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Considering the Magnepan MMG again...
- Thread starter 450
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Hmm, the speakers are about $1200 if remember correctly and the amp I'm not sure about. I didn't like the specs or the fact that it's measured from 40Hz, that says it might not perform so well in the low end. I did a search and found a review that pretty much confirms my theory. http://whathifi.com/Review/Marantz-PM5003/
If it sounded good to you then go for it, you can always upgrade the amplifier later. Think about better amplification before a sub with the MG12s. Proper placement will yield great bass response. Better amplification will help reduce the chance of distortion on bass heavy and complex material. These speakers drink current, remember that. ENJOY!!!
Thanks for the input. The speakers were powered by a Yamaha Receiver, not the Marantz. However today I went back and asked to listen to the speakers with the Marantz. You were right, the low end disappeared and I wasn't happy at all. Since the Marantz isn't good, do you have any good reccommendations for amps around ~$350.
Strong, quality amps that are able to fully power magneplanar speakers don't come cheap.
The closest to your preferred price in new would be the Outlaw M2200, I think ($700+shipping). All the other options I listed are discontinued models that are super reliable, sturdy, and high quality AND sold on the grey market frequently.
The closest to your preferred price in new would be the Outlaw M2200, I think ($700+shipping). All the other options I listed are discontinued models that are super reliable, sturdy, and high quality AND sold on the grey market frequently.
Thanks for the info Alai. I'll try to convince my friend that used is the way to go.
Now onto another thing. At the moment I'm not sure I want to get the MMG (+ REL or eD sub) or just the MG12's.
EDIT: Would I be able to get the MG12's for $800 used? Also would something like the Yamaha RX-V2200 be okay for the MG12's?
Now onto another thing. At the moment I'm not sure I want to get the MMG (+ REL or eD sub) or just the MG12's.
EDIT: Would I be able to get the MG12's for $800 used? Also would something like the Yamaha RX-V2200 be okay for the MG12's?
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Look at these nice, cheap prices for used, good condition Magnepan speakers. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl?searchstring=magnepan&B1=go
I couldn't find anything in the specs that mentioned true 4ohm operation. This is a MUST HAVE capability. Maggies require a lot of current.
I'm shocked that they auditioned the MG12s with the Yamaha but pitched you a deal with that Marantz integrated unit.
I would look at the amps that Alai mentioned. Be sure to check out Audio Asylum's planar forum and read through the threads there.
Oh and for now, don't get caught up in the wire game, I personally think it's bullshit for short runs of cable. 75ohm interconnect is fine.
if I described my thoughts on "high end speaker cable" or "high end interconnects", it'd make tesafaye's post look like that of a vehement fanboy of audiophile cable solutions
as far as speaker cable goes, make sure its fat enough for your length + the power thats going over it, but beyond that, its all good
the ratshack ICs have nice build quality (if we're thinking of the same thing), go with it, nothing wrong there, unless the length just bugs you (i.e: cord hell makes you do bad things)
regarding the amp/receiver/whatever:
don't know much about Marantz in general (just never really interested me on any level)
do know Yamaha though (not EVERY model, but have good experiences overall), the V2200 is sorta dated, from its specs, RMS power is not listed for 4 ohms, but dynamic power is (I'm not loving that, but the #'s do look realistic), honestly it isn't anything world shaking (we aren't talking DSP-A1000 or Cent series here), if the price is low, not a bad idea, but I probably wouldn't be so keen on hooking it up with Maggies (although anything else suggested in this thread will go no problem, like those Mirage's)
basically point is: Yamaha does make models which will drive Maggies (Yamaha does make models which will blow Maggies apart
), but they also made a lot of crap in the late 1990's and early 2000's (ESPECIALLY) that isn't even worth bothering with, the V2200 is probably on the fence here, it isn't a bad box, depending on what you're hooking up to, Maggies would probably run it hotQuestion about amplification...
