Cortana Not Going Away Whether You Like it or Not

Dekoth-E-

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Been running the latest production builds since I built this sig rig almost two years ago. 4 feature updates, went from 2 1080s to 2 1080 Tis, swapped out the 3 1080p 3D monitors with a better set of 1080p 3D monitors, added two VR headsets, a 4k monitor and an additional 4 TB of app storage. I've never plugged this amount of hardware into a PC with this amount of software installed running prior versions of Windows but I don't see how Windows 7 or 8.1 would handle this setup any better, especially when dealing with 4k.

It isn't a question of what it can handle, really none of that is win 10 specific. My beef with Win 10 is the removal of Group policies from Pro, the forcing of or at least making the removal of anything related to the store extremely difficult etc. My beef with Win 10 isn't performance related, it is purely features I use and paid for with Win 7 being taken from me.
 

heatlesssun

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It isn't a question of what it can handle, really none of that is win 10 specific.

When it comes to 4k, high-DPI and mixed DPI, that is pretty Windows 10 specific. After all the years that scaling was broken in the Steam client, it's now FINALLY fixed and that, like a number of desktop apps recently only see this improvement under 10, and then only since the 1709 update. Still not perfect but it's FAR better than dealing with Windows 7 and even 8.1 in these situation.

My beef with Win 10 is the removal of Group policies from Pro, the forcing of or at least making the removal of anything related to the store extremely difficult etc. My beef with Win 10 isn't performance related, it is purely features I use and paid for with Win 7 being taken from me.

And I get that kind stuff but there are still over 4000 group policies in Windows 10. And even if the policy was removed there's still often a registry setting though I get that's not as convenient in a domain situation. Yeah, Microsoft wants people to use Cortana and the Store and it's making easy to turn off and for people that don't want that stuff it should be easier to control. I'm not arguing that at all.
 

DPI

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When it comes to 4k, high-DPI and mixed DPI, that is pretty Windows 10 specific. After all the years that scaling was broken in the Steam client, it's now FINALLY fixed and that, like a number of desktop apps recently only see this improvement under 10, and then only since the 1709 update. Still not perfect but it's FAR better than dealing with Windows 7 and even 8.1 in these situation.

There's nothing "10 specific" about 4K or high-DPI. 8.1 handles both well enough for the tradeoffs in 10 not to be worth it; and I can't speak to 7 but obviously it handles 4k.

But the fact its been nearly 3 years and the best you can come up with for what's better in 10 is "Well high-DPI is a little less broken" just proves the rule: for anyone kool-aid free, there's pretty much nothing in 10 that can't be done in 8.1 or 7 exactly the same. 7 and 8.1 play the same Steam games and run the same Win32 programs, just without all the gotchas, downsides, candy crush bullshit and telemetry, and never knowing if you'll awaken to Microsoft having hijacked all your settings with a forced, featureless seasonal update again.
 
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Biznatch

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No Cortana in Windows 10 LTSB, thankfully.

But you are stuck, what, 3 major revisions behind now? Can't run docker linux containers, or the latest bash subsystem. I had to change the license on my laptop once I realized I couldn't update to the latest version to get those features.
 

Biznatch

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Who needs feature updates? Even Windows 7 is still good as anything today. Certainly Windows 10 from 2016 is more than enough for the next 5+ years.

And I've always disabled Windows Update on my Windows 10 installations specifically to not get feature updates, as they always break things. A Windows 10 OS' expiration date is whenever a person is next going to install a large update (at which time it's better to do a full clean installation). So, the fact that LTSB has no feature updates is a MAJOR upside to having LTSB. People just don't need or want that crap, and it's only been meaningless bloat that's been added to Windows 10 with each bi-annual major update.

Microsoft tries to discourage people from using LTSB because Microsoft knows it's exactly what people want, and Microsoft wants any excuse to push out another bad patch that resets people's telemetry, default app, and other settings to the MS-preferred (because it gives them more data) configuration.

Docker for linux and the new bash subsystems require 1709 minimum to run.... LTSB is for large enterprises so they only have to focus on testing security patches.
 

Chupachup

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Like the ones on smartphones ~99% of people carry around with them ~99% of the time? Or am I just being paranoid, now?

