Cue sad trombone: HP Slate is official for... $799

Aurelius

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So the HP Slate 500 will cost $799...

Oops.

And that, my friends, is why Windows tablets are currently doomed to flounder. If you can't even price what amounts to a netbook without a keyboard at a price even vaguely close to an iPad or a Galaxy Tab, you're not even in the modern tablet game.

Before you ask: yes, I think there's a market for conventional tablet PCs. But I think they'll be just that: conventional convertible notebooks. And that category is not only pretty small (it actually shrank from 1.8 million to 1.5 million units between 2008 and 2009), but it's not where the industry is going as a whole.

Also, just to avoid hypocrisy, this post was composed on an iPad.
 

zamardii

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They're insane. The computer you could buy for $800 as opposed to this... this slate is worthless.
 

Peteman100

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They are targeting the "business market," hence the price gauging. Still pretty fail though.
 

heatlesssun

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Tomorrow? Hell fuck yes!!!!!! :D:D:D:D $800 for REAL tablet with a pen is a good folks. This this is going to sell well folks, you simply have no idea just how important an active pen is. The pen with OneNote will kick the living snot out of an iPad or Android for note taking. HP won't be able to take my money and ship this puppy fast enough!!!!
 

heatlesssun

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They are targeting the "business market," hence the price gauging. Still pretty fail though.

Let's see dual cameras, digital pen, HDMI dock, case, runs Windows apps without an app store for $800, that only $100 more than the 64GB iPad. No gouging at at all. Why do people look at the cheapest iPad and compare it to devices with more hardware and features and come up with this stuff?:confused:
 

Aurelius

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Let's see dual cameras, digital pen, HDMI dock, case, runs Windows apps without an app store for $800, that only $100 more than the 64GB iPad. No gouging at at all. Why do people look at the cheapest iPad and compare it to devices with more hardware and features and come up with this stuff?:confused:

Because it's a design poorly optimized for touch that gets half the battery life of an iPad and weighs just as much despite a smaller screen. It might be fair for what's inside, but it's not fair for the way most people want to use it.

Also, consider the role: a touch-only tablet is supposed to be a secondary or even tertiary device, and dropping a minimum of $800 is asking a lot when a $500 model will not only do but may actually make them happier. Yes, the Slate's targeted at enterprise, but that was after HP realized it wouldn't sell to the mainstream public. Remember the early teaser videos? They pitched it playing Flash video on a TV site, syncing a device in iTunes... this was supposed to be Microsoft's preemptive strike against the iPad, but even HP didn't see the value in targeting that audience after a certain point.
 

heatlesssun

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Also, consider the role: a touch-only tablet is supposed to be a secondary or even tertiary device, and dropping a minimum of $800 is asking a lot when a $500 model will not only do but may actually make them happier.

You do realize that this ISN'T a touch only device don't you? OneNote+active pen. If you've not used this technology you won't understand why people are excited about this thing and why it will sell VERY well. There's no other slate form factor device on the market under $1000 with an active pen, not any Android and not the iPad. There are plenty of people who will be just fine dropping $800 on this thing, no sweat. It's cheap for the feature set.

Also, this whole poorly optimized for touch is just a bit old to me. I do things on my W100, toally touch only that I could never do on an iPad, it's just getting used to it for the most part, but yes Windows 7 needs some touch improvements but more so more touch applications, Windows 7 itself works very well with touch with touch based apps.
 
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heatlesssun

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Yeah, there really is no substitute for a pen, the Apple faithful have drunk too much of Jobs' Kool-Aid and think that pens are some type of "failure" when it it comes to slate form factors. You simply can't do things with touch that are easy and fun with a pen and that seems to be the dividing line I'm seeing on the Engadget comments, already over 600 posts in less 4 hours.

Seems to be 50-50 between the lovers and the haters which actually should pretty encouraging to HP. The people that hate it complain about the price, battery life and Windows 7's multi-touch usability and the people that are loving it are saying Windows 7, real OS, and BTW did you notice that active pen that NO other device in this price range, which includes the iPad, for some reason the iPadders think that a 64GB iPad is $500.

OneNote+active pen, this device is going to make HP a few bucks.
 

Bahamut

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It's fail outta the gate (but you knew I'd say that). It's just fail, fail, fail, sad, sad, sad. Entirely too expensive for ~$200 worth of parts and a $45 OS (per cost from big tier OEM pricing).

Dammit.
 

heatlesssun

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It's fail outta the gate (but you knew I'd say that). It's just fail, fail, fail, sad, sad, sad. Entirely too expensive for ~$200 worth of parts and a $45 OS (per cost from big tier OEM pricing).

