CPU Cooler Performance

mayhem147

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I have a i5-11400F CPU installed on a VisionD Z590i MB. Because I have a slimline case the bigest CPU cooler I could get is the Asaka AK-CCE-7101CP which is designed for use with CPU's up to 95W. The TDP of the 11400F is 65W. The CPU average temperatue is 38 deg C when my computer is at idle and the doesn't get too high when I run most of my applications. However if I use the CPU for rendering (I use Blander) after 5 minutes the temperature got up to 100 deg C (At this point I cancelled the render).

My question - should this cooler be able to keep my CPU at a normal temperature while rendering?
 
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Deleted member 289973

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Your cooler is substantially insufficient if it is not keeping CPU temps under control while rendering. That Akasa looks pretty cheap to be honest. If you have a slim case, your best bet would be something like a Scythe Big Shuriken 3, Arctic Alpine, or Be Quiet Shadow Rock to think of a few. The other thing would be to make sure your thermal compound is applied correctly and sufficiently.
 

BlindedByScience

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Might look at the Noctua NH-U9S. Just put one in my AMD build, really working out well. Only 125mm tall. Depends on how slim your slimline case is..... Another one that should fit is the Noctua NH-L9i....
 

mayhem147

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Your cooler is substantially insufficient if it is not keeping CPU temps under control while rendering. That Akasa looks pretty cheap to be honest. If you have a slim case, your best bet would be something like a Scythe Big Shuriken 3, Arctic Alpine, or Be Quiet Shadow Rock to think of a few. The other thing would be to make sure your thermal compound is applied correctly and sufficiently.
I just did some more research and found out the 11400F can consume upto 205w. So I definately need a better cooler and probably a bigger case :(
 
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Deleted member 289973

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I just did some more research and found out the 11400F can consume upto 205w. So I definately need a better cooler and probably a bigger case :(
The 11400F cannot consume 205w. I have no idea where you'd be getting that number from. But yeah, a better cooler would be a necessity and a bigger case would help you fit a wider range of coolers. But if you're not overclocking (Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it only K models of Intel CPUs that can be overclocked? I use AMD Ryzen myself and all Ryzens can be OC'd out of the box.) then even one of the best lower-profile coolers should be sufficient unless your case also has very restricted airflow.
 

kirbyrj

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Are you sure your Asaka HSF is mounted correctly (all the pins correctly seated on the corners)? Is your motherboard overriding the PL1/PL2 limits? In reality, that CPU should be fine even with that HSF if it was staying at a sustained 65W load.
 

mayhem147

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The 11400F cannot consume 205w. I have no idea where you'd be getting that number from. But yeah, a better cooler would be a necessity and a bigger case would help you fit a wider range of coolers. But if you're not overclocking (Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it only K models of Intel CPUs that can be overclocked? I use AMD Ryzen myself and all Ryzens can be OC'd out of the box.) then even one of the best lower-profile coolers should be sufficient unless your case also has very restricted airflow.
This is where I got the info on 11400F power consumption: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/20.html
 
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Deleted member 289973

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This is where I got the info on 11400F power consumption: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/20.html
Interesting. I'll stand corrected! Intel CPUs have a tendency to go over TDP but seeing values triple to even quadruple the rated TDP still seems a bit far fetched. But I read a couple good articles explaining how Intel defines their TDP, how all the boost clocks and everything add up to push actual power consumption, etc. It's quite interesting for someone who is not used to newer Intel stuff. Last Intel CPU I had was an i5-6500 and I never messed around with any of the settings, stats, or even paid much attention to anything beyond temperature. I had a good Cryorig cooler that kept the temps below 75 C under max load.

