Critics Of “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” Blast New Film

Wierdo

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When was Star Wars about character development? People should really re-watch the originals. The dialog is pretty simplistic. The Danish Girl this movie is not, nor has the franchise ever been. There are no complex acting moments within the entire Star Wars franchise that anyone can remember beyond, "I am Your Father," or "The Force is with you." The original movies really were about showcasing special effects and Jim Henson's work more than anything. Most of the character development happened in the books.

I think the originals did a decent job at it, no award winning drama levels or anything, but enough to make the characters interesting, it put enough emphasis on it to make them come to life.

I think movies in the 80s in general were a bit slower paced because of that. I wasn't asking for much, just more than a couple minutes before explosions started again.

Like the weird sudden infatuation between the main characters, like how the big shot pilot survived the crash and got to the base - around five seconds in a one liner was devoted to it, no joke, is this guy even important to the story?

Just my 2 cents.
 
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New characters are all wimps and reflect the current generation of youth; everybody is a winner, and everybody is emo. They are all chicken shit and run at the first sign of danger and responsibility. Past generations ran into danger and wanted action. Something in the water today, this movie along with 21 jumpstreet demonstrated this new gay as aids culture.
 

Dan_D

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When was Star Wars about character development? People should really re-watch the originals. The dialog is pretty simplistic. The Danish Girl this movie is not, nor has the franchise ever been. There are no complex acting moments within the entire Star Wars franchise that anyone can remember beyond, "I am Your Father," or "The Force is with you." The original movies really were about showcasing special effects and Jim Henson's work more than anything. Most of the character development happened in the books.

The character development in the original movies took all three films to come together in anyway shape or form as there was so little of it in those movies. This one doesn't seem any different.
 

cptnjarhead

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That massive bowcaster shot that hit Kylo directly in the abdomen likely handicapped him quite a bit, the part I felt a little more odd was the fact Kylo didn't deflect or otherwise to the blast, likely clouded by the emotional moment that occurred prior. Rey embraced the force, much like Luke in A New Hope when he fired the two torpedoes to hit a 2m exhaust port. For instance Luke when he was using the training droid on the Millennium Falcon in A New Hope when Luke wore the blaster helmet, once he let the force flow through him he deflected every shot while blinded. All she had to do was "Just let it in.". That being said, I draw a bigger comparison with Rey to Anakin than Luke. Much like Anakin knew he had skill/powers but didn't understand them, she just had to link the lore with her abilities, only she reluctantly took on the role as a Jedi as Luke did, where Anakin was all for it. I have a feeling Episode VIII will have the potential to be the best film of the series, I can't wait to see what Rian Johnson has in store for us.

Yes, definitely excited to see whats next. Your reply got me thinking about reversal in the final fight. Might have more to do with Kylo's hidden fear that he would not be as powerful as his uncle. That was more of a conflict than good vs evil. This could mean that Kylo is not the chosen one to lead the Sith, and he new that Luke was the key and i think he wanted to kill Luke so he would be the chosen, but with the introduction of Rey, he is starting to realize the he's just a pawn.
 

DeathFromBelow

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Only complaint was a Jedi trained Kylo-Ren getting his ass kicked by...
I thought it was clear that all lightsaber-wielding characters in the movie had some experience (or training) with melee weapons.

When you think about the defensive position of the character you're talking about and how Jedi are supposed to fight the meditative combat scene makes sense. A Jedi lets the force flow through him! Kylo was also seriously injured prior to that fight.
 

zalazin

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I saw the first one a new hope in 1977 when ir first came out the new one really does play on nostalgia. That being said I gave it a 13 out of 10.......
 
D

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Rey and Finn's characters were non believable. I don't blame the actors. They did what they could with what they were given.

The steaming pile of dung VII is the fault of JJ and the script writers. I still think JJ was a mistake. He couldn't direct his way out of a bag of dung

(Although it's not as bad as Episode I)
 

amddragonpc

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The new villian was an idiot. When he completes his training, he'll be a complete idiot.
 

cptnjarhead

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I thought it was clear that all lightsaber-wielding characters in the movie had some experience (or training) with melee weapons.