But in all seriousness, I've been using Cortana on my PC and phone for over a year; in that time it's evolved from a novelty to a pretty awesome tool I'd definitely rather not make do without. If it keeps evolving at this pace, I could see it actually fulfilling the role of a personal assistant within a couple years. And beyond that, who knows? The Skynet's the limit!
I would like to see it "evolve" to an OPT-IN product made available from the Microsoft Store. If it's as great a product as Microsoft states there shouldn't be an issue doing so.
 

heatlesssun

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There's nothing "10 specific" about 4K or high-DPI. 8.1 handles both well enough for the tradeoffs in 10 not to be worth it; and I can't speak to 7 but obviously it handles 4k.

A lot more options in the lastest build of Windows 10 compared to 8.1:https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/100793-turn-off-fix-scaling-apps-blurry-windows-10-a.html

No mention of 8.1 or 7 here:

Windows
  • Added high-DPI monitor support when running under Windows 10 with the 2017 Creators Update
  • Added a checkbox under Settings - Interface to disable high-DPI scaling (applies to Win10 only)

https://store.steampowered.com/news/38412/


But the fact its been nearly 3 years and the best you can come up with for what's better in 10 is "Well high-DPI is a little less broken" just proves the rule:

At this point it not only less broken, it's actually not bad especially for apps that advantage of the new APIs in 10 to handle scaling, like the Steam client. And it is a big deal since looking at the screen is central to using a PC. When text and objects are clear and readable it is a MUCH better.
 

4884

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And no updates outside of that Servicing Branch, either. If you need something from 1709 but you are on 1607, you are screwed, you cannot update to major feature updates.
I'm glad I don't receive any "feature update" on my ltsb machine, as my main drive is a intel pro 6000p ssd, which apparently a lovely new feature in the april update breaks.
 

ManofGod

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I'm glad I don't receive any "feature update" on my ltsb machine, as my main drive is a intel pro 6000p ssd, which apparently a lovely new feature in the april update breaks.

……..right up until you play a game or do something that requires an update you simply cannot receive. LTSB would be like using Windows 7 non SP1 and not be able to install SP1 because it is LTSB. As long as what you need works, great, until it doesn't.
 

Delicieuxz

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But you are stuck, what, 3 major revisions behind now? Can't run docker linux containers, or the latest bash subsystem. I had to change the license on my laptop once I realized I couldn't update to the latest version to get those features.

Docker for linux and the new bash subsystems require 1709 minimum to run....

3 revisions and 0 important features to the average user. Docker and Bash are special-use tools, and like most-all users of Windows 10, are not relevant to me. If that's what you need, or find useful, then use a Windows 10 version with them. Windows 10 LTSB 2019 will likely have them.

And like I said in my previous post, feature updates in Windows 10 mean that stuff breaks - which is why I turn off Windows Update in Win 10. So, if I wanted to update to a version of W10 with those tools, I'd be doing a fresh installation, anyway.

LTSB is for large enterprises so they only have to focus on testing security patches.

How can that be when LTSB is more feature-full than Windows 7, and Windows 7 already has everything most everybody needs? Obviously, LTSB is a lot more relevant that comment of yours recognizes.


……..right up until you play a game or do something that requires an update you simply cannot receive. LTSB would be like using Windows 7 non SP1 and not be able to install SP1 because it is LTSB. As long as what you need works, great, until it doesn't.

Considering that all new games run on Windows 7 (except for Microsoft Store exclusives, which people don't play anyway because they're Microsoft Store exclusives), why would an update be required on Windows 10 to play a game?

LTSB is already more advanced than Windows 7 SP1, and Windows 7 SP1 is already advanced enough. The only things LTSB doesn't have are things the average person has no use for, and stuff that most people don't want in their Windows, anyway.

You're trying to psyke people into thinking they need feature updates for the sake of having feature updates. But what's in those updates isn't changing the core system, and is almost entirely frills not used by most people.

How come certain people are unconditional shills for Microsoft propaganda and marketing desires? Do you work for Microsoft?
 

heatlesssun

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Considering that all new games run on Windows 7 (except for Microsoft Store exclusives, which people don't play anyway because they're Microsoft Store exclusives), why would an update be required on Windows 10 to play a game?