Now to the coolers: you'll need one that can handle the maximum power output you'll expect to push the CPU to. If a CPU is drawing 65W, a 65W cooler will cool it sufficiently. That doesn't mean to ambient, a delta, or any specific fixed numerical value, but enough to keep the CPU within the recommended operating temperatures. If you're drawing, say 150W and your cooler is only capable of handling 65W, obviously the math is that the CPU will not cool sufficiently and will continue to heat up until you get throttled, shut down, or in a worst-case scenario, thermal damage to the hardware. The numbers aren't always exact, and the rating system is said to be flawed by some, but it's a good rule of thumb for a start. Other factors such as case airflow, ambient temperatures, and indirect heat such as from a GPU rising up over the CPU/MB can affect it some as well. I always recommend to get more than enough so a little overhead allows for a buffer due to imperfect math, other factors, and such.
 

mayhem147

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Interesting. I'll stand corrected! Intel CPUs have a tendency to go over TDP but seeing values triple to even quadruple the rated TDP still seems a bit far fetched. But I read a couple good articles explaining how Intel defines their TDP, how all the boost clocks and everything add up to push actual power consumption, etc. It's quite interesting for someone who is not used to newer Intel stuff. Last Intel CPU I had was an i5-6500 and I never messed around with any of the settings, stats, or even paid much attention to anything beyond temperature. I had a good Cryorig cooler that kept the temps below 75 C under max load.

Now to the coolers: you'll need one that can handle the maximum power output you'll expect to push the CPU to. If a CPU is drawing 65W, a 65W cooler will cool it sufficiently. That doesn't mean to ambient, a delta, or any specific fixed numerical value, but enough to keep the CPU within the recommended operating temperatures. If you're drawing, say 150W and your cooler is only capable of handling 65W, obviously the math is that the CPU will not cool sufficiently and will continue to heat up until you get throttled, shut down, or in a worst-case scenario, thermal damage to the hardware. The numbers aren't always exact, and the rating system is said to be flawed by some, but it's a good rule of thumb for a start. Other factors such as case airflow, ambient temperatures, and indirect heat such as from a GPU rising up over the CPU/MB can affect it some as well. I always recommend to get more than enough so a little overhead allows for a buffer due to imperfect math, other factors, and such.
Thanks Jon. I also thought when I was picking my parts that a 65w TDP CPU would be fine with a 95w rated cpu cooler. Maybe I will remove the cooler and install the spare Arctic cooler I have. I wont be able to shut the case be at least I will have a comparison. Cheers.
 

mayhem147

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What's the arctic cooler you have?
An Alpine 11 Rev 2. I had it for years but never used it before. Just took the old cooler out and as kirbyrj suggested (i think) one half of one of the cooler locating pins had bent over.So my cooler would not have been sitting on the CPU correctly (although it appeared solid and didn't move). I've still installed the Artic 11 for now. Temperatures are definately better now (as you would expect). After 5+ minutes of rendering with Blender my CPU temp is still getting up to 90 deg C. So if I want to use my CPU as well as my GPU for rendering in Blender I will need another cooling solution and probably another case (as my case will only alllow a 60mm tall cooler). I'd better start saving. (y)
 

mayhem147

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Are you sure your Asaka HSF is mounted correctly (all the pins correctly seated on the corners)? Is your motherboard overriding the PL1/PL2 limits? In reality, that CPU should be fine even with that HSF if it was staying at a sustained 65W load.
You were right, one half of one of the cooler locating pins was bent over (y)
 
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Deleted member 289973

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An Alpine 11 Rev 2. I had it for years but never used it before. Just took the old cooler out and as kirbyrj suggested (i think) one half of one of the cooler locating pins had bent over.So my cooler would not have been sitting on the CPU correctly (although it appeared solid and didn't move). I've still installed the Artic 11 for now. Temperatures are definately better now (as you would expect). After 5+ minutes of rendering with Blender my CPU temp is still getting up to 90 deg C. So if I want to use my CPU as well as my GPU for rendering in Blender I will need another cooling solution and probably another case (as my case will only alllow a 60mm tall cooler). I'd better start saving. (y)
What kind of case do you have that it allows only a 60mm cooler? And do you have a mITX board?
I'm still stunned to see an i5 pulling over 200W. Another day, another interesting something learned on [H]! But that doesn't necessarily mean yours actually is during the render (maybe check and see exactly the loading and power draw with CPU-Z if you haven't?) and 90 degrees C is completely safe for the CPU. If you're looking for optimal cooling, especially if your GPU is hot as well, a different case would be the way to go. If your GPU temps are satisfactory, you probably just need a better cooler than that Asaka, and preferably one where you can actually close the case after you install it🤠
 

