Consoles, piracy, & why you won't need to upgrade your graphics card for a long time

spine

spine

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So I was thinking the other day, what with all this proclaimed 'piracy killing PC gaming', and the inevitable shift of developers making games primarily for the xbox/ps3 first; surely the need to uprade your graphics hardware will become almost needless?


I mean, the xbox360 obviously can't be upgraded so any games made for it will have to be kept at relatively simple settings. Surely this means that any half decent PC with 8800 will be able to cope with absolutely ANY port from the xbox (unless it's a terrible port) for years to come. Crysis is the only game recently that really pushed things and it sold terribly compared to expectations. It has definitely put off any developers from making a hardware pushing game any time soon. Games will be made for consoles first, we know this, devs have said so, and so current hardware is already good enough.


I reckon that after this latest batch of cards come out in June, there'll be very little progress in graphics for the PC for a long time until the next gen of consoles arrive.


Whatya reckon? Are we about to see a radical change in the pace of graphics hardware development? The 8800GT is a definite sign of this I'd say.
 
I somewhat agree. These next gen cards that are coming out will probably hang around the top end for at least a year. I just cant see nvidia or ati being able to brute force their way to better graphics anymore at this point, without some new breakthrough in the technology. But most console games that arent pure ports, usually do have better graphics and are a bit more power hungry on the pc version.
 
You're probably right as there just aren't many PC exclusive titles any more. But at the same time, I think you see more titles coming to PC in addition to the console as more and more PC's become gaming capable. There are millions of gaming capable PC's, so even if piracy is a big deal on the PC, porting code isn't that expensive, and some of use do still buy games for the PC like me. And I'll never do a console. Ever. More than likely.
 
Having both a xbox360 and several computers, I think without a doubt the PC has the higher potential. Unfortunatly, as you touched upon, many of the games are being pushed out are ports from the console. All this hardware is wasted trying to process these crappy ported applications. Best case scenario your stuck waiting for a patch for these games to fix an important bug or flaw that never arrives. Or huge remakes of popular multiplayer games are now reduced to 16 players because that's all that is supported on the console.
I'm not a programmer but in the last 15+ years of being a PC gamer I have seen great titles. The last few years I have seen only a handful if that. Prior years the PC gaming was the market, now it's more of an after thought for many companies.
Can't blame the studios as to test/troubleshoot an application on one console has to be a cost savings. However I don't like they spend little resources when they offer it to the PC and when the consumer gets crap in a CD sleave they point to piracy to blame. Don't get me wrong I think piracy is an issue, but not "the" issue why PC gaming is not what it once was.
We know developers can do it right, example COD4/Bioshock/Oblivion, but there's little motivation when they see crappy based flash games selling like hotcakes on the wii vs dedicating resources to make PC games like they were once made.
Just my rant.
 
Well, In my opinion, developers are just starting to get comfortable with the NexGen hardware of these systems.... so as time passes they'll find a way to manipulate the system to get every frame and every pixel they can out of it...

Sometimes porting games that are optimized for a certain kind of hardware will take more of a PC system to run at completely smooth frame rates.... (Think about PS2 games from release, and then look at God of War/2 and Shadow of the Colossus that were released several years later...)

Also, who's to say that more PC Games won't get released? Sure, maybe not as many, but last I heard there were still 15+ Million people playing WoW... so it's not like PC has been forgotten. The problem is Piracy, and to combat that they need to start making more games that are Coop/Multiplayer and require you to connect to their server... (Coop Crysis anyone?)

When is the last time you heard of someone Pirating a game that is Multiplayer Only? (and has to connect to a authentication server..) I mean, sure, right now Im sure if you looked hard enough, you could find a Pirated copy of StarCraft, but what fun is it, 10 years later, to play it Single Player? You still need a valid Key to play it online.

Personally, I think Steam is doing a great job of things as far as the Half Life stuff is concerned, I think its a decent business model. As long as you have an account that says you have paid for a certain game, you can download the game as many times as you want (at a friends house, after reformatting/upgrading...), but to PLAY it, you have to have an account that says you can.... (at least Online..)

Heres the deal: nVidia and ATI count on us hardware enthusiast's to buy their hardware... if there are no games coming out that require better hardware, they don't sell anything, and therefore make no money. So, thats why you see nVidia and ATI PARTNERING with game companies to make games that push computer hardware, so people that want to have the best gaming experience possible will BUY the $500+ hardware. Thats business. Im sure one day game companies will start coming out with "Mostly Multiplayer" games...Where theres SOME single player, but its boring or annoying compared to Coop with a friend or blowing each other up in PvP... and people will start buying games rather than stealing them...