Some people do play them though. And there VR titles here and there listed on Steam that list themselves as 10 only. Not sure how accurate that is always, Surperhot VR for instance lists Windows 10 as the minimum but I've read that isn't the case. Nonetheless, anything new, hardware or software, for Windows currently is going to be Windows 10 compatible and in time Windows 7 support will degrade. That happens with EVERY out of support version of Windows which 7 is soon to become, at least in the consumer space.
 

ManofGod

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3 revisions and 0 important features to the average user. Docker and Bash are special-use tools, and like most-all users of Windows 10, are not relevant to me. If that's what you need, or find useful, then use a Windows 10 version with them. Windows 10 LTSB 2019 will likely have them.

And like I said in my previous post, feature updates in Windows 10 mean that stuff breaks - which is why I turn off Windows Update in Win 10. So, if I wanted to update to a version of W10 with those tools, I'd be doing a fresh installation, anyway.



How can that be when LTSB is more feature-full than Windows 7, and Windows 7 already has everything most everybody needs? Obviously, LTSB is a lot more relevant that comment of yours recognizes.




Considering that all new games run on Windows 7 (except for Microsoft Store exclusives, which people don't play anyway because they're Microsoft Store exclusives), why would an update be required on Windows 10 to play a game?

LTSB is already more advanced than Windows 7 SP1, and Windows 7 SP1 is already advanced enough. The only things LTSB doesn't have are things the average person has no use for, and stuff that most people don't want in their Windows, anyway.

You're trying to psyke people into thinking they need feature updates for the sake of having feature updates. But what's in those updates isn't changing the core system, and is almost entirely frills not used by most people.

How come certain people are unconditional shills for Microsoft propaganda and marketing desires? Do you work for Microsoft?

Nope, I am not trying to "pskye" people into anything, just sharing facts as they are, whether you can to accept those facts or not. Oh well, I see we are now in the shill accusations because you have run out of a legit argument, enjoy that lonely path you are on. :D )
 

heatlesssun

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And like I said in my previous post, feature updates in Windows 10 mean that stuff breaks - which is why I turn off Windows Update in Win 10.

Then someone doesn't install an important update and get hits with malware using a flaw that was long patched. Updates in any software introduce risk. But not updating critical software in this day and age probably introduces far more risk.
 

Delicieuxz

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Nope, I am not trying to "pskye" people into anything, just sharing facts as they are, whether you can to accept those facts or not. Oh well, I see we are now in the shill accusations because you have run out of a legit argument, enjoy that lonely path you are on. :D )

You're saying everything you can to try to psyke people into thinking that they need the MS-recommended Win 10 version and all the latest feature updates. It's painfully obvious.

And it's you that has no argument and so keeps recycling the FUD over not having feature updates - when not having the updates that just break stuff while adding nothing wanted is the wish of most Windows owners.
 

Draxanoth

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Then someone doesn't install an important update and get hits with malware using a flaw that was long patched. Updates in any software introduce risk. But not updating critical software in this day and age probably introduces far more risk.
The likelihood of having something you need rendered out of service by Windows updates is probably much higher now than the odds of a security intrusion. Maybe I was late to the party, we still had XP on the majority of systems in 2010, but I don't recall that ever being the scenario when we were on 7. Pre-SP1 Vista... maybe. Almost every person who ends up with Roman Bellic's Most Fantastic Internet Toolbar nowadays get it from user failure, not system failure. Of course if you have your PC in a DMZ with no firewall and a sea of open ports, results may vary.
 

heatlesssun

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The likelihood of having something you need rendered out of service by Windows updates is probably much higher now than the odds of a security intrusion. Maybe I was late to the party, we still had XP on the majority of systems in 2010, but I don't recall that ever being the scenario when we were on 7. Pre-SP1 Vista... maybe. Almost every person who ends up with Roman Bellic's Most Fantastic Internet Toolbar nowadays get it from user failure, not system failure. Of course if you have your PC in a DMZ with no firewall and a sea of open ports, results may vary.

