Creating the PC Equivalent of the $500 Xbox One X Is Trickier Than You Might Guess

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Some say that the Xbox One X is actually a great deal at $499. PCWorld added credibility to that theory when they tried to build an equivalent system for the same amount of money, but couldn’t: something that really drives the price up is the XOX’s 4K UHD drive, which results in a build far north of the console’s price at $944. And even foregoing that part, the cheapest system they could manage was $652. Mike Ybarra, Xbox’s Corporate Vice President, recently compared the XOX to a $1500 PC.

    For the moment, Microsoft’s created a machine that the DIY PC crowd can’t currently match—not when you try to copy both its feature set and cost at the same time, at least. The 4K UHD Blu-Ray disc drive really throws a wrench into this build challenge, and even without it, the Xbox One X holds its own. This situation might be a first, given how often PC gamers tout benefits that console fans miss out on. Still, it’s not a complete victory for the Xbox One X. PC gaming doesn’t require an optical drive, after all, so you can enjoy 4K gaming, 4K video content, and HDR through digital downloads.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  2. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    people will still try to complain about it being over priced
     
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  3. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I assumed it was being sold at a loss, though people on [H], of course, argued it wasn't. But a $1500 pc? Probably not.
     
  4. Denpepe

    Denpepe Limp Gawd

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    I have to say my interest dropped somewhat, I would be more interested if it was 100 € less, I would be even more interested if they had 2-3 exclusive games that I'm actually interested in.

    The "we signed a few exlusive games recently but you wont be able to play those for the next 2-3 years so we will not announce those just yet" statement did not help to sell me one either.
     
  5. Wolfkin

    Wolfkin [H]ard|Gawd

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    No doubt you get a great value in hardware for the $500 price, but on the other hand we all know Microsoft will be selling these at a loss.

    I wonder how a comparison would play out if we knew the true dollar value of the hardware in the Xbox One X though.
     
  6. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I expect if you order the components by the hundred thousand then prices drop remarkably.
     
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  7. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    The PC equivalent of the hardware in that machine does not cost 1500$, it's not even close. I very much doubt it's even 500$. That doesn't mean it's bad value as you're paying for more than hardware, but it does mean that statement is horseshit. Would take anyone about 15 minutes on Newegg/Amazon to figure that one out for themselves.
     
  8. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think you slightly missed the point. Many people try to argue that $500 is a rip off and that for $500 you could build a computer that will far out perform the Xbox One X. The point is that it would cost any of us more than $500 to build a computer with the same hardware specs. So any thought that they are charging you 2 or 3 times what a computer would cost that would give you the same level of performance is crazy.
     
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  9. Snowdensjacket

    Snowdensjacket [H]Lite

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    Who here would ever build a computer for only $500?
     
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  10. dgz

    dgz 2[H]4U

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    Not every build is a gaming build
     
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  11. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis [H]ard|Gawd

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    And yet many games are still capped at 30fps so who cares how powerful it is?
     
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  12. Cmdrmonkey

    Cmdrmonkey Gawd

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    Challenge accepted:

    Used Core i5 (Sandy Bridge or later) based Dell Optiplex or Lenovo Thinkcentre = $50 to $150 depending on specs and where purchased.
    8GB RX 480 or 580 = $200 to $250
    Total = $250 (best case) to $400 (worst case)

    Physical media is dead/dying, so no need for an expensive 4K BR player that will likely never be used.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  13. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky [H]ard|Gawd

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    I accept your challenge for you to prove your point. You won't come close.
     
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  14. greenman

    greenman Limp Gawd

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    Sure, initially $500 is a steal.
    In 1 year or sometime in the near future, a PC will be able to do more than the XOX. This is when XOX will focus more on more games and quality or just exclusive games.

    This happens with every system.. In the end a PC is still the winner because you can upgrade it and do more things on it rather than game and media.
     
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  15. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

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    UHD blu-ray player the OS would eat 200 bucks off your 500 dollar idea. So 300 for cpu, gpu, ram, mobo, psu, hdd, case, keyboard and mouse. But sure let's pretend like for 500 dollars you can get equivalent usage out of a computer.
     
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  16. tetris42

    tetris42 2[H]4U

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    I don't think you're going to build a $500 PC that will "far" outperform the Xbox One X without a big compromise. When you consider optimizations, you probably need a little more power anyway. The main argument against it is $500 on a PC gaming machine is a better investment since you can do more with it, have access to more games, the games are cheaper if you buy during sales, etc. $500 on an Xbox is more of a dead end unless there's an exclusive on it that you're dying to play or are starting from scratch on a gaming or living room PC, etc.
     
  17. MV75

    MV75 Gawd

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    You're very close there, the pc is already the winner and can already do more. This is all bullshit, Let us know when you can upgrade that console without having to buy an entirely new one, and also when you can well, do whatever the hell you want with it.
     
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  18. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    So, XboneX is a really expensive UHD Bluray player? Got it.
     
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  19. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardness Supreme

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    and the dumb dumb baby award goes to...
     
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  20. Semantics

    Semantics 2[H]4U

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    With consoles being able to browse the web, work with social media and hook up to keyboards etc, i'm surprised i don't know of any productivity apps on them, a word processor and bam you have a slightly gimped computer for 99% of the populace. Considering most people would be happy with a computer that can't do anything more than watch movies, surf the web, work with online calling/messaging and do simple work tasks like typing something up.
     