Piracy is so rampant because "Why pay for something I can get for free."...

Whats the point in stealing the keys to a car, when you need a license to drive the car?... You'll "get pulled over" (not get authenticated on the server) and have to get out of the car (not get to play the game)...

If more games were like CounterStrikeSource (read: -not the actual game-, but the fact that theres not really a worthwhile single player... but good multiplayer.) people would HAVE to buy them....

Ok, Ive went on my rant, I'll leave it at that....
 
spine said:
I mean, the xbox360 obviously can't be upgraded so any games made for it will have to be kept at relatively simple settings. Surely this means that any half decent PC with 8800 will be able to cope with absolutely ANY port from the xbox (unless it's a terrible port) for years to come. Crysis is the only game recently that really pushed things and it sold terribly compared to expectations. It has definitely put off any developers from making a hardware pushing game any time soon. Games will be made for consoles first, we know this, devs have said so, and so current hardware is already good enough.
Click to expand...

While this is true, you make an incorrect assumption. Console to PC ports don't necessarily have the same quality. Take, for example, Mass Effect. The PC port is getting improved graphics. The same is most likely true for other games that come out on both platforms (such as UT3). And, of course, us PC people will get to enjoy 60fps+ with AA/AF at max at resolutions consoles could only dream of, so its not *all* bad :D

I do see this lowering the adoption rate of DX10, though, or at least developers will put in on the back burner. :(
 
spine said:
So I was thinking the other day, what with all this proclaimed 'piracy killing PC gaming', and the inevitable shift of developers making games primarily for the xbox/ps3 first; surely the need to uprade your graphics hardware will become almost needless?


I mean, the xbox360 obviously can't be upgraded so any games made for it will have to be kept at relatively simple settings. Surely this means that any half decent PC with 8800 will be able to cope with absolutely ANY port from the xbox (unless it's a terrible port) for years to come. Crysis is the only game recently that really pushed things and it sold terribly compared to expectations. It has definitely put off any developers from making a hardware pushing game any time soon. Games will be made for consoles first, we know this, devs have said so, and so current hardware is already good enough.


I reckon that after this latest batch of cards come out in June, there'll be very little progress in graphics for the PC for a long time until the next gen of consoles arrive.


Whatya reckon? Are we about to see a radical change in the pace of graphics hardware development? The 8800GT is a definite sign of this I'd say.
Click to expand...

You are right that when it comes to multi-platform games we don't have to have a good video card to max them. A 9600GT will max out Bioshock, UT3, and do a good job on COD4. Games ported to PC howver are hit and miss. Some go the extra mile to not just straight port it, like GOW, and Mass Effect, and some are idiots like Capcom that make horrible PC ports like Lost Planet and RE4. I still prefer having beefy games like Crysis so I can justify the $3000-$5000 I spend some years on my PC, and it makes me happy to see PC gaming challenged like that.
 
Until someone figures out a way to do a copy protection scheme that WORKS, PC gaming is going to be dead.

Currently the copy protection schemes are incredibly intrusive and don't work. This is horrid.
 
PhReaK said:
Well, In my opinion, developers are just starting to get comfortable with the NexGen hardware of these systems.... so as time passes they'll find a way to manipulate the system to get every frame and every pixel they can out of it...

Sometimes porting games that are optimized for a certain kind of hardware will take more of a PC system to run at completely smooth frame rates.... (Think about PS2 games from release, and then look at God of War/2 and Shadow of the Colossus that were released several years later...)

Also, who's to say that more PC Games won't get released? Sure, maybe not as many, but last I heard there were still 15+ Million people playing WoW... so it's not like PC has been forgotten. The problem is Piracy, and to combat that they need to start making more games that are Coop/Multiplayer and require you to connect to their server... (Coop Crysis anyone?)

When is the last time you heard of someone Pirating a game that is Multiplayer Only? (and has to connect to a authentication server..) I mean, sure, right now Im sure if you looked hard enough, you could find a Pirated copy of StarCraft, but what fun is it, 10 years later, to play it Single Player? You still need a valid Key to play it online.

Personally, I think Steam is doing a great job of things as far as the Half Life stuff is concerned, I think its a decent business model. As long as you have an account that says you have paid for a certain game, you can download the game as many times as you want (at a friends house, after reformatting/upgrading...), but to PLAY it, you have to have an account that says you can.... (at least Online..)