My current TX-DS777 does 135wpc @ 6 ohms, 179w peak. I have tested with 4 ohm speakers and they seem to do fine. Would it be okay to use them with MG12's until I get a poweramp? Plus I'd like to use the TX-DS777 as a preamp and amp for my rear channels.
My current TX-DS777 does 135wpc @ 6 ohms, 179w peak. I have tested with 4 ohm speakers and they seem to do fine. Would it be okay to use them with MG12's until I get a poweramp? Plus I'd like to use the TX-DS777 as a preamp and amp for my rear channels.
honestly no idea, onkyo's webpage is about as helpful as a brick wall
it'd work fine as a preamp, and if it will do 4 ohm stable, why replace it, if it works and doesn't run overly hot, just go with it
you don't need audiophile equipment for audiophile quality sound (
)As tesfaye pointed out, the maggies need tons of current AND the current control to go with it. If you use your current amp, I would say just make sure not to pump the volume even close to a high level. Keep it moderate and don't even think about raising it any higher.
Here's the thing about Maggies and that rather annoying 4ohm requirement. Maggies are 4ohm across it's entire frequency range save for a sharp dip near it's crossover point. A receiver not build to handle that kind of load will fry or run VERY hot under heavy usage. A good receiver will either be rated to handle 4ohms stable or have full spectrum RMS ratings that double with each drop in resistance (50W@8ohms, 100W@4ohms, 200W@2ohms etc). Those units will have beefy transformers, caps, higher grade components all around.honestly no idea, onkyo's webpage is about as helpful as a brick wall
it'd work fine as a preamp, and if it will do 4 ohm stable, why replace it, if it works and doesn't run overly hot, just go with it
you don't need audiophile equipment for audiophile quality sound (
But like obobski said, if it works, run with it. Just keep an eye out on those temps when turning the volume up. Those Maggies will quickly let you know if they are current starved. The clipping will show up during passages you wouldn't normally expect.
So here is what I'm thinking and my budget for each item...
Harman Kardon Stereo Receiver refurb- $225 (w/shipping)
Parts Express 8" Elite Subwoofer - $100 (w/shipping)
Magnapan MMG - $450 (w/shipping)
$775 total!
I considered many of the amps that Alai mentioned but I'd also need a preamp, and I intend to upgrade the H/K later along the line.
Harman Kardon Stereo Receiver refurb- $225 (w/shipping)
Parts Express 8" Elite Subwoofer - $100 (w/shipping)
Magnapan MMG - $450 (w/shipping)
$775 total!
I considered many of the amps that Alai mentioned but I'd also need a preamp, and I intend to upgrade the H/K later along the line.
Another amp idea:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html
Nice feature that it has is analog bass management so you can filter the low freq's out of the Maggies and direct them into the sub (which in turn would take some stress of the amp). It has a few other bells and whistles and is even on sale at the moment
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html
Nice feature that it has is analog bass management so you can filter the low freq's out of the Maggies and direct them into the sub (which in turn would take some stress of the amp). It has a few other bells and whistles and is even on sale at the moment
Nice feature that it has is analog bass management so you can filter the low freq's out of the Maggies and direct them into the sub (which in turn would take some stress of the amp). It has a few other bells and whistles and is even on sale at the moment
Couldn't I just use a high pass filter (maggie mates?) or use one from a subwoofer?
If you are using a subwoofer, of course you might as well get a receiver or surround processor. I would honestly still suggest getting a separate amp (assuming your receiver has preouts) since Maggies tend to be really hard to amplify. H/K and Marantz have great reputations for their amp section of their receivers... but still...
Anyhow, you really don't need a preamp with the amp unless you are looking to connect a CD player to the speakers. The only reason you would NEED a preamp is for volume control.
If you are connecting the speakers to the computer, then you just need an amp. The computer will act as a preamp/processor.
My 0404's software has a nasty habit of going to 100% volume on restart. I'd hate to kill my ears/speakers/power amp. Is there any sort of cheap passive preamp I could buy?