Dammit.

"A few" being the key words here.


So tell me, just how many sub $1000 TABLETS, you know slates with active pens are there? Zero, so no, if you use active pens and tools like OneNote or PS, this is actually a very good price. How much would you like to bet that this thing sells out at launch ends up eBaying for over a $1000?

Serp, you've been counted in the "I hate HP/Tablet PCs" months ago, no suprise.:)

I'm probably buying two, no suprise there either! :D
 
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Sly

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As of now, the only other competitor for this are the Taiwanese and Chinese Win7 slates (They use capacitive, but no active pen). Only way apple can compete with this is if they were to release an OSX tablet for under $800.00.

Of course, if they do that, they'd be cannibalizing their own iPad market.
 

heatlesssun

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The inking experience is what this device is ALL about and the price for an active digitizer is cheap, there's NOTHING like it for the price. Anyone who thinks this the is overpriced has never priced an active pen tablet before. In comparison the Motion J3500 STARTS at around $2300. The J3500 is a much nicer piece of hardware but at 4 times the price it should be. It does appear to be an N-trig not Wacom digitizer which might be an issue with pressure sensitive apps like Photoshop.

If inking works well on this HP will sell shitloads of these things. iPadders that have not used good active pens simply won't get it, it's VASTLY superior to inking with a capacitive stylus on a iPad like the multitouch interface on the iPad could be considered vastly superior to Windows 7. If inking isn't something you need or want then this isn't the device for you.
 
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silentcoercion

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The problem isn't that it's actually cheap for what it is. The problem is, what percentage of consumers know what onenote and active pen are, much less why they're important? Because if they don't, and don't know why those make the HP Slate a great deal... they're going to look and see "an Ipad is only $500" (yes, regardless of which model people buy; the base is what people think of first) or even "HP itself has the tm2t starting at only thirty dollars more, and it has a full keyboard and vastly more powerful specs," and then go "why the hell would I buy the HP Slate?"
 

heatlesssun

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The problem isn't that it's actually cheap for what it is. The problem is, what percentage of consumers know what onenote and active pen are, much less why they're important? Because if they don't, and don't know why those make the HP Slate a great deal... they're going to look and see "an Ipad is only $500" (yes, regardless of which model people buy; the base is what people think of first) or even "HP itself has the tm2t starting at only thirty dollars more, and it has a full keyboard and vastly more powerful specs," and then go "why the hell would I buy the HP Slate?"

But this device isn't targeted at consumers and there's plenty of people that understand active pens, they have been around for a long time and as big of a failure as some people say the Tablet PC is there are millions of Tablet PCs out there with pens, tons in the business world and none at this price.

As for the tm2 vs. the Slate. They are different devices meant for different purposes. The tm2 is clearly a more capable device overall but it's 3 times the weight of the Slate is and the Slate's forward facing camera makes it a great field device for documentation that insurance adjusters or appraisers do all the time plus its ability to run Windows apps.
 

lightp2

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Hi silentcoercion,

It appears HP means what it commits. As postulated earlier elsewhere, TM2 for normal productivity segment. This particular Slate for Enterprise market, so for the consumer market, that leave the only logical choice, we need to wait and check out upcoming WebOS 2.0 tablet product, probably next year.
 
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So for somebody who isn't "in the know", what can you do with OneNote and an active pen thats so amazing? Does it just allow you to "doodle" notes down or is there something more powerful?
 

heatlesssun

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Just ordered over the phone! $882.67 Estimated Ship Date: 11/12/2010


HP Slate 500 Tablet PC
(ENERGY STAR )
XT962UA#ABA
HP Slate 500 Tablet PC
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional 32 bit
ENERGY STAR® qualified, EPEAT® Gold
Intel Atom Z540 Processor (1.86 GHz, 512 KB L2 cache, 533 MHz FSB)
Intel System Controller Hub (SCH) US15W
8.9-inch diagonal WSVGA HP Touchscreen (1024 x 600 or 1024 x 768 for some applications)
VGA webcam (inward facing), 3MP camera (outward facing)
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 500
2GB DDR2 667MHz on board memory
64 GB Solid State Module (SSM)
Optical drive not included.
HP Slate Digital Pen
Integrated 802.11 b/g/n wireless LAN
HP Integrated Module with Bluetooth® Wireless Technology
HP 2-cell, 30 WHr polymer
Limited 1 year standard parts a nd labor warranty 1/1/0
HP Slate Folio, HP Slate Cradle Dock

The guy I talked to had just sold one right before I called. He said he saw them already, almost two months ago he said.
 

heatlesssun

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So for somebody who isn't "in the know", what can you do with OneNote and an active pen thats so amazing? Does it just allow you to "doodle" notes down or is there something more powerful?

