Those are peanuts compared to social security, defense, and medicare/medicaid.
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Coupon Users Furious Over Proposed Tax
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Those are peanuts compared to social security, defense, and medicare/medicaid.
I'll answer your question...based on how you phrase it, no. But it isn't as straight forward as you make it sound. You can always say those who don't want to pay taxes can leave the country and renounce their citizenship.
I believe in this country we need a baseline....we need a level that we say "we won't allow people to fall below this point". Some basic things need to be paid for with taxes. We have to decide these basic things as a public because apparently it isn't always obvious to everyone, we just aren't all on the same page. With that decided...there will always be people who are selfish and don't want to pay taxes or think everyone else is a dead beat that they pay for and so on. There is something that gets lost on people in this country, you can do everything right in this country and still barely get by. We like to think anyone can make it, we like to believe this is the land of opportunity. Look at the people who came where you came from....how many ended up millionaires?
As far as capital, I have a serious problem with CORPORATION as a concept. Their #1 mission is always to be profitable. That doesn't mean that they do things because it is the right thing to do, they do things that are profitable. Those laws that make running a business in the USA more expensive are the same laws that make it safer for an employee to work, safer for products to come to market and keep people from earning slave wages and having no medical benefits.
Corporations are doing what they are designed to do, find the advantage to make a profit even if that means going to a country where you can work people to death and outsource the work so it isn't on your company's direct watch. See Apple's Iphone and Foxconn suicides.
Arguably for a lot less than a lot of things that have been going on this country for some time.
good catch, I was aware of that but overlooked it for my example. And you also right about capital gains and i was getting at that but skipped it for simplicity. i didn't have that kind of time when i was doing a simple cut example that in hindsight was a little too dumb down.
The problem is 95% of the time all you have to choose from is the lesser of two idiots. The rest of the time you get a honest decent person in an office, and nothing gets accomplished because he doesn't want to "play the game". No-one else will back his initiatives because he isn't pandering to another politician or lobbying group.
What, just because he made 4 billion means he shouldn't have it? I don't care if someone made 12 billion, and I only cleared $30,000, if he made it - it's his. I just think he should pay his full share.
LOL
agreed.
and do you mean "he should pay his fair share"? I think that's what you meant.
what is fair? is the same rate fair to us all?
I understand that it was a tough choice. But I've come to the conclusion that those bastards will do it again. Things have to get really bad for Americans to change their minds on the importance of regulations. A bailout makes it so people don't take the problem seriously enough. Nobody can say with any knowledge can say with a straight face that the financial reform bill passed last year will prevent a crisis from happening. It is mostly cosmetic.
Big Banks are Bigger and still can't be allowed to fail.
I see your point now and i agree with you.
Let's not act like taxes are too high though. Most politicians act like raising taxes is never the right thing to do...which leads to irresponsible spending. I think we need tax reform. But also we need to take a look at how much money does the government need to run and how much debt do we want it to have as a share of gdp. also, how do we finance safety net programs like unemployment insurance and medicaid during crisis and should the federal, state and local governments have rainy day funds?
the point i was trying to make earlier. Joe broke ass "me" can't get a capital gains break and the same goes for most of the country.
USA used to be land of LIBERTY. Financial and personal liberty where the governments job was to preserve liberty not steal it. Why should I leave rather than espouse what made us work for so many years? Although I might since China and the East lets a man work and is getting richer because if it, but for the moment I'm American and my family is here.
Then start a charity. Don't force me into your belief system as it causes all of us to go broke eventually proven time and time again and soon to come here. Charity OTOH never bankrupted a country and still feed everyone needy.
Indeed, in addition to preserving Liberty, these things are enumerated in the Constitution. Read it. And no Commerce Clause does not mean you can buy cell phones for Section 8 recipients or bail out banks.
We used to be. Now we have basically two classes of people. Assets and liabilities. Payors and recipients. That will be hard to bridge and collapse us eventually since it's easier to not work than work or to get bailouts than bankruptcy. No one wants pain only largess and we use unsustainable debt to satisfy Americans voracious appetite for sloth.
There are deadbeats at every level. Especially when you have govt do so much those with means get a good share of that pie. Like I said 36 door to knock on rather than 300 million. We have Welfare for rags and riches.
Indeed it's sad but that's normal, look at soviet experiment how poor they all got more centralized and command economy govt became. If you don't let a man work he won't. If you tax him too much for working he won't. This all drags everything down.
LOL okay... Dude profit is what makes world go round it's most efficient and increases our stand of living. GREED is GOOD.