Also what do you think of this? http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHA500
It claims to output 230w at 4 ohms, and its only $200.
I guess it shouldn't be too bad... but keep in mind that the input connector you will be using is TRS, not RCA. I have a couple professional amps that have similar specs... honestly, the amps I have listed for you sound much much better and cleaner. If Maggies are as transparent as you say they are, then I suspect you will want the amp to sound very clean.
If you really want to keep it at $200, look for the Adcom GFA-545 or Acurus A100 or A150. I think the Carver TFM-15 could do the job as well, though I can't be too sure.
If you really want to keep it at $200, look for the Adcom GFA-545 or Acurus A100 or A150. I think the Carver TFM-15 could do the job as well, though I can't be too sure.
If they work in the same way as the passive filters I've used then sure as long as your receiver has main in/pre-outs. The one downside is that you are limited to the crossover point of the passive filter. You may also be able to use the one from the sub but most recommend to avoid that route.
doesn't always double/halve as you change impedance, because current or voltage is rarely equal across the range (the only amplifier I can think of off hand that maintains 1:1 voltage from 1 ohm to 8 ohm is the Accuphase M-8000, which will maintain roughly 44.7Vrms every day of the week into almost any load), most amplifiers have a degree of inefficiency when you move too low or too high impedance wise, for example it may deliver 200Wpc RMS into 8 ohms, but only 375Wpc RMS into 4 ohms, or something like that
doesn't mean its a bad amplifier, but it can give you some insight into how stable it will actually be into a rated nominal impedance, and at your price segment, this is probably going to many amps/receivers available to you (where it isn't a perfect linear scale)
CI Audio makes some passive controllers like this, if the quality is in line with everything else, don't see why it'd be a problem
although, for that kind of money, you could get an active solution, like a Mackie Big Knob or something, and gain some features
as far as that amplifier goes, if they're not lying on the specs, it shouldn't be a problem, a number of PA amps at the cheap end tend to overstate their abilities a bit, just like car audio amps, or if they can run at those rated numbers, they still run hot, just because thats what you get with cheap crap
what does "sound much cleaner" mean?
yeah, basically what he said
another alternative would be an active crossover, Behringer makes one, dbx probably makes one, BBE probably makes something similar to an active xover, some PreSonus and MOTU equipment can run variable xover settings, wouldn't be surprised if M-Audio/E-MU/Lynx had similar features as well
As in less muddy. Details are more pronounced.
Getting a 4 ohm stable amp/receiver definitely makes sense but if it were my money and I were looking for improvements in details/sound I wouldn't put it into an amp. To me that would be more in the speaker quality/room acoustics/speaker placement areas.
I've auditioned the MMG's and while they were not my cup of tea I can see why people enjoy them. I hope you have enough space to keep these away from walls (especially the back walls) since they are dipoles. Putting a speaker like this in a cramped situation may be disappointing. Either way they do have a generous audition policy and are great to deal with.
stacksmasher
n00b
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I have been watching this thread for a while and I wonder what the outcome was? What components did you end up getting and how does it all sound?
I also want a pair of MMG's but just bought an home theater system and have to wait a bit for a dedicated 2 channel setup.
I also want a pair of MMG's but just bought an home theater system and have to wait a bit for a dedicated 2 channel setup.
Not only 4 ohm stable but high current as well. MMGs and Maggies in general suck up current. The good thing is there aren't any wild impedance swings to drive an amp crazy, the amp just needs to be able to supply the juice at 4 ohms.
It all counts, but in my opinion the room setup and placement of the speakers comes first then the component tweaking. Anyways, MMG placement can be difficult but there are a shit-ton of speakers out there that can be difficult to place in a room. You do need about 2 feet (in my experience) behind the speaker to keep it from sounding constricted in the midrange. Getting good bass can be challange from what I've read but in practice for me in about 6 different rooms across 3 different homes, I haven't run into any problems. Side reflections aren't an issue really since there is no side radiation, it's front and back in a straight line. You can always put some treatment behind the speakers that diffuse the waves if you need to put them closer to the wall, that worked ok for me when I was playing around with speaker placement for shits a giggles.
