Cubey has screwed the pooch. Need some suggestions

Deadjasper

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Long story short. Running Mint 19.2. Hasn't been fired up in a while. Went to update the updater so I could update the system and got an error message saying I had broken dependencies. Fixed broken dependencies and that's the last I saw of Mint. :confused:

No great loss, nothing of importance was on it. Started to install the latest version of Mint then thought I'd ask here about other distros I might want to look at. I'm no Linux guru by any stretch of the imagination (everyone should know this o_O) so easy of use / user friendly is of paramount importance.

TIA :)
 

Vermillion

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Anything Ubuntu based will be more than fine. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Budgie, etc, etc, etc. KDE Neon. Peppermint. Pop_OS! Elementary. You can't really go wrong.

Just pick one and move on or go for the gusto and go Arch. ;)

arch-fly-bitch.jpg
 

IdiotInCharge

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Long story short. Running Mint 19.2. Hasn't been fired up in a while. Went to update the updater so I could update the system and got an error message saying I had broken dependencies. Fixed broken dependencies and that's the last I saw of Mint. :confused:

No great loss, nothing of importance was on it. Started to install the latest version of Mint then thought I'd ask here about other distros I might want to look at. I'm no Linux guru by any stretch of the imagination (everyone should know this o_O) so easy of use / user friendly is of paramount importance.

TIA :)
If this didn't happen, like, nearly every time I try to run a Linux desktop OS seriously...
 

Nobu

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At least you didn't do like me and install gentoo, then break it before you even get to a desktop. lol

I'd say Arch, but it can also leave you in hot water if you don't update often. Great distro for learning all the ins and outs of the base config, though, and the package manager is simple enough, just works most of the time.

Mint Debian, the stable version, or kubuntu would be my next choice. I always manage to break fedora and suse.
 

Mazzspeed

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I think Linux mostly gets its rep from not degrading so long as relatively 'simple' applications are run on it or the system itself is kept very simple.

The moment you try to do 'all the things' and then try to keep that updated, it starts falling apart.

Wow. That's generally my experience with Windows. I update my Linux install all the time and have added a number of PPA's and the only issue I've experienced was the Grub2 bootloader security update issue - Which was easily fixed.

However, Timeshift does exist for a reason and if you do have a problem, backing up and restoring Linux is so efficient due to the fact there's no registry you can be back up and running in 15 mins. Nothing, absolutely nothing is as bad as the Windows updating process in the real world far away from tightly controlled corporate networks.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Wow. That's generally my experience with Windows. I update my Linux install all the time and have added a number of PPA's and the only issue I've experienced was the Grub2 bootloader security update issue - Which was easily fixed.

However, Timeshift does exist for a reason and if you do have a problem, backing up and restoring Linux is so efficient due to the fact there's no registry you can be back up and running in 15 mins. Nothing, absolutely nothing is as bad as the Windows updating process in the real world far away from tightly controlled corporate networks.
Windows I can fix or actually get 'up and running' in 15 minutes. Even if I have to wipe the drive, which I haven't had to do in quite some time, and primarily have only done to 'refresh' a system because of all of the crap that I've installed that may not have uninstalled well and other configuration changes that have gone through changes and so on.

Linux?

Well, Linux just breaks. Usually hard, at which point I realize that nuking it to get back to a running system is simply so much faster than even beginning to try and fix it. I'm simply not a Linux Surgeon, and you pretty much need to be to deal with the messes that can occur, and you need that knowledge and experience for every distro family and sub-family you touch to keep stuff running.

Now, I'll add separately that I run a number of Linux servers at home. This I have no problem with, but generally speaking these get configured and then left the hell alone, which is decidedly not how I use a desktop operating system.
 

Mazzspeed

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Windows I can fix or actually get 'up and running' in 15 minutes. Even if I have to wipe the drive, which I haven't had to do in quite some time, and primarily have only done to 'refresh' a system because of all of the crap that I've installed that may not have uninstalled well and other configuration changes that have gone through changes and so on.

Linux?

Well, Linux just breaks. Usually hard, at which point I realize that nuking it to get back to a running system is simply so much faster than even beginning to try and fix it. I'm simply not a Linux Surgeon, and you pretty much need to be to deal with the messes that can occur, and you need that knowledge and experience for every distro family and sub-family you touch to keep stuff running.

Now, I'll add separately that I run a number of Linux servers at home. This I have no problem with, but generally speaking these get configured and then left the hell alone, which is decidedly not how I use a desktop operating system.