Heres the deal: nVidia and ATI count on us hardware enthusiast's to buy their hardware... if there are no games coming out that require better hardware, they don't sell anything, and therefore make no money. So, thats why you see nVidia and ATI PARTNERING with game companies to make games that push computer hardware, so people that want to have the best gaming experience possible will BUY the $500+ hardware. Thats business. Im sure one day game companies will start coming out with "Mostly Multiplayer" games...Where theres SOME single player, but its boring or annoying compared to Coop with a friend or blowing each other up in PvP... and people will start buying games rather than stealing them...

Piracy is so rampant because "Why pay for something I can get for free."...

Whats the point in stealing the keys to a car, when you need a license to drive the car?... You'll "get pulled over" (not get authenticated on the server) and have to get out of the car (not get to play the game)...

If more games were like CounterStrikeSource (read: -not the actual game-, but the fact that theres not really a worthwhile single player... but good multiplayer.) people would HAVE to buy them....

Ok, Ive went on my rant, I'll leave it at that....
Click to expand...
Call of duty 4 is playable online, pirated.
I think some people are missing the point, Who in the hell has money for a 60$-40$ game anymore? I know i Don't.
 
vengence said:
Until someone figures out a way to do a copy protection scheme that WORKS, PC gaming is going to be dead.

Currently the copy protection schemes are incredibly intrusive and don't work. This is horrid.
Click to expand...

There is not such thing as copy protection that works. PC gaming isn't going to die because of a lack of copy protection either - that song has been sung, and it just isn't true.

Good blog post on the topic by a developer: http://blogs.ign.com/Stardock_Games/2008/01/29/78711/
 
Well, some of us want more than the crappy upscaled 720p consoles deliveres...
I am quite fond of AA and AF too...so bring on the new cards, would be sad to be stuck down in "console-land" graphics wise...
 
I pay for games I actually like, or feel deserve my money. So... That's been Crysis, COD4, and Oblivion in the last 2 years :eek:.
 
I am SO GODDAMNED SICK of hearing people post all this 'consoles are the gaming future' and 'PC gaming is dying' bullshit. I think PC gaming is in it's best state ever and the games and hardware just keep getting better and better.

So a few 'big boys' are proclaiming that they will be moving their franchises to consoles only. So fucking what? You know what the great thing about the PC is? Independent developers are everywhere and if a few of the big boys move away from the PC that just leaves more room for some actual creativity by the indie folks. So again I say let 'em run to the consoles! :p :p :p
 
I actually just tried GRAW2 on a PS3...and since I have GRAW2 on PC, I can compare the two:

PS3: Kiddie 3rdperson shooter, with NO realism just mindless fragging and less graphics than on the PC version.
PC: Tactical 1st person shooter with HIGH realism, GREAT physcis and the need for use of neurons to not die.

So if the kiddie gamesstays on the console fine by me, just stop porting all those kitty-games from console to PC...waste of your time..and a waste of mine.
 
If GAMES supported a KB & mouse - I would buy a 360 & PS3 in a heartbeat!
- I want to play some games that aren't going to be on PC!
- I think a lot of other people would too!

I'll never convince my "adult" buddies to buy video card for thier (usually DELL) PC's.
- even with my geek help - it's just too complicated (and time consuming) for most of them.
- there's too many variables, too many choices, too many price & performance points, etc.

Consoles provide a simplicity that appeals to the masses (and developers).
- for the masses - it is plug & play - with all players on an equal performance platform.
- for the devs - just give me KB & mouse support so I can play newer games with the simple people!

=========================================================
EDIT @ Atech - it looks like we were both writing @ the same time.

Atech said:
...just tried GRAW2 on a PS3... since I have GRAW2 on PC, I can compare the two:

PS3: Kiddie 3rdperson shooter, with NO realism just mindless fragging and less graphics than on the PC version.
PC: Tactical 1st person shooter with HIGH realism, GREAT physcis and the need for use of neurons to not die.

So if the kiddie gamesstays on the console fine by me, just stop porting all those kitty-games from console to PC...waste of your time..and a waste of mine.
Click to expand...

I didn't think this was the case when I saw some PC games I used to play @ my buddies on his PS2. It looked like the same exact levels, etc. The only diff. I saw was "user aids" like auto-aim-lock-on - because the diddle sticks are so hard to FPS with. However, I didn't watch very long & asked if they could be turned off in the options - like a race game with "auto-brake assist" and he said yes.

I'll take your word for it though...

It sounds like you are saying it is a different game & would still suck w/ KB & mouse?
 
The 'death knell' of PC gaming seems to have been going off for the past 2 years but they sure don't seem any deader to me yet.