Please PLEASE watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VHiONkot8
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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You're not old enough to remember King George...
Unions are only a problem when the company is in hard times. I think people will miss unions when they are all dead.
Keep in mind that 17% of the country's labor is unionized. 17%!!! yes...that's the cause of all our problems.
Everyone should be making minimum wage i guess. oh wait...people don't even want a minimum wage law...and didn't the unions fight for that?
"GREED" has gotten us into this position in the first place. In 20 years it won't matter...The United States will have its pants down and head in the sand....
Unions have given this country a lot:
1) 40 hour work week
2) Paid Vacation
3) Safety at our jobs
4) Medical benefits through our job...
5) Child labor laws....
Yeah, lets all go back to the 1920's when we worked 60-70 a week for a small wage....
Nah. I'm not a pessimist. We will be great again just need a wake up call with reality. After collapse we'll get back to basics like hard work, frugality, savings, producing etc - we have all the tools to be great just need a bankruptcy to push us.
i agree with you. 1 key thing for me is that the less fortunate shouldn't have to take the brunt of the load. median income for a family of 4 in the USA is about 50k...relatively flat for the last 10 years. and then people are expected to set money aside for retirement, pay more for medical, and reduce social security wages...that's smart business but isn't good for the population.
lol what a stupid idea, if they want to save some money make people on welfare or whatever you call it in the USA submit receipts for all expenses tax dollars are paying for..think of how much they could save if welfare checks couldn't go to alcohol or tobacco, drugs... stupid shit and only housing, utilities, food
as for unions... lol all they did was make big companies go broke paying janitors 25$/hour and some guy on an assembly line doing monkey work for 30$ an hour..have no use for them..so sick of these guys still going on strike during a recession because they want more money, be happy you have a job or gtfo and let people in who will gladly work for half your wages, preferably people who deserve the work and not fresh of the boat type..people who have paid into the system for years but cannot find work
countries need to spend less on other countries and more on their own, Canada is bad for this too, no problem sending millions in aid to country xyz, but leaving the tax payers who paid that money hanging, or people living on the streets here to help people somewhere else... doesn't make sense
as for unions... lol all they did was make big companies go broke paying janitors 25$/hour and some guy on an assembly line doing monkey work for 30$ an hour..have no use for them..so sick of these guys still going on strike during a recession because they want more money, be happy you have a job or gtfo and let people in who will gladly work for half your wages, preferably people who deserve the work and not fresh of the boat type..people who have paid into the system for years but cannot find work
countries need to spend less on other countries and more on their own, Canada is bad for this too, no problem sending millions in aid to country xyz, but leaving the tax payers who paid that money hanging, or people living on the streets here to help people somewhere else... doesn't make sense
I'm going to take that as a challenge by posting the following comment:
Gov. Malloy is a Dumbocrat. That explains his tax "initiative".
sfsuphysics
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wonder how many people responding actually live in CT... I mean CA has had this for a long LONG time, no new threads to say how stupid CA is... (yea yea I know it's a given )
)LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I'm going to take that as a challenge by posting the following comment:
Gov. Malloy is a Dumbocrat. That explains his tax "initiative".
Doesn't matter too much which of the two parties he is affiliated with, if we can elect into local and state governments more Libertarians, only then will you see real results.
HardOCP News
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Dear Mr. ZoNe's dad, your son says you are a little bitch and he refers to complete strangers that way on the internet because "it's cool/edgy."
How old are you again? Can you even buy a beer? Seriously dude, how old were you ten years ago? Were you working and paying taxes "back in a better time?" How long have you been in the workforce?
You sure have an awful lot to say to us "little bitches" about how the world is being run.
clarkkent57
Limp Gawd
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Not that this message is going to be read much, arriving so late to the party, but...
I'm amazed that we repeat historic mistakes of the past. It's like our leaders never took the colleges courses that would show them what they need to do...Micro and Macro Economics, along with American History...if only those.
Stimulating the economy by lessening the tax rate would actually cause a greater bottom-line tax collection, through VOLUME. (Think "velocity of money." Look it up.) The way they're going, with stupid suggestions like these, we're looking at touching off another Great Depression.
I mean, go ahead, raise import and export tarriffs, raise sales taxes, raise income taxes, in order to maximize tax income on every current transaction, and find out how quickly you'll bring everything to a halt, when COGS gets so high, people won't buy.
Lower these, and you can stimulate the economy without having to inject big $$$ into the economy (which big business will absorb almost immediately, by the way. "Trickle down" doesn't work. Never has, never will. If you HAVE to inject $$$ into the economy...start at the bottom.)