When you think about the defensive position of the character you're talking about and how Jedi are supposed to fight the meditative combat scene makes sense. A Jedi lets the force flow through him! Kylo was also seriously injured prior to that fight.

yeah, you can have "some" training, but Kylo was trained as a Jedi, and also trained by the dark lord Snoke. (probably Darth Plagueis). Instead of Rey being able to out duel him with a saber, it would have been easier for me to swallow, if was able to escape Kylo than defeating him. Kylos conflict with her ability to resist his mind penetration alone was enough to create an opening for her to escape. Thats why my favorite character was Fin, he stood his ground but got his ass kicked, As with Luke vs Vader, Anakin vs Dooku, training is needed to defeat a power Sith, and even that does not guarantee success, ie qui gon jinn vs darth maul. The only thing i will give, is that Rey did not fear Kylo once she realized his fear, and her connection to the force, that i will concede as a factor to her victory, although i dont like the exact outcome.
 

erexx

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Force Awakens is a Good movie... not Great.
Probably #3 after Star Wars 4 and 5.
I had a problem with the treatment of the Millennium Falcon regarding JJ's sense of lose physics.
The way Han found the Millennium Falcon again and Han's cargo was ludicrous use of CGI.
A Star Trek Warp Field technobabble flashback moment when describing the StarKiller. Thanks J.J!
Ren's Helmet only seems to serve 1 purpose... to protect his perfect hair... no helmet hair in StarWars!
Ren should have dispatched Finn almost immediately... with disdain...
After that Rey's fight with Ren would have been totally appropriate... instead Ren looked like a totally inept light saber duelist.
The entire film lacks feeling of the size and weight of the StarWars Universe.
Fortunately JJ wont be doing the next one.
 

Elledan

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As a Star Trek fan who had to watch on as JJ Abrams destroyed the last remnants of her favourite sci-fi franchise, I can only agree with these critics. JJ Abrams is a terrible director who doesn't seem to like or care about anything he directs. All he wants to do is direct cool action movies like an 8-year old boy with an over-active imagination.

Now, some people are totally fine with action movies, and hey, it's Star Trek/Wars, so it must be awesome, right? As the Phantom Menace and its offspring showed, that's just not the case.

I can appreciate the first three Star Wars movies for the classic fantasy space opera movies they are (albeit with stretches of amateur level acting), but it might be best to leave that franchise at that point as well, just like how I consider the real Star Trek franchise to have ended with Star Trek Voyager.

Excuse me while I dart out of the back door now amidst a shower of rotten fruit from those who disagree with me :D
 

Dan_D

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I thought the Force Awakens was great. It's not without its flaws, but overall I think its the best installment since Episode V. For me, Empire and Return of the Jedi were far better than Episode IV. Episode IV suffers from the worst dialog out of the original trilogy, the worst effects and bad pacing in spots. It will always be special for being the first of its kind and being a revolution to science fiction that paved the way for the return of Star Trek and the acceptance of science fiction as a genre. Without it, comic book films, TV shows and even games might be drastically different than they are today.

Personally I think Return of the Jedi had the potential to be the best in the series. Luke was grown up. He wasn't a whiny bitch anymore. The dialog was again not great, but the throne room duel, and several other scenes elevate it to at least the level of the Empire Strikes back. What drags that movie down is ultimately the Endor scenes. The Ewoks are ridiculous and it hurt the film overall. I provide this context for expressing my point of view on Episode VII.

It lacked the general silly bullshit we've come to expect from many films in the series. Episode VII, for all it's faults is generally pretty serious and dark in ton. It borrows heavily from all of the previous films and the larger EU (albeit selectively) and for the most part it works. The film never makes and attempt to hid what its doing and pays homage to the originals in an unapologetic way. You can see it on Harrison Ford's face when they have to deliver BB8 to the resistance. He's got that; "this seems familiar" type of look. Someone in the Resistance control room even states; "It's the Death Star all over again."