It's the closest thing to digital pen and paper in existence. OneNote is just a fantastic app, it's like a digital notebook/free form database. The closet thing to it is Evernote but OneNote has better ink support. You can search ink as text or convert it to text. The handwritting recognition in Windows 7 is the best there is. I've got 8 years of note in OneNote, it's the most important app I use after a web browser.

But check around, I'm far from the only that loves OneNote, it's one of the best things Microsoft has ever done, hand to think of a more useful and practical application.
 

mjz_5

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people gotta stop drinking the APPLE koolaid.. this thing is only $100 more than the ipad and has USB, Full blown on, FLASH, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE WANT>.

i swear, the people on the internet like complaining too much!
 

silentcoercion

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Right, right, I'll absolutely agree it's great for business (which hopefully have their IT decisions made on the real merits (though from my personal experience... there's a lot of "oooh... shiny Mac..." that still goes on)). My point was, from a consumer perspective (and yes, I realize this isn't marketed at consumers, but it's going to be brought up in every discussion now, so it's relevent), well, there's a lot of reasons for the average consumer not to buy one.
 

W.Feather

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Active Digitizer and Onenote are great.. Got rid of most of my paper notes art paper in general by making everything in my OneNote Notebook..

This whole message was written with my digitizer on 2740P
 

Aurelius

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It's the closest thing to digital pen and paper in existence. OneNote is just a fantastic app, it's like a digital notebook/free form database. The closet thing to it is Evernote but OneNote has better ink support. You can search ink as text or convert it to text. The handwritting recognition in Windows 7 is the best there is. I've got 8 years of note in OneNote, it's the most important app I use after a web browser.

But check around, I'm far from the only that loves OneNote, it's one of the best things Microsoft has ever done, hand to think of a more useful and practical application.

And now we know why you've got such unrealistic expectations for the HP Slate's sales. :)

Like Bill Gates, you've got what's practically a fetish for pen computing. You're so attached to the idea, have lived with it so long, that you can no longer see why anyone wouldn't like it! Just as Gates kept trying to force stylus-based tablet PCs on the market at every CES keynote and wondered why it wasn't working, you're hoping that any day now iPad sales will just flatline and everyone will go get Eee PC T91MTs, Libretto W100s and Slates.

There's a good reason why the iPad has already sold several times the forecast for all Windows tablet PCs this year: most people don't care for OneNote or pens. They don't want to do handwritten notes for class or work, they aren't primarily artists, and they're not inventory takers or doctors. They want to browse the web, check e-mail, read, watch videos and play games. Not only do pens not help in those areas, they usually get in the way. You have to remember to take them out, and you can't do multi-input gestures.

The Slate is very appealing to a specific crowd -- what you need to understand is that your crowd is not the wider public by any stretch.
 

Aurelius

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people gotta stop drinking the APPLE koolaid.. this thing is only $100 more than the ipad and has USB, Full blown on, FLASH, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE WANT>.

i swear, the people on the internet like complaining too much!

It's $300 more, for a start... a base 16GB Wi-Fi iPad is $499. $699 gets you either a 64GB iPad or a 3G 16GB iPad (no 3G option on the Slate) and some spare change.
 

heatlesssun

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The Slate is very appealing to a specific crowd -- what you need to understand is that your crowd is not the wider public by any stretch.

I agree, but have you EVER used digtial ink or OneNote? There are a LOT of people that love these tools. I'm fully aware that it's niche but see that's the thing, this is a unique product and people that use this tech won't even really second guess $800, it's nothing for this feature set, assuming the pen is good.
 

heatlesssun

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It's $300 more, for a start... a base 16GB Wi-Fi iPad is $499. $699 gets you either a 64GB iPad or a 3G 16GB iPad (no 3G option on the Slate) and some spare change.

No dock and no case included with the iPad and one can use a USB dongle and use any 3G or 4G carrier for that matter. How exspensive one THINKS this device is all subjective, when you compare feature for feature the Slate and iPad COST THE SAME! That's objective and the price tags and feature sets don't lie. You get cheaper iPads buy reducing features. Hardly a bargin but sure if you don't need the storage then why pay for it.
 
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Honestly, this sounds bonerific.

Nothing says I can't:
- Read email
- Type notes
- Play games
- surf the web
- watch pr0n

but being able to scribble notes in a meeting with doodles and such as needed, that I can then upload to my computer, will save me from the frustration of having 079587092757 notepads. sounds pretty cool to me.
 

