Cowboy Beebop live action at Netflix!

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Armenius said:
Dubs are getting worse by the year as translators take the liberty to rewrite characters and stories in their translations. In years prior it was understandable the choices they made to fit the animation of the mouths, but now they are all going fully Tumblr on the medium. Unfortunately it has also seeped into the subtitles now. Fan subtitles are back to being the only way to go these days.
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I found another reason to hate dubs recently. Other than I love my Japanese voice actors. My avatar show who I like. I saw a clip on Youtube of Island episode 12 in English. The main girl Rinne was singing in the kitchen in Japanese and then switches over to English for the audio, It just pissed me off. Also the fact than I would rather listen to Tamura Yukari.
 
Axman said:
And it's not like CG animation can't be done well, either. Futurama set the stage for mainstream 3D animation and it's still one of the best animated series ever. Best ever in general, and I can prove it with two words:

Fry's dog.
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zehoo said:
Faye should have been a femme fatale choice instead of a homely choice.
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Daniella Pineda is homely??? Have you done an image search on her?!

She's about as close a real life face match as you could get. And is otherwise.....very attractive.

people seem real stuck on the default costume change from.....teensy crop top and shorts. In your mention of "Femme Fatale" --- crop tops are not symbols of a Femme Fatale. Writing and acting should take care of that, 100%.
While I don't think its important----there could very well be storylines which see her wearing other clothing or less clothing. But If I think back to an extremely effective, modern Femme Fatale: Xenia Onatopp wore tasteful fashion or functional gear and uniforms. Had one bathhouse scene in a towel.
 
Axman said:
And it's not like CG animation can't be done well, either. Futurama set the stage for mainstream 3D animation and it's still one of the best animated series ever. Best ever in general, and I can prove it with two words:

Fry's dog.
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Part of the problem is that Japan studios are animating 3D like they used to animate in 2D, and like going from animation to live action, there is a medium change between 3D and 2D.

Aside from the obvious cost of replicating a 2D scene in live action, 2D has the most flexibility when it comes to editing space and time, reduced visual information allows the brain to *process what is presented on screen in a shorter period.

With 3D the current issue (imo) is that studios are animating them like their 2D counter parts, rather than taking advantage of the 3D medium. For example they often leave the background static (as in 2D animation to make moving background creates a lot of work for the animators, so even when they are moving its usually reduced movement or a simplified image). Anime studios also generally fail to take advantage of the fact that the Camera and actors can be freed in a 3D animation, allowing for more stunning scenes and interesting edits. However this is all at the expense of the space and time of traditional 2D animation.

Honestly, your 3D example is dated, the singularly best 3D animated show I have seen recently, and it stands out well above the rest, is Spiderman Into the Spider Verse. What an amazing visual tour de force.
 
chameleoneel said:
Writing and acting should take care of that, 100%.
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Spike doesn't look like Spike, Faye doesn't look like Faye, and Jet doesn't look like Jet. We haven't even seen Ed. Their reaction to fans has spoken volumes.

Aireoth said:
Honestly, your 3D example is dated,
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I picked it because it was the first to do it mainstream and do it well, in order to make the argument that it's nothing new.
 
chameleoneel said:
people seem real stuck on the default costume change from.....teensy crop top and shorts. In your mention of "Femme Fatale" --- crop tops are not symbols of a Femme Fatale.
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The costume was always going to change to be less risqué, I've got no issue with that. Though the design itself is quite average.

chameleoneel said:
Daniella Pineda is homely??? Have you done an image search on her?!
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I should have been more specific in that she's not a slim 13/10 that can pretty much get away with whatever she does since men will put up with almost anything for a chance with her. Daniella while having her own charms (I quite like homely girls), can not pull off Faye. But then of course, tastes are subjective.
 
zehoo said:
The costume was always going to change to be less risqué, I've got no issue with that. Though the design itself is quite average.