What I thought was interesting about the film borrowing from the earlier films was the way they changed up the details. For example, Han Solo very much takes on Obi-Wan Kenobi's role in the film. Instead of one dumb farm boy who's along for the ride we get two young characters who largely split the role.

As for the casting of Kylo Ren, I don't totally hate the character. I was as critical as anyone about Anakin's casting in the prequel films but here it makes some sense. He's the same sort of "type" that both Anakin and Luke were when they were young. The villain needed to be young in order to fit within the confines of the story. If they had cast some rugged looking guy with a chiseled body, you'd never believe he was descended from the Skywalker family. Kylo Ren's anger issues make sense on two levels. One, Sith all embrace their passions and outbursts of rage anger are common place. Two, because he is young it doesn't have that festering but boiling over quality that Anakin had as Darth Vader.

Ultimately a lot of the way this film seems constructed seems to boil down to it being done in the safest way possible that would please the most people and maximize profits. So there is a lot of fan service here and while it does lack depth and provide inherent predictability I found it entertaining which is the point. I think the film gets more right than it does wrong.
 

Dan_D

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I can appreciate the first three Star Wars movies for the classic fantasy space opera movies they are (albeit with stretches of amateur level acting), but it might be best to leave that franchise at that point as well, just like how I consider the real Star Trek franchise to have ended with Star Trek Voyager.

The real Star Trek ended with Deep Space Nine. Voyager was a fucking travesty and a total clusterfuck of cliché's, over-used plotlines, continuity errors, inconsistent story telling and lame duck characters. Most of Voyager's characters were either developmentally challenged or suffered from development that was hyper accelerated too fast. Most often either direction had negative results. It was a piece of shit for a lot of the reasons why Enterprise was. That's not to say they don't have some occasionally good episodes or story arcs, but the overall series is mediocre to bad just like the episodes that comprise it.

The Warp 10 episode stands tall as the single worst episode of Star Trek, spanning it's 48 year history. I believe that episode to be the single worst live-action example of Star Trek material, including the horrible fan fictions and crossovers to be found in the darkest reaches of the internet's anus. Even the horrible Enterprise series finale doesn't compare to this utter trashing of the in-universe mythology. At least the finale to Enterprise wasn't based on a totally bad premise which shattered the show's 40 years of mythology. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, easily the second worst Star Trek offense of all time. The Warp 10 episode however stands alone in its badness. It's worse than the Star Wars Holiday Special, Spock's Brain and the worst direct to DVD atrocities given to us by aging 1980's action stars combined.
 

Dan_D

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To further clarify, the Warp 10 episode is so bad that it would BENEFIT from JJ Abrams retelling it. And I can't fucking stand what he's done to Star Trek.
 

Stoly

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I saw it on premier day... I mean night... midnight

I went with my 8yo kid. I was almost 8 when I saw StarWars and I can say that his reaction mimics mine back then. He was completely amazed. We've already seen all starwars films together and not one made him as excited as FA. So I tried to do the same, just enjoy the movie without over analizing it. And enjoy I did.

Most of my friends weren't as excited and plenty were dissapointed. And after my excitement passed I too was aware of its problems. The grandpa scene was way too soon, the Yodette and Palpatine 2.0 leaved a lot to be desired, etc.

But then again even the all mighty ESB has its flaws, and it seems many of the issues will be resolved in EP VIII so there's hope.
 

Filiprino

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Hah, I've read my previous post and I have 2 big gramatical errors. But I can not edit :S
Well...
 

Stoly

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All he wants to do is direct cool action movies like an 8-year old boy with an over-active imagination.

I don't see what's the problem with that. There are plenty of directors that want to take things too seriously.
 

michael.pa2

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The new villian was an idiot. When he completes his training, he'll be a complete idiot.

