Consumers Cold To Blu-Ray Players

Over the last two years I went HDTV, then HD-DVD, and blu-ray from standard def DVDs.

Over the last year, my 60+ father-in-law has gotten an hdtv as well as a couple of younger but much less AV-geeky friends. Then of course their was my wife, who swore she didn't see the point of HD in general and that I was being "picky."

Pretty much a cross sampling of the mass market and all the reasons why HD is going to be a hard sell.

The TVs are a relatively easy sell. A nice big screen, and at the store they look better than their TV at home. The benefits and cost are obvious.

Then they get them home and it starts to fall apart.

First is all the cables. HDMI is great, but the $80 cable is pretty much enough to make the average buyer feel buyers remorse and want to set their local big box store on fire. Right there anything periferal suddenly becomes and extra $100 in their head or they have to understand the 137 other holes on the back of the TV. That isn't a $400 player to them, it's a $500 player. Ow.

Then there's picture quality. Most people don't want to manage the black bars. Which means they are watching stuff in bloat-o-vision. And the scaling on most TVs sucks pretty bad, and still scale the HD images somewhat. Unless the source material is really high quality, the difference between a meh HD picture mangled by the scaling and a good DVD transfer scaled up well is not that huge. Unfortunately fixing this means tv's need to get REAL cheap, or you have to educate the consumer. Fat chance on both items. But it makes enough difference that my wife asked me why our HD looks so much better than her dad's and was concerned he got ripped off.

Then there's the cable companies. Who are already compromising the HD feeds to the point upscaled DVD DOES look as good or better. Are you going to know enough to be pissed at the cable company rather than the technology.

Then there's just making stuff needlessly confusing. Don't give folks component outs if you aren't going to give an HD signal on them. It jsut makes people wonder why it doesn't look any better and think it is crap. Also, having BR disks out there with standard def transfers because you dind't want to license a good codec was perhaps the stupidest idea on the planet. The only thing stupider would be to have included one with every BR player.

Then there's the audio. Most folks don't want a 5.1 speaker setup. They just don't. Most TVs I've run into don't deal well at all with getting 5.1 audio over HDMI and not having a center channel. People won't be impressed by not being able to hear voices well, especially if they are older and don't have the hearing of a 20 year old who never owned an ipod or went to concerts.

(BTW, for thsoe last two, HD-DVD and my A30 player were awesome. The 2 channel audio setup was the default and had dialogue as sharp as a tack right out of the box, it was super clear it was HDMI or nothing to hook it up, all the disks looked like decent HD transfers, and it is a kick-ass upscaling DVD player. I can't say as much for blu-ray.)

HD content really has an uphill battle and in many ways the folks making the standards worrying about "protecting" their interests are cutting their own throats and making it undesirable. To those thinking streaming content from the internet is going to win, it's plagued by as many or more barriers, and has even less to make a consumer go "man, now THAT'S why I bought this."

The only thing even close to being a painless answer to run away with the win is on-demand from your cable company. The learning curve is minimal, and the cost is incremental, and the installation is already done. Now if only they weren't already hated with a passion by 98% of their customer base, they might stand a chance of winning.
 
Wake me when the $50 players come around.

Until then, I'll continue to watch my Red Sox and Patriots games OTA HD.
 
It kinda looked like they were using something that was encoded at the lowest possible quality at 320x240 and then blown up on about a 42" widescreen TV.

need to do it with say... last few star wars or LOTRs side by side.. not some movie from the mid 80s, with a piss poor neg transfer, which I have seen them do. 300 might be a little too graphic but would work well or one of the pixar films

First is all the cables. HDMI is great, but the $80 cable is pretty much enough to make the average buyer feel buyers remorse and want to set their local big box store on fire.

ya, it is a bit of shooting themselves in the foot marking things up like that. royally pisses me off. Bluejeans and amazon are my friends for cables, but I pre-plan.

personally i wouldnt buy a stand alone blu-ray player. considering you can spend 400 easy MSRP on a Sony BRP, why would you buy one when you can get a PS3 for the same MSRP. even at 300 using the sony style save $100 off first purchase with a sony CC your still better off getting a PS3 which has full Audio codec processing, unlike the $400 stand alone players which usually lack DTS-HD MA.

thats basicly my point.. I don't want a PS3... I have zero use for it and seems like a waste of money since i won't ever buy a game for it. nor do a lot of other people looking to possibly upgrade to "HD" content.

