Cryptocurrency's Big Winner & Big Loser

FrgMstr

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When it comes to cryptocurrency, the big winner for the year is Bitmain Technologies. In this story about it looking to take the company public, it is disclosed that Bitmain produced $1.2 billion in net profit for 2017. It is also spelled out that Bitmain pulled in $1.1 billion in net profit in Q118. Given that crypto has been cooling off, who knows where Bitmain will end up this year. On the big loser side of cryptocurrency is Michael Terpin. Mike is pissed since he says he got ripped off for $24 million. Terpin is suggesting that he was hacked through his smartphone, and is now suing AT&T for fraud and gross negligence in the amount of $224M. Maybe not putting information on your smartphone that could allow anyone access to your millions of dollars would be a good place to start. But isn't "no banks" part of crypto's call? Fun stuff.


In a 69-page complaint filed with the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, Terpin alleged that on January 7, 2018, the tokens were stolen from him through what he alleged was a “digital identity theft” of his cellphone account. In the complaint, he said AT&T was his service provider.
 

BSmith

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I hope I am on topic here when I say,.....What an idiot! Hehe....
 

ChoGGi

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I take it he's never heard of social engineering, then again maybe it'll make telecom helpdeskers less likely to happily accept whatever they're told over the phone (hah).
Edit: Yes I read the article about a sim swap, but I think my point still stands :)
 

Spartacus

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Dude.... cell phones are not meant to be bank vaults.
Don't keep that data on a cell phone ya knuckle-head!

Besides, it's not AT&T's fault that somebody else committed a crime.

I'm guessing the lawsuit will be dismissed. It should be.

.
 

prne10

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So Mike wants to sue AT&T for his own mistake so he can receive physical cash for his lost virtual coin ... am I understanding this correctly?
It isn't reasonable for consumers to have expert knowledge of all of the exploits for cell phones. The question is whether the techniques used to steal his identity could have reasonably been addressed or prevented by AT&T. It sounds like AT&T probably could have safeguarded his account better. Of course, ATT is going to counter that even if they were negligent, those damages are a result of him leaving such valuable access on his phone account. According to the news site:

The complaint claimed that the theft of the tokens occurred through what is called a SIM swap fraud. SIM stands for subscriber identification module, and SIM cards are used to authenticate subscribers on mobile phones.

SIM swapping consists of tricking a provider into transferring a subscriber’s phone number to a SIM card controlled by someone else. Once that person gets the phone number, it can be used to reset the subscriber’s passwords and access online accounts.
I think the case has some traction. Should be interesting to see where it goes.
 

_l_

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I'm guessing the lawsuit will be dismissed. It should be.
'should be' seems to be no longer applicable in America today. We are known worldwide for two things in particular: arrogance and excessive law suites.
 

BSmith

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It isn't reasonable for consumers to have expert knowledge of all of the exploits for cell phones. The question is whether the techniques used to steal his identity could have reasonably been addressed or prevented by AT&T. It sounds like AT&T probably could have safeguarded his account better. Of course, ATT is going to counter that even if they were negligent, those damages are a result of him leaving such valuable access on his phone account. According to the news site:



I think the case has some traction. Should be interesting to see where it goes.
You are probably right. After all, a lady did spill coffee on herself and won a nice settlement. I keep forgetting personal responsibility is not a factor in a civil suit. Or it seems to be that way.
 
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Nebell

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Honestly pretty much everyone who hoarded crypto - any crypto, before summer 2017 is a big winner.
Even if they sell today instead of all time high when everything was 20 times higher, they would still earn a good amount of money.
Some people got dirty rich on crypto. Bears are pushing the price lower and lower and lower. They want another round of insane gains. But maybe that train has already left.
 

BSmith

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As to Bitmain's success. It warms my heart to know someone put the screws to the cryptocrazies and made a ton of cash off of them.
 

BSmith

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Your tone and context indicate the lawsuit was somehow spurious. It wasn't. McDonalds was 100% in the wrong.
You see it one way, I see it another. Makes the world go round. I can live with that. Let's not take this off-topic any more than we have.
 

Archaea

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First, he had 24 million in Crypto and used a phone to access it? Even, drugged out McAfee’s been publically evangelizing his warnings against doing that for years!!!! Use a hardware wallet, or paper wallet!!! Don't use or keep your private keys, or access your crypto from your phone. Mobile phone security is still pretty much in infant stage at this time.

Second, this is a Frivolous lawsuit.