That was the weakest part of the movie for me,the villains.In the original trilogy you had Darth Vader and the Emperor. Bad as the second trilogy was,Darth Maul was pretty bad ass.For this one we get a wimpy,tantrum throwing emo with daddy issues,and a holographic giant Gollum who will probably be revealed to be a diminutive pipsqueak using illusions like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain.
 

Elledan

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The real Star Trek ended with Deep Space Nine. Voyager was a fucking travesty and a total clusterfuck of cliché's, over-used plotlines, continuity errors, inconsistent story telling and lame duck characters. Most of Voyager's characters were either developmentally challenged or suffered from development that was hyper accelerated too fast. Most often either direction had negative results. It was a piece of shit for a lot of the reasons why Enterprise was. That's not to say they don't have some occasionally good episodes or story arcs, but the overall series is mediocre to bad just like the episodes that comprise it.

I don't disagree with that :) DS9 was the last Star Trek series which was just basically brilliant from beginning to end. I watched Voyager when it first aired and maybe it just grew on me. Watching it back years later I find myself skipping lots of episodes, like all the Fair Haven filler.

I think I mostly see Voyager as being 'all right', because it still had some good to great story arcs in there which worked out well.

The Warp 10 episode stands tall as the single worst episode of Star Trek, spanning it's 48 year history. I believe that episode to be the single worst live-action example of Star Trek material, including the horrible fan fictions and crossovers to be found in the darkest reaches of the internet's anus. Even the horrible Enterprise series finale doesn't compare to this utter trashing of the in-universe mythology. At least the finale to Enterprise wasn't based on a totally bad premise which shattered the show's 40 years of mythology. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, easily the second worst Star Trek offense of all time. The Warp 10 episode however stands alone in its badness. It's worse than the Star Wars Holiday Special, Spock's Brain and the worst direct to DVD atrocities given to us by aging 1980's action stars combined.

I remember that episode. It is called Treshold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_(Star_Trek:_Voyager)

It's definitely not one of the more brilliant moments, and should probably be forgotten.

That said, both TNG and DS9 top my list for most eps with deep philosophical insights. Especially episodes in TNG like 'Measure of a Man', which are simply brilliant. And who can forget to count the right number of lights after a certain episode? ;)
 

jedijeb

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I watched it, I liked it, but then I read most of the books up until Ep 1 came out. There are a lot of things in this movie that draw from the expanded universe that Disney said they threw out, and making the connections for me was interesting. The only thing I didn't care for was the end seemed a little rushed and could have been filled out a little more and it didn't have quite as much of a cliff hanger ending, but then Ep 4 ended the same so maybe Ep 8 will be the cliff hanger that Ep 5 was.
 

ManofGod

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I am sure glad I went to see the movie by myself so I could completely enjoy it. (It was great.) Also, I enjoyed all the Star Trek series including Enterprise. (The third season was not so good but, that was because the dragged the story line on too long.) Also, Star Trek 5 was not good because, the center of the galaxy is 10's or thousands of light years away but, they make it in one day?
 

ManofGod

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The real Star Trek ended with Deep Space Nine. Voyager was a fucking travesty and a total clusterfuck of cliché's, over-used plotlines, continuity errors, inconsistent story telling and lame duck characters. Most of Voyager's characters were either developmentally challenged or suffered from development that was hyper accelerated too fast. Most often either direction had negative results. It was a piece of shit for a lot of the reasons why Enterprise was. That's not to say they don't have some occasionally good episodes or story arcs, but the overall series is mediocre to bad just like the episodes that comprise it.

The Warp 10 episode stands tall as the single worst episode of Star Trek, spanning it's 48 year history. I believe that episode to be the single worst live-action example of Star Trek material, including the horrible fan fictions and crossovers to be found in the darkest reaches of the internet's anus. Even the horrible Enterprise series finale doesn't compare to this utter trashing of the in-universe mythology. At least the finale to Enterprise wasn't based on a totally bad premise which shattered the show's 40 years of mythology. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, easily the second worst Star Trek offense of all time. The Warp 10 episode however stands alone in its badness. It's worse than the Star Wars Holiday Special, Spock's Brain and the worst direct to DVD atrocities given to us by aging 1980's action stars combined.