I should have been more specific in that she's not a slim 13/10 that can pretty much get away with whatever she does since men will put up with almost anything for a chance with her. Daniella while having her own charms (I quite like homely girls), can not pull off Faye. But then of course, tastes are subjective.
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Your insistence on describing Daniella as "homely" is at odds with any position you might claim as a fan, to be critical of Netflix direction for the live action show.
 
chameleoneel said:
Daniella Pineda is homely??? Have you done an image search on her?!
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I wouldn't call her ugly, but she's not so attractive that guys would put up with anything she does just to get a chance at sniffing the same air as her.
chameleoneel said:
She's about as close a real life face match as you could get. And is otherwise.....very attractive.
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This is debatable and the second part is subjective. I don't think she's ugly either. But there are a lot better looking women out there that look more like the character does in animation. Google "Faye Valentine cosplay" and you'll see them in droves. However, I understand you can't use those women for a TV show necessarily as acting is a skill and not everyone has the talent or experience for a role requiring the range of emotions that the character has in the source material.
chameleoneel said:
people seem real stuck on the default costume change from.....teensy crop top and shorts. In your mention of "Femme Fatale" --- crop tops are not symbols of a Femme Fatale. Writing and acting should take care of that, 100%.
While I don't think its important----there could very well be storylines which see her wearing other clothing or less clothing. But If I think back to an extremely effective, modern Femme Fatale: Xenia Onatopp wore tasteful fashion or functional gear and uniforms. Had one bathhouse scene in a towel.
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Super hot women tend to dress provocatively in order to get men or sometimes both men and women to do whatever they want. This is done out of convenience, laziness, narcissism or just plain old fashioned personal gain. Attractive and scantily clad women are disarming and underestimated as threats. Faye is a lazy character often dressing provocatively for precisely those reasons. She's attractive and she knows it. I figured they would make a costume for her in the live action that was a bit more practical, while still conveying this aspect of the character's personality. Instead, there is nothing attractive about the outfit and the actress's look doesn't really capture the essence of the character.

I think we all know that live action is very different from animation. I think people are generally accepting of that given that our super heroes are never good matches for their comic book counterparts in size, beauty or whatever. However, the trick is getting a actor that embodies the basic design and styling of the character so that they are recognizable even when they are more realistically dressed or proportioned. In both casting and costume, I think that they've done a relatively poor job with what I've seen of this show so far.
 
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Ed's going to end up being some brain uploaded into AI format at this rate.
 
Maybe we all got it wrong and Daniella Pineda is actually playing Anastasia?
 
Dan_D said:
I wouldn't call her ugly, but she's not so attractive that guys would put up with anything she does just to get a chance at sniffing the same air as her.

This is debatable and the second part is subjective. I don't think she's ugly either. But there are a lot better looking women out there that look more like the character does in animation. Google "Faye Valentine cosplay" and you'll see them in droves. However, I understand you can't use those women for a TV show necessarily as acting is a skill and not everyone has the talent or experience for a role requiring the range of emotions that the character has in the source material.

Super hot women tend to dress provocatively in order to get men or sometimes both men and women to do whatever they want. This is done out of convenience, laziness, narcissism or just plain old fashioned personal gain. Attractive and scantily clad women are disarming and underestimated as threats. Faye is a lazy character often dressing provocatively for precisely those reasons. She's attractive and she knows it. I figured they would make a costume for her in the live action that was a bit more practical, while still conveying this aspect of the character's personality. Instead, there is nothing attractive about the outfit and the actress's look doesn't really capture the essence of the character.

I think we all know that live action is very different from animation. I think people are generally accepting of that given that our super heroes are never good matches for their comic book counterparts in size, beauty or whatever. However, the trick is getting a actor that embodies the basic design and styling of the character so that they are recognizable even when they are more realistically dressed or proportioned. In both casting and costume, I think that they've done a relatively poor job with what I've seen of this show so far.
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A. what this really comes down to for many, is that Daniella doesn't have large enough boobs. That may not exactly, directly, be the criticism here, on this forum. But at large around the internet, that is main point of contention.

B. looking at the cosplay only serves to visually underline why Netflix changed the costume. And in general, Daisy Dukes and a crop top probably aren't the visual message they want for the show's marketing.

C. She's otherwise attractive, the rest of her body is really similar, has naturally long and thin eyebrows like Faye, a very similar face shape, and eye/noise/mouth size and placement. She's also an exact height match. Its a stellar match, considering they chose an established actress.
About the only other thing she doesn't share with Faye, is that incredibly idealized look on Faye's brow line.

