own settings apps. I use one that allows me to change my default MIDI output device, for example (I have a Roland UM-One Mk II USB MIDI cable connected to an MT-32 and a SoundCanvas SC55mkII and far prefer the real Soundcanvas over the built-in software synth - and yes this matters because I have legacy MIDI software that only outputs to the default device). I wholeheartedly agree that the new Settings app should not have been rolled out until ALL of the Microsoft settings from the Control Panel had been integrated into it, even if only as links to the legacy control panel apps.

Regarding Windows 8: Windows 8's only real sin was that they made the new start screen mandatory. It was awesome when using touch devices like the Surface Pro and I miss it on my Surface Pro. It remains the best * touch * interface I have ever used. If they had had a an automagic switch that detected when you were using your device as a tablet or a mouse & KB desktop and switched UI accordingly, it would have been perfect. Hell, if they had had a toggle that let you use either it OR the classic start menu/desktop, there would have been next-to-no blowback about it... The new Windows 10 Hybrid approach is a shitty half-measure that is inferior to both. Windows 8 really did get the shit end of the stick, even it's support window is barely longer than Windows 7's.

Overall Windows 10 is plenty good enough. There are obviously things I DON'T like about it, and there are plenty of things I think were done better by prior versions, but overall, like I said, it is plenty good enough. And there are a kajillion ways to get free/low cost legit licenses for it.

Edit: Teh Grammarz.
 
Last edited:

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
So would you prefer the alternative, to have an Apple-like environment that never changes, yet is repackaged as "new" and shoved down your throats? Technology changes. It evolves. That's why many of us are involved in the technology field as a profession. Maybe it's me getting older, but there are far more worthwhile things to be concerned about in the average day than a UI change. Does the OS work? Yes, yes it does. Does it run well? Yes, yes it does. You get used to the changes quickly, and you have the abilities to customize it to your liking. Windows 7 was very successful and Microsoft needed that "win" after Vista. But that was released in 2001, I think? Times have changed. Look back at the hardware you were using in 2001 to run Windows 7 as compared to what you have now. If some of my users can make the adjustment within a week or so, I'm sure readers of this forum won't have any issues.
Pretty sure the suck it up, times change strategy of Microsoft is the exact reason why Apple quickly grew to be one of the richest companies ever. People like consistently in brands and only tolerate minor or gradual changes. Being too drastic or constantly changing things destroys brand loyalty. Which is exactly why this thread exists in the first place and why we are even having this conversation.

Edit: Using hardware from 2001 as a comparison goes against your argument. nVidia has been using "GeForce" since 1999. Video cards still look like video cards. Computer towers still look like towers. VR hasn't replaced monitors. Pentium is still a thing and the i7 name is pretty old now.
 
Last edited:

Dan_D

[H]ard as it Gets
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
55,514
I would just get used to Windows 10's UI. It isn't that bad. Just expect everything you did in two steps to take three or four. (Not that this truth helps my argument.)
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
I would just get used to Windows 10's UI. It isn't that bad. Just expect everything you did in two steps to take three or four. (Not that this truth helps my argument.)
I am used to it. I support over 1200+ PCs, over 100 iMacs/Macbooks and countless Android and iOS devices in an organization serving over 6500 clients.

Doesn't mean I don't spot terrible design choices along with millions of other disgruntled Microsoft users. Don't get get wrong, there is crap in every OS UI and don't get me started on mobile OEMs messing with Android. I am just quite vocal about Windows because its still my favorite OS, therefore I care more about it.
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
Pretty sure the suck it up, times change strategy of Microsoft is the exact reason why Apple quickly grew to be one of the richest companies ever. People like consistently in brands and only tolerate minor or gradual changes. Being too drastic or constantly changing things destroys brand loyalty. Which is exactly why this thread exists in the first place and why we are even having this conversation.
In 2006 Apple started shipping their first Intel-based machines. This came a decade after switching to PowerPC, and six years after an entire OS reset. Gluing in the battery, butterfly keyboards, USB-C-o-rama.. If there's one thing you can absolutely not accuse Apple of, it's consistency. Apple is big because "It's a phone, it's an iPod, and it's an internet communicator." In 2007, Macs just became that other thing Apple sold, to consumers and to Apple themselves. Some Macs are awesome, I am on a 2015 iMac 27" now and it makes me happy, but my 2016 MBP needs to go in for a faulty key (surprise!). I support over 2000 Macs at work, and I have a rough idea how laughable Apple's "small number of devices affected by [insert Quality Program defect here]" actually is. The Genius Bar does too. I have taken.. the entire Bar. My local Apple Store knows me. Oh, they know me.
 