I've always kept my personal Windows fully patched on done on Patch Tuesdays forever now. Stuff happens but over the years that's work very well for me. With the number of Windows devices out there of course there are always going to be problems with patches and definitely with the way Windows 10 does feature updates. But what is the incident rate? Even if were just 1% that's still a shit ton of devices.

In a place like this though you get a lot of Windows 10 blow back and you hear a ton of things. Like someone in thread mentioning how their wallpaper got delete from updating to 1803. I've done like 100 feature updates, counting all the devices I've had running Windows 10 over three years, plus Insider builds. Stuff happens but deleting files? Ok, anything can happen but that's just so totally like how did that happen? Plus it's not like I don't have backups for all of my data.
 
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Just killed my lappy (kaby) with with a bad driver and decided to upgrade to win 8.1 . Was a little tricky but a modded driver got intel hd working just fine along with all the other supposedly win10 only drivers. Now laptop just runs soo much cooler and quieter as a result with all the same software installed . Best PC mod by a long shot. The only negative thing i encountered was a slightly lower battery life ( doesn't seem to throttle as hard as win10).
 

knowom

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I don't see what's to complain about. I find windows 10 mostly good despite having to butcher it a lot more. Which is a bit of a problem because it's got more to butcher. It's got it's pro's and it's con's, but DirectX 12 I rest my case accept your Microsoft overlord.
 

heatlesssun

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Just killed my lappy (kaby) with with a bad driver and decided to upgrade to win 8.1 . Was a little tricky but a modded driver got intel hd working just fine along with all the other supposedly win10 only drivers. Now laptop just runs soo much cooler and quieter as a result with all the same software installed . Best PC mod by a long shot. The only negative thing i encountered was a slightly lower battery life ( doesn't seem to throttle as hard as win10).

How is it running much cooler and quieter and not getting better battery life? On Skylake mobile or better one should be getting better batter life compared to 7 & 8.1 as there were a lot of power efficiency enhancements added to Skylake that have been incorporated into 10. One nice feature is the CPU power control states in the battery flyout. When cranked to recommended or battery saver on Kaby Lake I don't see how that device wouldn't be getting much better life under 10. Unfortunately I've never come across anyone doing a scientific battery test with modern hardware running 10 and comparing to prior versions.
 

SmokeRngs

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Like the ones on smartphones ~99% of people carry around with them ~99% of the time? Or am I just being paranoid, now?

But in all seriousness, I've been using Cortana on my PC and phone for over a year; in that time it's evolved from a novelty to a pretty awesome tool I'd definitely rather not make do without. If it keeps evolving at this pace, I could see it actually fulfilling the role of a personal assistant within a couple years. And beyond that, who knows? The Skynet's the limit!

Here's the deal. Myself and many others would like a "personal digital assistant" for daily use. There are definitely times I'd love to be able to tell my computer or phone to do something or search for something; just simple stuff. However, what we have are MS digital spying assistant, Samsung digital spying assistant, Google digital spying assistant, etc. These are not Personal digital assistants. Even if they worked the way the companies claim they work, everything you use them for gets sent to said company. I don't want that. Many other people don't want that. Those assistants can never be "personal" for the simple fact that every little thing you have them do is sent to be processed and stored on a company server. As I said, that's assuming those assistants aren't actually listening all the time and sending back information even when they're not supposed to be. And there have been too many instances of people suddenly seeing ads for something they mentioned in a discussion five minutes or an hour previous even when the phone wasn't involved in the discussion.

Simply put, I want a personal digital assistant I have control over. I want one that only does what I tell it to do. I want one which never sends any data or information I didn't specifically tell it to. I want it to be Personal. I would pay money for this. I'm willing to bet many others would pay money for this as well.
 

M76

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What happened to all the Trekkies?

Who doesn't want to have full voice control/ui?

Yes. It still sucks from a SciFi perspective. Getting better.

I'd love to be able to verbally cast in Skyrim for example.
To me voice commands always seemed inefficient and unreliable. It can relate information verbally, that's no problem. But issuing commands is more reliable and faster using physical interfaces. As in it takes much less time to press 2-3 keys than it is to utter a sentence and there is no chance for the voice recognition to misunderstand it. Especially in a noisy environment.
 
