Considering a Macbook Pro 17... wait on Ivy and possible retina, or take the plunge?

Deinos

Gawd
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Hey guys,

I have been looking into taking the plunge on purchasing a new 17" Macbook Pro. I am currently a comp sci student nearing the end of school. I would be using it to do some Java programming, web development, etc, as well as daily computing and some light gaming. The main appeal to me was the screen and build quality (as well as ability to do some iOS development). I would probably spend equal time in OSX and Windows 7 in bootcamp.

Recently, I've seen some closeout deals (new, in box) on the last iteration of the Macbook Pro 17 at $1,799.99, glossy screen. Seems to be a hell of a deal compared to the cost of a new one is $2,499.99.

I guess what I am asking is: do you think the retina display (if it even happens) is worth paying a premium on the new device? Same question with regards to Ivy Bridge as well.

I don't care so much about the possibility of Macbook Air sizes (especially if it comes at the cost of the GPU, in regards to cooling).

Just wanted to get some opinions from current Apple users and people that use these as developer box's, etc. This would be my first foray into Apple products (outside of iPhones and iPads).

Thanks!
 
I'm also waiting on a 17" retina, but I am sure Apple is going to ease into it. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't stick it in the Air and/or 13" MBP before moving up the sizes in a next generation.

I have some cynical ideas about how they are going to do retina on the MBP's, specifically the 17".
 
I wouldn't expect this next round of MacBook Pro's to have a retina display. Apple rumors would be heating up like fire for that kind of announcement. But I would definitely wait for the next round regardless. Nearly every Apple product is due for a refresh soon.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
 
I wouldn't expect this next round of MacBook Pro's to have a retina display. Apple rumors would be heating up like fire for that kind of announcement. But I would definitely wait for the next round regardless. Nearly every Apple product is due for a refresh soon.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

This. Retina is unlikely to materialize before Mountain Lion, as retina support isn't complete in Lion. I would expect models that come out after August to offer Retina options. There is talk that Apple will announce new Macbooks in April/May, so I would wait if you are considering purchasing soon and care about Ivy Bridge. Expect new CPUs and GPUs, but don't hold your breath on Retina displays.
 
Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I am struggling with whether or not Ivy a new GPU and a possibility of retina is worth $700 ( more if Apple decides to up the base price after the upgrades).

From what I have seen, Ivy isn't going to be a huge increase in performance, but will be an ok bump in battery life and heat management (which is good when your chassis is made of aluminum:) ). A new GPU would be nice, but historically, it seems that Apple doesn't make huge moves on internals in regards to keeping current with the bleeding edge. Also, if they end up shrinking the chassis size, chances are they are going to think a weak gpu, or onboard gfx (which, now that I think about it, is another Ivy benefit, as onboard Intel gfx are reputed to be a lot better) is ok.
 
I was all geared up to get a next-gen iMac or Macbook Pro this year; but now the retina iPad has spoiled me.

Retina / HiDPI is the future, and every time I look at my current MBP's screen I just see.... pixels. It may be another year or so but it's one of those things where I'll regret not waiting when it finally comes out.

I'll probably have to put an SSD into my current notebook to tide me over though. :D
 
Yeah, I have yet to mess with an iPad 3 in person... need to hit up an Apple store when things slow down a little bit around here. So far, all of my friends and my wife have an iPad 2, so no one has taken the plunge yet, so I can't pretend I was planning to visit (when I really just want to see their shiny new iPad ;)).

HiDPI would definitely be nice for coding... but hard to ignore the big discounts that are surely coming on the old displays.
 
I am in the same boat really, except I am a .Net developer starting to branch out in to iOS.

Microcenter has a few Early 2011 17" MBP for $1999 vs $2339 for the Late 2011 17. The differences are the earlier one has an 200mhz slower and the 6750M GPU vs the 6770M. The most I play game wise is WoW so the 6750M would be ok for me.

Ivy Bridge is not a huge step up from the i7's in the current ones. I am more worried that they are going to remove the optical drive in an effort to slim them down more and will loose ability to replace it with a 2nd HDD.

EDIT: I am wrong on the difference.... The late 17 does have teh express/34 and 3rd USB port.
 
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I'm in exactly the same boat. What I'm hoping someone can clear up is how Apple and software providers will account for the high dpi of a retina display with respect to making text big enough to read.
Once these displays come out will everyone have to write their code in their programs to make text big enough to be readable?

*Jinx TType85! lol*
 
I am more worried that they are going to remove the optical drive in an effort to slim them down more and will loose ability to replace it with a 2nd HDD.

There's a very good chance optical drives are going bye-bye in the next iteration of MBPs.
 
I'd be fine with the lack of an optical drive. Been using an m11x, haven't needed the optical drive... and when I do, I have a perfectly fine external drive that gets it done.
 
I'd be fine with the lack of an optical drive. Been using an m11x, haven't needed the optical drive... and when I do, I have a perfectly fine external drive that gets it done.