I guess a lot of people are looking at this and are scratching their heads thinking: "why don't they just rip out the old laser and software, put the new stuff in and sell it" there is no reason for the stand alone players to be this much.

I've been insdie of sony's 200 and 300 disk DVD changers (i've blown 3 :p ) and I know how much/many parts are in those....the change to a "blu ray" version is not exactly hard to do
 
You sure about the dial up thing? I'm not sure I buy that.... 90 percent of everyone I know that has internet access has broadband now.... and they aren't all techies.
Yep.
I was surprised the first time I heard about it too, but when all the folks you talk about are either A) online or B) metropolitan cities... not surprising to think that way.

To those thinking streaming content from the internet is going to win, it's plagued by as many or more barriers, and has even less to make a consumer go "man, now THAT'S why I bought this."
The means to get it to the TV is here... Xbox 360 has some great features in it that do that... and no doubt plenty more easy to use things like that to come.

However, once more: over 50% still on dialup. Downloading a freaking huge 50GB movie online would take forever, not really "on demand". You can't take it on a plane with you, to someone else's house, etc.

The means is there, just has plenty of issues...

I think the best idea I've seen is a flash drive of sorts. They are dirt cheap to make (even more so once you started selling them like mad for movie formats), but once more this would introduce more propriety formats (something to plug the stick into).

Now if only they weren't already hated with a passion by 98% of their customer base, they might stand a chance of winning.
My main issue:
You pay to watch ads.
Period.
End of story.
EVERYTHING online... if it is ad supported- it's free. If you pay a monthly service: no (or at least non-intrusive) ads. Cable TV will get a run for its money in the future.
Not anytime soon... but if they don't innovate, they will fall behind.
 
I don't think I will ever buy a standalone BR player, I enjoy it from my ps3... but I don't honestly think I can go back to DVDS now. Once I saw the low res features on a Blu-ray disc I was sold. The quality can't compare. But, then again I'm a tech whore... unlike Joe Schmo. I hope BR sticks around for a while.
 
Actually i'm only buying blu-rays for any new movies i get. Have a lot of DVD's so just going to go with that and do the same thing i did when DVD replaced VHS.
As for stores, the TV i have looked bad in the store but great at home. Not all the stores have the greatest feeds imho..lol
 
I would love the quality of the actually well done Blu Ray movies (not all are good quality) And am even willing to rebuy some of my favorite movies that are well done, but for the current price its just not worth it. DVD compression is really good on almost every moving that comes out now so with upscaling they picture does look good.

No it is not HD and wont be but when stores are showing the lower quality ones as demo's, and the price for everything is so high not many people will upgrade. If prices do indeed drop this Christmas I will rebuild my HTPC gladly with Blu Ray, but erg.

To the guy earlier who talked about prices, a good upscaling DVD player is about $130 give or take 20 dollars (while the really good ones are usually over $199), so a stand alone BR player makes sense at $180 - 200 tops. Hardware isnt really what gets people, most new block buster DVD's release at about $14.99 then go up to regular $19.99, not so big movies release at $17 - 19.99. If BR wants to compete the new releases should be $19.99 and $24.99 or pretty close to that for them to be considered worth while (like how they were when competition was still an issue).

Consumers just have not caught up with the technology yet, but at this rate I think something will replace BR before it catches on, and whats next stands a good chance of being DVD vs VHS. A higher priority for me is getting FiOS for more HD content at less of a cost.
 
Meh, I own both formats and Bluray is far superior. The prices aren't that bad for what you're getting. You have to put it in perspective. If someone is willing to spend the money to buy an HDTV chances are they will buy a BR player. You can't always sell out of your own pocket.
 
The economy (although slightly picking up) could be a partial cause of lackluster BLU-RAY sales also. The price is just too high still.
 
i think we can leave drm out of the equation when contemplating why people haven't adopted high def disk formats en masse because most consumers (wal-mart, target, comsumers) don't know what drm is anyway.

I think that observation might be a bit off. Think about it. We're not talking about uninformed 80 year olds buying on a whim.

Most high tech purchases (incld. HD gear) are and will continue to be driven by the younger crowd that knows about DRM perils and what the tech brings to the table.

Being a 40-something myself- I've sworn off BD first due to the outrageous DRM. Second because of its incomplete development as a standard. Third due to overall costs.

