Court issues permanent injunction in Epic v. Apple case

Lakados

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I think it's an important fight, but using Fortnite as leverage to try to sue Apple, I don't know. Not a great strategy.

I think noko is right about innovation. Maybe Epic should have spent that money making their own Android fork OS, or their own phone. They have the cash to do it.
Honestly they should leverage their ties with Tencent and push it as an alternative OS in China get a large foothold there then expand out. Their dislike of Apple and Distrust of Google are pretty well known so getting in good there now would cement a large user base and let them branch from there.
 

DPI

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I think it's an important fight, but using Fortnite as leverage to try to sue Apple, I don't know. Not a great strategy.

I think noko is right about innovation. Maybe Epic should have spent that money making their own Android fork OS, or their own phone. They have the cash to do it.
There's definitely a fight to be had with Apple, there's no reason the status quo shouldn't be challenged and probed. But it's going to require either a much bigger company with a stronger - or at least coherent - case and all their ducks in a row, or some type of organized effort / class action that is able to force project enough to pierce the membrane of a two trillion dollar corporation. All Epic seems to be succeeding in is standing outside Apple HQ throwing water balloons. They're getting nowhere, and will get nowhere on the appeal they've announced.

Tim was a brilliant programmer, but a field general he is not.
 
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noko

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Honestly they should leverage their ties with Tencent and push it as an alternative OS in China get a large foothold there then expand out. Their dislike of Apple and Distrust of Google are pretty well known so getting in good there now would cement a large user base and let them branch from there.
Yes, with all of China data collection and spying from the CCP. No thanks.
 

Lakados

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Yes, with all of China data collection and spying from the CCP. No thanks.
Well, they launch the China version and the non-China version, not hard to maintain two different builds one with and one without the data collection features. The point is they already have an in with China so they might as well use it, and given gaming from phones there is freaking HUGE they might as play to the market they want to entice.
The Chinese cellphone market already has 100% of everything they were wanting the judge to force Apple and Google to do, and if they can't make it work there what hope is there to make it work here.

And that is a big minus for Epyc on their partnership with Tencent too, I need a lot more proof from them that they aren't sharing my data with the Chinese government than their current statements on the matter, there were too many open statements for me to take it at face value.
 

noko

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Well, they launch the China version and the non-China version, not hard to maintain two different builds one with and one without the data collection features. The point is they already have an in with China so they might as well use it, and given gaming from phones there is freaking HUGE they might as play to the market they want to entice.
The Chinese cellphone market already has 100% of everything they were wanting the judge to force Apple and Google to do, and if they can't make it work there what hope is there to make it work here.

And that is a big minus for Epyc on their partnership with Tencent too, I need a lot more proof from them that they aren't sharing my data with the Chinese government than their current statements on the matter, there were too many open statements for me to take it at face value.
I do not think China would be interested. China has very strict gaming laws/policies for children (big gaming market in general):
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-08-30/china-video-game-ban-law

BEIJING —
China is banning children from playing online games for more than three hours a week, the harshest restriction so far on the gaming industry as Chinese regulators continue cracking down on the technology sector.

Minors in China can play games only between 8 and 9 p.m. on Fridays, weekends and public holidays starting Tuesday, according to a notice from the National Press and Publication Administration.

That limits gaming to three hours a week for most weeks of the year, down from a previous restriction set in 2019 that allowed minors to play games for an hour and a half per day and three hours on public holidays.

On second thought maybe EPIC should -> so they can go out of business :D
 

Lakados

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cybereality

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Aside from everything else, the main point is that Apple designed an OS and a hardware device, but does that entitle them to a dictatorship of what can and cannot be done on that platform?

There have been many cases of them censoring content (Wikipedia has some of the more notible occurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Apple ). As well as banning apps that don't fit into their profit strategy.

So we really want them to have a stranglehold on the mobile market? And while Google is better, it is still the same model.

What if Microsoft said Windows 11 would ban Steam and EGS and you could only buy games directly from the MS Store? It is exactly the same thing.

How far will Apple go? They already force Safari on everyone that uses iOS (other browsers are merely front-ends for Safari/WebKit, they don't allow 3rd party browsers). Maybe they will start banning websites too. I mean, it's their platform, they can do whatever they want, you said?
 
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noko

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Well shit, when China identifies a problem they don't fuck around do they...
With those generations deprived or restricted will probably not be as interested in gaming when older. Not sure why cell phones are not included, if Chinese kids are like American kids, nose to screen sun up, sun down and part of moon.
 

cybereality

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Play for 1 hour a day only on weekends? Why not just ban it altogether? That is the most unreasonable things I've heard in a long time.
 