Linux does not just 'break' and you cannot reimage a full Windows system complete with all personalized settings and installed applications from a backup in 15 mins or less.

I'm sorry, I don't follow vendor worship and this is obvious vendor worship. You may run a number of Linux servers, but if you can't keep a desktop running and constantly experience update failures, than either you have a problem or you need to switch to another distro. Probably the worst distro I've ever used in terms of reliability is Mint.
 

cjcox

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Ah, the inexperienced. Linux doesn't just "break". Been running linux since 1994. Not broken.

Not saying there aren't inexperienced people building bad distros...

Fulltime.... I don't run Windows.
 

Vermillion

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Ah, the inexperienced. Linux doesn't just "break". Been running linux since 1994. Not broken.

Not saying there aren't inexperienced people building bad distros...

Fulltime.... I don't run Windows.

I've had Arch systems on drives that didn't boot for 6 months. Upgraded with zero problems. All this FUD about how Linux "breaks" is bullshit. What breaks is Windows. Took my work laptop (2019 XPS15) 3 times to install that piece of shit 2004 build because it would simply randomly fail it's install.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Linux does not just 'break'
Do an apt/yum/etc update, reboot... you didn't need that kernel, did you?

Yeah. That's breaking. And I'm not going to look up how to recover from that on my phone, because that's likely not all that's broken that keeps one from booting the system and using it again.

Then there's the endless cross-distro issues I have with a laptop that involve sound just... deciding to stop playing. Never found a resoluion to that one, and I was able to repeat it several times in an afternoon.

you cannot reimage a full Windows system complete with all personalized settings and installed applications from a backup in 15 mins or less

All applications? That's going to depend on the user, but with a newly built USB installer, 'up and running' just isn't that hard. Windows installs quite quickly, something Linux distros seem to have gotten much worse at over the years. I log in and all of my stuff gets ported over. However much detractors like to vilify Microsoft, they've been working on user portability for some time.

I'm sorry, I don't follow vendor worship and this is obvious vendor worship.
I could say the same about your response, especially since I'm sharing personal experience here. I might even have a stronger claim, as I regularly use both in enterprise and personal environments and get a pretty good feel for where their strengths and weaknesses lie.
I've had Arch systems on drives that didn't boot for 6 months. Upgraded with zero problems. All this FUD about how Linux "breaks" is bullshit.
I've never had the patience to get an Arch system up and running. Honestly, I don't have the time to learn how to be a distro engineer. But other distros, including the Arch-based Manjaro? Auto-broken. More than once per, even. I've stopped trying to dual-boot on my desktop.
Took my work laptop (2019 XPS15) 3 times to install that piece of shit 2004 build because it would simply randomly fail it's install.
Honestly this is more on Dell. I had the same thing with an older XPS13, failing to update 2004, which I attributed to the laptop being sorely out of date as it was used by a family member with limited internet connectivity for years. I was also able to fix it by running the update from another user account. The other six systems I've updated to 2004 have been drama free.
 

Vermillion

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Honestly this is more on Dell. I had the same thing with an older XPS13, failing to update 2004, which I attributed to the laptop being sorely out of date as it was used by a family member with limited internet connectivity for years. I was also able to fix it by running the update from another user account. The other six systems I've updated to 2004 have been drama free.

Oh yes...let's the pass the buck onto Dell even though Windows 10 has been a piece of shit since the beginning. Let's just look at their issues in the last few months: breaking printers, breaking Internet connectivity, breaking Fresh Start, breaking OneDrive and Outlook. The list goes on from there.
 

Deadjasper

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Linux isn't perfect but it doesn't suck like Windows does. If you run Windows Microsoft owns you and you have very few choices. Linux is all about choices. I can reload as often as I like without having to worry about exceeding you activation quota. I don't have to worry about MS snooping around inside my computer without me knowing. etc. etc. Anyone who runs Windows is a tool and a fool.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Oh yes...let's the pass the buck onto Dell even though Windows 10 has been a piece of shit since the beginning.
Given that that hasn't at all been my experience, yeah, I'll happily pass some blame to Dell. Especially for laptop stuff where vendors do wacky things with drivers and configurations and so on.
The list goes on from there.
My inbox gets notifications daily about what's broken on Linux from a security perspective. And Windows. And everything else.

