Copper Foil Shortage

Krenum

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Your old Electronics might become more valuable in the near future...

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/motherboard-and-gpus-under-pressure-due-to-copper-foil-pricing

"Prices are surging for the copper and copper-clad laminates (CCLs) used to make printed circuit boards (PCBs), which are then used for pretty much every type of electronics device. According to reports from DigiTimes, the cost of manufacturing devices like PC motherboards and graphics cards is rising due to a copper foil shortage, nad now the question is how much of that cost the manufacturers will pass on to the end user. According to some of our quick calculations, the impact of the copper foil shortages could be most felt in lower-end devices, while more expensive premium products might see less of an impact due to already-inflated pricing".

"The price of copper went up from $7,755 per ton in December 2020 to $9,262 per ton today (September 28, 2021). The cost of copper foil surged 35% since Q4 2020 due to the rising prices of copper and energy carriers. As you would expect, the price for copper clad laminates (CCLs), a foundational component used for making PCBs, increased due to the costs associated with the prices of copper foil and energy. The trickle-down effect continues, and now price quotes for PCBs are increasing, too".
 

Nafensoriel

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Messages
382
If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.
 

Krenum

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If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.
Wrench, hell, these past couple of years I think the whole toolbox has been thrown into the mix, Covid, worker shortages, mandates, the list goes on.

I wonder if we are heading into a global depression?
 

sfsuphysics

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This is what happens when everything is a god damn commodity that can have "imaginary" amounts bought and sold by faceless individuals. Instead of something just being "the price" you can have someone without a warehouse effectively "buy it all up" then he can in turn sell to others without ever touching said item
 

clockdogg

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Well... that's it. My next motherboard will use point-to-point wiring... oh wait... don't even need the motherboard...
 

Wat

Limp Gawd
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Jun 23, 2019
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I hear that thar graphene makes a plum good conductor of dem sparkies. I got a pencil full o the stuff they'n ken use.
 

DPI

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If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.
Yep. And if you have a Prius - especially an older one- get your insurance up to snuff because catalytic converter theft is rampant. Particularly in California. A cop mentioned to me its outta control.
 
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sleepeeg3

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If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.
Pretty sure this has more to do with the dollar nonshortage than globalization. We printed enough dollars to increase the national debt by 31.3% since 1/19. Inflation is playing catchup. All these "shortages" are really a shortage of parts/labor at pre-pandemic prices. Those prices aren't coming back.
 

LukeTbk

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I feel there is some when you just have an hammer everything look like a nail, the motherboard maker in Taiwan buying Chinese copper foil made with south american or elsewhere copper that see a price increase has there is a crackdown on energy usage is not necessarily due to the American Fed decision or because American export of manufacturing capacity (if they were ever a big high end pc Motherboard maker in the past).

Same goes for passive speculator that never hoard the ressource, study after study it is not clear they have a significant effect if any.
 

Jagger100

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Real problem is Taiwan losing their ever loving sh.. over the pandemic. Their initial success with a tight border and security state wasn't going to last forever and they thought it would.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.

Its a trade-off.

When everything is working as intended it results in low cost manufacturing and materials that makes things possible that otherwise wouldn't be.

The tradeoff is the complexity in the supply chain which causes things to be complex and difficult to predict during times of crisis.
 
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The rewards of just-in-time logistics.

Using trailers and containers at sea and on the road as your near nil capacity warehouse was never a good idea.
 

pfc_m_drake

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Pretty sure this has more to do with the dollar nonshortage than globalization. We printed enough dollars to increase the national debt by 31.3% since 1/19. Inflation is playing catchup. All these "shortages" are really a shortage of parts/labor at pre-pandemic prices. Those prices aren't coming back.
I know - and it's funny that the typical American was blissfully unaware of this until yesterday when Dollar Tree announced it was increasing prices. I literally LOL'd at how people lost their minds at this announcement. Where the hell have you all been...

But whatever it takes to get people to wake up...if it's GPU pricing, gas prices, Dollar Tree...so be it. Wake up and take note.
 

ZodaEX

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I know - and it's funny that the typical American was blissfully unaware of this until yesterday when Dollar Tree announced it was increasing prices. I literally LOL'd at how people lost their minds at this announcement. Where the hell have you all been...

But whatever it takes to get people to wake up...if it's GPU pricing, gas prices, Dollar Tree...so be it. Wake up and take note.

Then Dollar Tree needs to change their name if their products cost over a dollar now.
 

d3athf1sh

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Dec 16, 2015
Messages
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If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.
Around 500,000 containers are sitting on cargo ships just floating off California's southern coast, as chaos takes hold at the Port of Los Angeles and Long Beach, according to local media.

Outdated infrastructure, importers with nowhere to store containers and help on the docks are reportedly behind the delays - which have lasted for weeks already.

Some 65 ships are still stuck outside the port, as trade problems bottleneck.

cargo crisis.png


things keep heading this direction and finding a new graphics card's gonna be the least of our worries...
 

NickM

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Messages
475
If the average public knew just how much is "in short supply" right now they would collectively lose their minds.
For industry its.... terrifying. It's also random as hell.