I've also have a HDTV and have tried a friends HD-DVD side-by-side with my DVD and the difference in quality wasn't enough to warrant a change :-(
 
The upgrade from VHS to DVD was a no-brainer. The image quality was really a secondary concern. The lack of media damage through repeated viewing, scene selection, higher quantity of content, all of these things were more of a pull factor to upgrade my VHS collection to DVD.

The argument for upgrading from DVD to Blu-Ray is less compelling. The only REAL improvement is image quality, and most people don't really give a crap about that, HDTV owners or not. I know XBOX 360 owners that still use a SCART connector on their HDTV.
 
I have an upscaling DVD player I got a couple years ago....it looks better than "normal" dvd by a nice margin, and certainly I do not feel the pricing at this point, is even close to worth it, since I have an extensive library of conventional dvd plus a ton of other dvd's I have "created".

Like another said, give it time, prices will drop.
 
News from DigitalBits on prices starting to come down a bit and other mfgs getting into the game. This will lead to even cheaper prices and competitive price wars and better sales later this year and the beginning of next. When prices get in line we will see better adoption, this is still an extremely niche market. I am, as ever, appalled by the pricing of cables at retail when the same cables go for 5% of the retail big box store price online.

"First up today, there's some good Blu-ray hardware news. EngadgetHD is reporting that Samsung's BD-P1500 Blu-ray Disc player is now on shelves in select Wal-Mart stores. That's not the good news. The player is profile 2.0 BD-Live compatible, and is supposed to bitstream all the advanced audio codecs up to 7.1. That's not the good news either. Here's the good news: It's selling for just $349! That makes it by far the cheapest stand-alone BD-Live ready player available. It's also likely that the BD-P1500 will be on sale later in the year for under $300. Get 'em while you can, because they're likely to go fast.

Speaking of Wal-Mart, Video Business is reporting that the retailer will begin selling the Magnavox NB500MG9 profile 1.1 (Bonus View) Blu-ray player for just $298 on Memorial Day weekend. The player is manufactured by Funai of Japan."
 
Well, for those that don't think price is an issue, I can make a 100% accurate prediction here....Sony will have "won" when you walk into a store and:

DVD player = $69.99
Blu-ray player = $89.99 - $129.99

DVD movies = $16.99
Blu-ray movies = $16.99


If Sony was smart they would ACT NOW and drop their prices to the above mentioned level and take a huge hit but, in the mean time, win over the whole DVD market. If you say "that isn't possible"...well, Microsoft BOUGHT their way into the arena taking huge losses to become a player against two huge competitors.

The choice will be a no brainer. When the choice is hi-def or standard-def with no real price difference, Blu-ray will have WON THE DAY!!! But, until then...:confused:

Thats True.. Most people will make the one time larger investment for the player.. its the media that gets them.
 
News from DigitalBits on prices starting to come down a bit and other mfgs getting into the game. This will lead to even cheaper prices and competitive price wars and better sales later this year and the beginning of next. When prices get in line we will see better adoption, this is still an extremely niche market. I am, as ever, appalled by the pricing of cables at retail when the same cables go for 5% of the retail big box store price online.

"First up today, there's some good Blu-ray hardware news. EngadgetHD is reporting that Samsung's BD-P1500 Blu-ray Disc player is now on shelves in select Wal-Mart stores. That's not the good news. The player is profile 2.0 BD-Live compatible, and is supposed to bitstream all the advanced audio codecs up to 7.1. That's not the good news either. Here's the good news: It's selling for just $349! That makes it by far the cheapest stand-alone BD-Live ready player available. It's also likely that the BD-P1500 will be on sale later in the year for under $300. Get 'em while you can, because they're likely to go fast.

Speaking of Wal-Mart, Video Business is reporting that the retailer will begin selling the Magnavox NB500MG9 profile 1.1 (Bonus View) Blu-ray player for just $298 on Memorial Day weekend. The player is manufactured by Funai of Japan."

You can build a HTPC with BluRay drive for about the same price as most of the Stand alone Players..
 
I know some people have mentioned cost and saying DVD was more expensive when it was new but I don't think thats a fair comparison. When DVD was new there was basically no common hardware with VHS. Now the only difference between a DVD and BluRay/HD DVD players is basically just the laser and software. The rest of the hardware is already proven technology used in regular DVD drives (ie the tray, motors, etc)

As a very tech savy person I understand that HD is going to require more processing power and and hte new laser tech is going raise costs. The problem is a non-tech savy person is going to think it looks like a DVD, you put it in just like a DVD why does it cost so much more than a DVD.

