"Criminal Conduct": NYPD Asks Google to Scrap Waze's DUI/DWI Checkpoints

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    24,218
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Did you even read the article before posting it other than to cherry pick some random fact from it? They only accepted applicants that ranged from 20-27 on their scale. The average applicant scoring 21-22 which equated to an IQ of 104 which is in the average range. A low applicant of 20 still wouldn't fall into the below average range of IQ. And that's the point of the article...As long as they applied the range consistently, neither the high IQ nor the low IQ person could argue it was discrimination.

    Not to mention you are implying that one department out of 18,000+ nationally is indicative of the other 17,999+ departments which is simply foolish.
     
    purple_monster likes this.
  2. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,021
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008

    Lol project much. Wishing people get killed because you think you are high and mighty for letting the police roll over you is crazy.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  3. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,127
    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Yes, many parts of it are quite stupid and random, however these programs have been pushed by parent groups, like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving), anything in the US that gets the "if it saves only one child" mantra behind it, all common sense goes out the window, it is a truly frightening mindset, as they are willing to put ANY freedom on the chopping block for it.

    One thing I am happy about is my state, they are not legal.

    Not to step on other peoples debate, but yall are looking at the wrong thing. Yes, most LEO and military are average IQ or lower, however read some psychology papers on the topic, it is really more about the mentality of the people that are attracted to these kind of jobs, many are not the kind of people you want in those positions of power. Just like the video I posted, they might come off as "low IQ" but really it's ignorance and a superiority complex, they are right and in control, IQ doesn't matter in a situation like that. Which might be even more frightening than the "low IQ" theory.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  4. Draax

    Draax [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,085
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    I actually live in Canada and what I suggest is actually a solution, perhaps the only solution in your hypothetical situation.

    In your hypothetical scenario the only way you would be “busted” would be if you drove, then arrived home and got drunk ... and for some unexplained reason police showed up to your house, by coincidence somehow I guess?

    The change in laws would not result in people who have not driven somehow being charged with DUI.
     
  5. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,021
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Not yet anyways. They will just say someone saw you driving.
     
    Armenius and Revdarian like this.
  6. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,663
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    they can breath test you at home after you got home any time. and if it was less than 2 hours after you drove you are fined and jailed.

    fascism.

    and you don't need to be drunk have 2 beers in less than 45 minutes.
     
    Armenius and Revdarian like this.
  7. Draax

    Draax [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,085
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    I don’t know about you but the cops don’t just randomly show up to my house on the regular, or ever for that matter. I guess I just can’t envision a scenario in which I arrive home, have a few beers, and the cops show up to my house wanting to randomly give me a breath test.

    I also don’t see the cops having some axe to grind with me so they get someone to lie and say I have just been driving so they can pin a DUI on me for some unknown reason.
     
    kirbyrj likes this.
  8. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    It's not that it hasn't happened...it's that it's _allowed_ to happen.
     
  9. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,021
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Yet it happens to people. If you want to be blind that's cool. Just don't cry when you get pinched.
     
  10. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,872
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    I didn't even know Waze had a special classification for such a thing. I thought it was just a general "cops are here" button. Either way I don't see how it's illegal.
     
    Revdarian likes this.
  11. mlcarson

    mlcarson Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    307
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    The video that BlueFireIce posted is scary as hell. I always wondered how they tested for drugs on DUI arrests since a breathalyzer won't show them. I never imagined that it's just based on the arresting officer's opinion and that you could get arrested and convicted of a DUI even if the tests came back negative. There really needs to be an objective test that you can take to at the very least prove your innocence but since when has that been the standard? Our system is based on the assumption of innocence and the concept of proving guilt.

    If a blood tests shows you're positive for anything, is that really proof of guilt? Shouldn't there be a required measurement that would prove impairment as there is in alcohol? I'm the poor guy that would get arrested because he has dry eyes (so there's redness) and had taken a Benadryl within 24 hrs and ended up losing his license, job, and any chance at future employment because of the arrest.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  12. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    24,218
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    It doesn't happen to people. What really happens is people are driving, see a cop and try to get home before the cop pulls them over. They get out of the car and try to run in their houses before the cop can get out of his car. Or they flee the scene of a crash leaving their car at the scene. I can guarantee you that a cop will not randomly pull up to your house and ask you to take a breath test without some other exigent circumstances almost certainly involving your car. If it did happen due to some rogue cop being a bad police officer, any evidence seized would be thrown out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  13. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

    Messages:
    923
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Actually, I believe the supreme court ruled that cops have to have signs warning of DUI checkpoints, and turning around cannot be used as an excuse to check you out, or give a public notice in a newspaper. So what is the difference between that and an "APP?"