DeaconFrost

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
11,140
Edit: Using hardware from 2001 as a comparison goes against your argument. nVidia has been using "GeForce" since 1999. Video cards still look like video cards. Computer towers still look like towers. VR hasn't replaced monitors. Pentium is still a thing and the i7 name is pretty old now.
Not one of those examples involve a UI. If you think towers look the same as they did back then, well, I'm not sure how to answer that one.
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
Not one of those examples involve a UI. If you think towers look the same as they did back then, well, I'm not sure how to answer that one.
I didn't bring up hardware and was pointing out that its a poor example. But since you mention it, stop cherry picking things to support an argument, its childish. Computers still look like computers and you know it. We aren't brain interfacing eachother or whatever. A tower computer with monitor would be immediately identifiable to the least tech savvy person not matter if its from 1996 or 2019.
 
Last edited:

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
In 2006 Apple started shipping their first Intel-based machines. This came a decade after switching to PowerPC, and six years after an entire OS reset. Gluing in the battery, butterfly keyboards, USB-C-o-rama.. If there's one thing you can absolutely not accuse Apple of, it's consistency. Apple is big because "It's a phone, it's an iPod, and it's an internet communicator." In 2007, Macs just became that other thing Apple sold, to consumers and to Apple themselves. Some Macs are awesome, I am on a 2015 iMac 27" now and it makes me happy, but my 2016 MBP needs to go in for a faulty key (surprise!). I support over 2000 Macs at work, and I have a rough idea how laughable Apple's "small number of devices affected by [insert Quality Program defect here]" actually is. The Genius Bar does too. I have taken.. the entire Bar. My local Apple Store knows me. Oh, they know me.
This whole thread has been about UI. Mac OS X hasn't changed much to its casual users since even Leopard. That was 12 years ago. It looks far more similar to itself over the last decade than Windows does. That is the consistency I was referring to.
 

DeaconFrost

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
11,140
I didn't bring up hardware and was pointing out that its a poor example. But since you mention it, stop cherry picking things to support an argument, its childish. Computers still look like computers and you know it. We aren't brain interfacing eachother or whatever. A tower computer with monitor would be immediately identifiable to the least tech savvy person not matter if its from 1996 or 2019.
Childish? That's how I would describe your incessant need to bend the debate around your points instead of stick with what's written. The whole thread has been about UI, then you bring up the hardware as you tell me you didn't bring up hardware. C'mon. Follow your own advice.
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
This whole thread has been about UI. Mac OS X hasn't changed much to its casual users since even Leopard. That was 12 years ago. It looks far more similar to itself over the last decade than Windows does. That is the consistency I was referring to.
The irony being that the current macOS won't even install on most Macs from a decade ago. The UI doesn't change because again, Apple also makes the hardware. That's why when Macs were translucent and colored plastic, OS X was translucent and colored. When they went minimal and grey and flat, OS X went minimal and grey and flat. A very colorful and shiny OS wouldn't look right on a Mac. macOS is for modern Retina displays, which is why Mojave looks rough on a 2012 MacBook Pro. Of course Apple has a solution to that, just come in to a local Apple Store and check out our 2019 lineup.