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Cortana is about 100 IQ points higher than Siri, and was better than google assistant. Man do I miss my windows phone....reading text to me over bluetooth and letting me reply via voice, all ootb.
 

Spire3660

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What happened to all the Trekkies?

Who doesn't want to have full voice control/ui?

Yes. It still sucks from a SciFi perspective. Getting better.

I'd love to be able to verbally cast in Skyrim for example.


Star Trek is voice COMMAND, not an 'assistant'. Captain Kirk still had a personal yeoman for that.
 

heatlesssun

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Star Trek is voice COMMAND, not an 'assistant'. Captain Kirk still had a personal yeoman for that.

In TNG, they go well beyond the concept of current digital assistants with actual interactive holograms based on real people, using all sorts of data to create the programs.
 

Spire3660

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In TNG, they go well beyond the concept of current digital assistants with actual interactive holograms based on real people, using all sorts of data to create the programs.


Which is treated as fantasy. The only 'productivity' we saw on the Holodeck was Lt. Barclay becoming a near-god using it, and Cpt. Sisko used a Holosuite to find B'hala.
 

DeathFromBelow

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In TNG, they go well beyond the concept of current digital assistants with actual interactive holograms based on real people, using all sorts of data to create the programs.

And look how well that worked out. Lt. Barclay ends up addicted to virtual Troi, the character Moriarty becomes as smart as Data and hijacks the ship, a redshirt gets shot when the holodeck controls get overidden...
 

Biznatch

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3 revisions and 0 important features to the average user. Docker and Bash are special-use tools, and like most-all users of Windows 10, are not relevant to me. If that's what you need, or find useful, then use a Windows 10 version with them. Windows 10 LTSB 2019 will likely have them.

And like I said in my previous post, feature updates in Windows 10 mean that stuff breaks - which is why I turn off Windows Update in Win 10. So, if I wanted to update to a version of W10 with those tools, I'd be doing a fresh installation, anyway.



How can that be when LTSB is more feature-full than Windows 7, and Windows 7 already has everything most everybody needs? Obviously, LTSB is a lot more relevant that comment of yours recognizes.




Considering that all new games run on Windows 7 (except for Microsoft Store exclusives, which people don't play anyway because they're Microsoft Store exclusives), why would an update be required on Windows 10 to play a game?

LTSB is already more advanced than Windows 7 SP1, and Windows 7 SP1 is already advanced enough. The only things LTSB doesn't have are things the average person has no use for, and stuff that most people don't want in their Windows, anyway.

You're trying to psyke people into thinking they need feature updates for the sake of having feature updates. But what's in those updates isn't changing the core system, and is almost entirely frills not used by most people.

How come certain people are unconditional shills for Microsoft propaganda and marketing desires? Do you work for Microsoft?


All LTSB is is an old branch with a much slower patch schedules. It's not some magical secret OS that gets rid of all the bad things.... You could do the same thing by installing windows 10, 4 versions back and disable updates..... But, if you're disabling updated on the LTSB branch, I'm sorry but you're naively running an insecure OS as you've missed months of security patches. If you want to keep an insecure OS, go for it, but don't flaunt it around the forum like you have the best version of 10, when you are more insecure than most. It's not some secret branch, it was literally for enterprises to run so they can focus on security patches, not feature updates...

And I'm not the one trying to psych people into anything, unlike you (incorrectly) going on about how great running LTSB is. It was stated that there were no useful features being pushed, and I pointed out 2 actually useful features. It doesn't matter if you find them usefull, the question wasn't "what features have they pusheed out that are useful for YOU?".......
 
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Delicieuxz

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All LTSB is is an old branch with a much slower patch schedules. It's not some magical secret OS that gets rid of all the bad things....

That's actually exactly what it is:

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...ches-cb-cbb-and-ltsb-semi-annual-channel.aspx

"LTSC (Long Term Servicing Channel)
Programs like Edge, Cortana, Store, Outlook Mail, Outlook Calendar, OneNote, Weather, News, Sports, Money, Photos, Camera, Music, Clock, and the Store are not available.

Long term Servicing Channel for Windows 10 is identical to old versions of Windows where users receive Security Updates and bug fixes every month but no new features and enhancements will be installed. Minimum length of servicing lifetime of LTSC is 10 years."