    The cops know very well WAZE and anyone else is within their rights to warn about DUI check points and other police activity, yet they still send that letter disguising a request as a demand.
     
  14. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    24,218
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    First of all, there are several way police look for "visual indicators." One of which is your regular "Standardized Field Sobriety Tests" (walk and turn, one leg stand, etc.). ARIDE (Advanced Roadside Impairment Driving Enforcement) tests, which is what that video portrays is another. It's not the "opinion" of the officer so much as it is basic knowledge that certain types of drugs (depressants, narcotics, stimulants, etc.) cause different physical reactions in people. If you see certain involuntary physical reactions (such as the various eye movement in Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus tests), there is now sufficient evidence to request a blood draw.

    If you refuse the blood draw, there is a chance you could be found guilty as there is no evidence for or against your taking drugs and it comes down to the testimony of the officer (not to mention most states will suspend your driver's license). If you take the blood draw, you can point to the fact that no substances were found in your system. If you have a clean blood draw, you will beat a DUI 99.999% of the time.
     
  15. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    The presumption of innocence is missing...

    Law officers, being "officers of the court" are somehow assumed to always have probity beyond reproach. I.e, officers never lie...or make mistakes.

    This is how tyranny starts. Sounds like a good intention. If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear...comrade.

    It just never ends well.
     
  16. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

    Messages:
    680
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Danish police like the popular waze like APP many use here, and in spite of many using it they still capture plenty of speeders, though when they deploy their mobile speed trap vans 9 out of 10 times it are in the regular spots where you can almost set your clock by them
    They also always announce when they will be doing DIY checks ASO, just follow your local PD on that bird thing.

    I have never gotten a speeding ticket, which by my insane driving in the 80 and 90ties are kind of a miracle, i was so bad i have even driven my car 10 - 12 M on 2 wheels ( clipping inside curb on a turn and so getting flipped up onto my left wheels )
    And often driving 2 -3 miles in a suburban scene had me arriving at goal with severe brake fading due to overheating brake disks, brake disks i changed at least one time every year.
    Just to make sure, i have never been in a accident or wrecked any of my cars, my first car i did but a dent in, but that was solely blamed on utter stupid dumb assery.
     
  17. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,021
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Lol rogue cop theory again. Let me guess only one in a million is a bad cop, right? Things happen more than they should, but it's ok because it doesn't happen to you.
     
    TonyZ likes this.
  18. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    24,218
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Actually I think it just shows how little comprehension you have of the criminal justice system in general.
     
  19. Creig

    Creig Gawd

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    The "screw the pigs" keyboard cowboys here are beyond hilarious. Don't want to get into trouble? Don't break the law. Simple.

    Oh, and keep thinking that the police aren't intelligent. They love criminals who underestimate them. It makes their job SOOOO much easier.
     
  20. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    There's a big difference between "screw the pigs" and giving up your rights. I've had several family members in law enforcement. It was the stories they told me about the actions of law enforcement officers that has solidified my belief that the presumption of innocence should NEVER be shed by any judiciary when taking up a prosecution. Abuse of power may not be commonplace, but it is not uncommon.

    There are "bad apples". I hope, for your sake, you never run into one.
     
    Armenius and BlueFireIce like this.
  21. Creig

    Creig Gawd

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    I never said one word about "giving up your rights". If someone is truly innocent, then I hope the judicial system works as intended and they are ultimately exonerated. Over the years, I've run into "bad apples" who were individuals, business owners, elected officials, etc. It happens. And it sucks when it happens. But the overwhelming majority of police officers out there are honest.
     
  22. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Can a shopkeeper lock you up? Can he strip search you? Can he take your cash away (asset forfeiture)?

    That is why there must be iron-clad guards against abuses. Because men are not angels, it should never be assumed that men will act as angels.
     
  23. Lizard Testes

    Lizard Testes Gawd

    Messages:
    524
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    I drive better when I'm drunk.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  24. Creig

    Creig Gawd

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    I've had two people that caused a collision with my vehicle lie directly to the police in order to try and place me at blame instead of them (one of them a rich old guy who owned multiple businesses). Luckily there was a witness to the one with the old guy who phoned the police and gave an eyewitness account. So yes. If this business owner had managed to convince the police that his story made more sense than mine, I could have been found at fault and had to pay.
     
  25. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    No. The liar could not lock you up and strip search you and seize your goods. He could, and did, LIE. But, he had no power of coercion over you.

    When cops lie, the damage they do goes far beyond what anyone else can do.

