The screens in the MBP are vastly better than most TN screens used in cheap notebooks but aren't as good as comparable IPS screens on the HPs, Dells, Sonys etc.
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Considering a Macbook Pro 17... wait on Ivy and possible retina, or take the plunge?
- Thread starter Deinos
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The screens in the MBP are vastly better than most TN screens used in cheap notebooks but aren't as good as comparable IPS screens on the HPs, Dells, Sonys etc.
UnknownSouljer
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Ugh, there are many people who've written on this topic, but the long and the short of it is this: even on the best monitors that cover the largest amount of the sRGB and Adobe spectrum with excellent color reproduction are still going to have issues. The biggest of which is the user install base. A majority of commercial photography and even videography is going where? Either the internet or TV. There is the end users who don't bother to calibrate and certainly don't bother to have the best screens.
So where does the difference matter? Probably only in print and/or in a theater. The print thing is already a problem. If you're in photography enough you know it's not just about calibrating the monitor it's also about calibrating the printer. That process is not only time consuming, but literally impossible to maintain as perfect calibration is short lived. This is only compounded by the fact that most people in the industry do not print their own stuff. I would say it's an extreme minority of people that have large format printers or even commercial grade printers to print photos.
Secondly, out here in the real world with people doing jobs like I mentioned in my first post, people are using Macbook Pros. This is either a true statement or a false statement. Obviously it's true. Several of my photography heroes do this. Vincent Laforet is a good example. He has been using 2x MBP's on the road for sometime. While out on assignment especially while he was working in the publication industry he didn't always have the luxury of going home and using his Mac Pro setup with dual 30" displays. Now that he's in video it's a similar situation. Using a MBP in order to meet deadlines.
Elia Locardi is another excellent example of a MBP only user. He now doesn't even own a home so that he can constantly be on the road to do travel photography. Seriously, Google him and check out his work. If you believe it's all down to IPS panels, gamut, color accuracy, sRGB, and Adobe coverage, you're wrong.
It's also the Mac ecosystem and people who prefer to work on that system. It's an understanding that perfect calibration is only relevant if everything else is perfect calibrated, and the perspective that these are all tools. I've done plenty of critical work on both MBP's (TN) and iMac's (IPS) and if I showed you a stack of 25 edited photos from both, I highly doubt you'd be able to guess which system I used with any accuracy beyond blind luck. This isn't to say that those things like gamut, contrast, etc. are unimportant or useless, but when expressing how resolution would really benefit this industry, you had a dry response that the resolution bump would be significantly less important than moving to an IPS panel, which I disagree with.
Okay, so maybe this begs the question: would I be opposed to MBP's getting some variety of an IPS display? No, of course not. But if you've ever used an MBP their current panel quality isn't nearly as poor as compared to other TN panels on the market. Not to mention it's excellent vs other laptops in general. It already meets close to 100% of the sRGB range. It has good contrast. Once again, could it be better? Sure, resolution is one of the ways it could be better, but of course, everything could be better. However, at some point you either can spend your whole life going crazy diving through spec sheets and wondering if the display you have is good enough, or actually get some work done. Personally for pros and myself, getting work done is the higher priority.
knight427
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An now the MBP portion of Apple.com is down.
UnknownSouljer, you make some good points. But let's be honest. Apple has been using just-good-enough specs in the MBP line for a while now. You want high end GPUs...sorry. How about Extreme CPUs? Nope. Multiple Hard Drives? Sorry again. Apple makes huge profits becuase they use their volume to buy up just-good-enough parts to put low end PCs to shame, then price them under the best PCs. They don't have 8 or 10-bit IPS because they can't sell that upgrade to enough of their user base to make it worth their while. End of story.
Who knows though, maybe with their push in resolution (which I commend them for), they will just go for it and make everything IPS.
Also, I have no professional need of my HP DreamColor panel, but DAMN, it is totally awesome. Best upgrade ever.
UnknownSouljer, you make some good points. But let's be honest. Apple has been using just-good-enough specs in the MBP line for a while now. You want high end GPUs...sorry. How about Extreme CPUs? Nope. Multiple Hard Drives? Sorry again. Apple makes huge profits becuase they use their volume to buy up just-good-enough parts to put low end PCs to shame, then price them under the best PCs. They don't have 8 or 10-bit IPS because they can't sell that upgrade to enough of their user base to make it worth their while. End of story.