Note I'm not saying HiDef isn't pointless but for most new movies there isn't that much advantage to the casual user. Now comparing the worst mastered dvds of the 80s to HD (which I find many stores do) its pretty clear.

Personally I like the idea mentioned earlier about the thumb drive/solid state movies.
 
...people from that study didn't even realize a HD format existed, cause if they thought something was better I bet you that they would buy it even at a higher price.

People definately know, and that's the gist of what the article is *flat out*.
They aren't going to buy it "at a higher price" as you put it.

The value simply is not there. :( Yet. ;)
 
Well, for those that don't think price is an issue, I can make a 100% accurate prediction here....Sony will have "won" when you walk into a store and:

DVD player = $69.99
Blu-ray player = $89.99 - $129.99

DVD movies = $16.99
Blu-ray movies = $16.99



If Sony was smart they would ACT NOW and drop their prices to the above mentioned level and take a huge hit but, in the mean time, win over the whole DVD market. If you say "that isn't possible"...well, Microsoft BOUGHT their way into the arena taking huge losses to become a player against two huge competitors.

The choice will be a no brainer. When the choice is hi-def or standard-def with no real price difference, Blu-ray will have WON THE DAY!!! But, until then...:confused:

Generally, Steve, I agree with you. The problem is that DVD players (for most people) have become a commodity item. You and I are willing to pay $70 for a decent DVD player for a home theater setup, but the average Joe doesn't give a shit about a card reader built in, DivX/XviD support, PictureCD compatibility, VCD/SVCD/MPEG-2 file playback, or whether or not it can play burned backups, and can upscale. Most people think a DVD player is a DVD player.

Now, that may not be anyone that any of us here at [H] know, because we'd likely go along with them on the purchase run (I think the majority of us, here, can agree that we are the token "tech people" in our families) and steer someone away from a POS player, and push them towards a higher quality (and pricier) option. But, that certainly will not be the case for everyone.

That being said, and my wife was a case in point before I met here, most people who need a DVD player are going to spend $30 or less, that's just the way it is. My wife (before she met me...and yes, she has learned the error of her ways) bought a freaking Norcent DVD player for $20, with the remote and the batteries included. It lasted a year before the motor burned out. Know what she did when it died? Tried to buy another $20 dvd player (around the time that I met her).

So while I think your prediction on Blu-Ray standing a better chance when the movie prices come down, I tihnk your prediction about the players is off. I do think that when Blu-Ray players go under $100, you'll really start to see some movement in the market, but if you think that for most people it will be a decision between Blu-Ray and a DVD player, with only a $20 difference, that will take a while. When that price difference comes, the Blu-Ray player will be $50, and DVD will just be for the real cheap bastards who don't have an HDTV, don't need a another Blu-Ray player, or just dont give a shit.

"All this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." - Name that CYLON!

Here's what Son'y done to disenfranchise current Blu-Ray player owners:

1.) Released the first players, at very high prices
2.) Had limited success in finalizing the BD standard for the disc format, features, and the hardware to play it on
3.) Threw early adopters over the fence by making changes to the Blu-Ray standard, and no including an update mechanism of any kind for the people that were in the fray from the beginning. Those that shelled out big bucks early on will not be able to play the BD 2.0 revision disks, as the players have no means to update their firmware.
4.) Bought their way to the top.

Sony generally makes innovative products that help define the future of consumer technology, so from that standpoint, I like them. Their stuff is always very well designed. It could be argued that several technologies and ideas from Sony, over the years, have rivaled (for their time) the strides that Apple has made in the past 5 years. That being said, both companies are horribly proprietary in both their file formats, hardware, pricing, support, and ideaology.

Your rebuttle, Mr. Steve?
 
Well, for those that don't think price is an issue, I can make a 100% accurate prediction here....Sony will have "won" when you walk into a store and:

DVD player = $69.99
Blu-ray player = $89.99 - $129.99

DVD movies = $16.99
Blu-ray movies = $16.99



If Sony was smart they would ACT NOW and drop their prices to the above mentioned level and take a huge hit but, in the mean time, win over the whole DVD market.