I understand your examination of Faye's character Vs. her costume. And its a good one. its clear the Netflix show is indeed reimagining her main costume at least, to be more stylish. There is still plenty of room for her characterization to otherwise be written and acted as someone whom uses her looks a lot. And I wouldn't doubt the actual show will have storylines like that. If it doesn't-----then I think some critical assessment from fans would be more valid. But at this point, is mostly insulting trash.
 
She looks way better than Scarlet Jo as Major Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell. What a mistake.
 
Axman said:
And it's not like CG animation can't be done well, either. Futurama set the stage for mainstream 3D animation and it's still one of the best animated series ever. Best ever in general, and I can prove it with two words:

Fry's dog.
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You had to bring Seymour into this? Life wasn't depressing enough already, like seriously...
 
chameleoneel said:
A. what this really comes down to for many, is that Daniella doesn't have large enough boobs. That may not exactly, directly, be the criticism here, on this forum. But at large around the internet, that is main point of contention.
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I'm sure there are plenty of people that are mad that she doesn't have huge tits that are going to be perpetually on display. To be fair, this is absolutely possible to achieve. I'm sure there is some actress somewhere that does who would have been a better physical match for the character than the current actress. I'd fuck up a casting couch porno, so I'm not the one to debate whether or not there is an actress out there with big enough boobs that would be as good an actor for the role and a better physical match that would entertain actually doing the series.

However, there is another group of people that get mad simply when something isn't a 100% identical translation of the source material. They get mad when the film differs from the book or a character doesn't look the way it does in comics in live action. They see a cosplayer get it right and assume that there is absolutely no reason why you can't do it in live action. The reality is, some random woman in her early 20's standing still and looking right is one thing. Finding a person who looks like they do in a comic book that can act, do stunts, etc. is a taller order than they realize. Even if you can line all of that up, there is the practicality of the outfit itself. You have to make the actors somewhat comfortable but you also have to hide their very real world flaws. Women get bloated badly about once a month. I know a model who has a perfectly flat stomach, but if she's at her time of the month and eats a big dinner, you can see a noticeable difference in her stomach. She dresses around that sort of thing when she needs to.

Actors film for several hours a day often for weeks or even months at a time. Human weight fluctuates and that's a fact of our biology. Beyond that, those outfits that you have in comics may work in static images or moving around slowly when a cosplayer does it but there is a huge difference between that and doing a TV show with action scenes. Running around set, doing action sequences, wearing the costume day in and day out, etc. Some designs are better than others but a lot of science fiction armors and costumes would be horrible to wear in the real world. Because they can't be made out of the most durable things for cost reasons, they often don't hold up under hard use either.
chameleoneel said:
B. looking at the cosplay only serves to visually underline why Netflix changed the costume. And in general, Daisy Dukes and a crop top probably aren't the visual message they want for the show's marketing.
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To be perfectly honest, I'm with the camp that doesn't give two shits what Netflix wants to do for its marketing. That being said, I understand that some changes would have been necessary for practicality reasons. I think you can make costumes evoke the basic look of the original while being a bit more practical. Marvel films have gotten much better about that over time proving it can be done. Scarlet Witch at the end of Wanda Vision is a good example of that. They even have her in a comic book accurate version of one of her best known outfits at one point. It looks ridiculous, but it's in there. At the end, you can see a more practical outfit that still has styling cues from the original costume design and I think that's perfectly acceptable.

There are people who again won't tolerate any deviation or any reasoning for differences. As far as I'm concerned, there would be no point to making a live action version of an anime if you weren't going to do something different with it. In my opinion, the best adaptations of these types of things keep the spirit of their original source material while evolving on their own into something different. In some cases, this could potentially lead to things being done better. Take the Guyver anime from 2005 for example. There are two changes to that story that deviates from the original Manga. However, the changes are improvements in my opinion. In that story, the Guyver 2 is killed within the second issue of the Manga. In the 2005 anime he lives for several episodes allowing his character and relationships to others to develop a bit more. Sure, that has a cascading effect on events but it's kept under control but it allows us to see Guyver 2 to meet and interact with characters he didn't originally.