Even if not a single new PC game comes out for 5 years I would only be moderately upset, because there are without a doubt 5 years worth of awesome games I have never played, heard of, etc on the PC. Everything on consoles is based on some movie, franchise, etc. and has dumbed-down gameplay compared to PC games. All the gaming franchises that started on PC have become worse and require less thinking to play after touching consoles. Bioshock and Rainbow Six Vegas are perfect examples of this. Both good games, yes. But do they hold a candle to their predecessors? No way. Too much simplification for a controller with like 8 buttons instead of like 50 is what it comes down to. I miss the days of 300 page manuals. Also, the consoles are dependent on trickle-down of technology that is created for us, the PC gamers, to continue improving with each generation. If there had never been a Radeon X1900, you can sure as hell bet there would not be an XBox 360 today. And finally, a graphics card that can dominate all games for a year is not a bad thing, that is a GREAT thing. The software will always catch up, so why stress when the hardware is ahead? The PC as a game-box is not going anywhere anytime soon. Consoles will be consoles, but what we have is something entirely different and IMHO, much much better :D

whew hooray for stream of conscious ranting
 
Mmmm.

Well, I think there are two factors at play here:

a) Diminishing returns on developing the "zomgcraziestbleedingedgecutyoulikeaknifewhileyourstillsittinginyourchair!!" graphics. I've always thought this urge some companies have to push the envelope on this kind of stuff was a little silly. I can't remember the last game I bought that was "cutting edge", while games like Diablo, WoW, TF2, and the old CnC line continue to get played day in and day out.

You can have a fun, ultra-realistic game that plays well without much more graphics than we have in today's games. At some point, putting time, money, and man-hours into developing the next big thing just for big "ooh ahh"-effect will return less profit than building better games, or improving piracy-protection on product you already have, etc.

b) Bad business models and security. It seems pretty simple, to me. If you want to do business in a given arena, you have to figure out how to protect your product. Depending on the law to do it doesn't work very well (ask my friend, who regularly gets pirated games for the console from his trips to Pakistan). A hardware or software fix, or a change in business models, may be what's required. The gaming industry needs to do what the music and book industries can't...modify their products to meet the reality of today's consumer.

Honestly, I could easily see MMO or subscription-type companies taking over on the PC in the near future. It seems to have some of the baked-in anti-fraud stuff some of these companies are looking for.

My next console will be a Wii, btw, and it'll be the first console I've bought in 5 years. Why? Not because of it's cutting-edge graphics. It's cheap, the games are fun, active, and social, and add TO a party instead of taking away from it. I've been to several college parties where 3-5 guys said "zomg, you have (insert random hot game here)!" and locked themselves away from the rest of the party for hours on end. Games like Rockband and Guitar Hero are great because they actually make a party more fun, and tend to involve everyone. Wii games are usually so simple anyone can pick up and play well in a short amount of time. Ever try to teach your GF how to play Madden? Try "Wii bowling" instead. You'll both have more fun.

My girlfriend doesn't care how "zomg great" Halo 3 is, or how realistic GTA4 is. She wants to have fun and relax. When did companies forget how to sell us games that do that?

~Semi
 
It's interesting you mention Crysis. Isn't that game Vista only? Yah, I know, you can hack it to work on XP. But as a gamer who wants all of his clock cycles processing game data, I don't want a bloated operating system eating some of those cycles. (I know, this is oversimplifying a LOT of things.)

I any case, I buy all the games I like. The heaviest game is Oblivion, and my poor BFGTech 7900GS crawls when anything with red moving lights comes onto the screen (such as an oblivion gate close up). Civ 4 gets a lot of play (just not system intensive) and, of course, pop cap games for the missus. Oh, and of course, TrackMania Nations! (Gotta love a quality free game.)

I'll probably not purchase a console in a very long time, because I like having control. I like having a minimum of 15 keys at my beck and call for when I need to make the weapon switch, unit upgrade, or other action quickly. If I need a gamepad, I just plug one into the USB port and play my Need for Speed II: Underground (which currently doesn't work on my Intel E6600 and 7900GS... don't know why, haven't revisited the issue in over a year.)
 
PhReaK said:
Also, who's to say that more PC Games won't get released? Sure, maybe not as many, but last I heard there were still 15+ Million people playing WoW... so it's not like PC has been forgotten. The problem is Piracy, and to combat that they need to start making more games that are Coop/Multiplayer and require you to connect to their server... (Coop Crysis anyone?)

When is the last time you heard of someone Pirating a game that is Multiplayer Only? (and has to connect to a authentication server..) I mean, sure, right now Im sure if you looked hard enough, you could find a Pirated copy of StarCraft, but what fun is it, 10 years later, to play it Single Player? You still need a valid Key to play it online.