I don't really give either OS a pass, but in general, Windows installations seem to last far longer for typical consumer desktop use. That's an observation. For servers, Linux seems to last forever, but to me that seems to be due to not trying to do too many different things at once.
 

jardows

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Eventually something is going to break. Do you want to wipe your system and re-install every time it does? I suggest then using a distro, like Arch, that will force you to learn some inner workings so that you can handle things when they break. Of course this advise is coming from someone using FreeBSD-CURRENT on a laptop computer, so take it for what it's worth. There has been pain and a learning curve, but I know much more about the inner workings of my OS now, and can fix things I previously couldn't with "spoon-feed" OS's.
 

IdiotInCharge

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There has been pain and a learning curve, but I know much more about the inner workings of my OS now, and can fix things I previously couldn't with "spoon-feed" OS's.
Arch is on the list; I did do a trial run in a VM once, but man, it's a pain to have to crawl through all the stuff that OS installers just 'do'. It's also not really used anywhere except as a learning tool and a badge of honor; and I have no idea whether it'd have the same issues over time if say you attempted to game on it and do content creation and so on.
 

Nobu

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Arch is on the list; I did do a trial run in a VM once, but man, it's a pain to have to crawl through all the stuff that OS installers just 'do'. It's also not really used anywhere except as a learning tool and a badge of honor; and I have no idea whether it'd have the same issues over time if say you attempted to game on it and do content creation and so on.
Nice thing about arch, is once you learn how to install it, you also know how to fix it without wiping all your configuration (you just chroot in and do what you need, just like on install). Bootloader misconfigured? Boot the livecd, mount, (chroot,) and fix. (Wrong) version of x or y package for whatever reason causing a broken system? Chroot and pacman -Syu (update database and upgrade packages). Failing drive? Mount and/or copy to good drive.

If you need help, just about everything is covered on the arch wiki, too.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Nice thing about arch, is once you learn how to install it, you also know how to fix it without wiping all your configuration (you just chroot in and do what you need, just like on install). Bootloader misconfigured? Boot the livecd, mount, (chroot,) and fix. (Wrong) version of x or y package for whatever reason causing a broken system? Chroot and pacman -Syu (update database and upgrade packages). Failing drive? Mount and/or copy to good drive.

If you need help, just about everything is covered on the arch wiki, too.
That's more or less the impression I got.

The bigger challenge to me was that the same knowledge would need to be reapplied to other distros with different basic organization. Need to be able to do the same with RHEL and Ubuntu, along with their many derivatives, let alone all the cloud stuff, you know?
 

Deadjasper

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One obstacle to learning any distro is the massive amount of obsolete info on the web. Most of it is totally useless and a big waste of time. I suspect this alone keeps a lot of people from getting more interested in Linux. A lots of this obsolete info does not bother to mention what version, and some even what distro, it applies to. I don't really understand why all this useless garbage is out there but it is.
 

IdiotInCharge

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One obstacle to learning any distro is the massive amount of obsolete info on the web. Most of it is totally useless and a big waste of time. I suspect this alone keeps a lot of people from getting more interested in Linux. A lots of this obsolete info does not bother to mention what version, and some even what distro, it applies to. I don't really understand why all this useless garbage is out there but it is.
Well, there's that, and then there's the moving target of Wine vs. game updates, particularly for online-focused or online-only stuff. By the time you've got it working, or near enough so, something else changes. And generally trying to keep up with all that is what breaks the camels back when it comes to keeping a Linux install running.

The amount of work and compromises needed to do most of what I just do on Windows really turns me off when it comes to dailying Linux on my desktop. There's plenty of stuff that I can do, and plenty of stuff that may even be easier to do, but honostly I don't feel comfortable doing the full jump.

And surprisingly, Microsoft is doing a pretty good job patching up the differences. Stuff like the new Terminal, updates to Powershell, a package manager (Winget), and WSL really take a lot out of what Linux is and does 'different' out of the equation. Honestly, if they get their terminal and shell stuff polished, and get WSL hardware acceleration and GUIs working well, the utility of desktop Linux may well go out the door altogether.
 

Nobu

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Well, there's that, and then there's the moving target of Wine vs. game updates, particularly for online-focused or online-only stuff. By the time you've got it working, or near enough so, something else changes. And generally trying to keep up with all that is what breaks the camels back when it comes to keeping a Linux install running.

The amount of work and compromises needed to do most of what I just do on Windows really turns me off when it comes to dailying Linux on my desktop. There's plenty of stuff that I can do, and plenty of stuff that may even be easier to do, but honostly I don't feel comfortable doing the full jump.