To be perfectly honest, the character was good and he was wasted being killed off so early in the original Manga. The second change was the addition of another character who serves as kind of a body guard for the CEO of a corporation which is a front for the bad guys in the story. He's an interesting character and it provides a better segway towards additional content involving Guyver 2. These are minor changes and the story is realigned the way it appears in the Manga after episode 5 or 6. There is another change I almost forgot about and its kind of a negative, but its done in a way that's probably less confusing for audiences who aren't intimately familiar with the Manga. It's not a good change, but I understand why it was done.

The benefit to making an adaptation that does its own thing is that you can see characters you like in new situations and stories that you wouldn't have seen if the source material was copied scene by scene and panel by panel. The other negative about 100% faithful remakes is that they tend to fall flat as audiences are familiar with them. It invites certain comparisons which are almost always negative as some things in a faithful reproduction that switches from animation to live action won't translate well. Spike's hair would look ridiculous if perfectly accurate in live action. It's kind of ridiculous in the anime if I'm being honest, but you get the idea.
chameleoneel said:
C. She's otherwise attractive, the rest of her body is really similar, has naturally long and thin eyebrows like Faye, a very similar face shape, and eye/noise/mouth size and placement. She's also an exact height match. Its a stellar match, considering they chose an established actress.
About the only other thing she doesn't share with Faye, is that incredibly idealized look on Faye's brow line.
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Her face is. I'll give you that. But the actress doesn't have a slim build. She's not fat mind you, but she's got kind of a bulky frame judging by some of the pictures I've seen of her. Kind of like Gina Carano, she's not small. Faye in the anime had a super slender build with enormous breasts. This isn't a realistic proportion as women that are that thin and lacking in hips don't usually have large natural breasts if ever. It's partially the art style of the show though as most characters are extremely thin for some reason with only a few exceptions. Jet being one of them. I'm not super surprised that people aren't bitching more about Jet being recast as a black guy but instead whine about Faye not having giant tits and wearing next to nothing all the time.

One does get the impression the "You can't change anything" crowd are a bunch of basement dwellers with Waifu pillows that there moms probably have to wash far more regularly than should be needed if you know what I mean.
chameleoneel said:
I understand your examination of Faye's character Vs. her costume. And its a good one. its clear the Netflix show is indeed reimagining her main costume at least, to be more stylish. There is still plenty of room for her characterization to otherwise be written and acted as someone whom uses her looks a lot. And I wouldn't doubt the actual show will have storylines like that. If it doesn't-----then I think some critical assessment from fans would be more valid. But at this point, is mostly insulting trash.
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It's not stylish. That's kind of the point. I think they could have changed the outfit to something more practical while still keeping it more in line with the original. As for the rest, the actress may absolutely nail the character on screen. I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I'm not really familiar with any of these actors so I can't really see either way. Because of all the woketard crap that these media companies have been shoveling for the last five years or so, I don't have high hopes for the show. That being said, I'm very curious about how it will turn out. It's not encouraging that the creator of Cowboy Bebop has virtually no involvement in the show. When you do it that way, what made the source material work so well is often lost.

I'm a fan of the anime. In fact, I just watched it for the first time this last week. I had seen a couple episodes in passing years ago but really didn't get into it. I watched it now and I'm not a rabid fan of it or anything but I enjoyed it. But I'm far from the type to get bent out of shape by them changing things. As long as they stick to the spirit of the original and capture the essence of what made it work, I think they'll be fine. Unfortunately, it seems most of the writers are unable to figure out that sort of thing these days. Just look at Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars (most of it anyway), and the comic industry. What worked for decades has been threatened by "modern sensibilities". It includes hiring people for reasons beyond whether or not they are the best person for the job and it's pretty much turned everything into shit.
 
Dan_D said:
1. ....Her face is. I'll give you that. But the actress doesn't have a slim build. She's not fat mind you, but she's got kind of a bulky frame judging by some of the pictures I've seen of her. Kind of like Gina Carano, she's not small....

2. ...It's not stylish. That's kind of the point. I think they could have changed the outfit to something more practical while still keeping it more in line with the original....
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1. I suggest you look at a few more pics. I'm not going to post any here. Because I don't want this to devolve anymore into hyper specific body examination. Its already a bit too far, with specific descriptions, to which I will unfortunately add a bit more to, below.

