CONTROL (Remedy)

CAD4466HK said:
I loved it, weird af story but very cool gun play with powers, thinking about giving it another go since I now have the Ultimate edition.
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It was a surprise hit for me; doubt I would have picked it up if not for free. What a sleeper...I didn't think I'd like it but it's a very good game and a nice RTX showcase.
 
love this game, will try to get a third replay before university starts up in August.
 
AMD users gets screwed over again, it seems. I tried playing a bit of this again a few months back and it still ran like crap with a 6900xt. I was thinking at least I'd be able to run locked at 60, 4k and low rt settings...nope. It ran at mid to low 40's at 1440p with low rt back when I played it in 2021 on my 6700xt. So I didn't even bother continue to play, kinda meh game anyway imo.
 
horse said:
AMD users gets screwed over again, it seems. I tried playing a bit of this again a few months back and it still ran like crap with a 6900xt. I was thinking at least I'd be able to run locked at 60, 4k and low rt settings...nope. It ran at mid to low 40's at 1440p with low rt back when I played it in 2021 on my 6700xt. So I didn't even bother continue to play, kinda meh game anyway imo.
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You can't blame the devs for AMD RT performance. AMD does not have the kind of RT acceleration hardware nVidia does, so it all has to be done in the shaders which also have a whole lot of other things to do. That means stuff will run slower. Now if it is a case where RT is just used a tiny bit, something like just doing ambient occlusion or the like, then it probably can run fine because it isn't doing a whole lot of calculations. However when it is something like Control where you are doing full reflections, shadows, at least some of the lighting, man that adds up and without the RT acceleration hardware it is going to run slower on AMD cards.

Also of note is that resolution is one of the hardest hitting things for RT performance, this is why back in ye olden days you always saw software ray tracing demos being done in absurdly low resolutions. So 4k is way harder if you are doing RT than not. Stepping down to 1440 is a good idea and pretty necessary unless you have the chonkiest of nVidia cards (and even then sometimes).
 
Sycraft said:
You can't blame the devs for AMD RT performance. AMD does not have the kind of RT acceleration hardware nVidia does, so it all has to be done in the shaders which also have a whole lot of other things to do. That means stuff will run slower. Now if it is a case where RT is just used a tiny bit, something like just doing ambient occlusion or the like, then it probably can run fine because it isn't doing a whole lot of calculations. However when it is something like Control where you are doing full reflections, shadows, at least some of the lighting, man that adds up and without the RT acceleration hardware it is going to run slower on AMD cards.

Also of note is that resolution is one of the hardest hitting things for RT performance, this is why back in ye olden days you always saw software ray tracing demos being done in absurdly low resolutions. So 4k is way harder if you are doing RT than not. Stepping down to 1440 is a good idea and pretty necessary unless you have the chonkiest of nVidia cards (and even then sometimes).
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This. Gotta manage expectations for RT performance, especially on AMD. Upscaling is pretty much a must. Even NV cards struggle at high native resolutions and they're MUCH faster at RT than RDNA2.

On 3090Ti- which, with RT On, can get close to double the performance of a 6900XT- the highest native res that gets me 60fps locked with High RT in Control is 1440P. At 3K Native (edit-yes, 3K not 4K) with RT, I get around 50fps and the '90Ti pulls like 530W. Ain't no way Navi2 is doing native 4K + RT at good framerate, and that's not the game's fault.
 
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NattyKathy said:
This. Gotta manage expectations for RT performance, especially on AMD. Upscaling is pretty much a must. Even NV cards struggle at high native resolutions and they're MUCH faster at RT than RDNA2.

On 3090Ti- which, with RT On, can get close to double the performance of a 6900XT- the highest native res that gets me 60fps locked with High RT in Control is 1440P. At 3K Native (edit-yes, 3K not 4K) with RT, I get around 50fps and the '90Ti pulls like 530W. Ain't no way Navi2 is doing native 4K + RT at good framerate, and that's not the game's fault.
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When I last played Control, or rather my GF did, it was without this patch on a 4k TV on a 3090. 4k native was just a no-go in terms of maintaining good performance. DLSS quality at 4k though ran well. Even then, during some intense points (like the infamous hallway scene by the control room you see in all the reviews) it dropped below 60. It is just a heavy hitter with RT on.

