comptia opposes right to repair bill

erek

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you get certified and your penis grows an inch. certification is one of those meaningless things that people put in their resumes instead of work experience. and yeah, I was certified. lol
only an inch of growth?
 

Sycraft

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They also changed their certification process where you have to give them money every two years to keep your certs up.
That's actually a good thing. The reason they did that is to be ANSI accredited. IT is slowly growing up as a profession and in professions that have certification and licensure, the certifications have to meet certain standards. One of those is the concept of continuing education. You don't get to become certified and then get recognized as an expert forever. You have to keep your knowledge current. So you have to take continuing education in your field, submit that, and get recertified every few years. Yes the cert companies like the recurring money, but the bigger issue is that if you want your cert to be considered valid for things like the DoD 8570 Baseline Certifications, it has to be an ANSI accredited cert which means it has to have continuing education. If you look at their matrix you find that the old school CompTIA certs aren't applicable, only the new ones with continuing education.

Now as for opposing the right to repair? I have no idea why they are being asshats. That is complete BS.
 

Derangel

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You know, for a non-profit org CompTIA goes through a lot of effort to hide who funds them and who their big partners are. Though they do have an exec on their board from Cisco, one of the companies vehemently opposed to right-to-repair. Makes me wonder how much money other anti-repair companies are funneling into CompTIA.
 

luisxd

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If they charge people to have certificates on repairing tech it's a logical move. IMO those certificates are useless these days and CompTIA is just trying to survive their own way, even if it means to be the bad guys.
 

Sycraft

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you get certified and your penis grows an inch. certification is one of those meaningless things that people put in their resumes instead of work experience. and yeah, I was certified. lol
No, it is slowly becoming a thing that more places require, and eventually I suspect IT will be a licensed profession that will need it. I mean you wouldn't go to a doctor that wasn't certified and accredited, you wouldn't fly on a plane with a pilot that wasn't certified, heck you wouldn't hire a plumber that wasn't licensed, which requires certification. Kind of strange that we'd then let someone work on your computers who isn't. Right now, there's no industry wide requirement, of course, but it is slowly starting. If you want to work in any DoD position that deals with cybersecurity, which includes things like sys-admins, managers, etc, you must have and appropriate DoD 8570 Baseline Certification. You either have to have it to get the job, or have to get it within 6 months of getting hired and you have to keep it current. They are also pushing that out to contractors as well, so if you work for a company that contracts for many kinds of federal jobs, you'll have the same requirement. Likewise things like NIST 800-171 can push that all the way down to subcontractors.

You can scoff if you like, but it is the reality of the situation. Likewise there is some utility in certs. They don't tell the whole story, I mean what they ultimately mean is someone was able to pass a test. But work experience doesn't either. All that says is that you were able to not be fired for a given amount of time and that doesn't necessarily mean you were any good, it may just mean you were in tight with management, as we've seen in cases like the Equifax CISO. So certs are a way of evaluating that not only has someone had a job, but they at least know enough to be able to pass a test on knowledge in a given area. That's still no guarantee they don't suck, nothing is, but it helps.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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They're the people behind the A+ hardware, software, and networking certifications. Among other IT related certs.
Ahh. Yeah, for me this stuff is all a hobby. I may do a lot of enterprise type stuff (Virtualized servers, KVM, LXC, trunks, VLANS, optical networking, managed switches, etc. etc.) but I do it for fun at home, so I've never bothered looking into any certifications.
 

c_porter

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No, it is slowly becoming a thing that more places require, and eventually I suspect IT will be a licensed profession that will need it. I mean you wouldn't go to a doctor that wasn't certified and accredited, you wouldn't fly on a plane with a pilot that wasn't certified, heck you wouldn't hire a plumber that wasn't licensed, which requires certification. Kind of strange that we'd then let someone work on your computers who isn't. Right now, there's no industry wide requirement, of course, but it is slowly starting. If you want to work in any DoD position that deals with cybersecurity, which includes things like sys-admins, managers, etc, you must have and appropriate DoD 8570 Baseline Certification. You either have to have it to get the job, or have to get it within 6 months of getting hired and you have to keep it current. They are also pushing that out to contractors as well, so if you work for a company that contracts for many kinds of federal jobs, you'll have the same requirement. Likewise things like NIST 800-171 can push that all the way down to subcontractors.

You can scoff if you like, but it is the reality of the situation. Likewise there is some utility in certs. They don't tell the whole story, I mean what they ultimately mean is someone was able to pass a test. But work experience doesn't either. All that says is that you were able to not be fired for a given amount of time and that doesn't necessarily mean you were any good, it may just mean you were in tight with management, as we've seen in cases like the Equifax CISO. So certs are a way of evaluating that not only has someone had a job, but they at least know enough to be able to pass a test on knowledge in a given area. That's still no guarantee they don't suck, nothing is, but it helps.
Required certs are just a way to build a moat around an industry to entrench certain interests (professional associations and large industry providers, mostly). If you don't want to hire someone with a certification...don't. No need for it to be required by law.
 