The bikini pics of her around the internet from the "The Detour"----- those screen caps are from 2015/2016. I wouldn't have called her bulky, then. Especially not like Gina Carano. But nowadays, she's obviously been working on her body to. I would posit, due to higher profile roles. Jurassic Park. Leading role for Mercy Black. Other roles. Now Bebop, etc . There are plenty of pics of her in bikinis, tight dresses, dresses similar to stuff Faye has worn, etc.
She's 5'5" and probably about 117lbs.

Indeed, the art style of bebop would be real tough to exact match. Faye, while 5'5" also has a very small torso and lanky arms and legs. Daniella is more evenly proportioned body Vs. limbs. But Daniella also does not have huge wide set boobs, which make her waist and hips look relatively smaller.

2. I didn't mean like, objectively, literally, verifiably stylish in a classic or even a general fashion sense. I mean, in comparison to her Male cast mates. Spike in Netflix show, has a very smooth, well tailored, slick looking suit. Faye's new collared shirt and jacket, are obviously meant to echo that a bit. While still featuring a couple of other elements, which make it seem more like street fashion, like what a lot of girls would wear. See: leggings. Instead of a crop top, we have a smooth looking collared shirt, which still exposes her midriff. An also a nice leather jacket. and underneath a she is still essentially wearing daisy dukes. But they are black and set against some black leggings with some design pattern on them. It helps to dissolve the bold visual statement of the daisy dukes a bit. and the belts again help push that sort of street fashion idea. and also further breakup the visual impact of the daisy dukes.
 
ok, this is getting creepy now... unless chameleoneel is actually the actress, to which I'd just say "welcome, looking forward to the film, hope it's a success, etc..."
 
Youn said:
ok, this is getting creepy now... unless chameleoneel is actually the actress, to which I'd just say "welcome, looking forward to the film, hope it's a success, etc..."
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I'm not even sure how much in-depth analysis of the artistic stylings they've adopted even deserves all that much consideration. Fact of the matter is, they changed a bunch of stuff, fans were like, whoa what's all this then, and then they called their own audience incels.

So you know what direction they're coming from.
 
I bet if they do include Ed that the actor, the character, or both will be transgender.

At least we'll get more Yoko Kanno music...
 
I don't see how a live action adoption of Anime could be any worse than the Anime itself. :p

As far as I am concerned all manga and anime ever made is complete and utter trash, but to each their own I guess.

I've never heard of Cowboy Beebop, but googling it, it does seem reminiscent of FireFly.

Firefly wasn't bad. I had heard it referred to as a "space western" but I was certainly surprised when I finally saw it for the first time last year. My take was that it was too much western, not enough space.
 
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lol, they just announced theyre(same team) going to attempt a live action one piece. good luck.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
I don't see how a live action adoption of Anime could be any worse than the Anime itself. :p

As far as I am concerned all manga and anime ever made is complete and utter trash, but to each their own I guess.

I've never heard of Cowboy Beebop, but googling it, it does seem reminiscent of FireFly.

Firefly wasn't bad. I had heard it referred to as a "space western" but I was certainly surprised when I finally saw it for the first time last year. My take was that it was too much western, not enough space.
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Zarathustra[H] said:
I don't see how a live action adoption of Anime could be any worse than the Anime itself. :p

As far as I am concerned all manga and anime ever made is complete and utter trash, but to each their own I guess.

I've never heard of Cowboy Beebop, but googling it, it does seem reminiscent of FireFly.

Firefly wasn't bad. I had heard it referred to as a "space western" but I was certainly surprised when I finally saw it for the first time last year. My take was that it was too much western, not enough space.
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Why then would you post in this thread about a show you in haven't seen in a genre you dislike?
Agreed re Firefly having too much western and not enough space. That's part of why I liked Serenity because the western aspect was toned down/not quite so on the nose.
 
peppergomez said:
Why then would you post in this thread about a show you in haven't seen in a genre you dislike?
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In his defense, I used to hate anime and manga, but then I watched Cowboy Bebop and Trigun, even though I grew up on Voltron and Goldrake.