Who knows though, maybe with their push in resolution (which I commend them for), they will just go for it and make everything IPS.
Also, I have no professional need of my HP DreamColor panel, but DAMN, it is totally awesome. Best upgrade ever.
UnknownSouljer
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I don't disagree with your comment at all per se. I use Mac's because I am more productive on them than I am with Windows (due to the OS and Software), and of course I like that combination with the hardware offerings they have. If you need a system with IPS, dual HD's, Quadro/FireGL graphics, and the like, then yes, MBP's currently don't meet your requirements and getting a PC would of course make better sense.
Apple creates MBP's to sort of meet a certain level of performance with a certain level of simplicity. It would be a lie to say that Apple never considers speed, they do, it's just about their balance that they like to maintain with battery life, heat, weight, thickness/size, and other things of that nature. The simplicity aspect is only having 3 Macbook Pro's to choose from and 5 laptops overall. And of course finally, they are a business, so they design all of their systems to be at a certain price. The 11" MBA at $999, 13" MBP at 1.2k and the 17" MBP at 2.5k are of course very intentionally priced and part of their spec'ing reflects those price points they want to meet.
I'm very sure that if Apple can source the parts that are high end and can meet their requirements for heat, weight, power draw, and price they will. Additionally simplicity, as they very clearly don't offer a lot of customization options on purpose and have even streamlined their purchase and choice system even more to make it as easy as possible.
Would I love to see a 15" MBP with 1920x1200 resolution on a 10-bit IPS panel, Quadro Graphics, 16GB of RAM, with a quad-core Ivy Bridge i7, USB 3, Blu-Ray, eSATA, and 10 hours of battery life for $1.8k? Sure, but I know Apple and their iterative nature, and I know that not even 20% of that stuff will happen.
Honestly, the resolution bump, Ivy Bridge, and a slight graphics card bump is about what is expected. Anything above that would be above and beyond.
Edit: confirmed, MBP section is down! Exciting stuff.
Edit 2: Boooo it's back up and there aren't any changes.
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The 17" MBP has always sold itself on weight, slim profile and battery life. As a professional device, its built quality has been at best similar to other mobile workstations, its performance has been equal or lower, its display less impressive, and its I/O exceptionally limited. I love the MBP line but the 17" model has always existed at a price point that puts it in competition with products significantly better than what you'd get at Best Buy.
Personally I'm not convinced there will be a replacement 17" MBP; the OP might want to keep this in mind. Apple has been systematically taking down its "pro" offerings for some time. The Mac Pro is seemingly left for dead, and I think there are many who expect it to be replaced by a "fast iMac" in the near future. We've already seen what happened with FCP. All the XServe infrastructure was dumped. The 17" laptop falls into a similar category: it's a product targeted at professionals made by a company that frankly doesn't focus much on that market any longer... not when they're selling the number of iPads that they are. So, I could see the 17" disappear.
Personally I'm not convinced there will be a replacement 17" MBP; the OP might want to keep this in mind. Apple has been systematically taking down its "pro" offerings for some time. The Mac Pro is seemingly left for dead, and I think there are many who expect it to be replaced by a "fast iMac" in the near future. We've already seen what happened with FCP. All the XServe infrastructure was dumped. The 17" laptop falls into a similar category: it's a product targeted at professionals made by a company that frankly doesn't focus much on that market any longer... not when they're selling the number of iPads that they are. So, I could see the 17" disappear.
Yeah. I agree and get that feeling as well. I just wish other laptops would include the option for 1920 x 1200 in addition to the size and build quality. I know I can use an external monitor (and in fact I currently use 2), but I travel enough with it that anything short of maximum screen real estate kinda sucks.
Are there any workstation class laptops you'd recommend if the 17 ends up not being refreshed or meeting expectations? I've been look around at the Lenovo w520's, but heard they have taken hits in quality as of late. Also, they got rid of the W700 series (which would have offered the screen I am interested in.
I might go that route and pick up a refurb desktop unit on the cheap for OSX and possible development of iOS.
Also, thx for all of the replies, been informative and interesting.