Ranulfo

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Louis makes a good point about CompTia A+ tests about 1min30 in. He mentions Firewire being on the A+ test a few years ago which I noticed then and even before with even older stuff like ISA slots. I remember seeing some of the same old outdated questions on tech in 2005 that were still in the 2015 manuals. It was more a history course on PC tech in some ways.
 

tunatime

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The fact we need laws like this is sad and shows how stupid people are. If a company starts making it hard to fix things ideally people would just go buy another company products... sadly no one cares if that new iPhone cant be fix and they keep buying them and now you can't find a phone that has an easy to swap battery ect.
 

Derangel

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The fact we need laws like this is sad and shows how stupid people are. If a company starts making it hard to fix things ideally people would just go buy another company products... sadly no one cares if that new iPhone cant be fix and they keep buying them and now you can't find a phone that has an easy to swap battery ect.
iPhones honestly aren't that hard to repair, as long as you take your time. Parts are also pretty readily available. It's a lot more of an issue with Apple's computers and their security chip. Not to mention the shit companies like John Deere do to prevent repairs.
 

Sycraft

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Required certs are just a way to build a moat around an industry to entrench certain interests (professional associations and large industry providers, mostly). If you don't want to hire someone with a certification...don't. No need for it to be required by law.
Understand I'm saying what is happening, regardless of if you like it or not. The DoD standards are a thing and they apply to a lot of jobs, government and private sector. That is how these things start.

However there's also an issue with the idea of just not requiring licensure or certification for anything: What happens when someone who is unqualified causes damage and harm? This doesn't just mean to the person who hired them, but to others as well. So consider: Suppose we didn't require any sort of licensing and certification for pilots. If you want to fly, and you can learn how, you can fly. Companies can choose to only hire licensed pilots certified on the aircraft they fly, but they don't have to. Then one day, a plane piloted by an unlicensed pilot crashes in to your house, destroying it and killing some of your family that were home at the time. Who pays for this? The pilot is dead, but it turns out doesn't matter he had no assets anyhow, guy gambled away his money, was deeply in debt, rented, etc nothing to go after. So you want to go after the company. However this company is shady, what with the hiring of unlicensed pilots, it is a small company that only had the one plane as an asset and that was not owned, but rather financed completely. So all it has is a stack of debt, there's no assets to go after, no bond, no insurance, nothing. So you go after the company that hired them, after all this is just a sub-corp probably. Indeed there is a company that has a bunch of these tiny sub-corps that actually is where the business happens. But can you even sue them? It wasn't them that hired this guy, it was the sub contractor, doesn't matter that the sub contractor has nothing, not their problem. Even then if you can, turns out they are the same: They have no assets to speak of, they rent an office, and when profits come in they get paid out quickly as dividends to the owners, so they don't have much cash on hand, not nearly enough to cover their debts. Fine so sue the owners... except you can't. The point of a company is to limit liability from the owners/share holders. They are not financially liable for the company. You can't pierce that since in this case, their actions were not criminal. There was no law saying they had to hire someone who was licensed, no licensing authority requiring bonding and insurance, etc. So while shady, they didn't break the law. Basically you end up SOL, no remuneration for the damage caused.

That is part of the reason for having requirements for professions is they don't just require a minimum level of training, but they also require things like minimum levels of insurance so that when harm happens, it can be paid for. This isn't just a consumer protection thing, it isn't just the guy who hired someone that can be harmed, it can be others. The pilot example is extreme on purpose but it given an example of why licensing and certification are a thing.
 

dgz

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Required certs are just a way to build a moat around an industry to entrench certain interests (professional associations and large industry providers, mostly). If you don't want to hire someone with a certification...don't. No need for it to be required by law.
Do you have any certificates to verify you're qualified to state your opinion on this matter?
 

DWolvin

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I fully back right to repair.

But CompTIA moved to the 'continuing education' model because of the DoD requirement mentioned above. To keep your ability to work on government systems it was decided (better or worse) that there needed to be proof of staying up with the changing times. There are certainly flaws in the system, but back when I was a field service tech I can't count the number of times I went to an office full of old people with dusty certs on the wall that couldn't troubleshoot a broken mouse...

Anything is better than a decade old cert held by someone that knows everything.
 