mayhem147

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I bailed out at 90 degrees C as the temperature was clearing going up a few degrees every minute.
My case is a Fractal Design Node 202 Mini-Itx Case and I have a Gigabyte Vision D Z590i mobo. To save money I was using the case ram and PSU from my last setup. However it alwasy ends up costing more than you plan .:LOL:
 
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I bailed out at 90 degrees C as the temperature was clearing going up a few degrees every minute.
My case is a Fractal Design Node 202 Mini-Itx Case and I have a Gigabyte Vision D Z590i mobo. To save money I was using the case ram and PSU from my last setup. However it alwasy ends up costing more than you plan .:LOL:
I like Fractal's cases but the Node 202 is probably the worst Fractal case you could put a powerhouse system in. Way too often people want an ITX build as small as they can get and then have trouble with very high CPU and/or GPU temps. In my experience one is okay and the other is extremely high depending on configuration and airflow, but some setups are so powerful and the case so inadequate that both temps are way higher than they should be.
If you want my honest opinion, you need a different case but you can stick with ITX. I had the Node 304 and I loved it. It's much bigger, but still technically SFF at just over 19L. It can fit a full-sized CPU cooler up to 165mm, and airflow is quite good for an ITX case with little mesh. My first ITX build was in the Node 304 with an i5-6500 and Cryorig M9i cooler and my CPU temps were in the low 70s maximum. GPU got into the 80s running hard, still very acceptable for a SFF system. I'd highly recommend you check it out, because that 202 isn't going to do you any favors for a performance build. Those ultra-slim cases are best for HTPCs that don't get used for much beyond media viewing, web surfing, and maybe some modest gaming.
 

ncjoe

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in your bios do you have a cpu cooler tuning setting ? like on my msi z590 board?
 

mayhem147

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I like Fractal's cases but the Node 202 is probably the worst Fractal case you could put a powerhouse system in. Way too often people want an ITX build as small as they can get and then have trouble with very high CPU and/or GPU temps. In my experience one is okay and the other is extremely high depending on configuration and airflow, but some setups are so powerful and the case so inadequate that both temps are way higher than they should be.
If you want my honest opinion, you need a different case but you can stick with ITX. I had the Node 304 and I loved it. It's much bigger, but still technically SFF at just over 19L. It can fit a full-sized CPU cooler up to 165mm, and airflow is quite good for an ITX case with little mesh. My first ITX build was in the Node 304 with an i5-6500 and Cryorig M9i cooler and my CPU temps were in the low 70s maximum. GPU got into the 80s running hard, still very acceptable for a SFF system. I'd highly recommend you check it out, because that 202 isn't going to do you any favors for a performance build. Those ultra-slim cases are best for HTPCs that don't get used for much beyond media viewing, web surfing, and maybe some modest gaming.
Yes I really like the Fractal Design cases. I was looking at the Torrent Nano although I wouldn't want a glass side panel and the colored fans. My workaround for now is to use Lasso to reduce the number of cores available to Blender, so reducing performance a little but keeping the heat manageable.
 

mayhem147

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in your bios do you have a cpu cooler tuning setting ? like on my msi z590 board?
Hi, my board is a z590i so has the same features. I was aware that I can change the CPU fan profile. Is there another setting?
 
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Yes I really like the Fractal Design cases. I was looking at the Torrent Nano although I wouldn't want a glass side panel and the colored fans. My workaround for now is to use Lasso to reduce the number of cores available to Blender, so reducing performance a little but keeping the heat manageable.
The Torrent Nano is a pretty good case, although it's fairly large for an ITX case. (For its size, I was disappointed it did not offer mATX support.) Fractal has an option for the Nano without RGB fans and with a metal side panel and it actually will save you a few bucks. It can fit a full sized CPU cooler up to 165mm, and the 180mm fan can be switched out to two 140s for slightly boosted intake.
If you are okay with that then the Torrent Nano is an excellent choice. If you want something SFF still then go with the Node 304.
 
