Core i3, Win 7 64 Bit, 16 Gb Ram, Samsung EVO SSD, Yet desktop refresh is slow

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Plainman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
171
Hi Guys,

My system : Core i3, Asus P8H77 motherboard, Win 7 64 Bit, 16 Gb Ram, OS on Samsung EVO SSD via 6Gbps port.

Fresh OS install. Just a few essential software installed. Hardly using 20% of the SSD. Still my desktop blinks for 1-2 full seconds when i hit refresh by right clicking or by F5. Seems sluggish and leads me to believe thats a sign maybe my entire system is running slow or maybe only the desktop icons are acting up.

Either way is there something i could do for this ?

Thanks in advance.
 
Are you sure you have the correct display drivers installed? If yes, uninstall your antivirus package completely and reboot. Is the computer still slow?

One of the safest ways to bog down your computer is installing an antivirus. Kaspersky, Panda etc. can have really horrible effects on performance especially if you have had Microsoft security essentials also running or some software package has slipped in McAfee antivirus. Norton is down right malware and you need a special uninstallation tool from Norton website to completely remove it. If you installed the Avira package and didn't disable the 'performance boost' tool in it, it may completely bog down your computer also by eating up a full core or two.

When two antiviruses start battling for resources you can kiss your desktop performance goodbye.
 
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Third party antivirus is a relic of the past and as B00nie has stated, kills performance.

Windows Defender is so good now and so lean on system resources that the only other package I recommend is Malwarebytes these days.
 
Hi Guys !

I have only AVG Free installed ? Should i uninstall it ? What is windows defender ? I would love to have no AntiVirus installed on my system. Where do i get Windows Defender please ?
 
B00nie said:
Are you sure you have the correct display drivers installed? If yes, uninstall your antivirus package completely and reboot. Is the computer still slow?.
Click to expand...

I have installed the correct express chipset graphics drivers and then Nvidia drivers because of the Nvidia Graphics Card i have in the system.
 
Plainman said:
I have installed the correct express chipset graphics drivers and then Nvidia drivers because of the Nvidia Graphics Card i have in the system.
Click to expand...

Try to completely uninstall (not just turn off) your antivirus, reboot and if the performance is restored then AVG is your problem. If the problem persists you can install AVG again and continue troubleshooting.

Have you checked with your resource monitor if anything is hogging up your CPU when the operation is sluggish?
 
Since it's a Windows 7 installation, Microsoft Security Essentials is highly recommended to keep it lean and mean and operating (fairly) clean.

As for the lag, I would suggest using the DPC Latency Checker for a few minutes when you're using the machine and see if you get some odd or very high spikes in DPC which tend to be driver related more often than not and can be discovered fairly easy by disabling devices one at a time in a troubleshooting run. Network drivers, especially those for WiFi devices, tend to cause insane DPC spikes which leads to overall system sluggishness and that kind of "hang time" you described.

As for the SSD, you might consider using the Samsung Magician software to check the drive using the diagnostic just to make sure it's good to go, and also look into the storage controller drivers (not always part of the chipset drivers, actually). For Intel hardware there can be the traditional chipset driver as well as one (the Rapid Storage Technology stuff) for the SATA controller(s) which can't hurt to be as updated as the latest ones available.
 
If you're going to use third party AV, I recommend AVIRA. Effective but lean on system resources with just a little advertising at times in the lower right corner.

AVG is an intrusive PITA, I've had issues with installing modern games due to AVG Free that simply disabling the AV wouldn't resolve - I had to completely uninstall it before certain games would install.
 
Tiberian said:
As for the SSD, you might consider using the Samsung Magician software to check the drive using the diagnostic just to make sure it's good to go, and also look into the storage controller drivers (not always part of the chipset drivers, actually). For Intel hardware there can be the traditional chipset driver as well as one (the Rapid Storage Technology stuff) for the SATA controller(s) which can't hurt to be as updated as the latest ones available.
Click to expand...

This is interesting because I've never actually tried Samsung Magician on a PC not equipped with a Samsung SSD. Does the software work even if you don't have a Samsung drive installed?
 
Nope, it's just for Samsung retail SSDs since the 830 series was released. I actually own an OEM model of the 830, sold by Dell in their Latitude laptop line, and because it's an OEM model the Magician software won't recognize the drive or do a damned thing with it which really pisses me off. Yes it's an "old" SSD by comparison to all the new ones nowadays but hey, it still works (has about 10% wear on it according to CrystalDiskInfo and the S.M.A.R.T. wear leveling count attribute) but it's still useful.