We are finally reaping the negative downside of globalization. The instant a wrench gets thrown into shipping or ports it starts to cascade really quickly.
JIT adoption has certainly not helped things.
 

d3athf1sh

Gawd
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Product shortage, or people abundance?

hmmmm
wow they got you hook line and sinker! you do know before this created catastrophe that there was and is plenty to go around. they are creating chaos so they can probably eventually instate martial law. you think the rich people care if they got to spend a couple extra hundred on a computer, or on their gas bill? no, they are still eating just as good as they were before this started. did you cheer during greta thunsberg's latest speach? the "blah blah blah" speech? (for those that don't know what i'm talking about: ) please wake up and realize you're being lied to. and good luck getting china to go "net zero"... lol. she keeps preaching to the choir.
 
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Nafensoriel

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Its a trade-off.

When everything is working as intended it results in low cost manufacturing and materials that makes things possible that otherwise wouldn't be.

The tradeoff is the complexity in the supply chain which causes things to be complex and difficult to predict during times of crisis.
The trade-off is it works perfectly or it doesn't work at all.

Seriously the situation right now is there is a very real chance some mid-level parts required to keep certain industries working are going to flat out vanish and the cascade of shutdowns this will cause will make covid look like a god damn Disney theme park.

We have lead times inside of lead times inside of lead times. Just the aluminum vessel shortage for gases alone is going to WRECK analytical work.

Side note the "overpopulation" argument is a bit absurd to even touch. Every single paper I have ever seen trying to establish a carrying capacity for humanity is so full of errors you could drive Russia through it sideways. The actual shortage that will kill humanity is when we run out of parts to make parts. Remember we are now in a specialized tool environment. This isn't the 50s and a precision tool environment. We are past the point when physical ingenuity matters. We REQUIRE our technology to keep the world working.
 

1_rick

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importers with nowhere to store containers
Here, let me offer the supergeniuses in China a solution: put the damned empties back on the ships and send them back to China to use them again.

Oh, wait, that'd interrupt their financing scam, where they deliberately leave them in the US and take out multiple loans on them.
 

1_rick

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Seriously the situation right now is there is a very real chance some mid-level parts required to keep certain industries working are going to flat out vanish
JIT obsession, coupled with the other end of your supply chain on the other end of the world is looking REALLY smart right about now.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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JIT obsession, coupled with the other end of your supply chain on the other end of the world is looking REALLY smart right about now.

Well, lets be fair here. Inventory costs are real, and can be huge, and reducing them as much as possible is generally quite favorable.

Also, building up inventories on vehicles you are uncertain if they will or will not sell based on fickle consumer preferences is also hugely risky.

Pull based manufacturing systems reduce these risks and costs significantly.

As with everything there is a tradeoff though. Reduce risk on one end and it might increase risks on the other.

I suspect despite these problems we will go right back to just in time manufacturing after the pandemic is in the rear view mirror. There is only so much cost that is reasonable to carry in the short term in otder to be prepared for a once in a hundred year crisis.
 

Camberwell

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you do know before this created catastrophe that there was and is plenty to go around. they are creating chaos so they can probably eventually instate martial law.
Too funny. Global cabal coordinating to deliberately create a deadly virus with a view to take over the world. 007 binge waching? There is still enough to go around, but because transportation hubs had to close to stop covid spreading, it has had a knock on effect which will take time to restore. It's really not that evil ;)
 

Geforcepat

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Too funny. Global cabal coordinating to deliberately create a deadly virus with a view to take over the world. 007 binge waching? There is still enough to go around, but because transportation hubs had to close to stop covid spreading, it has had a knock on effect which will take time to restore. It's really not that evil ;)

:confused::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:o_O
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Too funny. Global cabal coordinating to deliberately create a deadly virus with a view to take over the world. 007 binge waching?

The Kaos has a name. Lets just call it ... Joe. ...For those that like/d Joe it is gonna come out of your pockets just the same thanks. :censored:

I thought it was Blofeld.

s.co.uk%2Fimg%2Fdynamic%2Fgalleries%2Fx701%2F50432.jpg


Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
 

Krenum

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Too funny. Global cabal coordinating to deliberately create a deadly virus with a view to take over the world. 007 binge waching? There is still enough to go around, but because transportation hubs had to close to stop covid spreading, it has had a knock on effect which will take time to restore. It's really not that evil ;)
The Cabal being the Pharmaceutical companies.:mask:
 

THRESHIN

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Yep. And if you have a Prius - especially an older one- get your insurance up to snuff because catalytic converter theft is rampant. Particularly in California. A cop mentioned to me its outta control.

Yup. This crap has been going on for years. Long before covid and I'm sure it's only gotten worse. Problem is it's just too easy a scam. All you need is a battery reciprocating saw and a couple minutes. The scrappers usually don't ask any questions.

I remember when I got one of my past cars I noticed that the cat was welded to the exhaust manifold under the hood. At first I thought it was a horrible design since you'd have to replace the manifold and cat as one part making it obscenely expensive. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.
 
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