If a person wants an OS to be a traditional, fully functional OS and not a grab-bag of accessories, and to have that core OS to provide a consistent and stable OS experience just like Windows 7, and without any of the compromising and frustrating strings that are attached to mainstream editions of Windows 10, then LTSB is the best choice there is.


Pick which suits your needs better:

LTSB:

Maximum stability
Full control
Consistent experience
The most privacy
Reliable


Mainstream Windows 10 editions:

Not as stable
Control-limited
Inconsistent experience
Not as private
Includes a large assortment of accessory software, some of which cannot be uninstalled


For me, there is nothing outside of LTSB that is needed or remotely attractive. For me, everything that is different in the non-LTSB editions is very unattractive.


You could do the same thing by installing windows 10, 4 versions back and disable updates.....

That wouldn't be the same thing as LTSB. Each bi-annual update of Windows 10 comes with new issues. LTSB doesn't follow the same release schedule as mainstream Windows 10 releases, and is specifically tested and refined for stability before it is released.

Having a regular Windows 10 AU installation would mean that you have unwanted accessory software like Cortana, the Microsoft Store, and a bunch of stock bloatware, and ads. It would also mean you don't have access to reduced telemetry levels (unless you have an Enterprise edition). You also would have issues disabling Windows Update to not receive feature updates - even in the Enterprise edition, which generates full-screen messages telling the person they need to update their system after 2 months have gone by without downloading the latest updates.

The last part might be preventable by disabling the Windows Update service itself, which worked in prior version of Windows 10. But, word is that the Windows Update service now automatically restarts itself when it's disabled. Still I think it can be disabled by turning off its service restart rules. I haven't yet tried this myself, though (I just stopped using Windows 10 Enterprise and went back to Windows 7, where everything feels and works much better for me).


But, if you're disabling updated on the LTSB branch, I'm sorry but you're naively running an insecure OS as you've missed months of security patches. If you want to keep an insecure OS, go for it, but don't flaunt it around the forum like you have the best version of 10, when you are more insecure than most.

Security patches for non-businesses are a fail-safe for poor online habits. To get a virus, you have to click or open or run something that contains a virus. If you know the sites you visit, and you don't open random spam links or downloads from your email, then you aren't going to get a virus.

I back up my PC. And I've run OSes without any patches for years without issue. I'm not naive, I'm informed. Viruses are a result of having unsafe online habits.

Also, one of the main benefits of LTSB is that a person can receive security updates without having them bundled with unwanted feature updates.


It's not some secret branch, it was literally for enterprises to run so they can focus on security patches, not feature updates...

LTSB is for a lot more than that. And that's like saying that Windows 7 and Windows 8 are for enterprises to run for testing. They're not receiving feature updates, either. They also don't have Microsoft Store, Cortana, Edge, etc. And yet a huge number of people, even most people, are still using one of those two OSes. I guess they didn't get the memo that Windows 7 and 8 are for Enterprise test environments? So, what have people been doing for the past 9 years (and still now) on those OSes?


And I'm not the one trying to psych people into anything

Well, I don't think that I said you were.


It was stated that there were no useful features being pushed, and I pointed out 2 actually useful features. It doesn't matter if you find them usefull, the question wasn't "what features have they pusheed out that are useful for YOU?".......

I'm glad those are useful for you. I said that there are 0 new features (since Windows 7 SP1) that are useful to the average user. The average user isn't a network admin used to Linux and Unix and benefiting from having its sub-systems in Windows. That said, I do acknowledge that it is a positive and good feature to have them there, and will benefit many people - just not the average user.

The mainstream audience used Windows 7 SP1 for 6+ years without any new features in that time, and didn't suffer for it. Microsoft starts adding new features every 6 months, and now magically people NEED new features constantly? Nothing's changed. And the fact that the features are almost entirely bloat prove that there is nothing about new features for the sake of new features that is useful.
 
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heatlesssun

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I'm glad those are useful for you. I said that there are 0 new features (since Windows 7 SP1) that are useful to the average user.