I had hoped the Magician software would let me make use of that drive caching thing, "Rapid Mode," but because it won't work with this OEM model there goes that idea. Kinda lame when manufacturers artificially restrict shit for no really good reasons, but it happens just the same.
 
Tiberian said:
Nope, it's just for Samsung retail SSDs since the 830 series was released. I actually own an OEM model of the 830, sold by Dell in their Latitude laptop line, and because it's an OEM model the Magician software won't recognize the drive or do a damned thing with it which really pisses me off. Yes it's an "old" SSD by comparison to all the new ones nowadays but hey, it still works (has about 10% wear on it according to CrystalDiskInfo and the S.M.A.R.T. wear leveling count attribute) but it's still useful.

I had hoped the Magician software would let me make use of that drive caching thing, "Rapid Mode," but because it won't work with this OEM model there goes that idea. Kinda lame when manufacturers artificially restrict shit for no really good reasons, but it happens just the same.
Click to expand...

It's really annoying when they actually have some effective utilities that could be handy in many scenarios. I remember in the day Maxtor had software called Maxblast that used to clone HDD's a treat, the software worked with all products, not just Maxtor HDD's - That's the way it should be.
 
There is a secret setting in the magician software that enables a hidden turbo boost setting.
 
B00nie said:
There is a secret setting in the magician software that enables a hidden turbo boost setting.
Click to expand...

Hard to tell if being facetious, no smiley present. ;)

Anyway, Rapid Mode basically just sucks up some system RAM to make a larger disk cache that gives the impression of things being much faster because of course it's a cache utility; it doesn't actually make transfers to or from the SSD in question any faster than the SSD's hardware allows for but, it does help keep a system running more smoothly I suppose. I had a Samsung 850 EVO for a short period of time and it did help smooth out instances where I was really hitting the SSD hard meaning if Rapid Mode wasn't enabled it would have caused some overall lag and delay on the transfer activities,

Even the best SSD hardware out there is still limited by the one thing that can't be alleviated: any given storage device can read at one moment or write at one moment but they still can't do both at the same time on an individual device and of course pure physical RAM is still faster than anything else in any storage field even today.
 
What is the exact model # of the EVO drive that you have. The 840 EVO series had a bug and would basically revert to hdd speed reading older files. When mentioning specs it's always a good idea to give the full model name of the parts like on your i3.

The Magician software has a built in benchmarking tool, "Performance Benchmark" i think, run it and post the results.
The tool will also check to see if the SSD has the latest firmware.

I would not enable Rapid mode until you have figured out what the problem is.
Are you running the latest bios on the mb. It's currently at Version 1905.

edit
Why did you have to do a "fresh" install?
 
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Jim Kim said:
What is the exact model # of the EVO drive that you have. The 840 EVO series had a bug and would basically revert to hdd speed reading older files. When mentioning specs it's always a good idea to give the full model name of the parts like on your i3.

The Magician software has a built in benchmarking tool, "Performance Benchmark" i think, run it and post the results.
The tool will also check to see if the SSD has the latest firmware.

I would not enable Rapid mode until you have figured out what the problem is.
Are you running the latest bios on the mb. It's currently at Version 1905.

edit
Why did you have to do a "fresh" install?
Click to expand...

Im using the 750 EVO model. You mean my BIOS should be version 1905 ? Ill check immediately.

The fresh install is because i had this processor and motherboard lying idle in another system which was never used for years. Brand new. Got it for a mission specific system and then i never used it after. So i migrated that board and processor into my workstation (which earlier had a Core 2 Duo E8400 and an Intel DG33FB MB.). I use this system for only video and photo editing. So the SSD is always like a fresh install only. As in it has only the OS, a few relevant codecs, my video edit software and photoshop and Adobe Flash authoring. Thats almost a fresh install since nothing else ever gets installed and it isnt even hooked to the internet.
 
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Plainman said:
Im using the 750 EVO model. You mean my BIOS should be version 1905 ? Ill check immediately.

The fresh install is because i had this processor and motherboard lying idle in another system which was never used for years. Brand new. Got it for a mission specific system and then i never used it after. So i migrated that board and processor into my workstation (which earlier had a Core 2 Duo E8400 and an Intel DG33FB MB.). I use this system for only video and photo editing. So the SSD is always like a fresh install only. As in it has only the OS, a few relevant codecs, my video edit software and photoshop and Adobe Flash authoring. Thats almost a fresh install since nothing else ever gets installed and it isnt even hooked to the internet.
Click to expand...
Sorry, i was not clear. The bios(1905) i mentioned was for your motherboard.
The Magician software will check your SSD to see if it requires new firmware or bios.
Just because you plugged the SSD into a 6GBps port does not mean it automatically is running at max speed.
I did the same on my build with a 840 Pro and was only getting HDD speeds. In a chat with Samsung tech support, I changed the port and voila, all of a sudden my SSD was running at full speed.
Don't know what I did wrong and don't care but it was fixed.