Harkov

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I think i'm going to order one next payday and retire my netbook with a touchscreen kit I installed.

From a consumer point of view there were two phrases that stuck in my head a while ago "Content Creation Device" and "Content Consumption Device".

This is a creation device and the ipad is a consumption device. It really is that simple. Instead of only being able to do based on what apps I have installed, I can install any windows program (referring to apps this and app store that on a real PC is a huge pet peeve of mine lol. Going to start calling steam an app store soon I guess.) Instead of being limited by what apps I can find and buy.. I can do anything in windows. VPN into my home network and stream movies, remote access, print to a network printer! edit an excel file, emulators, any browser I want to use, FTP, a real time packet sniffer! ... the list goes on.

IOS is great on my phone, I love it. Anything bigger than 5 inches and I want more substance.

This will be insanely useful at work too. Since my company is 100% field based I live within a Citrix environment. All I need a dumb terminal and a net connection and I can run anything I need to do. Sadly something I can't do on an ipad. Add to the fact it has a USB port for my Sprint card and the ability to throw any device and driver attached to it.

It's a win win for me. Just like the IPAD is a win for people who just want to surf the web, check email, and watch netflix. I'm all for more choices. I almost want to wait on this till even more windows 7 tablets come out just for more competition. Hell even more Andriod tablets even though they have the same limitations in my eyes as the Ipad. There are some nifty things you can do to windows to make it really touch friendly. It's not the same polish an Ipad has, but it's well worth the tradeoff in my eyes and it will only get better.

I wonder how ubuntu will be on this hmm :)
 

J4M3S0N79

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I think this device has a future but in a specific niche role. I don't expect a bunch of execs or normal business folk to have this at their sides, nor will it replace notebooks or desktops.

The reason HP decided to release this is because it will fit into the existing corp IT structure well as a device that can be locked down to run a specific application. I see this as being a good device that can be bought in bulk by companies and checked in and out of an IT dept as resources. Imagine if you are tasked with doing daily 'rounds' in a factory to take measurements or readings. No more clip board.....instead, that data is automatically uploaded to a database. From a medical perspective, being able to quickly pull up a digitized medical chart or as a designer, being able to quickly snap a photo and do preliminary mockups.

The most important thing is that it's being released. Which means, it will likely be refined..which is a good thing.

All indications point to the fact that MS will likely have a consumer UI coming out based on either MCE or Metro. In either case, it's more choice as consumers and if it doesn't fit the your needs...dont buy it.

Personally, it's clear this is NOT an ipad/android slate competitor because it's not being marketed as such. My personal feeling is that the HP slate was released to run existing corporation specific applications with access to the associated data without having to code for specific devices. Which is cool.
 

halcy

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I've been waiting for a decent slate for ages, but HP is not that.

My reasons:

1. Glossy screen is an utter fail for reading anything for longer durations. Yes, I could alleviate that with a new matte screen protector.

2. Screen resolution is way too low. 1366x768 should be the bare minimum. 1024x600 does not even support HD 720p video viewing, not to mention reading PDF/books/web pages on that is going to be quite cumbersom (scroll here, scroll there, zoom in, zoom out).

3. Battery life time is a fail. If they say 5 hrs, it really means 3.5hrs in normal use. A Slate has to perform 6+ hrs of real use to be a mobile workhorse and daily reader/note-taker.

So, while Slate 500 may be the god-send to some, I don't think it's quite there as far as being the universal reader/note-taker.

It just lacks too much.

Maybe later in 2011 or 2012, when the next Intel Oak Trail ships and new low-res colour display technologies become available.

So, the wait continues.
 

heatlesssun

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heatlesssun

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Looks like the 500 has a fanless design. That being the case we'll have to see how much of a problem heat will be but I wouldn't expect it to be with these components and it also means that 5 hours of battery might within reason as fans do suck up quite of bit of juice.
 

W.Feather

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with those components i can see why it is fanless :D

not a whole lot of power (looks at the i7 mobile where the fan is on pretty much 90% of the time)
 

griffinhart

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This preview is VERY positive about the device: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1712&review=HP+slate+500+tablet+pc+windows+7

I guess we'll see shortly if this is generally how the device is received in the review and real world or not. When the author of this preview said that his short experience with inking was "superb" I definitely was happy as inking will be one of the primary activities I plan to do on my Slate.

I read the preview. So far it looks promising. I ordered one last week and am looking forward to playing around with it. Inking is the primary reason I want one. Something I can use for an extremely portable OneNote machine. Everything else it can do is just gravy.
 
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