BB Gun

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Understand I'm saying what is happening, regardless of if you like it or not. The DoD standards are a thing and they apply to a lot of jobs, government and private sector. That is how these things start.
<snip>
That is part of the reason for having requirements for professions is they don't just require a minimum level of training, but they also require things like minimum levels of insurance so that when harm happens, it can be paid for. This isn't just a consumer protection thing, it isn't just the guy who hired someone that can be harmed, it can be others. The pilot example is extreme on purpose but it given an example of why licensing and certification are a thing.
All of that is a reason for licensing to exist, but not a reason to require it.

BB
 

Sycraft

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All of that is a reason for licensing to exist, but not a reason to require it.

BB
But if it isn't required... then we are back to my "what happens when a shady company does something" scenario? Do we just say "Well that sucks, but too bad for you, shady companies get to do what they want and if they cause you harm doing it, too bad"? See when licensing is required, then if a company uses unlicensed people and doesn't meet the licensing requirements for things like insurance, they can be shut down, and even criminally charged. However if it is all optional, then you can't. Then if they do shady shit, well too bad, that's life. Maybe you are ok with that, but think it through.
 

pendragon1

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only an inch of growth?
1" length, 4" girth ;)

Louis makes a good point about CompTia A+ tests about 1min30 in. He mentions Firewire being on the A+ test a few years ago which I noticed then and even before with even older stuff like ISA slots. I remember seeing some of the same old outdated questions on tech in 2005 that were still in the 2015 manuals. It was more a history course on PC tech in some ways.
it was still on the new test i took last year. there was more obsolete shit than current.
 

jiminator

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iPhones honestly aren't that hard to repair, as long as you take your time. Parts are also pretty readily available. It's a lot more of an issue with Apple's computers and their security chip. Not to mention the shit companies like John Deere do to prevent repairs.
you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. older models maybe, EOL models no. schematics are not available at all, common parts have small changes to make similar versions incompatible and so forth. this also applies if you join the apple repair program. only some things you can gain access to.

the "source" for parts is... you can't buy anything new you have to buy junked boards and hope you can get working parts off of them. the list goes on and on and on. watch some of the rossman videos, he covers all this.

apple has complained that they lose money from making repairs. why? they have the most expensive rates compared to anyone else. reason... because they make more selling replacements instead.
 

Mazzspeed

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you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. older models maybe, EOL models no. schematics are not available at all, common parts have small changes to make similar versions incompatible and so forth. this also applies if you join the apple repair program. only some things you can gain access to.

the "source" for parts is... you can't buy anything new you have to buy junked boards and hope you can get working parts off of them. the list goes on and on and on. watch some of the rossman videos, he covers all this.

apple has complained that they lose money from making repairs. why? they have the most expensive rates compared to anyone else. reason... because they make more selling replacements instead.
Furthermore, getting 'genuine Apple parts' as opposed to cheap knockoff's or reconditioned genuine parts is next to impossible unless you pay top dollar to be an Apple certified reseller. Make sure you scratch that Apple logo off reconditioned parts however...While you're at it pry off your Honda badge as soon as you replace that water pump with a non genuine item.
 

pendragon1

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if anyone want to see more of the hearing, louis has a bunch of other vids posted. the "xbox senator" makes some good points...
 

jiminator

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Greatest example, they took two new iphones, swapped the battery in one to use the battery from the other and then had big warning message pop up about using non-authorized repair parts. gg apple
 
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There arent enough new tech improvements every two years to justify having a recert class. Maybeeee every 5. Seems like nothing more than a money grab.
Refusal to repair? Why does comptia exist again...? There has to be an alternative certification program.
 

VoloxitySF

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I've always been kind of meh talking about my comptia certs, but employers have expressed that they liked that I presented my A+ and Server+. Being vendor neutral is kinda neat. Tossing any cert makes no sense to me, regardless of what it is.

Also I must say that as I meet people who are new to the industry one thing I notice among all of them is that the hardware knowledge is becoming non existent. I'm starting to think A+ is starting to gain more relevance for the first time in many years as the industry shifts to more cloud solutions. Esp in small business.
 
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Meeho

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But if it isn't required... then we are back to my "what happens when a shady company does something" scenario? Do we just say "Well that sucks, but too bad for you, shady companies get to do what they want and if they cause you harm doing it, too bad"? See when licensing is required, then if a company uses unlicensed people and doesn't meet the licensing requirements for things like insurance, they can be shut down, and even criminally charged. However if it is all optional, then you can't. Then if they do shady shit, well too bad, that's life. Maybe you are ok with that, but think it through.
How about a radical idea of a free market? Let the market decide not to do business with uninsured companies and better competition to take over? Or just require an insurance certificate that you get for free once you have one, not some BS piece of paper from parasitic companies that certify this and that with their useless courses and unneeded fees?
 