And from my perspective (and those like me), 16.99 is insane for *any* DVD movie.

Again, the value is *rarely* there. The last "retail priced" single movie <read as full list price> I bought was the LoTR series. Next in line?? Scrubs season boxsets, that incedentally, were a fraction of the cost of a movie, when you figure how the amount of material available to watch is included. Especially when you figure a movie averages 1.5 hours, vs 4-6 hours of material in a TV boxset (<eg:> 16.99 movie vs 19.99 boxset). Go figure. :rolleyes:

I think that observation might be a bit off. Think about it. We're not talking about uninformed 80 year olds buying on a whim.

Most high tech purchases (incld. HD gear) are and will continue to be driven by the younger crowd that knows about DRM perils and what the tech brings to the table.

Being a 40-something myself- I've sworn off BD first due to the outrageous DRM. Second because of its incomplete development as a standard. Third due to overall costs.(

Agreed on all points. Your first and third points being outstanding examples IMO.

Thats True.. Most people will make the one time larger investment for the player.. its the media that gets them.

BINGO!!!!!

You can build a HTPC with BluRay drive for about the same price as most of the Stand alone Players..

Why? Again, this is referring to the "masses". The majority of "pc users" are too stupid to realize a fraction near the full potential what they already have avaiable, NTM the added 'complexity' of an HTPC. rofl :p Joe Public needs "simple." [insert disc - point - click play].

It's my opinion that the bulk of John Q Public buys new discs targeted to the 5.99 to 9.99 value range (think 'impulse sell' bins in Target, Wal-Mart, et al) as opposed to new releases at "full retail". That's where the majority of the sales come from supporting DVD as a primary force currently.

Now, OTOH, the majority of the profit for the corporate segment lies in the new releases. The regular "bins" for the average Joes are only "loss leaders" to get people in the store.
And do realize that when I say "loss", there's definately no loss involved.
It's simply not as lucrative as the new releases.

That's why BR is not "catching on" per se.
 
I have a PS3, but the cost of BR movies prevents me from building up my “collection”. There’s absolutely no way I’m paying 2x as much for BR movies.To add insult, I’ve also been foregoing the purchase of DVDs solely because BR exists. BR is a superior format, so I don’t want to continue purchasing outdated technology. Thus, I’ve been renting BR and DVD movies instead of buying. Besides, there’s very few movies as of late that I would consider purchasing...
 
BR hasn't reached mass market prices, and with the monopoly on pre-recorded HD content now (and also Sony's own projections), prices aren't scheduled to come down to still non-mass market pricing until late next year. Hooray!
 
Check out the features of this upscaling DVD player from BB: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...yers&lp=14&type=product&cp=1&id=1164157002483

That's about as cheap as it gets ($69) for a name brand product. Upscaled standard DVD's ported to good quality HDTV's looks stunning. It's hard for John Q to justify spending $400 for a BR when you can get this kind of value and performance from a up-converted DVD player.

One might suggest that manufactures of BR players are out of touch with their current pricing index. If up-conversion DVD players is BR's manufacturers primary competition now, they (BR) might want to re-consider their pricing indexes. By the time they get to a completive price with up-converted DVD players, BR players might gathering dust in the Smithsonian.
 
I love my 5982, I wish Phillips would make a PC software package that did as good a job upconverting as the player does. PowerDVD is pathetic by comparison.

But it is easy to see the difference with BR, just hit pause and look at the image. You'll see the artifacts of compression and processing in the upconverted fram upon close examination, while the paused BR image will look like a phtograph.

There is no reason they can't make the player for BR at the $149 point, full featured, and sell the movies at 2x normal DVD price. The volume will more than make up for the drop from current prices.

But once again, this new crop of corp morons has to make the same mistake the last crop made with previous tech, because history always repeats intself with morons.
 
I don't think there's any doubt that if the HDDVD camp would have won (which, IMHO, it should have), this would not be an issue.

Players were FAR less expensive, HD DVD had better features, less draconian copy protections, and the format was actually finished and stable.

Sony won basically by throwing money at it and touting the larger capacity. Apparantly, neither means shit to today's consumer.

Price, stability, features and less mommying would have sold players.

High cost, an unfinished product, and big brother aspects do not a sale make.