I can see why though because RT is just gorgeous in that game, even with the occasional noise/instability. I consistently hold it up as a game for people to check out if they want to see good RT in action. For too many games RT is a "so what?" minimal kind of addon. Here though, it really elevates the visuals... but you pay a price to do so.

I'm hoping AMD decided to put some hard hitting RT hardware in their next generation of graphics cards, because I'd love to see more games make more use of it.
 
I mean it played flawlessly when set to 1440p internal and 4k output, and even at 4k native It'd still manage ~40s fps. I only used the rt reflections options as that was really the only thing noticeable anyway. They got rt'd particles and debris options in there, like who the hell is even gonna notice that?
 
horse said:
AMD users gets screwed over again, it seems. I tried playing a bit of this again a few months back and it still ran like crap with a 6900xt. I was thinking at least I'd be able to run locked at 60, 4k and low rt settings...nope. It ran at mid to low 40's at 1440p with low rt back when I played it in 2021 on my 6700xt. So I didn't even bother continue to play, kinda meh game anyway imo.
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Look into the DLSS2FSR mod from Potato of Doom. The FSR 2.1 and 2.2 version look pretty great in combo with the Unofficial patch. Annoyingly, DF's video doesn't mention this, even though the patch's author does.

PCGamingWiki Link for the Un-offical Patch (which DF was spot lighting) - https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/2581-control-hdrultrawidedlssrt-patch
DLSS 2 FSR mod from Potato of Doom's Github page - https://github.com/PotatoOfDoom/CyberFSR2
(Note he redirects you to the Cyberpunk Nexus mod page. That because the mod started as Cyberpunk 2077 mod before branching out. The download there works in Control and other games)
 
horse said:
AMD users gets screwed over again, it seems. I tried playing a bit of this again a few months back and it still ran like crap with a 6900xt. I was thinking at least I'd be able to run locked at 60, 4k and low rt settings...nope. It ran at mid to low 40's at 1440p with low rt back when I played it in 2021 on my 6700xt. So I didn't even bother continue to play, kinda meh game anyway imo.
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As mentioned, even with a 3090, you have to balance some settings or use DLSS, for 4K.

What hits AMD hardest in this game, is the RT shadows and AO. Try turning those off and using only the RT reflections. Its not a drastic hit, visually. A 6600XT can do 1080p/60 like that.
 
chameleoneel said:
As mentioned, even with a 3090, you have to balance some settings or use DLSS, for 4K.

What hits AMD hardest in this game, is the RT shadows and AO. Try turning those off and using only the RT reflections. Its not a drastic hit, visually. A 6600XT can do 1080p/60 like that.
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Which is why I would recommend checking out the DLSS2FSR mod. That why they can use FSR2 to boost the frame rate up abit like GeForce users can with DLSS.
 
Well for the hell of it I decided to give these HDFSR mods a try and I have to say,...Holy Shit! It's crazy how much better this looks and plays now! Another one of the reasons why I didn't care to much for Control initially is because of the way it looked, washed out and colorless with a fog or haze filter slapped on top of it (I never use film grain options). The saturation adjustment alone is a huge improvement. I'm running at 75 black level, 75 saturation, 10 HUD, with my monitor set to HDVivid (FO48U). Remarkable transformation!

This is actually making me want to play through again. I always liked the way the shooting/launching and movement felt, the core gameplay has always been solid. Something just didn't click with me originally. The movement is pretty much like Returnal with the sprinting and dashing. Feels good and is fun to do.

Only problem now is you can't take screenshots with Steam overlay while in HDR which sucks because I always like to take quite a few when I play :( .
 
https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/2581-control-hdrultrawidedlssrt-patch/

The mod from the Remedy programmer got updated to 1.5 and there are some nice improvements. With everything cranked it is so much better looking than the vanilla version but of course it is very demanding. At 1440p maxed with DLAA there are a couple spots where even a 4090 struggles to hold 60 fps.

I think this area looks pretty nice with the mod.