The optical drive itself is not the issue. The nice thing about having it there is you can replace it with another HDD/SDD.
 
The optical drive itself is not the issue. The nice thing about having it there is you can replace it with another HDD/SDD.

Good point... touche:)

My only hope is that they do not go all in on the integrated graphics or some similarly underpowered solution. If they shrink the form factor down much more, I don't see how they will be able to provide adequate cooling... the current version heats up enough as it is under load.
 
Good point... touche:)

My only hope is that they do not go all in on the integrated graphics or some similarly underpowered solution. If they shrink the form factor down much more, I don't see how they will be able to provide adequate cooling... the current version heats up enough as it is under load.

They won't do that with the MBP. They have solid products with the Air, and MacBook for people that want a small laptop. The MacBook Pro is marketed towards people that want good performance in a mobile form factor. It's a very real possibility that they will remove the optical drive (and I agree on the 2nd hard drive swap). However, I highly doubt they will sacrifice CPU or GPU power to get a smaller form factor on the MacBook Pro. It goes against what their target audience is looking for.
 
They won't do that with the MBP. They have solid products with the Air, and MacBook for people that want a small laptop. The MacBook Pro is marketed towards people that want good performance in a mobile form factor. It's a very real possibility that they will remove the optical drive (and I agree on the 2nd hard drive swap). However, I highly doubt they will sacrifice CPU or GPU power to get a smaller form factor on the MacBook Pro. It goes against what their target audience is looking for.

What scares me is that Apple's actions seems to indicate that they are moving away from the pro-oriented consumer types. Although what you say is completely reasonable, what comes to my mind is the fact that the Mac Pro has not received an upgrade in almost 2 years and the whole fiasco with Final Cut X that made a lot of professionals move away from it. They might just make a 15" MBA and cancel the whole MBP line all together when Apple does update their Mac line. Regardless of what happens, I would wait to buy a MBP. Prices will fall even more than the prices they are at now if a new refreshed MBP/MBA is introduced (unless stock is low, which is worth the gamble, imo).
 
I ended up saving a few bucks and getting a 15 instead of the 17. Microcenter had it for $100 off ($1699) so it was $300 cheaper than 17 and much easier to lug around.

I threw in 16GB ram and it's running great.
 
i too took the plunge on 15" and slapped 8gb ram and went for high res anti glare

i was in the bracket of need it now kind of thing, and if they ommit the dvd drive, that is one more thing i would have to carry around.
 
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I would wait to see what the next refresh has. It should be coming in the next month or two.
 
I'd wait, but I'm a PC guy, for the same price you could get a far more powerful PC laptop...

If you have to get a MBP 17", max it out! Spec it for the maximum spec, because you'll want Apple Care too to keep your investment for a long time.
 
i am a PC guy too, selling my xps 15z, because work bought me MBP.

i have used/owned the cream of the crop of PC laptops and i have to admit, construction and touchpad wise nothing touches MBP. but it is, and always will be, overpriced which is why i consistently invest in my desktop.
 
i am a PC guy too, selling my xps 15z, because work bought me MBP.

i have used/owned the cream of the crop of PC laptops and i have to admit, construction and touchpad wise nothing touches MBP. but it is, and always will be, overpriced which is why i consistently invest in my desktop.

I use a mouse with my laptop so that is non-issue for me. Did you look at Lenovo laptops?
 
For me, the main thing was the 1920 x 1200 screen... everything else would just be icing on the cake. Otherwise, I am considering a Thinkpad W520.
 
i dont even care about the 6770 in my 17"
i just needed the screen and the awesome CPU... sata3 is a bonus :D
ordered a 120 ssd.... gonna load some VMs onto it and get some work done!
 
How is VMware Fusion vs Parallels. I've heard varying reports on how much of the GPU RAM each uses, etc. Are either "good enough", or is it more worth while to use bootcamp if you are going to be utilizing Windows a great deal? Also, how complicated is backing the system up when you utilize bootcamp, etc.?
 
i am a PC guy too, selling my xps 15z, because work bought me MBP.

i have used/owned the cream of the crop of PC laptops and i have to admit, construction and touchpad wise nothing touches MBP. but it is, and always will be, overpriced which is why i consistently invest in my desktop.

I used to feel the same way, but "overpriced" is really an overgeneralization. That's because spec-for-spec, the MBP does cost way more, but if you factor in things like build quality, resale value, and the fact that they're very well engineered (e.g., very strong battery life, limited fan noise, etc.), then suddenly all that extra considered value doesn't make it all that overpriced at all.
 
Wait. May the patience be with you.

It's unlikely we'll see retina this year, as has been said, Mountain Lion isn't due even for six or so months.
 