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Delicieuxz

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Maybe it's just a Canada thing and it's our exchange rate that is shit but it seems things here that were once $59.99 are now closer to $79.99 instead.
From the 1990s to maybe around 2009, give or take a couple of years, big-title PC games in Canada were generally $50. Then they were increased to $60. And now they're $80.

But 16-bit console games at Toys 'R' Us had crazy prices.
 

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noko

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Play for 1 hour a day only on weekends? Why not just ban it altogether? That is the most unreasonable things I've heard in a long time.
So they don't have to build way more relearning centers and behavior improvement hospitals. Gives authorities a way out.

This, if long term, just shrunk Consoles, gaming GPU's, hand helds and so on, now and in the future for the Chinese market. Wait, when the crack down on American Companies in China, Tesla, Apple and others start, they did for them own which will put pressure on them to do for foreign companies eventually. All these companies that put huge investments into China may get their rewards.
 

Lakados

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With those generations deprived or restricted will probably not be as interested in gaming when older. Not sure why cell phones are not included, if Chinese kids are like American kids, nose to screen sun up, sun down and part of moon.
You can’t exist in China without a cell phone, drivers license, debit/credit card, bus pass, taxi app, government ID, you name it. It’s why the million some odd cellphone deactivations over the past year and a half there are such a scary statistic.
 

cybereality

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Also, I imagine there will just pop-up illegal "speak-easy" gaming cafes, but maybe it wouldn't be worth the risk.
 

noko

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So does Apple mandate the same rules for iOS/Store on their iPhones sold in China? 15%-30%? How about the games sold and so on? Does China overlook Apple operations in China, iOS etc.?

Tin foil hat time + conspiracy theory + don't knows -> Apple new feature to explore you phone photos without you knowing it as well as AI to identify characteristics in an image -> is that really for Apple to appease the CCP? Would be kinda nice maybe for a regime where privacy is considered criminal to have a back door to any phone, use phone AI to look for things interested in. Just thinking out loud. Long past are the real investigator reporters that risks their life and limb to find out what really is going on.
 
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LukeTbk

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According to a slew of documents reviewed by the The New York Times, Apple has "ceded control" of its data centers in Guiyang... Subsequently, Apple allegedly moved the iCloud data of its Chinese customers from servers located outside the country to the network of a Chinese state-owned company, known as Guizhou-Cloud Big Data (GCBD). It did this on the advice of its China team, according to the Times, as part of a project known internally as “Golden Gate.” This also allegedly allowed Apple to protect itself from American laws, which forbid US companies from handing over data to Chinese law enforcement.

Which would make the recent end to end encryption with the check on the phone instead then on the cloud a big plus for the user that want privacy from the Chinese governement here I think versus the current system I think and not a minus.
 

Lakados

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That article pertains to Chinese citizens. But it shows Apple has no problem bending over for any government, despite what they claim.
Every company that operates in China has, Google for all their past bravado about ditching China went crawling back when they saw it hurt their profits. It’s their country and their laws, we don’t have to like them and we can be thankful we don’t have to live under them, but at the end of the day you have to respect them.
 

Lakados

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From the 1990s to maybe around 2009, give or take a couple of years, big-title PC games in Canada were generally $50. Then they were increased to $60. And now they're $80.

But 16-bit console games at Toys 'R' Us had crazy prices.
Maybe I’m just old and this is my “Back in my day this was a nickel” moment.
 

Armenius

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From the 1990s to maybe around 2009, give or take a couple of years, big-title PC games in Canada were generally $50. Then they were increased to $60. And now they're $80.

But 16-bit console games at Toys 'R' Us had crazy prices.
$1 CAD was equivalent to $1.05 USD in 2009. $1 CAD is $0.79 USD today. $80 seems about right if you include HST in the price ($75.95 + $4.95 (15%) CAD).
 

Delicieuxz

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$1 CAD was equivalent to $1.05 USD in 2009. $1 CAD is $0.79 USD today. $80 seems about right if you include HST in the price ($75.95 + $4.95 (15%) CAD).

The USD value compared to the CAD crashed in 2008 due to the subprime mortgage financial crisis, but it was up again by 2009. Then it dipped below the CAD for only brief periods of time in 2011, 2012, and 2013. But before 2008 and since 2013, it's been quite high against the CAD. In 2002, 1 USD was worth up to over $1.60 CAD.

Here's a USD to CAD history chart:

https://fxtop.com/en/historical-exc...09&YYYY2=2021&LARGE=1&LANG=en&CJ=0&MM1Y=0&TR=

I think that the shift from $50 to $60 CAD on PC games occurred when the US prices of PC games also went from $50 to $60 - which occurred a number of years after consoles first shifted the price of their new games from $50 to $60 USD. There were several years where PC games cost $10 USD less than their console versions.
 
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