Personally, I think Steam is doing a great job of things as far as the Half Life stuff is concerned, I think its a decent business model. As long as you have an account that says you have paid for a certain game, you can download the game as many times as you want (at a friends house, after reformatting/upgrading...), but to PLAY it, you have to have an account that says you can.... (at least Online..)

Piracy is so rampant because "Why pay for something I can get for free."...

Whats the point in stealing the keys to a car, when you need a license to drive the car?... You'll "get pulled over" (not get authenticated on the server) and have to get out of the car (not get to play the game)...

If more games were like CounterStrikeSource (read: -not the actual game-, but the fact that theres not really a worthwhile single player... but good multiplayer.) people would HAVE to buy them....

Ok, Ive went on my rant, I'll leave it at that....
Click to expand...

Thats a really bad idea. There is also a sizeable chunk of the gaming population who hates multiplayer. We shouldn't need to connect online to play a singleplayer game and I won't be buying a game thats MP only. There is a chunk of the gaming population who has either no internet or limited internet access. Those of us in rural areas/abroad/serving in the armed forces aren't so fortunate. Alienating a section of the market is not a good way to sell games. The best way to prevent piracy is to shut down the sources (Piratebay) not punish the legit users.

kllrnohj said:
There is not such thing as copy protection that works. PC gaming isn't going to die because of a lack of copy protection either - that song has been sung, and it just isn't true.

Good blog post on the topic by a developer: http://blogs.ign.com/Stardock_Games/2008/01/29/78711/
Click to expand...

I love Stardock.

Blue Falcon said:
I am SO GODDAMNED SICK of hearing people post all this 'consoles are the gaming future' and 'PC gaming is dying' bullshit. I think PC gaming is in it's best state ever and the games and hardware just keep getting better and better.

So a few 'big boys' are proclaiming that they will be moving their franchises to consoles only. So fucking what? You know what the great thing about the PC is? Independent developers are everywhere and if a few of the big boys move away from the PC that just leaves more room for some actual creativity by the indie folks. So again I say let 'em run to the consoles! :p :p :p
Click to expand...

QFT. Good riddance to them. Most big production houses have realized that they could release horrible games and still sell millions of copies. As long as we get smaller studios producing games, that can't afford to pay royalties to Sony and MS, PC gaming will be fine.

Atech said:
I actually just tried GRAW2 on a PS3...and since I have GRAW2 on PC, I can compare the two:

PS3: Kiddie 3rdperson shooter, with NO realism just mindless fragging and less graphics than on the PC version.
PC: Tactical 1st person shooter with HIGH realism, GREAT physcis and the need for use of neurons to not die.

So if the kiddie gamesstays on the console fine by me, just stop porting all those kitty-games from console to PC...waste of your time..and a waste of mine.
Click to expand...

Even GRAW was arcadey compared to the original. You only had one fire team. You couldn't select who was in your fireteam. The objectives were presented in a linear order. You could sustain multiple shots, regenerating health.
 
Machtyn said:
It's interesting you mention Crysis. Isn't that game Vista only?
Click to expand...

Actually Crysis is the showcase for why not to go Vista.
Under XP with Very High-config hacks you can get the same image quality(I dare someone to pass a double blind test!) with BETTER preformance under Win XP/DxX9..than Vista/DX10 gives you.

So you are wrong...;)
 
Machtyn said:
It's interesting you mention Crysis. Isn't that game Vista only? Yah, I know, you can hack it to work on XP. But as a gamer who wants all of his clock cycles processing game data, I don't want a bloated operating system eating some of those cycles. (I know, this is oversimplifying a LOT of things.)
Click to expand...
Vista only if you mean in DirectX 10 mode, yes.
 
There will probably be two types of PC games released in the next few years:

A) Direct ports from the XBox360/PS3 - these will run smoothly on systems that roughly match the specs of these consoles

B) Ports, or PC-exclusive titles that take advantage of additional features and performance enhancements. Those will require more horsepower.

The vastI majority of games will probably fall into category A. If a game you're looking forward to turns out to fall into the B) category, ie. Crysis, you'll have to upgrade.. But if you're happy playing console ports, you can probably hang on to your high-end DX9/Mid-range DX10 card for quite a while longer.
 
Imo, forget piracy. Smart PC publishers and developers are going to start seriously looking at and considering alternate forms of distribution that can sidestep the issue of piracy entirely.