You do understand that Warp 10 was considered the maximum, infinite speed on the cochrane scale, right? Do you even read any of the books or do you just live on the TV show only? This warp scale was produced before the Voyager show even started.
 

Dan_D

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I don't disagree with that :) DS9 was the last Star Trek series which was just basically brilliant from beginning to end. I watched Voyager when it first aired and maybe it just grew on me. Watching it back years later I find myself skipping lots of episodes, like all the Fair Haven filler.

I think I mostly see Voyager as being 'all right', because it still had some good to great story arcs in there which worked out well.



I remember that episode. It is called Treshold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_(Star_Trek:_Voyager)

It's definitely not one of the more brilliant moments, and should probably be forgotten.

That said, both TNG and DS9 top my list for most eps with deep philosophical insights. Especially episodes in TNG like 'Measure of a Man', which are simply brilliant. And who can forget to count the right number of lights after a certain episode? ;)

I don't require TV shows, not even Star Trek to be deep, thought provoking, philosophical or insightful. I am glad Star Trek can do those things as well as provide entertainment on a multitude of levels. It was a show which could make you ponder the mysteries of the universe while providing explosions and fist fights all in the same episode. The original series had many philosophical moments but it's combination of character driven narratives, action and unique science fiction atmosphere are what drew me to the show and kept me watching everything Star Trek related years later.

Unfortunately what JJ Abrams has done was give us action with no subtext and no depth. Basically it's like watching Star Trek Nemesis in different skins. All action, little substance.

Lol jj is the new Braga.

When it comes to Star Trek, absolutely. With regard to Star Wars, I think there is more there than people give it credit for. Lawrence Kasdan co-wrote Episode VII. He is the man who co-wrote The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. I'm not saying the movie doesn't get some things wrong, or make choices I don't agree with, but the totality of the film won't be fully understood until the trilogy is finished. There are a few points Episode VII wasn't quite clear on that we need some explanation for.

If you go back to Episode IV, there isn't a lot of character development there either. We didn't have a complete picture of the characters until all three films were finished. Luke and Han Solo stand out as two characters that show a great deal of progression from Episode IV to Episode VI. I'm expecting the same thing here.
 

Dan_D

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You do understand that Warp 10 was considered the maximum, infinite speed on the cochrane scale, right?

Actually, that's the warp scale. The Cochrane scale is different. The latter is a unit of measurement for subspace distortion. Not velocity.

Yes, I do understand that warp 10 is the absolute maximum of the warp scale used in Star Trek the Next Generation through Star Trek Voyager. Attaining it, according to the Star Trek the Next Generation Technical Manual, required nearly infinite energy. This is something that our current real world understanding of physics agrees with.

Do you even read any of the books or do you just live on the TV show only? This warp scale was produced before the Voyager show even started.

I have read many of the books associated with the franchise, but I'd like to point out that the books are not canon and never were, no matter how closely associated with the show they are.

The warp scale was changed for Star Trek the Next Generation. Warp 10 was placed as an unreachable top of the new scale. The Star Trek Next Generation technical manual states that achieving the speed would be impossible. The Next Generation also showed an alternate timeline where that scale was re-evaluated in the episode "All Good Things." Such a turn of events is likely given that warp speeds on the later ships was reaching speeds of warp 9.975 etc. It seems reasonable to call 9.99 warp 10, and 9.999 warp 11 or whatever.

The problem with that show is that it portrays warp 10 the same way that it was described in the ST:TNG Technical Manual where speed was infinite and one would exist in every place in the universe simultaneously. This is indeed what happened in the show. What's fucking bullshit about it is that this was achieved on a Class 2 shuttlecraft that had a maximum warp speed of around warp 2 or 4 depending on the source material. That's like trying to hit 1,000 MPH in a Viper using it's stock engine. It isn't fucking possible. That episode breaks all the shows own rules and established lore for a story that's fucking retarded.