And surprisingly, Microsoft is doing a pretty good job patching up the differences. Stuff like the new Terminal, updates to Powershell, a package manager (Winget), and WSL really take a lot out of what Linux is and does 'different' out of the equation. Honestly, if they get their terminal and shell stuff polished, and get WSL hardware acceleration and GUIs working well, the utility of desktop Linux may well go out the door altogether.
I would appreciate a Windows OS with some Linux programs/userspace, built ontop of a windows kernel with a (optional?) linux compat layer (kernel+wayland)...as long as they kept it simple and didn't hide everything behind a tablet shell.
 

cjcox

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I would appreciate a Windows OS with some Linux programs/userspace, built ontop of a windows kernel with a (optional?) linux compat layer (kernel+wayland)...as long as they kept it simple and didn't hide everything behind a tablet shell.

Uh, WSL?
 

/dev/null

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Long story short. Running Mint 19.2. Hasn't been fired up in a while. Went to update the updater so I could update the system and got an error message saying I had broken dependencies. Fixed broken dependencies and that's the last I saw of Mint. :confused:

No great loss, nothing of importance was on it. Started to install the latest version of Mint then thought I'd ask here about other distros I might want to look at. I'm no Linux guru by any stretch of the imagination (everyone should know this o_O) so easy of use / user friendly is of paramount importance.

TIA :)
What does "last you saw" mean? The machine doesn't power on anymore?
 

Deadjasper

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What does "last you saw" mean? The machine doesn't power on anymore?

Yep, it powers on just fine. Nothing wrong with Cubey. Linux boots to the login screen then when I go to log in it complains about Cinnamon.Session (or something like that) missing. I went to update the system and it complained about broken dependencies. I fixed that and that's where it started.
 

Mazzspeed

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Do an apt/yum/etc update, reboot... you didn't need that kernel, did you?

Yeah. That's breaking. And I'm not going to look up how to recover from that on my phone, because that's likely not all that's broken that keeps one from booting the system and using it again.

Then there's the endless cross-distro issues I have with a laptop that involve sound just... deciding to stop playing. Never found a resoluion to that one, and I was able to repeat it several times in an afternoon.



All applications? That's going to depend on the user, but with a newly built USB installer, 'up and running' just isn't that hard. Windows installs quite quickly, something Linux distros seem to have gotten much worse at over the years. I log in and all of my stuff gets ported over. However much detractors like to vilify Microsoft, they've been working on user portability for some time.


I could say the same about your response, especially since I'm sharing personal experience here. I might even have a stronger claim, as I regularly use both in enterprise and personal environments and get a pretty good feel for where their strengths and weaknesses lie.

I've never had the patience to get an Arch system up and running. Honestly, I don't have the time to learn how to be a distro engineer. But other distros, including the Arch-based Manjaro? Auto-broken. More than once per, even. I've stopped trying to dual-boot on my desktop.

Honestly this is more on Dell. I had the same thing with an older XPS13, failing to update 2004, which I attributed to the laptop being sorely out of date as it was used by a family member with limited internet connectivity for years. I was also able to fix it by running the update from another user account. The other six systems I've updated to 2004 have been drama free.

This is all just punching smoke, I'm not worshiping a vendor as there is no vendor as Linux is free.

Millions of people use Linux desktops every day, from average users through to scientists and SFX creators and they seem to have no problems with updates or installing software. I game under Linux and I have absolutely no issues with changes - In all honesty everything just works.

I switched from Windows when Windows 10 was released and I have had absoultely no problem adapting Linux to my needs whatsoever, it sounds to me like you expect Linux to be a drop in Windows replacement (what you equate with user friendly) - Something Linux is not and definitely should not be. As far as sound issues are concerned, there are people complaining of sound issues under Windows in these very forums, driver issues are definitely not limited to any one operating system.

You have to consider that if you'd used Linux all your life and were trying to switch to the Windows desktop for the first time, you would be stating Windows is not user friendly. Familiarity does not equal great and there's a reason Microsoft is on school PC's and offered to students at a discount.

Outside tightly controlled corperate networks and in the hands of Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa types: Windows and it's updating process is an unreliable mess - Rectifying such problems makes me a living. My last Linux install lasted four years until I switched distros due to changes I didn't agree with as a result of over the top Gnome developers, not a single problem in the world.

I suggest you start using Timeshift, and switch from Mint.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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as there is no vendor
There are plenty of vendors, many of whom contribute significantly to Linux.