For example:
  • Valve has noted that the PC version of the Orange Box outsold the 360 and PS3 versions COMBINED by a DOUBLE DIGIT PERCENTAGE
  • Check-out the free-to-play ad revenue-based model EA is testing the waters with via Battlefield: Heroes
  • Consider Garage Games' approach to Fallen Empires: Legion, where they intend to release the game initially for only about $10 and to continue to support and add to the game, subsequently increasing its value (so if you buy early, you get in cheaply but you don't get much initially, kinda like a beta minus the bugs, but with time more features/content comes online; if you buy the game later, it has more content/more features but you'll need to pay more for it)
  • Or just look at Sins of a Solar Empire, which contained no DRM and still uses a traditional distribution model, except they require validation to access post-release content/support, and they support their games well, so...
The common theme to all of the distribution methodologies listed above is that not only are they beneficial to publishers and developers because of their ability to subvert piracy, but they are also beneficial to PC gamers, allowing them to acquire games at reduced cost (and, in some cases, like BF:H, no cost; I would be really surprised if EA Sports does not adapt the BF: H distribution model to PC sports games by their 2010 line of sports games- given that this year marks their '09 line, that means such a model should be only a little over a year out if EA is smart, and indications are that their intelligence is improving) as well as to receive superior support/updated content for those games for "free" (you pay for it one way or another- by glancing at an ad on the game's website ala BF: H, by purchasing the game originally, etc...), making PC game prices even more palatable than they already are compared to console game prices (currently, the standard price for a new, AAA PC game is $50 while it is $60 on the 360 and PS3; there are some exceptions to this, such as Left 4 Dead which will only cost $40 on the PC and $60 on the 360). And, of course, most of the distribution models above favor digital distribution which is generally more convenient than traditional distribution.

Also consider how cheaply cards like the 9600GT can be had for now (around $100 off NewEgg) which can trounce the 360's and PS3's graphical capabilities- it really is not an expensive proposition to upgrade that new PC you had to get anyway into a gaming rig that can wipe the floor with the PS3 and 360.
 
Blue Falcon said:
I am SO GODDAMNED SICK of hearing people post all this 'consoles are the gaming future' and 'PC gaming is dying' bullshit. I think PC gaming is in it's best state ever and the games and hardware just keep getting better and better.
Click to expand...

Oh, don't get me wrong, PC gaming is where it's at for anyone who truly gives a shit about gaming. You'll have to pry my keyboard & mouse from my cold dead fingers before I'll game on a fucking console. :p

kllrnohj said:
I do see this lowering the adoption rate of DX10, though, or at least developers will put in on the back burner. :(
Click to expand...

Damn good point there, missed me completely but so true. Good for me though 'cos I don't wanna have to 'upgrade' to Vista until I absolutely positively have to.


I wished I hadn't mentioned piracy here because my real point is how consoles are going to directly hamper graphics hardware since they are now the primary focus for game developers.


And yeah, there'll always be room for better hardware on the PC side for the same game on the 360. Look at GTA4 for example, it runs horrendeously slowly. I can't believe how everyone just blindly accepts it. The framerate is utterly harrowing. Crysis easily runs much faster on my aging PC compared to GTA4 on the consoles. Actually, I guess if this is a continuing trend then we will see games become more demanding regardless of console limitations. Console owners don't even seem to notice at all anyway. ;)
 
spine said:
Oh, don't get me wrong, PC gaming is where it's at for anyone who truly gives a shit about gaming. You'll have to pry my keyboard & mouse from my cold dead fingers before I'll game on a fucking console. :p
Click to expand...

I give a shit about gaming, i play on my PC, and i play on my PS3. You sound like someone who didnt get a console for christmas. Maybe if you considered any form of gameplay, youd realize consoles are far better for Sports and Racing games, and even third person shooters alot of the time. BTW, anyone who truly gives a shit about gaming owns a PS3.

Another big thing i havent seen people mention is consoles can support 4 players. Can 4 people crowd around your 20inch monitor?
 
nissanztt90 said:
I give a shit about gaming, i play on my PC, and i play on my PS3. You sound like someone who didnt get a console for christmas. Maybe if you considered any form of gameplay, youd realize consoles are far better for Sports and Racing games, and even third person shooters alot of the time. BTW, anyone who truly gives a shit about gaming owns a PS3.

Another big thing i havent seen people mention is consoles can support 4 players. Can 4 people crowd around your 20inch monitor?
Click to expand...

Split screen sucked even back in the Amiga times, don't shot yourself in the foot...
 
nissanztt90 said:
I give a shit about gaming, i play on my PC, and i play on my PS3. You sound like someone who didnt get a console for christmas. Maybe if you considered any form of gameplay, youd realize consoles are far better for Sports and Racing games, and even third person shooters alot of the time. BTW, anyone who truly gives a shit about gaming owns a PS3.