People aren't stupid any more when it comes to tech. If they don't know something about tech themselves, they know someone who does, and they are going to ask first. Usually it's the 9 y/o kid in the house :)
 
You mean when Toshiba lost a ton of money selling cheap HD-DVD players trying to get people to adopt it?
As for paying off people, the only people who have been proven to do it were in the HD-DVD camp, and the rest are just rumours. (As far as i've heard)
I use both Sony and MS products, and i go for what's the best for me. People complaining the stuff is expensive have to remember that DVD and even VHS players were sky-high in price when they first started also. It took a better part of a decade for prices to come down to where people can get them really cheap.
People want 30 dollar players but don't want to wait. Blu-ray not long ago was twice the price it is now. And the disks aren't too bad if you look for deals or wait a bit for the prices to drop. (NEVER seen any Blu-ray disk twice the DVD price tho. $5-10 more is average from what i've seen and that's usually with more extras)
 
I predicted something along these lines before, although I was certain of HD-DVD's eventual success. Obviously I was wrong on that point, but still I knew that Blu-Ray would not win over the general public quickly. The success of Blu-Ray will be hinged on when they can make a player for $100 or less. This will also be tied in with a majority adoption of HDTV sets that can actually take advantage of the better picture.

Although in the techie world it seems everyone has an HD-TV, the reality is that for most people television simply isn't such a big deal that it warrants the steep upgrade cost. Granted, HDTV is dropping in price rapidly, and with that adoption is picking up. But if you buy an HDTV today, you're still limited in the amount of content that can actually take advantage of your set. For instance, on Dish network, not counting network channels that you can receive with an antenna, there are only about 80 HD channels. Most of those either play badly compressed HD signals, only play HD content part of the time, or blatantly upscale standard definition TV signals to HD (which is stupid considering most HDTV's can do this better on their own). In contrast, there are something along the lines of 400-500 standard definition channels to choose from.

The other challenge to overcome is that Blu-Ray doesn't offer much beyond HD content. DVD adoption was fast tracked by the deficiencies of VHS. The ability to instantly skip around the movie, the long term durability in contrast to VHS tapes, and no need to rewind when finished all contributed to the almost instant adoption of DVD as a standard. Also, the players reached commodity pricing quite rapidly. For the price point, Blu-Ray really doesn't offer too much to the average consumer.

And finally, there is the issue of DVD collections. Yes, all Blu-Ray players are great at upconverting Standard DVD content, but most people who care about that already have upconverting DVD players. In order to really reap the benefits, one would need to repurchase their movies in Blu-Ray format. This is not an attractive option to consumers.

Make no mistake, Blu-Ray will be the dominant format. HD is the future. But with the economy being what it is these days, most people are simply not that excited about high definition content. It's pretty, but the average consumer can enjoy a movie just as well in standard DVD format.
 
I'm Just glade Blu-Ray won for two reasons:

1.It's geared for dual/50GB and Quad/100GB disks so you get like the 4 Die Hard movies in a single Thin case "Very Cool" and you dont have to swap out Disks as often for TV series.

2.It's geared for Dual Layer/50GB and Quad Layer/100GB disks Data Backup I know 100GB not here yet but, DL for DVD burning wasn't ether if you remember for DVD DL in the beginning. So backing up a 250GB-2TB Hard Drive's isn't that bad with 100GB disks and 50GB disk holding us over for now.

1TB backup BD 100GB = 10 disks :D
1TB Backup HD 30GB = 34 disks :mad:

Do the math on backing up 1TB with 30GB max disks and a gun to the temple starts to look real good if you get my drift $(. And if your the short-term thinker try to remember your not just backing up your HDD but also your SD/350MB.avi shows/data or 720P/1GB.MKV Series or 1080P movies, games well you get the Idea. I mean 3 years of your fav Show in 720P fitting on one 100GB BD. That sounds a lot better for convince on HTPC and PC's and trying to skim threw your shows trying to find that lost ep you loved. I dont know about you but My binders are filling too fast with only 4 eps to a DVD5 VS 3 years on one disk. HDDVD just cant compete in the long run.

Besides if Movies go online distribution your always going to need a E.M resistant / compact longterm archival storage medium.


30GB was as big as HDDVD was going to get for a long time (yes it mabe would have gone 60B) if it went that way with HDDVD any way you spin it; was just another DVD "literally I.E a 10 year Life Ex tech". Then your out buying new TECH.... RETARDED

HD DVD same life as the DVD "5-15years", Blu-Ray is closer to VHS life expectancies "15-25years".