Microsoft isn't bound by any need to match their UI to anything hardware style-wise. There's no one OS that's going to look right on a ThinkPad P73 and one of those pink HP laptops. Microsoft just says "here's our OS" and the OEMs are left holding the bag on designing something for it, if they choose to. Which they clearly rarely do. To PC users though, most understand this isn't a marriage of OS and hardware. It's more like roommates.
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
Childish? That's how I would describe your incessant need to bend the debate around your points instead of stick with what's written. The whole thread has been about UI, then you bring up the hardware as you tell me you didn't bring up hardware. C'mon. Follow your own advice.
Capture.JPG


I'm done talking to you.
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
The irony being that the current macOS won't even install on most Macs from a decade ago. The UI doesn't change because again, Apple also makes the hardware. That's why when Macs were translucent and colored plastic, OS X was translucent and colored. When they went minimal and grey and flat, OS X went minimal and grey and flat. A very colorful and shiny OS wouldn't look right on a Mac. macOS is for modern Retina displays, which is why Mojave looks rough on a 2012 MacBook Pro. Of course Apple has a solution to that, just come in to a local Apple Store and check out our 2019 lineup.

Microsoft isn't bound by any need to match their UI to anything hardware style-wise. There's no one OS that's going to look right on a ThinkPad P73 and one of those pink HP laptops. Microsoft just says "here's our OS" and the OEMs are left holding the bag on designing something for it, if they choose to. Which they clearly rarely do. To PC users though, most understand this isn't a marriage of OS and hardware. It's more like roommates.
None of that doesn't change the fact that none of my Mac users even know what version of Mac OS they have. And they are old school art professors that have used Macs their entire careers. Yosemite? El Capitan? Mohave? High/Sierra? Its actually a mix of all of them but they have no idea. Because to them, its all the same. That is real consistency with a UI. Microsoft could have easily done the same and kept the very popular Windows 7 UI. But they reorganized and used a whole new design team for Windows 8. That team knew they made a stinker, because they had lots of negative feedback during in development. They rejected that feedback and made excuses. Then they had to eat crow when everyone demanded the return of the start menu. Now it seems Microsoft doesn't care anymore about Windows and its a mess. All about the cloud money now.
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
None of that doesn't change the fact that none of my Mac users even know what version of Mac OS they have. And they are old school art professors that have used Macs their entire careers. Yosemite? El Capitan? Mohave? High/Sierra? Its actually a mix of all of them but they have no idea. Because to them, its all the same.
This is more tied to Apple not actively selling the OS. macOS is designed around selling Macs. A Mac owner may not know their OS version, but they know they have an iMac. They definitely remember paying for it. In my Mac environment our users in 2016 didn't care about the OS, they only cared about it being "new". Nowadays they care about it "not having the touch thing." We're getting ready to mass-repair our 2015 15" models under the battery recall so we can prepare them for possible redistribution due to demand. Go figure.

Microsoft sells the OS and they sell other software, and so it's more "look at me, buy me." Still, you sound like you're in a majority-Mac environment. Mine is more mixed, and many of my Windows users can't immediately identify the Windows version they have. Even on their home machines, remote support can commonly involve running 'winver' because the person can't clearly articulate which OS they have. Whether they are art professors, hardware engineers, C-Suite members, or whatever, they aren't Information Technology, and it's not their job to know their OS. I'm sure there's more than one art professor out there who would consider you to be pretty odd because you don't know [thing all art professors know].
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
This is more tied to Apple not actively selling the OS. macOS is designed around selling Macs. A Mac owner may not know their OS version, but they know they have an iMac. They definitely remember paying for it. In my Mac environment our users in 2016 didn't care about the OS, they only cared about it being "new". Nowadays they care about it "not having the touch thing." We're getting ready to mass-repair our 2015 15" models under the battery recall so we can prepare them for possible redistribution due to demand. Go figure.