If the system is not hooked to the internet it's my guess that a driver, or performmance enhancing windows update (if there is such a thing) ... is old or missing causing an issue. ie. it might not even be SSD related.

Have you installed the Samsung Magician software and ran the performance benchmark?
It will also let you know if you have trim enabled on the SSD.
 
Your RAM may have defaulted to the slowest speed and not using it's Intel XMP profile. Check it in the BIOS and set accordingly.

That memory setting will go back to slow default after bios updates and mb resets.
 
Processor - Intel Core i3 - 2100 @ 3.1 Ghz. 3 MB Cache. Socket - LGA-1155.
Motherboard - Asus P8H77-M. Socket - LGA-1155.
Graphics Card - Zotac Nvidia GeForce 210. 1 GB. DDR3. 64 Bit.
8GB Kingston Fury DDR3 1866 Mhz Ram x 2 Sticks.
Samsung Evo 750 - 120gb.
 
I think due to my motherboard's FSB limitation or something , the XMP profile wont kick in and the Ram will work at only 1333 mhz ? I came across this info when i was buying and installing that ram.
 
That kind of ram speed difference won't make any noticeable change in system response. Your problem probably is I/O related. Is your mobo configured to use AHCI?
 
I'm with B00nie, it's not going to be a ram speed issue, you could run that ram at the slowest speed it's capable of and still not percieve the difference when navigating the desktop.

When the system is lagging, what is your CPU, mem and HDD usage according to Task Manager?
 
B00nie said:
That kind of ram speed difference won't make any noticeable change in system response. Your problem probably is I/O related. Is your mobo configured to use AHCI?
Click to expand...
Yes Boonie, Its running in AHCI mode in the BIOS screen.
 
BulletDust said:
When the system is lagging, what is your CPU, mem and HDD usage according to Task Manager?
Click to expand...

As such when i hit refresh and the icons blink for a second ? Hmmm hardly 10% CPU, MEM is mostly at 10-20% given that i have 16GB. When i edit videos or during photoshop at times the MEM goes to 50%. HDDs i dont know at that moment when i hit refresh what its doing since i dont know how to check. The first 2 i know because i have a CPU/RAM meter gadget on the desktop.

Crystal Disk Mark shows 512 MB/s seq read and write on my SSD.
 
Plainman said:
As such when i hit refresh and the icons blink for a second ? Hmmm hardly 10% CPU, MEM is mostly at 10-20% given that i have 16GB. When i edit videos or during photoshop at times the MEM goes to 50%. HDDs i dont know at that moment when i hit refresh what its doing since i dont know how to check. The first 2 i know because i have a CPU/RAM meter gadget on the desktop.

Crystal Disk Mark shows 512 MB/s seq read and write on my SSD.
Click to expand...

Heh, gadgets on desktop? Try disabling those and see if it's still slow to refresh ;)

Also, I can't recall a time in my past history where I would have had the need to 'refresh' the desktop view. Why do you even need to do that?
 
B00nie said:
That kind of ram speed difference won't make any noticeable change in system response. Your problem probably is I/O related. Is your mobo configured to use AHCI?
Click to expand...

I was about to say hey your SSD has one of the better IO controllers in the business, so disable your IO scheduler. Then I noticed I'm in the windows thread.... (joking really)

Seriously though I have to ask what BOOnie is asking, why are you constantly refreshing your desktop ? Is the folder not updating as it should ? Windows uses auto refresh which should work... if it isn't working properly you can look at solutions like killing your icondb cache ect. Windows 7 had a few issues with not always refreshing years back but I thought MS had fixed all that.

Seeing as refreshing is rescanning your desktop folder, I think the simple question may be do you have anything in your desktop folder (I refuse to say on your desktop sorry I know I'm an annoying neck beard). Do you have a network drive linked ? If you do rescanning that could take a sec. Do you have symbolic links to a secondary storage drive that perhaps is in a low power sleep state when you hit refresh, or USB backup external drive ? I haven't used windows in a few ticks but as I understand how the F5 desktop folder refresh works such things could potentially slow things down... I would think a symbolic link to a USB backdrive that has went to sleep or a network could be a simple answer. If you do have such links and you are one of the types that is just a compulsive F5 smacker you could consider moving them out of that folder.
 