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My case can only take a 60mm CPU cooler. I went for the Thermalright AXP-90 X47 Full Cooper in the end. I hope it will fit.
That cooler is 47mm tall so you should have no problem fitting it. Expect an improvement in cooling but keep in mind you're only going to get so much relief while still running a powerful system in such a small case. Don't be surprised if temps aren't a whole lot lower, and if you're still not pleased, a different case will be imperative.
 

mayhem147

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That cooler is 47mm tall so you should have no problem fitting it. Expect an improvement in cooling but keep in mind you're only going to get so much relief while still running a powerful system in such a small case. Don't be surprised if temps aren't a whole lot lower, and if you're still not pleased, a different case will be imperative.
The new CPU cooler is a lot better. I have been rendering the same blender animation as a way to compare. The old cooler with 2 of 6 CPU cores disbled I was getting up to 95 deg C. The new cooler kept the temperature below 65 deg C. With all 6 cores 72 deg C. Will change when I close my case I know. Still a big improvement. Maybe I'll get myself a new case for Chrismas. After getting the tape measure out I agree the Torrent Nano is way to big. The Node 304 case you suggested is perfect. One thing, does the Node 304 have a GPU riser or is there space for the GPU to slot straight into the MB?
 

pendragon1

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why not get a proper sized case and proper sized cooling and let you chip run to its full potential...
no riser in the 304, where would it go to!? the gpu plugs into the board like normal.
1657293563720.png
 
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The new CPU cooler is a lot better. I have been rendering the same blender animation as a way to compare. The old cooler with 2 of 6 CPU cores disbled I was getting up to 95 deg C. The new cooler kept the temperature below 65 deg C. With all 6 cores 72 deg C. Will change when I close my case I know. Still a big improvement. Maybe I'll get myself a new case for Chrismas. After getting the tape measure out I agree the Torrent Nano is way to big. The Node 304 case you suggested is perfect. One thing, does the Node 304 have a GPU riser or is there space for the GPU to slot straight into the MB?
72 C with the new cooler is excellent. The Node 304 allows the GPU to slot straight into the MB, but there are some restrictions to the GPU, none of which are particularly onerous but you have to plan for GPU accommodation. Max card width is 45mm, a good length limit of 310mm but you need to remove one of the HDD brackets so you're limited to four instead of six. And your PSU cannot be longer than 160mm or it will conflict with the card.
 
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why not get a proper sized case and proper sized cooling and let you chip run to its full potential...
no riser in the 304, where would it go to!? the gpu plugs into the board like normal.
View attachment 490118
I think if limited to SFF/ITX, the Node 304 is a good option. I had one of these and cooling is very good. In my build, my CPU temps never got above the low 70s running an i5-6500 with a Cryorig M9i, GPU temps on a Rog Strix 970 reached into the low-mid 80s if I ran the card at full load. Yes, going larger would be better, but if OP is limited to SFF then this is probably about the best option available.

If there's enough space, the Node 804 has better GPU support, even more room for fans (up to ten total), 160mm CPU cooler height, and mATX board compatibility. Might give that a shot if you can fit it. It is much bigger than the 304 though.
 

chameleoneel

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Be Quiert Shadow Rock LP should fit, with a low profile fan. Such as the Thermalright TL-C12015B.
 

chameleoneel

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but a new case...
the n14 will probably beat a 120, maybe...

U14S is a 140mm slim tower. and its pretty efficient. Its what Techpowerup uses as their standard cooler for temp testing.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/21.html

It would probably be a little better than a 120mm AIO. Unless maybe you had a really good AIO like an EK and then put an excellent fan on it, like the Phanteks T30.

This is where I got the info on 11400F power consumption: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/20.html
You need to keep in mind, this is TOTALL SYSTEM power consumption. Not just the CPU.
 
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