HDDVD was only good for Corps because it was cheap to convert existing factories and it had a short Life Expectancy Witch means they can force you to buy a all new Tech down the road sooner. WIN WIN for Corp's..... LOSE LOSE for the short sited idiots that saw a cheap player and the Intelligent forward thinking crowd lost on burnable storage convince and Tech L.E.


Face it. If you were a HDDVD lover your a liming that didn't do your research. Take it as a lesson learned. I hope.
 
People complaining the stuff is expensive have to remember that DVD and even VHS players were sky-high in price when they first started also.

Absolutely. HD-DVD and Blu Ray players came down in price much much faster then DVD players did just 10-12 years ago, and that format still took a solid 3-4 years to catch on versus VHS. Blu Ray hasn't even been out for two years, give it time.
 
Where do you see BD-100 discs? BD-5 discs is already expensive enough that buying another 1TB drive is way cheaper.
 
HD DVD same life as the DVD "5-15years", Blu-Ray is closer to VHS life expectancies "15-25years".

Maybe I'm making a wild prediction here, but I don't think Blu-Ray will be the dominant format going too far past 10 years. Flash based storage is rapidly advancing and coming down in price. I think we will see a push to cartridge based movies and backup solutions sooner than most people think.
 
i am not a fanboy of either format, never have been. And i don't think is fanboyism to say i could see this happening. I have a high end hdtv, after such a heavy expense i have a hard time shelling out more for a blu ray player, especially a standalone, so even though its over i went and got the hd drive from geeks and an xbox 360 drive.

total for both is 45 bucks, movies have been between 5 and 10. thats the math i see. I mainly bought the hdtv for gaming and had to spend extra on a tv that would not make my ps1 and super nintendo look like ass (i'm not being sarcastic here either, i play these most)

i have nothing against blu-ray, but they have nothing for me either. I don't think i'm alone here.

It also doesn't help that i got a good upscaling player, so normal movies actually look pretty good.
 
1969 arpanet created
1982 cd created
1988 cd beats lp sales
1996 dvd created
2001 dvd beats vhs sales
2008 blu-ray eats the sausage to beat hd-dvd
2009 all humans are implanted with DRM
 
Stupid question but is blue ray even a finalized spec yet? I know they early blue ray players came out long before the specs were finalized and will not support some of the newer features. I know newer players are comming with ethernet jacks to help upgrade them at least.
 
Where do you see BD-100 discs? BD-5 discs is already expensive enough that buying another 1TB drive is way cheaper.
draw a time line for dvd dl adoption because your not being realistic, and your having a laps in media history, also take the time to read the posts before you complain, in short the techs new so you need to be patient.You question is like a person complaining about trips to space not being cheap yet. people have addressed your Q/A in privies posts.
 
Stupid question but is blue ray even a finalized spec yet? I know they early blue ray players came out long before the specs were finalized and will not support some of the newer features. I know newer players are comming with ethernet jacks to help upgrade them at least.

Was wondering that myself. I had not heard if it was finalized yet. Of course if the hackers keep breaking the protection scheme it may never be really finalized. Those ethernet jacks may be so people can hook their Bluray player up to the internet to update the protection schemes. Or maybe for subscription access of some kind.
 
^^^ Or worse, those3 ethernet jacks are for a BioShock phone home to activate this disk on this player, and tis player only sort of deal. I am prolly just being paranoid.
 
^^^How the hell did I accidentally hit the "3" key while posting and then fail to notice it when I proof read? Ehh....
 
I think that observation might be a bit off. Think about it. We're not talking about uninformed 80 year olds buying on a whim.

Most high tech purchases (incld. HD gear) are and will continue to be driven by the younger crowd that knows about DRM perils and what the tech brings to the table.

Being a 40-something myself- I've sworn off BD first due to the outrageous DRM. Second because of its incomplete development as a standard. Third due to overall costs.

I've also have a HDTV and have tried a friends HD-DVD side-by-side with my DVD and the difference in quality wasn't enough to warrant a change :-(

you nor i belong in the 'most consumers' category. joe-anybody; the population that high-def needs to entice to help it usurp standard dvd doesn't know or need to what drm is, because all he wants to do is pop a disk in the player and watch. he doesn't want to make a copy; he probably doesn't even know how. in that sense, drm doesn't matter to him in the least.
 
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