This is far too broad of a statement. One obvious thing, a far larger number of touch devices running Windows 10 than 7 which is far better with touch than 7. While I know most in thread like this disregard touch, its such a common feature on laptops and 2 in 1s that a lot of people must be using it.
 

Biznatch

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That's actually exactly what it is:

too much to quote..... and a bunch of broad statements soley based on your individual use, and obvious hate of win10......


Sorry, you lost me when you said you can only get a virus/malware by clicking things. IT/security manager here, and that is absolutely not true with the vulnerabilities coming out recently. If you don't have anything malicious installed already (and that's a BIG if), you will soon enough.

Funny though, you're literally the use case for MS forcing patches and not allowing users to postpone forever. They all think they are secure too because they know better and 'dont click on things'. And all those features removed from LTSB can be removed with a single PS script, that's already been written for you and posted all over online, including disabling telemetry.... So the only thing you gain with LTSB is an insecure system (by choice).
 

Delicieuxz

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Sorry, you lost me when you said you can only get a virus/malware by clicking things. IT/security manager here, and that is absolutely not true with the vulnerabilities coming out recently. If you don't have anything malicious installed already (and that's a BIG if), you will soon enough.

Visiting a site with malicious code injected into it is also clicking things - as in, the link for that site. If you visit shady sites, or a lot of sites you are unfamiliar with, then that's also an example of poor online habits.

I've been using Windows for 2.5 decades and know where viruses I've gotten have come from, and have seen over the years of not updating Windows OSes that they simply do not come when safe browsing habits are employed. And in case they do, I back up my system. But I haven't ever had to use a backup.

If you visit unknown and sketch sites, download warez, open links or download and run files from unknown email senders, or click on bait that you see in comments sections... those are the places you can get viruses. And all of those things require the system user to click stuff to get a virus onto their system. And to click on those things requires the system user to not understand what is a trustworthy link and what isn't.

Granted, that understanding is something that comes from years of growing familiarity - which new and infrequent users, and casual users, likely haven't developed. Buy my point here is that there isn't an unconditional rule about Windows updates to dogmatically subscribe to.

The point is, viruses don't appear someplace by magic. If not from a malicious hack, then they require system user interaction, of the uninformed type, to invite the virus in. And there is no better protection against viruses than informed safe online habits. Everything else is a fail-safe.


Funny though, you're literally the use case for MS forcing patches and not allowing users to postpone forever.

That's a fallacious statement. People not updating Windows is not the argument for forcing people to update their Windows. That's saying that people have to update Windows regardless of anything, and so it doesn't matter how a person who doesn't update their Windows conducts themselves.

People don't want the option to not update Windows just so that they can show Microsoft they'll update it on their own, as if the option is about showing what good little soulless trained dogs they can be. They want the option to not update Windows because it is relevant and important for various people to be able to not update Windows. And Microsoft's bi-annual major Windows 10 revision schedule and the re-installation of programs and the re-setting of user configurations are major powerful arguments for why having the ability to not update Windows is essential.

Sorry, but to me you sound incredibly naive and inexperienced - whether you're IT or not. You sound like one of the (too many) very arrogant and smug IT out there who think a few years of training gave them a license to think everyone else is dumber than they are. It's a false sense of superiority.


They all think they are secure too because they know better and 'dont click on things'. And all those features removed from LTSB can be removed with a single PS script, that's already been written for you and posted all over online, including disabling telemetry....

Cortana was more deeply integrated into Windows a couple of major updates ago, and it doesn't simply turn off, from what I've read. And due to its deeper integration into the system, trying to remove it at a deeper level can break things.

Apps and services disabled and removed in mainstream editions of Windows 10 are re-installed and re-enabled every 6 months with the major bi-annual updates.

The arguments you're presenting are non-arguments.


So the only thing you gain with LTSB is an insecure system (by choice).

So, you really don't know what LTSB is. You say you're IT and yet you don't know that LTSB receives security updates? It's no less secure than mainstream Windows 10 editions.
 
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Simmonz

2[H]4U
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
2,506
When Microsoft wants something it's like sex with Kobe Bryant. You can kick and scream all you want but it's, it's gonna happen.

Not entirely true. Using Windows is a choice. There are other options that won't rape you.
 
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