They play pretty loud but nothing above 100db at a listening distance of about 9 feet. I'm only running a 100watt Arcam amp (4ohms) and I can get to about 96-98db reliably without clipping if I have the receiver set to cut off frequencies below 50hz. But some material can cause clipping if the range is abnormally wide. I don't listen that loud normally, usually around 92db with movies. I'm measuring with a RatShack digital spl meter (yes, I know the analog ones were more accurate).
I'm curious also. I added a pair of MMGWs for surround duty and lemme tell you, it's phenomenal! Now these are 3'x10"x1" and wall mounted so they aren't small and you can't hide them but you can swivel them back flush to the wall when not in use for improved WAF. It helps to have a receiver that can do different crossover points for all of the speakers.
astrallite
Gawd
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Few things happened...
1. Both my roommate and I lost time for critical listening, and when we did have time, the other one would need quiet, so I migrated to headphones. Furthermore, I was going to have the living room be a dedicated listening room, but my friend needed a place to stay as well, and my bedroom proved to be a less than ideal spot for them. (lack of proper space)
2. The MMGs wouldn't work with my Onkyo receiver very well. The receiver would get somewhat hot and the MMGs didn't sound great out of it.
3. In my bedroom, the sound wasn't great since I couldn't position them right.
Magnepan's will have to wait!
Sorry to hear that 450, hopefully it all works out for you eventually. I've had less time lately to do any serious listening, but I still get to enjoy them. I just watch more movies since my wife prefers movies to music. When she goes to bed I listen to music if I'm not too tired but I can't crank it since the kids room is nearby. I plug in my Shure E4g earphones when its really late.
Astrallite, I've heard REALLY GOOD things about those Emotiva amps. The snobs swear by their megabuck amps but I've heard that those Emotive units compete very closely. I wouldn't mind getting that 5 channel unit but I have no space for another amp. I just put a HTPC in the cabinet and that maxed it out. The UPA2 unit looks good. I can't believe the price, $299 for 180x2@4ohm capable amp with 45,000uF of capacitance, and a toroid transformer? That's insane! If they have a no questions asked return policy, I might give the two channel unit a shot and see how well it plays with the MMGs.
I plug in my Shure E4g earphones when its really late. Astrallite, I've heard REALLY GOOD things about those Emotiva amps. The snobs swear by their megabuck amps but I've heard that those Emotive units compete very closely. I wouldn't mind getting that 5 channel unit but I have no space for another amp. I just put a HTPC in the cabinet and that maxed it out. The UPA2 unit looks good. I can't believe the price, $299 for 180x2@4ohm capable amp with 45,000uF of capacitance, and a toroid transformer? That's insane! If they have a no questions asked return policy, I might give the two channel unit a shot and see how well it plays with the MMGs.
Sold my old floorstanding speakers so I'm now thinking about what I can get...
I'm thinking about getting the MMG + UPA-2. However some of the reviews I've been reading say that they aren't so good with rock and electronic music. I'm really trying to keep this under $800 this time so I doubt a subwoofer would fit in the budget.
Since I listen to classical, opera, and electronic music I'd like to have a versatile setup. Another option would be to get the Wharfedale 9.6 speakers. Not sure yet which is the way to go.
I'm thinking about getting the MMG + UPA-2. However some of the reviews I've been reading say that they aren't so good with rock and electronic music. I'm really trying to keep this under $800 this time so I doubt a subwoofer would fit in the budget.
Since I listen to classical, opera, and electronic music I'd like to have a versatile setup. Another option would be to get the Wharfedale 9.6 speakers. Not sure yet which is the way to go.