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d3athf1sh

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Required certs are just a way to build a moat around an industry to entrench certain interests (professional associations and large industry providers, mostly). If you don't want to hire someone with a certification...don't. No need for it to be required by law.
BUT... you HAVE to have comptia A+, Net+, and Security+. to even step on to even an entry level government job. so as far as our government is concerned it is law. (unfortunate b.s.)
 

cyklondx

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BUT... you HAVE to have comptia A+, Net+, and Security+. to even step on to even an entry level government job. so as far as our government is concerned it is law. (unfortunate b.s.)
umm no. You don't have to in most cases.


Most jobs prefer actual exp over certs, "certs are nice to have - but actual work experience is more important". In terms of private companies, most of them will tell you - thats great - we don't care.
 

BB Gun

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But if it isn't required... then we are back to my "what happens when a shady company does something" scenario? Do we just say "Well that sucks, but too bad for you, shady companies get to do what they want and if they cause you harm doing it, too bad"? See when licensing is required, then if a company uses unlicensed people and doesn't meet the licensing requirements for things like insurance, they can be shut down, and even criminally charged. However if it is all optional, then you can't. Then if they do shady shit, well too bad, that's life. Maybe you are ok with that, but think it through.
Consumer has a choice to go with a licensed service or unlicensed. Shoddy work can still be sued - just have to be sure you have a good contract before you get it done. We have the internets now, we can do research. "Always make sure your contractor is licensed, bonded and insured" - I do. But that doesn't mean it should be a requirement.

CompTIA, A+, etc etc - all provide some base level of assurance of knowledge, but its no guarantee. And someone without the certs could be awesome. *shrug*

BB
 

THRESHIN

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If they oppose right to repair, I'd like to introduce a new bill: their CEO (or whoever is leading their clown show) must shove every broken device that could have been easily repaired up his or her ass with no lube. My bill will also keep broken electronics out of landfills. It's a win-win really.
 

Dead Parrot

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Considering that the A+ is or at least was when I took the test, largely about troubleshooting and repairing a malfunctioning system, this 'no repair' stance seems counter intuitive.

For those complaining about 'obsolete' material on the tests, in the real world, machines are often kept in service far beyond the manufacturer's EOL date. Last place I worked at had to keep ISA slot PCs to control lab equipment. A PCI card was about $2000 per card and hard to justify since the old ISA card worked fine. It took several years of end of year budgeting to finally replace and retire all the ISA cards.
 

FlawleZ

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Im a supervisor of a very large helpdesk for the DoD. I interview and hire 90% of the staff we have. I couldn't tell you how many people I interviewed with a college degree or higher and didn't know the first thing about troubleshooting or have any technical skills or experience. We require you to be CompTIA certified to meet the 8570 requirements. I can say with confidence those that already have their A+ typically fare much better technically than someone who doesn't.

The CompTIA certifications have largely been the standard and foundation in the IT industry for years. Government and private entities alike both place heavy weight on them and for good reason.
 
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How are kids going to tinker and learn and have aspirations and initiative and desire to go after the cert if they aren't allowed to play in the first place? They went know what they are missing
 

Ranulfo

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Considering that the A+ is or at least was when I took the test, largely about troubleshooting and repairing a malfunctioning system, this 'no repair' stance seems counter intuitive.

For those complaining about 'obsolete' material on the tests, in the real world, machines are often kept in service far beyond the manufacturer's EOL date. Last place I worked at had to keep ISA slot PCs to control lab equipment. A PCI card was about $2000 per card and hard to justify since the old ISA card worked fine. It took several years of end of year budgeting to finally replace and retire all the ISA cards.
The complaint is why spend so much time on obsolete tech and ignore new stuff, especially now since they're (Comptia) apparently requiring recertification every 3 years or so? Of course you're going to come across old tech that you have to maintain but to focus on that stuff for an entry level repair tech course? Malarky and balderdash I say.
 

Meeho

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Im a supervisor of a very large helpdesk for the DoD. I interview and hire 90% of the staff we have. I couldn't tell you how many people I interviewed with a college degree or higher and didn't know the first thing about troubleshooting or have any technical skills or experience. We require you to be CompTIA certified to meet the 8570 requirements. I can say with confidence those that already have their A+ typically fare much better technically than someone who doesn't.

The CompTIA certifications have largely been the standard and foundation in the IT industry for years. Government and private entities alike both place heavy weight on them and for good reason.
What reason? From your post it would seem your interview did what it needed to do and select for the competent ones, certificate or not.
 

Dark12

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I am trying to get out of healthcare and into IT. I plan to start with my Net+ cert.

A lot of people here are saying those certs are useless. How else am I going to prove to potential employers that I know what I am doing? I doubt they are going to pull my application out of a hundred others with IT degrees and say "Hey, let's give this guy a shot."
 
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