Couple of WC Questions

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Markyip1

[H]ard|Gawd
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Feb 12, 2007
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Hi all,

In cleaning out my WC loop on Friday, I unfortunately punctured a hole in the radiator. Before I order a new radiator and rebuild my loop, I wanted to just clear up a few questions I had to ensure my WC setup is as efficient as possible.

To begin, my loop consists of (in the following order,) a top mounted (in a Cosmos S) Swiftech MCR-320 radiator, followed by a Swiftech Micro RES sitting on top of drive bays, followed by a MCP-335 Pump with PetraTech top sitting on the case floor, followed by a D-Tek Fuzion CPU block with quad nozzle (cooling a Q6600 G0.) Tubing is Masterkleer 7/16 ID with worm-drive clamps on 3/8 barbs.

First Question: Over the past eight months, I've been using distilled water with Pentosin G11 added. My first question is whether or not the Pentosin is needed. I think all components are copper, which would suggest that distilled only is best (along with a dash of PT Nuke.) I don't care what color the water is -- I'm just looking to run a clean loop that's as maintenance-free as possible.

Second Question: I'm looking to upgrade to a Core i7 920 in the next week or so (especially now that I have to redo my loop anyway.) Since building my WC loop a year ago, it seems that several blocks have surpassed the D-Tek in CPU cooling performance. Given the other parts in my system, what would be the best block to get for the 920?

Last Question: Given the upgrade and the fact that I need a new radiator, would I be well served by getting another MCR-320? I wouldn't be opposed to an alternative, assuming it would fit into my setup well. However, the one requirement I do have is that it fits in to the top of my Cosmo S without requiring case modification. The MCR-320 achieves this very nicely.

Many thanks!
 
Okay, I'll reply.

You are on the right track. You don't need any anti-corrosives, without any aluminum in your loop.

It seems that the Heatkiller 3.0 LT is the current "it" block for the i7.

The swiftech rad is one of the best bang for the buck rads out there. You could some thermochill or fesser rad and perhaps get a couple of degrees cooler. It's up to you if the extra cost is worh it, as your current rad was more than sufficient for your heat load.
 
D-Tek Fusion is still a good block. You can sue the money you were using to upgrade your block on something else. If you really want to shell it out, go for eather the EK Supreme LT, or better the Heatkiller LC, LT, and CU. The LC and EK Supreme are equal in performance and the Heatkilelr LT and CU are the best blocks out today as they have the same internals.

7/16 over 3/8? 7/16 is bigger! You want 7/16 or 1/2 tubing over 1/2 barbs or 3/8 tubing over 3/8 barbs.
 
So now that I have a Core i7 in my hand and a motherboard (an EVGA x58 Classified,) I have three new questions:

1. What gain in performance (temperature drop) would I be looking at if I replace my FuZion with a HeatKiller V3.0?

2. Given my single processor-only loop with a triple rad, would I be okay to add chipset cooling w/o running another loop? I think this wouldn't be a problem, but I wanted to make sure.

3. Assuming I go ahead and add the chipset to my loop, would I be better off with the EK block or the Koolance block for the Classified? I'm aware that EK has a better reputation in general and the particular EK block for the X58 covers the mosfets in addition to the chipset. However, people do seem to like the Koolance.

Thanks!
 
1. What gain in performance (temperature drop) would I be looking at if I replace my FuZion with a HeatKiller V3.0?

No one could say for sure, if any. Typically if a new block performs 2 deg C better than an older one on some standard test system it is hailed as a great improvment. If it performed 5 C better across the board we all would run out and buy one today. So not much is my general answer and it is up to you if the $ is worth 0-2-5 Deg C possible/maybe improvement.

2. Given my single processor-only loop with a triple rad, would I be okay to add chipset cooling w/o running another loop? I think this wouldn't be a problem, but I wanted to make sure.

You are correct, espically with an i7 with the onboard memory controller. In fact I would question the need for a chipset cooler at all. No many people are concerned about OCing their buss or HDs :D and thats about all thats left on the NB after you take out the memory controller which was also the major source of heat. So the NB would contribute very little in heat load compared to the cpu.

3. Assuming I go ahead and add the chipset to my loop, would I be better off with the EK block or the Koolance block for the Classified? I'm aware that EK has a better reputation in general and the particular EK block for the X58 covers the mosfets in addition to the chipset. However, people do seem to like the Koolance.