Don't forget how Janeway and Paris "evolved" into salamanders that showed no sentient behavior, fucked and laid eggs, then were turned back into humans later.

Warp 10 is also described as a transwarp barrier in the same show which makes no fucking sense. Voyager had traveled at transwarp velocities several times in the series which is clearly different than warp 10. This is the problem with Voyager. It was inconsistent at best in terms of writing quality. It doesn't always follow it's own rules.
 

c3141hf

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The real Star Trek ended with Deep Space Nine. Voyager was a fucking travesty and a total clusterfuck of cliché's, over-used plotlines, continuity errors, inconsistent story telling and lame duck characters. Most of Voyager's characters were either developmentally challenged or suffered from development that was hyper accelerated too fast. Most often either direction had negative results. It was a piece of shit for a lot of the reasons why Enterprise was. That's not to say they don't have some occasionally good episodes or story arcs, but the overall series is mediocre to bad just like the episodes that comprise it.

The Warp 10 episode stands tall as the single worst episode of Star Trek, spanning it's 48 year history. I believe that episode to be the single worst live-action example of Star Trek material, including the horrible fan fictions and crossovers to be found in the darkest reaches of the internet's anus. Even the horrible Enterprise series finale doesn't compare to this utter trashing of the in-universe mythology. At least the finale to Enterprise wasn't based on a totally bad premise which shattered the show's 40 years of mythology. Don't get me wrong, it was bad, easily the second worst Star Trek offense of all time. The Warp 10 episode however stands alone in its badness. It's worse than the Star Wars Holiday Special, Spock's Brain and the worst direct to DVD atrocities given to us by aging 1980's action stars combined.

I will take Enterprise over Voyager any day.

Enterprise actually got pretty good starting with Season 3 once the EPs got it through their heads to stop copying Voyager. Unfortunately, the terrible first two seasons caused most people to stop watching long before S3 aired.
 

Dan_D

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I loved all the movies, even the much maligned EI-III.

I have the same general problems with Episode I that everyone else does. Additionally I dislike the visual style of many things in Episodes I and II. Episode II's love story was fucking painful to watch. The movie had some pacing issues. It's mediocre at best and for a Star Wars movie its terrible. Episode III is one I genuinely enjoy up until the last 10 or 15 minutes where it turns to shit. The whole Frankenstein's monster bit is fucking retarded, unimaginative and lazy. The reasoning behind Padme's death is an even worse atrocity. The last few minutes ruin an otherwise solid film for me. Sure that movie has other issues but I enjoyed it for the most part.
 

Dan_D

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I will take Enterprise over Voyager any day.

Enterprise actually got pretty good starting with Season 3 once the EPs got it through their heads to stop copying Voyager. Unfortunately, the terrible first two seasons caused most people to stop watching long before S3 aired.

Enterrpise was a bad idea that was surprisingly well executed in places. The premise of the show was never done justice. They just couldn't adequately tackle the founding of the United Federation of Planets and everything that needed to go along with it in the framework of a TV show. Despite that, I think it has more solid character driven episodes than Voyager does. Though it suffers from many of the same issues, such as lame characters. The Temporal Cold War was unpleasant crap to watch. You are correct in stating that the later episodes were much better. They certainly were but by the time they fixed much of what was wrong with the show, it was too little, too late.
 

Lunas

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You do understand that Warp 10 was considered the maximum, infinite speed on the cochrane scale, right? Do you even read any of the books or do you just live on the TV show only? This warp scale was produced before the Voyager show even started.