Millions of people use Linux desktops every day,
Unless you're talking Chromebooks, that seems far-fetched. But those aren't GNU/Linux.
scientists and SFX creators
We use them at work too. But they're version-controlled, not updating with PPAs/repositories, and they are definitely locked down.
I game under Linux and I have absolutely no issues with changes - In all honesty everything just works.
And I play different games, and they broke all the time.
In all honesty everything just works.
I'm still waiting for that Linux experience... decades on, that's pretty much never, unless you stick to the base OS and included software.
I switched from Windows when Windows 10 was released and I have had absoultely no problem adapting Linux to my needs whatsoever
That won't happen for me until Windows runs on the Linux kernel...
it sounds to me like you expect Linux to be a drop in Windows replacement (what you equate with user friendly)
It sounds to you like I'm 'vendor worshipping', and you're wrong there, so.
As far as sound issues are concerned, there are people complaining of sound issues under Windows in these very forums
That's a nice deflection!
Windows and it's updating process is an unreliable mess
This is my experience with Linux, Windows being much the opposite.
and switch from Mint.
Since I've never run Mint, it's clear that your assumptions do well to undermine your point of view.
 

Mazzspeed

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There are plenty of vendors, many of whom contribute significantly to Linux.


Unless you're talking Chromebooks, that seems far-fetched. But those aren't GNU/Linux.

We use them at work too. But they're version-controlled, not updating with PPAs/repositories, and they are definitely locked down.

And I play different games, and they broke all the time.

I'm still waiting for that Linux experience... decades on, that's pretty much never, unless you stick to the base OS and included software.

That won't happen for me until Windows runs on the Linux kernel...

It sounds to you like I'm 'vendor worshipping', and you're wrong there, so.

That's a nice deflection!

This is my experience with Linux, Windows being much the opposite.

Since I've never run Mint, it's clear that your assumptions do well to undermine your point of view.

We're entering silly territory now, I haven't even read all that. Use whatever you want, just realize that your claim of Linux 'breaking' is largely unfounded not to mention ironic considering the numerous issues with the Windows 10 updater.
 

Vermillion

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It's not fact, it's outrageous hyperbole. When is my desktop going to break?

Probably about the same time my Arch installs break. I've been using Arch for my desktops/laptops for years. I have NEVER had one break. Wish I could say the same about Windows.
 

travm

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Linux does not just 'break' and you cannot reimage a full Windows system complete with all personalized settings and installed applications from a backup in 15 mins or less.

I'm sorry, I don't follow vendor worship and this is obvious vendor worship. You may run a number of Linux servers, but if you can't keep a desktop running and constantly experience update failures, than either you have a problem or you need to switch to another distro. Probably the worst distro I've ever used in terms of reliability is Mint.
I disagree. I've run many linux desktops, and in fact have 2 up in my house right now. They are fun, and free. Thats it. They break, almost at random. Updates break things, trying to install software, breaks things. Sound is a nightmare (with onboard chipsets! not even talking about trying to get/keep a gaming card working).
Linux desktops are fun and useful (also free), an opportunity to learn more about operating systems (they require you actually dig into the nuts and bolts regularly). But in my experience they dont work nearly as well as you're letting on.
 

IdiotInCharge

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It's not fact, it's outrageous hyperbole.
Color outside the lines for a particular distro and expect problems to come out of left field. If you know the lines for the particular distro or you know the problems and can plan around them, great; but Linux isn't as simple as install OS --> update --> load your apps --> it runs forever.

If that were the case we'd all be running Linux desktops and Microsoft would have stopped developing Windows a decade ago.

Hint: that's not the case.
 

Deadjasper

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Linux doesn't break anywhere near enough to send me back to Windows. When it does break I see it as an opportunity to upgrade or try another distro / desktop.
 

FSCDiablo

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MANY people use Windows desktops for years without problems.
SOME people have lots of problems with Windows desktops.
MANY people use Linux desktops for years without problems.
SOME people have lots of problems with Linux desktops.

Pick whatever suits you. On balance of pluses and minuses, I prefer Linux. I had Win 10 running perfectly fine 24/7 for a couple years before I switched back to Linux. I even kept it dual boot for a time, but later completely removed Win 10. I prefer the freedom and control of Linux and it can have it's challenges but I usually consider them fun and enlightening when they happen. I also have a Win 7 VM for fun and I keep a couple seldom used old programs on it I don't want to bother setting up in Wine even though I could.

Win 8/10 kludged together a unified environment that I ended up not liking on desktop or console. It was ok on mobile (wife still uses her Win mobile phone lol), but their mobile is defunct now anyway.

Back to the OP. Give Manjaro a whirl for a user friendly Arch based distro, or Ubuntu/KDE Neon for a use friendly Debian experience. I haven't tried SUSE, Fedora, or any others lately to recommend.
 
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