    Edited to add: I just saw this story: https://www.foxnews.com/us/body-cam...an-at-least-11-times-during-2017-traffic-stop

    Now, I haven't watched the video. (I think body-cams and dash-cams should be mandatory for EVERY court appearance. It protects the police officer and the accused.) I have no idea if this particular tasing was justified or not. But, they pulled a PASSENGER out of a PARKED car because he refused to show his driver's license.

    "Papers, please!"
     
    purple_monster likes this.
  26. wizzi01

    wizzi01 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,021
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Hmm, wonder why it says you quoted me. Anyways, I actually support police. Hell, I grew up around them. My best friend's mom and his two brothers are DPD. It doesn't mean I won't speak up against cops doing dirty or violating rights.

    They just found evidence in a retired homicide detective's home he was evicted from. I wonder if any of that evidence could have proved someone's innocence. We will have to wait and see.

    https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wa...lice-homicide-detectives-home-during-eviction

    Oh yeah, don't forget to use your turn signal as they will medically check your rectum.

     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    c3k likes this.
  27. Creig

    Creig Gawd

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    And what do you think happens to someone falsely accused of rape? Or murder? If he's convicted, he gets locked up, strip searched and has his goods seized.

    EVERYBODY has the potential to completely destroy someone else's life with a lie. Not just the police.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  28. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    No. A shopkeeper is not allowed to restrain you, threaten you with pain/torture/death if you do not comply, strip search you, lock you in a cage, or take you away. Now, that may happen...but that's one messed up shopkeeper who will (hopefully) be arrested -> by the very police I think do a good service.

    You keep trying to equate normal citizens with police. The police are given broad, sweeping powers over the citizenry, and afforded gross protections even when they overstep their bounds.

    My comment about pain/torture/death when you are restrained: are you allowed to put an armlock on a shopkeeper if you think he's lying about being out of beans? Police can do that when the "arrest" you. Grounds for arrest? Anything they want. I was detained for not wearing a seatbelt. I was. I always have. The state trooper lied. He pulled me over...because he could. Maybe he thought I was someone else. Shrug.

    My son was gang-tackled, at 17, by 6 state troopers. (He flipped them the bird after he was released at a check point. No, I did not raise him to be disrespectful.) So, there they are, gang-tackling him. My other son filmed it. The one trooper kept yelling, "Stop resisting!". There was no resistance when 6 guys have you pinned, spread-eagle, on the asphalt. My other son's phone was taken and the film deleted. The charge for the first one was, as you guessed, resisting arrest. Nice lie. Now there's a record on file against him. Can a shopkeeper's lie do that?

    Now, no-one likes having the bird flipped at them, but this was clearly an abuse of power. This type of action ("we're the toughest gang on the block") is typical. My beer-drinking, poker-playing, paintball in the woods buddies are all cops.

    Back to pain/torture/death: Armlocks, pressure points, etc, to force "compliance" are standard. So is taser use. If I handcuffed you and then tasered you, would you not think that torture? And, of course, death. Police are given latitude to shoot first and ask questions later. "I thought he was reaching for a gun."

    It'd be interesting if I had the same standards applied to my behavior.

    So, when police lie, it is FAR different than when someone else lies, like Blasey Ford.
     
  29. Creig

    Creig Gawd

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    We don't know the whole story here, only your side.

    No, it isn't typical. At least it isn't in most of the country. Maybe you live in an area where the police are constantly in danger of their lives on a daily basis. I try to steer clear of places like that. And if I did need to visit such an area, I would be VERY careful not to provoke law enforcement officials.

    Again, those kinds of scenarios are highly non-typical. I am in much greater danger of being shot by a member of the public trying to rob me than I am by the police. Even though I live in a pretty relaxed area, the times I have been pulled over I rolled down my window and kept both hands on the steering wheel while the officer approached. I maintained eye contact and followed his/her directions. And not once was I tasered, handcuffed, tortured or killed.
     
  30. Guarana [BAWLS]

    Guarana [BAWLS] [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,771
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2001
    So the video where multiple people who weren't on drugs or alcohol, and passed blood tests were put in jail for DUI and spent months and thousands of dollars fighting to clear their record werre breaking the law somewhere?
     
    c3k likes this.
  31. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,127
    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Some people can only hold one view, you have to be extreme for or extreme against something, you are not allowed to support the general idea (LEO's) and call out it's issues for improvement (corrupt, bad training, bad programs) at the same time for some reason.
     
    Guarana [BAWLS] likes this.
  32. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,213
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Get back on topic or this thread will be closed.