Is AT&T grossly negligent? Did this hack affect all AT&T phones because of their gross negligence as a Cell Service Provider? Did AT&T sit idle against a significant and known attack vector. Is the particular Crypto app, or even the app that compromised the crypto app something AT&T installed on the mobile phone?

No, of course not!

So....

Frivolous lawsuit, and I hope they pin the plaintiff with the legal fees that AT&T accrues in defending their case...




Finally, there are many articles and discussions on Reddit suggesting Bitmain is NOT in a good way financially right now.
They are sitting on perhaps 800 million dollars of 'currently undesirable' ASIC invetory. Their sale prices have gone from ~$3K per unit in Q1 to ~<$500 per unit currently, and still they are not selling. They’ve only reported Q1 profits as they plan to IPO because Q2 and now Q3 numbers look so much worse.

They bet the farm in BCH (BitCoin Cash), and kept a lot of their income/assets as BCH, and BCH has tanked since Q1. They are also fighting regulation and Chinese government intervention - which has them moving significant portions of their business out of China. (even a branch of their mining business to the US) They aren't down and out - but they certainly aren't the 800lb Gorilla they were in Q1.

upload_2018-8-15_16-22-30.png
 
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Wolf_Tech

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Or get a better cell phone like a blackberry still unhackable at least the non andriod ones.
 

emphy

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You are probably right. After all, a lady did spill coffee on herself and won a nice settlement. I keep forgetting personal responsibility is not a factor in a civil suit. Or it seems to be that way.
In the suit the lady in question was determined to be 20% at fault (she was actually quite careful, having the car parked before trying to add cream and sugar), whilst the chain was 80% at fault for serving the coffee at such a high temperature without adequate warning, despite their own research pointing out that most people start drinking the coffee immediately after buying. Third degree burns are no joke and, given the state of US healthcare, that 'nice' settlement probably barely covered the medical expenses.

Back on topic: it doesn't say in the article, but I suspect, from the description of his situation, that Terpin was using an online wallet with 2fa with sms - in that case AT&T can easily point to that service since it is, by now, well-known that sms is not secure.
 
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MavericK

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Actually if you read the Wikipedia article you linked, McDonald's was 80% in the wrong ;)
Lol...alright, fine. But it's kinda like saying I was 20% in the wrong when I spilled a bottle of water on myself, but it turned out to be acid.
 

prne10

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In the suit the lady in question was determined to be 20% at fault (she was actually quite careful, having the car parked before trying to add cream and sugar), whilst the chain was 80% at fault for serving the coffee at such a high temperature without adequate warning, despite their own research pointing out that most people start drinking the coffee immediately after buying. Third degree burns are no joke and, given the state of US healthcare, that 'nice' settlement probably barely covered the medical expenses.

Back on topic: it doesn't say in the article, but I suspect, from the description of his situation, that Terpin was using an online wallet with 2fa with sms - in that case AT&T can easily point to that service since it is, by now, well-known that sms is not secure.
I would bet that most people don't even know what 2fa is, let alone that it is not secure. Then you figure companies like AT&T are still offering it giving the illusion of security.
 

griff30

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I'd put the guy on suicide watch along with anyone else vested in cyptocurrency right now.
 

MV75

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Why can a bit coin not just be worth a bit coin? Isn't that the whole point to not have a petro dollar anymore? But no, they compare it directly to the dollar and want to exchange what is essentially worthless, bitcoin, for it, and when they do that is the point they declare themselves rich, not while they had the bit coins. The whole crypto currency thing is such a scam.
 

Archaea

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Why can a bit coin not just be worth a bit coin? Isn't that the whole point to not have a petro dollar anymore? But no, they compare it directly to the dollar and want to exchange what is essentially worthless, bitcoin, for it, and when they do that is the point they declare themselves rich, not while they had the bit coins. The whole crypto currency thing is such a scam.
Your post is a sham
Every alternate currency is compared to the accepted currency to establish value.

Today, here in the States (and to some degree still worldwide) using a US Dollars figure to estimate the the value of things is typical. But absent US dollars those same things still have for value.

Gold, Food, Labor, Land, Ships, Livestock, whatever can all be currency - yet everything can be related to the US dollar or whatever currency is the accepted mainstream currency at that time.

That is until the alternate currency overtakes the previously established currency as the most recognized, or commonly used/trusted form. Then those other things would commonly be compared to the new established most commonly used currency.
 

MV75

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Your post is a sham
Every alternate currency is compared to the accepted currency to establish value.

Today, here in the States (and to some degree still worldwide) using a US Dollars figure to estimate the the value of things is typical. But absent US dollars those same things still have for value.