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It's no neon soaked cyber future, but I really think the RT implementation is amazing in this. Thanks for the widescreen patch update, I guess I'll have to start a new playthrough soon!
 
jobert said:
https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/2581-control-hdrultrawidedlssrt-patch/

The mod from the Remedy programmer got updated to 1.5 and there are some nice improvements. With everything cranked it is so much better looking than the vanilla version but of course it is very demanding. At 1440p maxed with DLAA there are a couple spots where even a 4090 struggles to hold 60 fps.

I think this area looks pretty nice with the mod.




View attachment 589751
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Really, a 4090 struggles to maintain 60 FPS at 1440p?
 
Hershy said:
Really, a 4090 struggles to maintain 60 FPS at 1440p?
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Probably does if you enable the 3x ray tracing setting. The mod ads the ability to have it cast more rays per pixel, which is going to clean up the noise and make the image better, but at a huge cost.
 
Sycraft said:
Probably does if you enable the 3x ray tracing setting. The mod ads the ability to have it cast more rays per pixel, which is going to clean up the noise and make the image better, but at a huge cost.
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Which setting is the 3X ray tracing?
 
I'm gonna load this back up with the mod and try it on my new 4070 and 165hz HDR1200 monitor (played it originally no mod on a 3060ti and crappy HDR400 monitor with no local dimming) - I never actually beat the game I rage quit on the very last boss (the black security chief lady) lol
 
staknhalo said:
I'm gonna load this back up with the mod and try it on my new 4070 and 165hz HDR1200 monitor (played it originally no mod on a 3060ti and crappy HDR400 monitor with no local dimming) - I never actually beat the game I rage quit on the very last boss (the black security chief lady) lol
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That's actually the dlc 'The Foundation' end boss. The end of the base game is pretty anti-climatic, like really that's it? ok then....
 
Hershy said:
Which setting is the 3X ray tracing?
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I think iirc it's just another checkbox at the bottom of the rest of the ray tracing options that was added with the patch, cant recall the actual setting name.
 
horse said:
That's actually the dlc 'The Foundation' end boss. The end of the base game is pretty anti-climatic, like really that's it? ok then....
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Yes said the same -DLC story is more endgame/more of an ending than the main game

Edit: Everything maxed - motion blur and original SDR look off - DLSS on @ 960 render - I'm getting about 55-75 FPS depending where I am - in the building I seem to be around 65-60 - outerworld or whatever it's a little higher - when I look directly at lights anywhere it dips

This was the only game I ever noticed a DLSS artifact in - when Jesse would get up from the table after talking to the science dork chick there would be a black ghosting shadow follow her face as she got up (only then, but always and a looooong ghosting trail lol) - seems like that's fixed 👍
 
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Wanted to see how the HDR looked in various areas. It's better than AutoHDR but nothing really popped out to me like 'oh wow' as I thought it might (and I don't mean in an improper overdone way - but I thought the red sand in areas and the astral plane would/should 'pop' more). It's a dull and muted sort of game to begin with so maybe anything more would have just betrayed/broken the original intent/style.

Original HDR screenshots tonemapped to SDR

Greyscale images will only show colors in areas outside of 8bit/SDR range

Here's the heatmap legend for my monitor (1170nits peak brightness)

HeatmapLegend.jpg

None of these are meant to be 'good looking' screenshots BTW, just trying to 'catch' the HDR :p

SDR.jpg
HDRHighlights.jpg
HDRHeatmap.jpg
SDR2.jpg
HDRHighlights2.jpg
HDRHeatmap2.jpg
SDR3.jpg
HDRHighlights3.jpg
HDRHeatmap3.jpg
SDR4.jpg
HDRHighlights4.jpg
HDRHeatmap4.jpg
SDR5.jpg
HDRHighlights5.jpg
HDRHeatmap5.jpg
SDR6.jpg
HDRHighlights6.jpg
HDRHeatmap6.jpg
SDR7.jpg
HDRHighlights7.jpg
HDRHeatmap7.jpg

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Here's good HDR, or not lacking HDR - just give people a comparison for the above images. And again I don't mean to knock the guy or mod at all with this just pointing it out when I saw it - or didn't

Original image

bab14eaac389df2e85edd0b54e61eee0349166f5.jpeg

SDR greyscale image (notice how much 10bit color info there is)

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Heatmap

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staknhalo said:
Wanted to see how the HDR looked in various areas. It's better than AutoHDR but nothing really popped out to me like 'oh wow' as I thought it might (and I don't mean in an improper overdone way - but I thought the red sand in areas and the astral plane would/should 'pop' more). It's a dull and muted sort of game to begin with so maybe anything more would have just betrayed/broken the original intent/style.