Another big thing i havent seen people mention is consoles can support 4 players. Can 4 people crowd around your 20inch monitor?
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Actually, yeah- and as far as 4-player MP goes, I find my Wii to handle that best, particularly given that splitscreen support among the PS3/360 is not great and seems to only further be declining in favor of online MP.

As far as games go, sports games are the only area I am "hurting in" at the moment and even there the Xbox I picked-up for $25 is doing a sufficient job (there really hasn't been a football game released yet that touches the gameplay of NFL 2K5 and there isn't much of a difference between NHL 2K7 on the Xbox and NHL 2K7 on the Xbox 360 except for visuals [and even that difference isn't as great as it should be] though I would like to get my hands on NHL '08 it's not killing me to not have it, and as I've stated before it's only a matter of time before EA Sports wakes-up and realizes the potential of ad-based distribution models via the PC for their sports games). Racing-wise, TrackMania Nations Forever has managed to swipe the top spot imo for that (going to be upgrading to TMU soon)- GT5 Prologue just has not proved nearly as entertaining/challenging as TrackMania has and I have not been impressed with the GRID demo either (though some of that could be due to GRID's stupid method of mapping joysticks and thus utter failure to properly map mine, so I'm going to drum-up a GlovePIE script for it so I can use my Wiimote instead). Beyond that, the only PS3 game that I can't get on my PC or Wii atm that I'm miffed about not having access to is MGS 4- GTA IV will be hitting the PC later this year (better things come to those who wait; GTA IV + stable framerate + mods = better)- I was a little miffed about Haze but I haven't heard good things about the demo and they're blocking k/m support (initially Free Radical said, in response to their decision to block k/m support on the PS3, that if you wanted to use k/m to just get the PC version; hence, k/m support still being lacking in the PS3 version, a PC version may well be on its way after all- increasingly I'm finding that the title of "PS3 Exclusive" or "Xbox 360 Exclusive" applies only to the arena of consoles and does not bar a game from a PC release). The Wii pretty much fills the rest of the PC's gaps (platformers, lighter fare, and fighters- Brawl FTW).
 
As for me I am just waiting for the right people to make pirating on the consoles a lot easier such as software hacks. I know that really only hardware mods are available on consoles right now to play pirated games, but hopefully the next generation of consoles will slip up some how. This will even the score and hopefully convince developers to start making PC exclusive titles again. Time will tell.
 
nissanztt90 said:
I give a shit about gaming, i play on my PC, and i play on my PS3. You sound like someone who didnt get a console for christmas. Maybe if you considered any form of gameplay, youd realize consoles are far better for Sports and Racing games, and even third person shooters alot of the time. BTW, anyone who truly gives a shit about gaming owns a PS3.
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Oh yeah for sure, when me and my mates get together we're all on the 360 playing sports games and split screen Cod4. It's throw away fun though, you can't take it seriously. :cool:

Anyway, back on topic...
 
Atech said:
I actually just tried GRAW2 on a PS3...and since I have GRAW2 on PC, I can compare the two:

PS3: Kiddie 3rdperson shooter, with NO realism just mindless fragging and less graphics than on the PC version.
PC: Tactical 1st person shooter with HIGH realism, GREAT physcis and the need for use of neurons to not die.

So if the kiddie gamesstays on the console fine by me, just stop porting all those kitty-games from console to PC...waste of your time..and a waste of mine.
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That is not all what the reviewers said and what i experienced, maybe that was your wet dream. Or maybe your parent just wouldn't buy a ps3!

BTW, When talking about realism, the dual-shock kicks the ass of your mousy.
 
There's one point, besides piracy, I haven't seen mentioned. That is that developing and supporting games for millions of people who have exactly the same hardware has some major advantages. Even if you argue that development costs are the same for each platform, the cost savings for not supporting millions of different PC configurations justifies the decision.

An example is Tiger Woods 07 and 08 on the PC. TW07 wouldn't run on Vista, and EA refused to fix it. TW08 comes out it was a nightmare. Neither helped EA's already declining reputation.

So what does EA do with TW09? They cancel the PC version, so they can avoid the high cost of having to support millions of people with different configs. They will lower their support costs after it ships, avoid a lot of bad PR, won't have to ship multiple patches that use up dev resources, and so on. They'll make more money in the end.

I'm also wondering if we're just in a cycle where consoles become the primary platform for a time, but only until their age begins to show. Then we'll see an uptick in PC games, due to their every increasing graphics and processing power. That will last until the next set of new consoles arrives to catch up in quality and performance, and developers figure them out.