Microsoft sells the OS and they sell other software, and so it's more "look at me, buy me." Still, you sound like you're in a majority-Mac environment. Mine is more mixed, and many of my Windows users can't immediately identify the Windows version they have. Even on their home machines, remote support can commonly involve running 'winver' because the person can't clearly articulate which OS they have. Whether they are art professors, hardware engineers, C-Suite members, or whatever, they aren't Information Technology, and it's not their job to know their OS. I'm sure there's more than one art professor out there who would consider you to be pretty odd because you don't know [thing all art professors know].
We have over 1200 PCs, over 10x the amount of Macs.

But you seem to be going out of the scope of what my point is.

If I sit a PC user down in front of a Windows 7 PC, then at Windows 8, then again at Windows 10 there are completely lost if they aren't tech savvy people. They need help all the time going between them. Its quite the learning curve and even IT people are wondering where stuff went in Win 10 - 1903.
If I did the same to a Mac user, in front of El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra, then Mojave they wouldn't have any learning curve at all. The app store looks really different now I suppose, but I haven't needed to help anyone with it yet.

That sameness and consistency is something I think Microsoft can learn from and I suspect I am far from the only person that thinks that. Classic Shell / Startisback exists for a reason. That all I am saying.
 

odditory

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
5,868
I'm curious, is this something people have to do? My Start Menu has looked like this for since I got this work laptop and set it up ~2 years ago. I've installed and updated this thing many, many times and I've never touched this.

THIS is how FUD is spread and it needs to stop.

View attachment 183846
I'm sure you think a vague screenshot of a "work laptop" - one where you dont bother to specify which Windows 10 SKU (lemme guess, Enterprise) or whether it's a deployed image (again, lemme guess, yes) - means the eye rape that the majority SKUs - Home and Pro - have to deal with is "FUD". Removing tiles and apps and bloat and MS puts it right back in the next featureless update. Yes they've eased up on that in the last 6-12 months, but let's not pretend it's always been like that - they were hyper aggressive for years, enough to send people to start menu replacements and never look back.

Has happened to many times to me, so spare the "I never had a problem so why would anyone else" apologism.
 
Last edited:

criccio

Fully Equipped
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
12,645
I'm sure you think a vague screenshot of a "work laptop" - one where you dont bother to specify which Windows 10 SKU (lemme guess, Enterprise) or whether it's a deployed image (again, lemme guess, yes) - means the eye rape that the majority SKUs - Home and Pro - have to deal with is "FUD". Removing tiles and apps and bloat and MS puts it right back in the next featureless update. Yes they've eased up on that in the last 6-12 months, but let's not pretend it's always been like that - they were hyper aggressive for years, enough to send people to start menu replacements and never look back.

Has happened to many times to me, so spare the "I never had a problem so why would anyone else" apologism.
Listen guy, I have no idea what you're talking about. That laptop is a retail copy of 10 Pro and was not an image. My Win 10 Home desktop at home is in the same situation.

Multiple version updates and years later and the Start menu doest get touched unless I touch it.

I don't know what to tell you.
 

DeaconFrost

[H]ardForum Junkie
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
11,140
Multiple version updates and years later and the Start menu doest get touched unless I touch it.
I'm in the same boat. We've pushed Windows 10 out to all 225 client systems, and many have undergone version updates. I have some of the pre-installed junk apps show up when a new user logs in, but once cleared, or when removed initially, they don't come back.
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
If I sit a PC user down in front of a Windows 7 PC, then at Windows 8, then again at Windows 10 there are completely lost if they aren't tech savvy people. They need help all the time going between them. Its quite the learning curve and even IT people are wondering where stuff went in Win 10 - 1903.
I'm wondering across the extremely broad computer-using populace, just how confused a large percentage would actually be.

"Double-click a thing on the desktop to open or run it."

"That thing in the lower left pops up additional things you can run."

"Win-R opens the 'run' box"

"The time is in the lower right."

Which version of Windows am I describing?

There's differences between what an admin of 13000 computers does in a day, and what Soccer Mom Karen does in a day.