I suggest removing the Zotac card and running off the onboard video to see if that changes anything. (Process of elimination and all that. :) )
 
ManofGod said:
I suggest removing the Zotac card and running off the onboard video to see if that changes anything. (Process of elimination and all that. :) )
Click to expand...
^This
The igpu will more than handle what you do with that system and I doubt the Nvidia GeForce 210 is much faster, if any.
Plainman said:
Crystal Disk Mark shows 512 MB/s seq read and write on my SSD.
Click to expand...
That speed rules out the SSD and it is in AHCI mode, so you're good to go there.

How much data is on your desktop, sort of related to what ChadD said.
located at C:\Users\"your user name"\Desktop
Right click on your desktop folder, go to properties and post the size.
 
Start a command prompt(normal) and CD appdata\local\microsoft\windows\explorer

Delete everything in there. You might have to use task manager to kill explorer.exe

Then use task manager to File/Run a new explorer.exe. Reboot.
 
Wouldn't hurt to look at the Reliability history as well, just in case. Click the Start button or tap the Windows key on the keyboard and type:

relia (just those 5 letters will be enough)

and then wait for "View reliability history" to appear at the top of the menu and select it. If you're not seeing a nice thin blue line from left to right at the top (along the left side you can see where it ranges from 1 to 5 to 10 as the scale) then there's something going on with your system. You can safely ignore anything with the yellow ! point alerts or the blue circle "i" as long as the thin blue line in that column at the top shows 10.

If that line - the actual measure of reliability - is not at 10 in each column then you can go in and take a look at what caused it to not be at 10 (the most reliable aka no problems at all worth paying attention to).

Can't hurt to give that a gander in this troubleshooting process as well.
 
Jim Kim said:
^
How much data is on your desktop, sort of related to what ChadD said.
located at C:\Users\"your user name"\Desktop
Right click on your desktop folder, go to properties and post the size.
Click to expand...

Nothing is on my desktop. Honestly. As it would be if you just installed windows. Only the MY COMPUTER and RECYCLE BIN.
I never keep anything on my desktop. LOL. Always like to maintain it empty since im OCD.
Also as a policy since the SSD hosts the desktop i dont keep anything on it. Only the OS is running from the SSD with not files being put onto the desktop.
 
ChadD said:
Seeing as refreshing is rescanning your desktop folder, I think the simple question may be do you have anything in your desktop folder (I refuse to say on your desktop sorry I know I'm an annoying neck beard). Do you have a network drive linked ? If you do rescanning that could take a sec. Do you have symbolic links to a secondary storage drive that perhaps is in a low power sleep state when you hit refresh, or USB backup external drive ? I haven't used windows in a few ticks but as I understand how the F5 desktop folder refresh works such things could potentially slow things down... I would think a symbolic link to a USB backdrive that has went to sleep or a network could be a simple answer. If you do have such links and you are one of the types that is just a compulsive F5 smacker you could consider moving them out of that folder.
Click to expand...

None of the above. Honestly its a bare-bones system without any fancy customization.
 
Plainman said:
Nothing is on my desktop. Honestly. As it would be if you just installed windows. Only the MY COMPUTER and RECYCLE BIN.
I never keep anything on my desktop. LOL. Always like to maintain it empty since im OCD.
Also as a policy since the SSD hosts the desktop i dont keep anything on it. Only the OS is running from the SSD with not files being put onto the desktop.
Click to expand...

Ok well I guess you answered the question already in a round about way as you mention your OCD. Really though just don't refresh the desktop... as you say you have nothing on it anyway. So why refresh it. I mentioned I don't use windows on any of my own machines anymore but I don't remember ever having to hit F5 to refresh my desktop unless something was broken. F5 the odd misloaded webpage sure but not a windows desktop with nothing on it. :) I do seem to remember that refreshing the desktop on perfectly working machines always had a bit of a lag. (perhaps I'm way off though its been awhile as I say)
 
Just a sidenote if only your OS is running from the SSD all your applications are going to be slow to load since they use the slow spinner drive. You're wasting your SSD as you mainly use it only when you boot up.
 
I wonder whether part of the desktop lag issue has to do with the fact that everything's running off a spinner instead of the SSD?

I store photo's, music, downloads, video's and documents on spinners - But Windows really doesn't like software applications running off anything but the OS drive.
 
The only time I've personally seen serious desktop lag is when a crappy antivirus bogs down the system.

I remember one customer having Panda antivir enterprise and every desktop flashed desktop icons and cursor spinned about every 10 seconds. I would have gone nuts if I had to work on that lol.
 
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