Gold, Food, Labor, Land, Ships, Livestock, whatever can all be currency - yet everything can be related to the US dollar or whatever currency is the accepted mainstream currency at that time.

That is until the alternate currency overtakes the previously established currency as the most recognized, or commonly used/trusted form. Then those other things would commonly be compared to the new established most commonly used currency.
All those things you listed have a real trade value because they are either a physical thing that pre-dated the dollar, (which itself is only of value because of gold and oil), or a service or something that keeps you alive. What can you do with crypto when there is a use for those other things as a "currency", eg; when there is no power? All you can do is pray that your "wallet" doesn't get corrupted before the power comes back, you can't trade it for anything. Crypto is fraud that depends solely upon the dollar to be of any value. It itself is worth less than nothing and consumes resources to just stay in existence, and when it's done, or heck, even now it creates an environmental disaster in e-waste and pollution.
 

Archaea

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All those things you listed have a real trade value because they are either a physical thing that pre-dated the dollar, (which itself is only of value because of gold and oil), or a service or something that keeps you alive. What can you do with crypto when there is a use for those other things as a "currency", eg; when there is no power? All you can do is pray that your "wallet" doesn't get corrupted before the power comes back, you can't trade it for anything. Crypto is fraud that depends solely upon the dollar to be of any value. It itself is worth less than nothing and consumes resources to just stay in existence, and when it's done, or heck, even now it creates an environmental disaster in e-waste and pollution.
Intangibles and Ideas can have value in modern society. Intangibles and Brand are on every modern company balance sheet, listed as assets.

Crypto is an idea — based on reliable/repeatable/demonstrable mathematics

The whole world could go dark, no electricity, no government, no tech — and yes bitcoin would be worthless, but in that scenario so too would the dollar, your Bank, your Visa. You might have to fall back to trading with chickens and cows, soap, salt, labor, or ammo, and/or your vow as a man (not a tangible item) as your currency.

However, if only first, second, and third world countries went dark, the same scenario above would apply, to your Dollar, or Euro, or Rupee, or Frank or any other mainstream currency, but crypto would still work as a trusted store of value for any and all countries that survived, it doesnt rely on the confidence restored of a single government entity.

Once electricity and network was restored in the dark countries it would work again as if there had never been a problem. (Restored electricity and at least rudimentary network capability)

Crypto is not country dependent, it’s technology dependent. In some ways it’s more resilient than any currency before it because it is global, and independent, and resilient, unspoilable, and literally weighs nothing to move/carry/trade with.
 

NoNRG

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The guy who lost his crypto didn't get "hacked" due to malware or storing cryptocurrency on his phone. AT&T's actions directly led to the theft of his cryptocurrency. The $200 million punitive damage claim is a stretch, I would agree.

Terpin says AT&T was his mobile carrier when criminals accessed his cellphone account by carrying out SIM swap fraud. They then stole the tokens and allegedly transferred his account to an international criminal gang. Terpin is suing for the $23.8 million and an additional $200 million in punitive damages. AT&T told Reuters in a statement that it disputed these allegations. SIM hijacking occurs when a phone number is transferred to a different SIM card than the account owner’s without authorization or approval. Having access to a phone number is a very valuable method of hijacking other digital accounts. Motherboard did a great rundown on the growing threat. The stolen phone number was used to hack Terpin’s account, and on January 7th, three million cryptocurrency tokens worth (at the time) $23.8 million were stolen.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/15/17695132/att-sued-over-lost-cryptocurrency-sim-swap-theft
 

griff30

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Intangibles and Ideas can have value in modern society. Intangibles and Brand are on every modern company balance sheet, listed as assets.

Crypto is an idea — based on reliable/repeatable/demonstrable mathematics

The whole world could go dark, no electricity, no government, no tech — and yes bitcoin would be worthless, but in that scenario so too would the dollar, your Bank, your Visa. You might have to fall back to trading with chickens and cows, soap, salt, labor, or ammo, and/or your vow as a man (not a tangible item) as your currency.

However, if only first, second, and third world countries went dark, the same scenario above would apply, to your Dollar, or Euro, or Rupee, or Frank or any other mainstream currency, but crypto would still work as a trusted store of value for any and all countries that survived, it doesnt rely on the confidence restored of a single government entity.