No way to tell, but it's a theory I was tossing around with someone the other day. I'm curious what [H] members think.

(and I know I'll get an answer :rolleyes:)
 
bangmal said:
BTW, When talking about realism, the dual-shock kicks the ass of your mousy.
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It does? In that case, my Wiimote encased in a Perfect Shot with a Nunchuck attached must be the realistic set-up in this discussion. And, oh, I mentioned that I play Half-Life 2 with that, right? B/c I can connect my Wiimote and its peripherals to my PC via a rather inexpensive Bluetooth dongle. No to mention that set-up will also give your dual-shock a lesson in precision aim (though my G9, ofc, itches to teach both a lesson in precision aim, but I gotta hand it to the Perfect Shot/Wiimote set-up on the PC as it is a LOT more precise than I expected it to be, even after having played Metroid Prime 3 and heard good things about Medal of Honor Heroes 2's control scheme- I really have to say that this set-up beat-out a standard optical mouse for accuracy and precision imo, though gaming mice still have it beat, but given that a standard optical mouse nets greater accuracy and precision than your friend the dual-shock...).
 
PhReaK said:
-snip-

If more games were like CounterStrikeSource (read: -not the actual game-, but the fact that theres not really a worthwhile single player... but good multiplayer.) people would HAVE to buy them....

Ok, Ive went on my rant, I'll leave it at that....
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Here's the issue: I play games. I pay for games. I do not enjoy most (pretty much all) multiplayer. I play games for the storyline, and to get away; perhaps I'm in the minority, but I do not want to play deathmatch. I don't even particularly want to play co-op. I play to get away.
 
silent-circuit said:
Here's the issue: I play games. I pay for games. I do not enjoy most (pretty much all) multiplayer. I play games for the storyline, and to get away; perhaps I'm in the minority, but I do not want to play deathmatch. I don't even particularly want to play co-op. I play to get away.
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Two-thirds of the Orange Box is singleplayer (HL2 Ep 2 and Portal; 4/5 if you include HL2 and HL2 Ep1) and Valve has declared that the PC version of the OB is outselling the combined console versions of the OB by a double-digit percentage. Rather apparently, Steam is either foiling attempts to pirate the OB or piracy simply doesn't matter in relation to such a great package. So take heart- there are ways to defeat piracy that will not sacrifice the singleplayer experience.
 
I could care less if they ever make another PC game my self. I have counterstrike, OB, and COD4. I don't really need anything else. It may be true that the major publishers will move away from the PC. Thats fine with me. Most people don't know that the most popular game on the internet BY FAR, was a user mod of HL. I can still get a game on the original UT with no trouble, any time, day or night.
 
BallerX said:
I could care less if they ever make another PC game my self. I have counterstrike, OB, and COD4. I don't really need anything else. It may be true that the major publishers will move away from the PC. Thats fine with me. Most people don't know that the most popular game on the internet BY FAR, was a user mod of HL. I can still get a game on the original UT with no trouble, any time, day or night.
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Yeah, progress sucks.

We should go back to Windows 95.

Intel, AMD and VIA should stop developing new processors.

Nvidia and ATI should stop developing new GPUs.

Motherboard manufacturers should just produce current generation stuff and cut out R&D.

Game developers should all go out of business tomorrow.

Why bother with all that crap.
 
I call BS on this piracy is killing PC gaming thing. People have been pirating games on 5.25" floppies back for the Commodore64 and AppleIIe like wild-fire. Back in the DOS days there was massive piracy, BBS, usenet, copied floppies. Same thing on windows, IRC, FTP servers, etc. Like all of a sudden these publishers hear about BitTorrent and they think piracy just came out last year!!! Bollocks!!!

Plus, if the GPU manufacturers don't come out with new hardware, how are the game developers going to make games for the next-gen platforms. Most likely we are looking at a new Xbox is 3 years time, maybe less. Some games take that long to make or longer. So the devs need some sort of target platform to work on, or at least prototype their ideas. You have to assume that teams may already be working on launch titles for the next-gen consoles.

Not only that, but the Xbox is basically a proprietary PC. It still needs a video card to run, and ATI is likely knee-deep working on the Xbox720 GPU. Obviously they are going to want to incorporate this technology into their PC products. Its possible we will see the results of this R&D before these next-gen consoles debut. So no matter what, the consoles are still intrinsically tied to the advancement in the PC sector. Without the PC as a gaming platform, there really wouldn't be consoles as we know them.
 
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