I would go with the mosfet coolers, next to the cpu the mosfets are the next highest heat producing item on the board and the lack of an air based cooler helps them run hot. In fact I would go for mosfet coolers before the NB but if you can get both in one shot. Go for it. Now you are (in my opinion) talking about spending cash where it will do some good.

Gratz on the new system. Have fun. /envy
 
BillParrish said:
1. What gain in performance (temperature drop) would I be looking at if I replace my FuZion with a HeatKiller V3.0?

No one could say for sure, if any. Typically if a new block performs 2 deg C better than an older one on some standard test system it is hailed as a great improvment. If it performed 5 C better across the board we all would run out and buy one today. So not much is my general answer and it is up to you if the $ is worth 0-2-5 Deg C possible/maybe improvement.

2. Given my single processor-only loop with a triple rad, would I be okay to add chipset cooling w/o running another loop? I think this wouldn't be a problem, but I wanted to make sure.

You are correct, espically with an i7 with the onboard memory controller. In fact I would question the need for a chipset cooler at all. No many people are concerned about OCing their buss or HDs :D and thats about all thats left on the NB after you take out the memory controller which was also the major source of heat. So the NB would contribute very little in heat load compared to the cpu.

3. Assuming I go ahead and add the chipset to my loop, would I be better off with the EK block or the Koolance block for the Classified? I'm aware that EK has a better reputation in general and the particular EK block for the X58 covers the mosfets in addition to the chipset. However, people do seem to like the Koolance.

I would go with the mosfet coolers, next to the cpu the mosfets are the next highest heat producing item on the board and the lack of an air based cooler helps them run hot. In fact I would go for mosfet coolers before the NB but if you can get both in one shot. Go for it. Now you are (in my opinion) talking about spending cash where it will do some good.

Gratz on the new system. Have fun. /envy
Click to expand...

Great information. Thanks so much.
 
Hey guys,

With all my new hardware components in hand and the water cooling upgrade figured out, I've purchased the following:

- HeatKiller V3.0 LGA 1366 w/ LGA 1366 back plate from Performance-PCs (only guys in stock with the block and backplate.)
- XSPC Res Top to replace my MCRES-MICRO V1.
- (UN)Designs Z and 3G ver 2.0 brackets to mount pump+res above bottom fan mount.
- 3 new blue-LED Yate Loon D12SM from Jab-Tech (to ensure all fans around radiator are medium RPM.)
- Set of 4 D-Tek High Flow 1/2 barbs

I decided to hold off on cooling the motherboard for now. The EK, Koolance, and BitsPower options are all quite pricey and I've already spent enough on this X58 upgrade. Down the road I may reconsider if its needed, but I'm hoping it won't be.
 
You made a smart purchase there.
I have a Heatkiller and it kicks serious ass. I got 5C over my Swiftech GTZ, all else equal.

As far as coolant, I just swapped out my distilled + antifreeze and went with distilled and silver coils.
I bought some 1/8" wide silver and coiled 2, 5 inch strips and placed them in my reservoir.
No more additives for me.:D No more gunk to clean out of the blocks.

Did you buy a new radiator??? I just replaced my Swiftech 120.3 with a Thermochill 120.3, the difference in radiators is quite amazing...........like NAPA versus Military Spec.

Next time you are in need of supplies, I'd suggest you look at Sidewindercomputers.com, the prices generally beat Performance or any one else, and the service and support are untouchable. The company is in Indiana, so shipping is generally quick and cheaper.
I buy all my WC stuff there. The HeatKiller is in stock there right now as well.

One point..........those blue LED Yates suck.........I bought a couple and the fan axis is really wobbily, it's like the fan is too narrow for the axle and the fan blades can move back and forth quite alot......the blades ended up rattling against the housing, essentially tearing the blades up.......at first I thought it was just a defective fan, but both of mine had the same problem.
Buy the plain generic black medium speed Yate OEMs.
 
Thanks. I got a replacement Swiftech 120.3 a while ago to replace the one I sprung a leak in and didn't feel like fixing. While the Thermochill may be best of the best, the Swiftech a) is right up there in performance, b) is quite thin, c) works quite well with low and medium CFM fans, and most importantly, d) fits into the top of my case without modification. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the crappy plastic barbs that come with it, but I plan to replace these. I'm not so sure the Thermochill does, and I didn't want to pay upwards of $100 for a radiator to find out.