I also watched Neon Genesis Evangelion, Lain, and the Sakura Diaries, and realized that I could only promote Cowboy Bebop and Trigun...
 
peppergomez said:
Why then would you post in this thread about a show you in haven't seen in a genre you dislike?
Agreed re Firefly having too much western and not enough space. That's part of why I liked Serenity because the western aspect was toned down/not quite so on the nose.
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...and why post anime in a Tech News forum? :p

It may have come out wrong, but what I intended to get out was that while I have no interest in Anime, I'll give the live action version a try, as long as it isn't too anime-like.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
...and why post anime in a Tech News forum? :p

It may have come out wrong, but what I intended to get out was that while I have no interest in Anime, I'll give the live action version a try, as long as it isn't too anime-like.
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Do you just not like animated shows/movies? There are many genres of anime out there (just as many as normal TV shows or movies made in the US) along with several different art styles so there is likely some anime out there that you would enjoy. To be fair, there are plenty of shit anime's out there, but there are definitely many good ones too.

To be fair, I have low expectations of this because of there being so many shit live action ones done in the past, but I am open to being surprised if it turns out good.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I don't see how a live action adoption of Anime could be any worse than the Anime itself. :p

As far as I am concerned all manga and anime ever made is complete and utter trash, but to each their own I guess.

I've never heard of Cowboy Beebop, but googling it, it does seem reminiscent of FireFly.

Firefly wasn't bad. I had heard it referred to as a "space western" but I was certainly surprised when I finally saw it for the first time last year. My take was that it was too much western, not enough space.
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FIreflyWTF2.gif
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I don't see how a live action adoption of Anime could be any worse than the Anime itself. :p

As far as I am concerned all manga and anime ever made is complete and utter trash, but to each their own I guess.
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What do you base this statement on?
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
Do you just not like animated shows/movies? There are many genres of anime out there (just as many as normal TV shows or movies made in the US) along with several different art styles so there is likely some anime out there that you would enjoy. To be fair, there are plenty of shit anime's out there, but there are definitely many good ones too.

To be fair, I have low expectations of this because of there being so many shit live action ones done in the past, but I am open to being surprised if it turns out good.
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In the 90's i was curious and interested in Anime.

I watched Akira with a few friends. it was supposed to be the best Anime film ever, but it was the worst pile of shit I've ever seen. Completely disjointed and impossible to follow with no cohesive story arc. I wanted two hours of my life back, and this was when I was a teenager and time was so much less important to me than it is today.

Then in college my roommate was obsessed with Dragonballz. Oh my god was that shit awful. I can't believe anyone over age 12 would ever find that watchable.

In college I was also forcefully exposed to shine shit game series called Final Fantasy. The spikey haired nonsense was strong and utterly intolerable. Ive also been exposed to Naruto. Just ugh.

I gave it the cIollege try. I even tried to absorb some of the supposed higher quality stuff. Someone recommended Studio Ghibli stuff. I watched Spirited Away. It absolutely bored me to tears.

My conclusion is that absolutely anything and everything in entertsinment to come out of Japan, animated or video game is completely and utterly intolerable. That coountry is an entertaiment wasteland of utter nonsense.

I have learned my lesson. If something comes from Japan, or is created by someone from Japan, I won't waste my time on it.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
In the 90's i was curious and interested in Anime.

I watched Akira with a few friends. it was supposed to be the best Anime film ever, but it was the worst pile of shit I've ever seen. Completely disjointed and impossible to follow with no cohesive story arc. I wanted two hours of my life back, and this was when I was a teenager and time was so much less important to me than it is today.

Then in college my roommate was obsessed with Dragonballz. Oh my god was that shit awful. I can't believe anyone over age 12 would ever find that watchable.

In college I was also forcefully exposed to shine shit game series called Final Fantasy. The spikey haired nonsense was strong and utterly intolerable. Ive also been exposed to Naruto. Just ugh.

I gave it the cIollege try. I even tried to absorb some of the supposed higher quality stuff. Someone recommended Studio Ghibli stuff. I watched Spirited Away. It absolutely bored me to tears.

My conclusion is that absolutely anything and everything in entertsinment to come out of Japan, animated or video game is completely and utterly intolerable. That coountry is an entertaiment wasteland of utter nonsense.

I have learned my lesson. If something comes from Japan, or is created by someone from Japan, I won't waste my time on it.
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