Once electricity and network was restored in the dark countries it would work again as if there had never been a problem. (Restored electricity and at least rudimentary network capability)


Crypto is not country dependent, it’s technology dependent. In some ways it’s more resilient than any currency before it because it is global, and independent, and resilient, unspoilable, and literally weighs nothing to move/carry/trade with.
Crypto falls on it's ass in a disaster. No electric, no network, no crypto.
Cold hard cash has value in any disaster.
Crypto is also dependent on a constant influx of technology, one earthquake can cause a ram shortage and bam, crypto falls flat. Again.
Cryptocurrency as a very small investment I could see but to think of it as a stable fiat or a complete portfolio is ridiculous.

I'm waiting for the building jumpers when bitcoin drops to $50
 

Archaea

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Crypto is also dependent on a constant influx of technology, one earthquake can cause a ram shortage and bam, crypto falls flat.
No it doesn’t. You don’t know how it works.

The difficulty adjusts automatically as more hashing power joins the fray.

Bitcoin could scale back to work on basically nothing but a single server node if necessary (of course you’d lose the decentralized aspect of it). So let’s say 3 disparate servers so there’s no 51% majority with any 2. (51% attack would allow any one malicious entity to falsify transaction data if they own 51% of the computational power)

If the available hashing power drops way down, then the hashing difficulty drops way down to match, and crypto transactions continue without issue. The difficulty of the math adjusts so the block time still takes ~10 minutes. All transactions are bundled into that block. When the offline server nodes are back online — even if years later, they sync back up to the decentralized distributed blockchain ledger and join back into the mix. The only thing driving the ever present hardware frenzy is more and more people wanting their piece of the pie. (And Bitcoins tremendous spike in value). Bitcoin certainly doesn’t need all that hashing power to survive. The blocks are found every ~ 10 minutes wether with one server or 500,000 servers.

Do some base research before condemning it falsely. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on anything above. That’s my understanding from the reading I’ve done, but I’m still a greenhorn in crypto myself.
 
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Darunion

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Crypto falls on it's ass in a disaster. No electric, no network, no crypto.
Cold hard cash has value in any disaster.
Crypto is also dependent on a constant influx of technology, one earthquake can cause a ram shortage and bam, crypto falls flat. Again.
Cryptocurrency as a very small investment I could see but to think of it as a stable fiat or a complete portfolio is ridiculous.

I'm waiting for the building jumpers when bitcoin drops to $50
To a point. In a high enough scale of disaster cash can have no value. Or a depression. What ends up always having value is food and skills. If you can build fix or grow things, you will always have value.

Also, looking forward to massive groups committing suicide is not a trait that actually has any value in the world at any time :)

I have made in profit last year maybe 500-600 in bitcoins, but I spent them on amazon because i felt it was a short term thing. Because I thought it was stupid and shouldn't bother when they first launched (kicks self).

Now it is just like stocks in a way, if you have enough money you can make good money in the short term, but I wouldn't look to invest for your retirement with them. Turn them back into real money when you can flip for profit.

This is an interesting lawsuit though. More of a kick to people that don't realize that nothing is secure. A lock of any type is simply a filter. That amount of money you should have your own offline wallet for it and not a device that is regularly connecting to the internet and is tied to you especially if you make mention of the amount of money you have to anyone.
 

S1B

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Bitmain a winner? Hardly. It's trying to unload unsold hardware inventory and loads of useless Bcash that it can't sell without crashing the price since no-one wants it. They're trying to get others to hold their bags. BCH was an attack on BTC, just look at BTCU, B2X
 

prne10

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The part I don't agree with is the coffee being too hot. Most coffee is brewed between 195-205F. Unless it's the storage carafe that he's talking about.
No reasonable business should be serving coffee at those temperatures.
 

Retronym

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Bitmain a winner? Hardly. It's trying to unload unsold hardware inventory and loads of useless Bcash that it can't sell without crashing the price since no-one wants it. They're trying to get others to hold their bags. BCH was an attack on BTC, just look at BTCU, B2X
I dont know if the situation has changed recently but I remember reading that they would only sell their hardware for bitcoin cash.
 

Archaea

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I dont know if the situation has changed recently but I remember reading that they would only sell their hardware for bitcoin cash.
It varied on and off, but yes, multiple times with new ASICs they would only accept BCH. My A3 antminer was that way for instance.

Othertimes they accepted USD wires, Litecoin, BCH, or BTC.
 

NickJames

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No reasonable business should be serving coffee at those temperatures.
Probably not but you shouldn't attempt to mix cream and sugar by holding a flimsy paper cup between your legs either. It's like being served fajitas at Chili's and then burning yourself on the skillet by touching it even though they tell you it's hot and the food is clearly still sizzling.
 
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