Did you know that in the novels the warp 10 barrier is not really existent the Enterprise A was regularly cruising around at warp 15. And warp 10 was broken on numerous occasions with side effects similar to how it was depicted in Voyager. The biggest travesty in Voyager is 7 of 9 she literally got the job by sleeping with the director and she literally was paraded around in the skin suit to pump ratings. Years later she was quoted as the first skin suit she was stuffed into she wanted to burn it as it was fit with a built in girdle and she could barely breathe while she wore it.

Biggest flaw in the warp 10 episode is that hitting warp 10 causes you to exist on all points of space and time at once... This is simply not how it works you just travel exponentially faster at warp 11 voyager could be home in a few months not everywhere and nowhere at the same time. The problem is when you pass the threshold a new type of radiation field that has been found to not be possible to shield against causes mutations and rapid evolutions.

All of that said it never really made sense to me that the new dilithium they found in that episode they chose not to use it and keep the engines going at warp 9.975.



Steering this back to topic.

A light saber to master one requires 2 things a practiced mastery of the force and intense melee training specifically for the light saber. There are references to untrained people attempting to wield lightsabers cutting off both of their arms.

If you did not have the force it would be almost impossible to use a lightsaber in battle.

Now finn held his own pretty damn well vs a trained jedi/sith. When all he had to go on was stormtrooper training... yeah he needs to have force sensitivity...
 

Elledan

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I don't require TV shows, not even Star Trek to be deep, thought provoking, philosophical or insightful. I am glad Star Trek can do those things as well as provide entertainment on a multitude of levels. It was a show which could make you ponder the mysteries of the universe while providing explosions and fist fights all in the same episode. The original series had many philosophical moments but it's combination of character driven narratives, action and unique science fiction atmosphere are what drew me to the show and kept me watching everything Star Trek related years later.

Unfortunately what JJ Abrams has done was give us action with no subtext and no depth. Basically it's like watching Star Trek Nemesis in different skins. All action, little substance.

I completely agree. I love DS9 and TNG because of how their main characters and even some side characters carried the show through a wide variety of scenarios, ranging from serious, to very dangerous to emotional and joyful moments. All of that helps to make these characters into human beings you can relate to. Even the 'bad guys' are made to look sympathetic at times, like Gul Dukat. You both hate and like the guy.

Star Trek Nemesis is this uneasy blur in the back of my mind which I never hope to revisit. Similar to the travesty that was JJ "I hate Star Trek" Abram's Star Trek reboot =/
 

ZodaEX

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I completely agree. I love DS9 and TNG because of how their main characters and even some side characters carried the show through a wide variety of scenarios, ranging from serious, to very dangerous to emotional and joyful moments. All of that helps to make these characters into human beings you can relate to. Even the 'bad guys' are made to look sympathetic at times, like Gul Dukat. You both hate and like the guy.

Star Trek Nemesis is this uneasy blur in the back of my mind which I never hope to revisit. Similar to the travesty that was JJ "I hate Star Trek" Abram's Star Trek reboot =/

How did this become a Star Trek thread?
 

MrGuvernment

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..............Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...............


I like this

http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

The problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.
 

Bowman15

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,905

The problem is we're talking about movies, which is more subjective to all sort of opinions rather than say specific scientific or medical topics, etc. where expert opinions would carry more weight. You either like the movie, somewhere in between or don't like it. If you go by experts in the novels that go strictly by canon this might be a bad movie, others who just enjoy Sci Fi movies might love it. Nobody is wrong or right in this.There is a reason movie critics don't carry as much weight as they used to as there is so much more pre-release information before hand to make up our own minds.
 

KENNYB

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Messages
3,147
The Warp 10 episode however stands alone in its badness. It's worse than the Star Wars Holiday Special, Spock's Brain and the worst direct to DVD atrocities given to us by aging 1980's action stars combined.

I'd still watch that Warp 10 episode over watching Star Wars episode 1.
 

Lunas

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 22, 2001
Messages
10,024
I'd still watch that Warp 10 episode over watching Star Wars episode 1.

I would watch the warp 10 episode on repeat for the length of time it takes to watch episode 1 and 2 over watching episode 1 and 2 again
 
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