If they want to REALLY stimulate the economy...I'd suggest we go back and collect what's owed the US from WWI and WWII, with interest, on a payment plan, along with seizing bank accounts, both foreign and domestic, of known criminals and terrorists. Don't just freeze 'em. Take 'em.
I'm amazed that we repeat historic mistakes of the past. It's like our leaders never took the colleges courses that would show them what they need to do...Micro and Macro Economics, along with American History...if only those.
Stimulating the economy by lessening the tax rate would actually cause a greater bottom-line tax collection, through VOLUME. (Think "velocity of money." Look it up.) The way they're going, with stupid suggestions like these, we're looking at touching off another Great Depression.
I mean, go ahead, raise import and export tarriffs, raise sales taxes, raise income taxes, in order to maximize tax income on every current transaction, and find out how quickly you'll bring everything to a halt, when COGS gets so high, people won't buy.
Lower these, and you can stimulate the economy without having to inject big $$$ into the economy (which big business will absorb almost immediately, by the way. "Trickle down" doesn't work. Never has, never will. If you HAVE to inject $$$ into the economy...start at the bottom.)
If they want to REALLY stimulate the economy...I'd suggest we go back and collect what's owed the US from WWI and WWII, with interest, on a payment plan, along with seizing bank accounts, both foreign and domestic, of known criminals and terrorists. Don't just freeze 'em. Take 'em.
sfsuphysics
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hehe... OUCH.
There's no going back. But most of those protections are now guaranteed by law, making the union's continuing role superfluous. (I'll add that the 40 hour work week isn't unqualifiedly good). I have no problems with unions so long as employers are allowed to deal with non-union employees should they desire to do so.
I do think we should outlaw public employee unions. They are not bargaining against merely their employer (the electeced officals who have none of their own money at stake), but against the people. If working conditions are unfair, they can work to elect others who will change those conditions.
In any case, this has been a predictably interesting thread. I also read today that an increasing number of states have it in to tax Amazon. No surprises as they are all looking for more revenue to bail them out of the messes they spent themselves (and us) into.
Sadly, our elected officials pander to the lowest common denominator instead of acting like adults.
sfsuphysics
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There is a limit to how effective actually is though, and could actually backfire if too much "lowering of tax" actually occurs.
I mean remember (and I do say that somewhat tongue in cheek), when savings interest rates were obnoxiously high? All for the betterment of the economy, more interest, people spend more, economy/revenue grows... nuh uh.. many got greedy and locked those rates on long term investments like CDs.
The thing about following economics as written in books, is that they don't always work, it's like a science lesson where if you add 2 parts hydrogen to one part oxygen you'll get water + energy. Economics is something that is ever evolving with technology, I doubt Adam Smith had foresaw the global economy as it is today.
Monkey34
Supreme [H]ardness
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Well, fair is relative, and might imply something other than the full amount he should be paying. Is it fair that he can afford a high priced accountant to find all the loopholes in the tax code? I suppose. Is it fair to afford a high priced accountant to hide money, fudge paperwork, and other means of keeping as much as possible? No. Personally, if I WAS the guy making that much, I would be keeping as much as I could within the law, but who knows about anyone else?
The same rate isn't "fair", and this is why I suppose we have different rates for different income levels.
Monkey34
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True, but not enough people are willing to gamble with such extreme changes to the status quo. It scares them, as much as it might sound enticing. Plus add the legalization of marijuana issue and you don't get enough votes.
Nice out of context quoting. Don't really now how to replay other than 26, 16 and immigrants in our shop work 5x harder than any American because they are hungry for the American dream.
thefreeaccount
Gawd
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I guess I'm the only person alive who likes this idea. Taxes should be structured to encourage free market behavior. Taxing the sale price encourages deceptive pricing strategies; taxing the retail price encourages open disclosure of real "going rates."
Tea Party and certain Republicans like NJ's Gov. Christie are role model governors.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I like some of their policies, but I'm not a fan of either of those parties. I have a hard time backing anyone with a populist agenda. Their social policies usually take a 180 degree turn from their economic policies.
Henchman24
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Yeah that idea helped the budget a ton right? Last I heard CA was broke, but hey they paid for theater carpeting some new school I saw on TV, high school I think. That wasn't the worst part by far regarding that particular construction.
Waste, corruption, no bid contracts, there are at least a hundred issues to tackle that would improve budgets, but a tax on a made up price for consumer goods? (consumers determine in the long run what a product is worth, not MSRP)
Yeah this will help. He must dine with the Schwarzeneggers.