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  21. tetris42

    tetris42 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, no. How about this:

    -CPU with 8 threads that has similar performance
    -At least 12GB of RAM
    -A GPU that exceeds 6TFlops of performance to account for optimization on the console end
    -cost of OS
    -A power supply that's not so cheap it won't die after 2 months
    -A motherboard
    -A case
    -No used parts or special rebate shit

    I kind of agree with you on the Blu-ray player, but the Xbox does include one, so may as well factor that in. Then you'll have a more honest comparison. Hint: you're not going to win pricing the raw hardware. The savings on PC come from how much cheaper the games cost over time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  22. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    First of all, WHY DA FCK would you want to and second, who cares.

    These are the stupidest questions that often get asked and they are fundamentally flawed from the get-go. I swear earth is populated with at least a few billion people with out common sense.

    Someone tell these idiots that you can't build one because Microsoft gets dealer / wholesale / manufacture pricing that the public would never get. There, they have their answer, case closed.
     
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  23. dinmaster613

    dinmaster613 n00bie

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    well considering microsoft is getting volume discounts i would say the amounts posted are on par. if you take the 500 for the console and were only building one, im sure the price would be higher. same in reverse, if i built that pc 100,000qty then im sure i would get volume discount on parts and easily make that price...
     
  24. Bigdady92

    Bigdady92 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Doesn't play modern games at 4k so your build fails.
     
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  25. MikeTrike

    MikeTrike [H]ardness Supreme

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  26. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Another thing, it's not just the console, it's the tax, the extra controller and game(s)

    You have to look at the big picture and take those items / tax into account as well. So in reality you should have a budget of $620. $620 is what anyone who buys an Xbox One X is going to spend at the very least.

    And trust me I can build a Xbox One X killer for $620 dollars. PC Games? Dirt cheap or free depending on your moral compass.
     
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  27. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    It has about equivalent HW prowess, so if it can't play 4K games, then XboxX is mostly doing it through tricks like the PS4 pro does.
     
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  28. KarsusTG

    KarsusTG 2[H]4U

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    This almost cost me a beer... touche sir!
     
  29. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Actually you can use guides out there that will allow you to play 4k or close to it at 60fps on a 1060. Don't believe me go look.
     
  30. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    Seriously not concerned about that disk drive, at all, even a little bit. And I suspect most everyone else isn't either. The adoption rate of things like Netflix shows a pretty good track record of that, plus lets be honest, he's not talking about the drive, he's talking about the power of it, it's horeshit.
     
  31. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    I'll keep that in mind when we see exactly how it really performs not in staged highlights, there has NEVER been a case where console was better value from a hardware standpoint, I seriously doubt it will be this time, either, when it comes out and shows it's colors.
     
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  32. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    They're oblivious to the fact it's been done for over a decade, they don't make miracles, they make convenience, which is value granted, but it's not because it performs.
     
  33. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And you couldn't build one at that price if you got it at their price. The markup on most computer hardware is fairly small. They're certainly not marked up 50%+

    I get it. You look at a 128kbs lossy file and say, that sounds good enough. Others want something more than OK.
    UHD is better than Blu Ray and Blu Ray is better than Netflix. Netflix is convenient and they have some nice content, but let's not pretend that it's the same quality, because it's not.
     
  34. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    Neither does Xbox technically speaking, in most cases it uses rendering techniques to make it happen none of which are as good as true full 4k play. And using any of those things will make a 480 smash it, in games that do NOT, they either run much lower settings the 480 can do better or they are very undemanding to begin with.
     
  35. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Which is a return to form as the Xbox One / PS4 originals were the first to not be sold at a massive loss in a long while. Instead of more power this time around they bundled the Kinect.

    I think MS was losing $200ish on the Xbox360 (before you factor in the RROD expenditures) at launch. They made it up in XBLive / Games / accessories.

    Microsoft has had a different revenue stream compared to Sony as MS charges for multiplayer via Xbox Live (Sony may now too? Don't know). So if the consoles aren't in very many homes, it directly impacts their XBLive revenue. They can afford to take a loss per unit as long as it's appealing enough to be selected over the competition's offering, which the original XB1 wasn't.
     
  36. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    They are the minority, again it holds little value, I don't even watch shows, so it's even less relevant to me, so nice assumption but yet again you're putting your foot in your mouth. Streaming is the fastest growing way of watching media, end.
     
  37. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    Oh forgot to mention there is even less content made at that resolution anyways, and upscaling doesn't count.
     
  38. Bigshrimp

    Bigshrimp Limp Gawd

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    $500 is not bad for current 4k hardware and horsepower. I would pay for it, if I didn't already have that on my PC.
     
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  39. Brackle

    Brackle Old Timer

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    you guys have to remember something. When we the PC gamers think of playing at 4k, we think of 4k60fps.

    That xbox X is going to run it in 4k30fps.....

    So I mean the question is can the 480 RX play games at 4k30fps? on what medium/high settings?
     
  40. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Neither does XboneX so XboneX fails. If you mean 4k ultra of course. If you are willing to drop settings then rx580 can play at 4k just fine.
    2012 Sandy Bridge quad core probably has more performance.
     
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