I did look at Sidewinder (I'm first and foremost a Petra shopper however,) but they were out of the backplate and out of the EK Classified block (as I was considering that too.) Peformance-PCs were the only game in town that had everything in stock now, and while I didn't end up getting the EK block, their price on the HeatKiller was no different than Sidewinder's. As for the fans, only Jab-Tech had the medium speed ones with LEDs (Petra only carries slow YLs with blue LEDS.) I like the LEDs for the top of the case as the pull component to my radiator cooling because it looks good. I use regular YLs for everything else, for which I already have quite a supply. I know in the past Petra carried a different model of YLs than everyone else, but I'm pretty sure Jab now carries what Petra does.
 
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Looks great.
Hope everything works out.

I have used Petra's, but they seem to always be short on stock.
Performance does have a giant inventory! and massive case stock, they even modded my Stacker for me.
I like Sidewinders due to the prices and proximity. I will even use a different brand than I had in mind to buy from them, just for the service and speed.:D

If you ever think about a chipset block......the BitsPower is sweet.;)
 
On the whether to use Pentosin or not. I've always been under the impression that adding a couple of drops of PT Nuke or a biocide addititive to distilled water was sufficient for any WC'ing loop that didn't have mixed metals or was used in a sub zero environment. Plus the added precaution of keeping your boxen out of direct sun light :). Then I read were Dawn dish soap acted like a water wetter to inhibit surface tension (surficant?). Then I read where antifreeze, like Pentosin G11 or G12, could do other things besides fight corrosion (mixed metals) and keep your loop from freezing up. It added bling and some extra lubrication for the pump. I also read where adding gylcerin (hard to get sometimes) also helped lube the pump. (before someone chimes in about this concoction affecting temps, I have first hand experience to say that if it does, which I haven't noticed, it's very, very little :rolleyes:

ATM, what I do is just use distilled water and PT Nuke, but I replumb and refill pretty often. I think if I was going to keep my fluid around long term, whether neccessary or not, I'd run distilled water, PT Nuke, Dawn dish soap (just a drop or two after bleeding) and G12 Pentosin for both a little bling and to help lubricate my pump :D

Seeing as I don't have a i7 CPU ATM, I really can't answer any questions about cooling one. From what I've gathered a i7, at 130w, stock probably needs a triple rad of some kind and heatkiller type of performance WB :confused: I've always preferred geting "hands on" real experience advice. :p

Please remember what I posted above are pretty much opinions and advice from long time, very experienced and successful WC'ers. I gleamed these "pearls of wisdom" from this forums water cooling thread and the water cooling threads of many forums ;)
 
That sounds like a hassle for simple all copper loops. From everything I've read and know, Pentosin is useless unless you're mixing metals, in which case it's required. A pure Distilled loop plus PTNuke or a Silver Kill Coil will perform better.

For colored water, I simply use grocery store bought food coloring. Three drops is all that's needed and when the die breaks apart and bonds with materials in the loop, it will bond and stain the tubing (which is fine.) If you want colored water and are running an all copper loop, three drops of food coloring into distilled water seems to be the way to go.
 
Markyip1 said:
That sounds like a hassle for simple all copper loops. From everything I've read and know, Pentosin is useless unless you're mixing metals, in which case it's required. A pure Distilled loop plus PTNuke or a Silver Kill Coil will perform better.

For colored water, I simply use grocery store bought food coloring. Three drops is all that's needed and when the die breaks apart and bonds with materials in the loop, it will bond and stain the tubing (which is fine.) If you want colored water and are running an all copper loop, three drops of food coloring into distilled water seems to be the way to go.
Click to expand...

In all honesy I don't see where adding Pentosin or organic food coloring (which may or may not attract plant or animal life) has much difference in hassle :rolleyes:. Just the chance of it even remotely it being a benefit to my expensive WCing pumps by lubricating them apeals to me :p

Altough I took this out of a article about automobiles I think it also applys to computer water cooling pumps " The lubricating properties of anti-freeze are also very important to remember." :)

If there are some doubts to the lubricating properties of an anti freeze, like Pentosin, just use good ole" Google and decide for yourself. Like I've said before, many times, I want honest, intelligent, first hand experience from those that are respected as being knowlegable and understanding about the subject matter, not some funnel procrastinating, BS peeps that pass on unexperienced misinformation and horror stories :p
 
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