Hey guys,

I have been looking into taking the plunge on purchasing a new 17" Macbook Pro. I am currently a comp sci student nearing the end of school. I would be using it to do some Java programming, web development, etc, as well as daily computing and some light gaming. The main appeal to me was the screen and build quality (as well as ability to do some iOS development). I would probably spend equal time in OSX and Windows 7 in bootcamp.

Recently, I've seen some closeout deals (new, in box) on the last iteration of the Macbook Pro 17 at $1,799.99, glossy screen. Seems to be a hell of a deal compared to the cost of a new one is $2,499.99.

I guess what I am asking is: do you think the retina display (if it even happens) is worth paying a premium on the new device? Same question with regards to Ivy Bridge as well.

I don't care so much about the possibility of Macbook Air sizes (especially if it comes at the cost of the GPU, in regards to cooling).

Just wanted to get some opinions from current Apple users and people that use these as developer box's, etc. This would be my first foray into Apple products (outside of iPhones and iPads).

Thanks!

The Dot pitch on a 17 inch 1920x1080 is already "retina". So no, there is no reason to increase the resolution. Hell, MacBooks are still on TN displays, so Apple would improve by utilizing an IPS display for starters.
 
The Dot pitch on a 17 inch 1920x1080 is already "retina". So no, there is no reason to increase the resolution. Hell, MacBooks are still on TN displays, so Apple would improve by utilizing an IPS display for starters.

So how about the 1680x1050 on the 15" screen? I can't imagine how crisp, but tiny, the text must be on that one.
 
So how about the 1680x1050 on the 15" screen? I can't imagine how crisp, but tiny, the text must be on that one.

It's about the same, very high. Both are pixel-invisible at viewing distances of around 1 feet.

My 27" iMac has worse pixel pitch than even the lowest Macbook Pro, but it's also pixel invisible at 1 feet viewing distance and most of the time I few the screen at 2-3 feet away.
 
tiny? probably not

i had xps 15z with 1920x1080 reso and text on that was fine. i order my MBP with high res anti glare (so 1680x1050) ... highly doubt it will be hard to read
 
I disagree that Apple 1920x1200 is enough on the 17". They could easily bump up it up to 2560x1600 in the same form factor and get a slew of people wanting to purchase it.

Personally, what I see the greatest strength of the 17" is it's ability to be mobile media machine. Examples from the world I spend time investing in is photography and videography. Many times assignments require travel, and of course laptops are the most convenient. Having a higher resolution monitor would assist in photo editing and give more pixels for those editing 4k-5k resolution, and for those editing 1080p it would allow space for on-screen controls, timelines etc while still outputting full resolution.

The leap to 2560x1600 wouldn't be such a strain on current laptop video cards as they all can output to that resolution externally anyway, and the production costs of such a display isn't so catastrophically high that it's cost prohibitive for Apple to manufacture it. A similar bump could be done to 15" and below. A 1920x1200 monitor for 15", and a 1680x1050 for 13", etc.

Most media people would go nuts for something like that.
 
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I disagree that Apple 1920x1200 is enough on the 17". They could easily bump up it up to 2560x1600 in the same form factor and get a slew of people wanting to purchase it.

Personally, what I see the greatest strength of the 17" is it's ability to be mobile media machine. Examples from the world I spend time investing in is photography and videography. Many times assignments require travel, and of course laptops are the most convenient. Having a higher resolution monitor would assist in photo editing and give more pixels for those editing 4k-5k resolution, and for those editing 1080p it would allow space for on-screen controls, timelines etc while still outputting full resolution.

The leap to 2560x1600 wouldn't be such a strain on current laptop video cards as they all can output to that resolution externally anyway, and the production costs of such a display isn't so catastrophically high that it's cost prohibitive for Apple to manufacture it. A similar bump could be done to 15" and below. A 1920x1200 monitor for 15", and a 1680x1050 for 13", etc.

Most media people would go nuts for something like that.

Photo editing is not a resolution concern - it's a panel quality, color accuracy, gamut, etc concern. So far, Macbook Pros still use TN and are poor screens when put next to a good IPS display.
 
This. Retina is unlikely to materialize before Mountain Lion, as retina support isn't complete in Lion. I would expect models that come out after August to offer Retina options. There is talk that Apple will announce new Macbooks in April/May, so I would wait if you are considering purchasing soon and care about Ivy Bridge. Expect new CPUs and GPUs, but don't hold your breath on Retina displays.

wouldn't retina, high res, support be in the vid card drivers... not the OS?

Interesting to know they are using TN Panels, aren't the macbook pro's touted as media machines?
 
wouldn't retina, high res, support be in the vid card drivers... not the OS?

Interesting to know they are using TN Panels, aren't the macbook pro's touted as media machines?

They're going to need icon and font support for the retina, otherwise they'll need to scale everything which would work, but it won't look that good.

The TN panels are still pretty good, I believe the TN panels require less backlighting for the same brightness levels, helping with battery life. Response time is usually better with a TN as well. Just different trade offs.
 
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