If I did the same to a Mac user, in front of El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra, then Mojave they wouldn't have any learning curve at all. The app store looks really different now I suppose, but I haven't needed to help anyone with it yet.
If we talk about the same user as above, sure, extremely consistent experience. If we pull back to that guy admining 12,000 Macs, well, I dunno.. Would you consider administration of 10.9 to be as consistent as experience in 10.14 as a home user considers their experience? In my time I watched deployments change, the end of monolithic imaging, the half-baked implementation of DEP and MDM, I watched SIP happen, and GateKeeper, and the end of Xserves and macOS Server (previously known as 'the best $20 any Mac admin could spend'). I watched the entire underlying structure of the OS change dramatically, and often unexpectedly, with various tools being retired and replaced with new, often undocumented ones, with automations being yanked out, APFS, FileVault, Apple IDs to login no wait I mean not Apple IDs to login.. This wasn't 20 years. Most of this was what.. five years?
 

VIC-20

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
986
I'm wondering across the extremely broad computer-using populace, just how confused a large percentage would actually be.
You obviously don't work with the general public. I have been doing front line IT sales, service and support full time since 1998.

Almost every user bitched about the UI in Win 8 and now 10.
 

B00nie

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,168
I would just get used to Windows 10's UI. It isn't that bad. Just expect everything you did in two steps to take three or four. (Not that this truth helps my argument.)
That's like saying just to get used to being in jail and having to bend over for the boys from the gang. Don't worry, you'll learn to get used to it!
 

B00nie

[H]ardness Supreme
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,168
I'm curious, is this something people have to do? My Start Menu has looked like this for since I got this work laptop and set it up ~2 years ago. I've installed and updated this thing many, many times and I've never touched this.

THIS is how FUD is spread and it needs to stop.

View attachment 183846
What do you mean? That's exactly the unusable horrible mess everyone is talking about. The fact that you have unpinned the stupid tiles does not improve anything.
 

Dan_D

[H]ard as it Gets
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
55,514
That's like saying just to get used to being in jail and having to bend over for the boys from the gang. Don't worry, you'll learn to get used to it!
No, it isn't. Look, if your just dealing with your personal system do what you want. However, if your like me and you work in the IT industry you have to deal with server 2016 and Windows 10 workstations that you have no control over. You might as well learn to navigate the crappy interface because you will have no choice but to deal with it. Changing my personal machine radically, doesn't make sense to me in light of the fact that I have to support machines for work as well as friends and family. I can't reconfigure every machine to my liking. So I figured my time would be best served learning how to use the OS even if I don't like its UI.

Several of the Windows 10 UI changes are crap. I won't disagree with that. But I also don't want to fumble around like an idiot for 20 minutes doing simple things because I can't function without some third party software UI.
 
Last edited:

criccio

Fully Equipped
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
12,645
What do you mean? That's exactly the unusable horrible mess everyone is talking about. The fact that you have unpinned the stupid tiles does not improve anything.
You're right, I dont use it. I hit the windows key, type a few letters and hit enter to launch things.

Clicking the start menu regardless of windows version seems like a colossal waste of time.
 

SuperSubZero

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 21, 2000
Messages
3,619
You obviously don't work with the general public. I have been doing front line IT sales, service and support full time since 1998.

Almost every user bitched about the UI in Win 8 and now 10.
They didn't in 1998.

People always complain about new things. You kids and your rap music.

I wasn't a huge fan of the full-screen start menu in Win8 myself, but I used Win8 from release through to Win8.1 and Win10. Through all of them, I don't remember being completely overwhelmed and unable to function. Double-clicking things ran them, clicking in the lower left (the extreme lower left in Win8) brought up more things I could run, Win-R brought up the Run box, the time was in the lower right. That was the way in 1998, and 1995, and it's still the way now.

There's a moment when it's bad and a moment when "I'm told to believe it's bad." The latter is amazingly easy to reach, unfortunately. Say it enough times loudly enough, and people believe it's true.
 

acquacow

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
424
The solution is to not be using a UI in windows 7 or windows 10. Just press the windows key and type whatever you want.

Search is the future, forget the UI.
 
Top