The UPA-2 I am looking at is about 185 WPC at 4 ohms. I think thats good enough.
astrallite
Gawd
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Emotiva has great prices for the amount of power they give out. 500W x 2 (4Ω for $799, that is insane.
If you needed more power on a budget you'd probably need to go for an ICEPower amp...like D-Sonic M1000S 1100W x 2 (4Ω is $1575 O_O
for $799, that is insane. If you needed more power on a budget you'd probably need to go for an ICEPower amp...like D-Sonic M1000S 1100W x 2 (4Ω
is $1575 O_OI understand that Emotiva is a great value for the money however I don't think I want to pay that much at this point.
I was considering the Adcom GFA545 that puts out 150w x2 at 4 ohms. However, if that isn't enough, I'll certainly look at Emotiva's XPA-2 and UPA-2 once again.
EDIT: I'm now considering the Panasonic SA-XR55...Some people are powering 1.6's so the MMGs should work.
I was considering the Adcom GFA545 that puts out 150w x2 at 4 ohms. However, if that isn't enough, I'll certainly look at Emotiva's XPA-2 and UPA-2 once again.
EDIT: I'm now considering the Panasonic SA-XR55...Some people are powering 1.6's so the MMGs should work.
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A stable 150W@4ohms is enough to play plenty loud (properly setup of course). I'm greedy so I want more than the 100Wpc that I'm running now. I've lived with my setup for quite a few years now and I've never stopped loving it.
Some people are powering the 1.6's with that Panny reciever, but how does it sound? The MMGs may not cost $3000 but they can be just as if not more revealing of the upstream components like a speaker in that price range would be.
In the end, don't drive yourself crazy, get the speakers, get the amp you can afford (100W@4ohms pc at least) and take the time to play with speaker placement. Hopefully you have some wiggle room in your "listening room".
Some people are powering the 1.6's with that Panny reciever, but how does it sound? The MMGs may not cost $3000 but they can be just as if not more revealing of the upstream components like a speaker in that price range would be.
In the end, don't drive yourself crazy, get the speakers, get the amp you can afford (100W@4ohms pc at least) and take the time to play with speaker placement. Hopefully you have some wiggle room in your "listening room".
astrallite
Gawd
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If you just wanted a receiver, I think the getting an Onkyo TX-SR805 would be an excellent idea. It was probably Onkyo's best "value" receiver ever. Since the TX-SRxx5 series, Onkyo has cut back on their power supplies.
TX-SR805/875
http://web4.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2463/test-bench-onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver.html
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.02/0.03%
Noise level (A-weighted): -76.1 dB
Unit Weight: 51lbs
To give you a comparison for an equivalently priced receiver
Denon 2307ci
http://web2.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2171/test-bench-denon-avr-2307ci-av-receiver.html
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 140/226 watts
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 86 watts
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 74 watts
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.05/0.06%
Noise level (A-weighted): –75.3 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.6 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz ±0.1 dB
Unit weight: 29lbs
Verdict: For the average $600 online price, the Onkyo TX-SR805 is a beast. Heavier receivers means bigger heatsinks...it's a sign of a beefy amp. I'm not sure if the Maggies have more than one pair of binding strips...but there is a bi-amp mode if you need a little more juice.
TX-SR805/875
http://web4.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2463/test-bench-onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver.html
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.02/0.03%
Noise level (A-weighted): -76.1 dB
Unit Weight: 51lbs
To give you a comparison for an equivalently priced receiver
Denon 2307ci
http://web2.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2171/test-bench-denon-avr-2307ci-av-receiver.html
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 140/226 watts
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 86 watts
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 74 watts
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.05/0.06%
Noise level (A-weighted): –75.3 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.6 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz ±0.1 dB
Unit weight: 29lbs
Verdict: For the average $600 online price, the Onkyo TX-SR805 is a beast. Heavier receivers means bigger heatsinks...it's a sign of a beefy amp. I'm not sure if the Maggies have more than one pair of binding strips...but there is a bi-amp mode if you need a little more juice.
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