I'm not sure you can really get the eye-popping kind of stuff unless something was actually made and color graded for HDR by a human. Anything after is either going to not really make full use of the color gamut, or will be cartoony/blown out.
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Right you wouldn't be grading it like you would video - but you could rework assets/lighting in areas. And maybe that's why too, maybe there was only so much he could do this still being unofficial and all (or only so much he wanted to do).

But there's both HDR color/brightness info there so it's definitely HDR. It's just one of those times you wouldn't know you were looking at HDR until you look straight on into some spotlight

giphy (1).gif
 
staknhalo said:
Right you wouldn't be grading it like you would video - but you could rework assets/lighting in areas. And maybe that's why too, maybe there was only so much he could do this still being unofficial and all (or only so much he wanted to do).
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It would take reworking the art assets to really make them properly use the color range HDR has. Not only is that a big job, it is a different skill set from changing the code.
 
You definitely know it's HDR in the bright red hiss infected areas though that's why I didn't bother with any shots of that really
 
I'll play Devil's Advocate; HRD doesn't mean that the entire scale needs to be used, just that it's available. In Control there are a few places that good HDR will be notable, but most use would be just better scene lighting realism, (imho/ymmv).
 
DWolvin said:
I'll play Devil's Advocate; HRD doesn't mean that the entire scale needs to be used, just that it's available. In Control there are a few places that good HDR will be notable, but most use would be just better scene lighting realism, (imho/ymmv).
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I think what he's talking about is that normally HDR games tend to pop a bit more in part because the designers may use more of that dynamic range, but also because of color. HDR is normally graded to DCI-P3 color space (sometimes more) whereas SDR is graded to Rec 709. DCI has notably deeper reds and greens than Rec 709 so you can see more saturated colors in those. In Control there are some reds in particular that would likely use those more saturated colors if it was designed from the ground up for HDR.

While technically the color gamut isn't part of HDR or required for it, as a practical matter they come as part and parcel.
 
DWolvin said:
I'll play Devil's Advocate; HRD doesn't mean that the entire scale needs to be used, just that it's available. In Control there are a few places that good HDR will be notable, but most use would be just better scene lighting realism, (imho/ymmv).
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Yeah - that's why I said with this being a kinda dull/muted game to begin with - it might be the case. I could also see (if even just in addition to) like we said it's 'look at how much I already did I'm not redoing assets' - whether that be because skill/desire/lockout/whatever

Things like the red sand though make me think it's more the latter because the red hiss infected areas that glow red are obviously HDR (you can make one out in the left corner of the cave image with a lot of red sand) - and just 'small details' like the crimson red sand really should lean more into the 10bit color range regardless of brightness, even if keeping the rest of the image in a SDR/709 'container' to keep a duller and muted look - just seems like too obviously a missed opportunity with small things here and there, almost things that you've come to expect of an HDR image (like how glowing buttons and lasers in HDR regardless of grading usually tend to pop all the time) - that I think it's a matter of can't/won't. Which is fine, was just like 'damn'.

Sycraft said:
I think what he's talking about is that normally HDR games tend to pop a bit more in part because the designers may use more of that dynamic range, but also because of color. HDR is normally graded to DCI-P3 color space (sometimes more) whereas SDR is graded to Rec 709. DCI has notably deeper reds and greens than Rec 709 so you can see more saturated colors in those. In Control there are some reds in particular that would likely use those more saturated colors if it was designed from the ground up for HDR.

While technically the color gamut isn't part of HDR or required for it, as a practical matter they come as part and parcel.
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Yeah it was more the color that stood out to me than missing peak brightness - and like I said even with keeping a muted look you think it would lean in more to the 10bit range especially on where they use color as indicators/story markers/try to make it stand out (like the yellow walls). And the galaxy/tear in space - against a black sky/space - is another one you would think should still lean into HDR more even for the overall look of the game (has color, but you'd think it'd still go red>pink on the heatmap).
 
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I'm surprised there hasn't been much news about the sequel in development...it's been 5 years since the first game was released
 
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