Companies Start Implanting Microchips into Workers' Bodies

[Deleted member 93354]

They can also be secured to only release their ID code to authorized readers via an encryption scheme. Or have public and private codes, or business and personal. Or require a PIN in addition to the ID number. It's no more risky IMO than any of the current security methods out there, and probably a damn sight more secure, since the device itself can't be stolen or lost.

Your credit card is tied to a "central server that tracks everything you do". Your cell phone is tied to a "central server that tracks everything you do". Your driver's license is "central server that tracks everything you do". So is your SSN and your Gmail address.

There's a difference between RFID and smart chip. I'm not trying to be an ass, but do you understand how RFID even works?

 

[Deleted member 83233]

They can also be secured to only release their ID code to authorized readers via an encryption scheme. Or have public and private codes, or business and personal. Or require a PIN in addition to the ID number. It's no more risky IMO than any of the current security methods out there, and probably a damn sight more secure, since the device itself can't be stolen or lost.

Your credit card is tied to a "central server that tracks everything you do". Your cell phone is tied to a "central server that tracks everything you do". Your driver's license is "central server that tracks everything you do". So is your SSN and your Gmail address.

That's true, but they are SEPARATE and not embedded in your body. You may not think that's much of a difference, but there are many who do. A big difference. Also, with all these items separate, and discrete physical objects, one can pick and choose the ones they want to own in the first place, which ones they want to bring with them, which one stores which info. It's a CHOICE. You start cramming more and more things into one device (which is what many of us fear will happen the more this gets accepted) the less choice you have in how and where this can be accessed and by whom.

I agree that yes, it starts as a simple ID that isn't tied to much. People get used to it, and it becomes a wider practice. Now they have "improved" ones that do actually pack a bit of local information, and are tied to more and more server based data, and the company you work for happens to have a deal with another company that provides credit. Then it starts turning into a multi-purpose device, and you're stuck with it if you want to exist in "normal" society. With a credit card, you can leave it at home if you want. You can lock it in a safe if you want. You can be very specific about which company and which terms you've agreed to, and only use that card where you want. Same with your phone. Same with a company badge. If I don't want to bring my badge to a personal function, it's probably best left at home. I can pick and choose these things as I see fit. They aren't all tied to a device that's stuck in my hand.

Once again, I'm not saying these would be misused, but come on... humans... I'm not saying they'll ever evolve beyond just their intended simple use, but come on... corporations... Technology is exciting. At the same time I'm bashing certain potential for this device, I long for many other things out of a William Gibson book. However, giving the company I work for access to the inside of my body really isn't one of them.

 

[Compwiz]

um. why not a ring instead of something they have to implant in your body?

 

[Deleted member 83233]

um. why not a ring instead of something they have to implant in your body?

Not sure I'd want a ring, just for the aesthetic, but yes I agree, something wearable, or attachable is already way better than an implant. You can still choose to leave it off if you want.

 

[Bandalo]

There's a difference between RFID and smart chip. I'm not trying to be an ass, but do you understand how RFID even works?

I do have a pretty good handle on the specifics of existing RFID tech. We (and by "we" I mean most people in this thread) are probably not using the terms completely correctly. RFID is a specific technology that doesn't have a lot of the features we've been discussing. Most versions can't be read at a distance, some can be read through shielding, some can't. There's no such thing as a universal RFID database that all advertisers, companies and governments have access to in order to track your every movement if you implant a chip in your hand.

Not even the more secure versions that exist or have been proposed would cover a lot of the things I mentioned. (like using the tag as an "Android Pay" sort of device). It's not outside the realm of the possible, but it's not currently available. I'd imagine with funding something like what I mentioned could be fielded within a year or less. Whether or not it SHOULD be fielded is still clearly up for debate!

That's true, but they are SEPARATE and not embedded in your body. You may not think that's much of a difference, but there are many who do. A big difference. Also, with all these items separate, and discrete physical objects, one can pick and choose the ones they want to own in the first place, which ones they want to bring with them, which one stores which info. It's a CHOICE. You start cramming more and more things into one device (which is what many of us fear will happen the more this gets accepted) the less choice you have in how and where this can be accessed and by whom.

I agree that yes, it starts as a simple ID that isn't tied to much. People get used to it, and it becomes a wider practice. Now they have "improved" ones that do actually pack a bit of local information, and are tied to more and more server based data, and the company you work for happens to have a deal with another company that provides credit. Then it starts turning into a multi-purpose device, and you're stuck with it if you want to exist in "normal" society. With a credit card, you can leave it at home if you want. You can lock it in a safe if you want. You can be very specific about which company and which terms you've agreed to, and only use that card where you want. Same with your phone. Same with a company badge. If I don't want to bring my badge to a personal function, it's probably best left at home. I can pick and choose these things as I see fit. They aren't all tied to a device that's stuck in my hand.

Once again, I'm not saying these would be misused, but come on... humans... I'm not saying they'll ever evolve beyond just their intended simple use, but come on... corporations... Technology is exciting. At the same time I'm bashing certain potential for this device, I long for many other things out of a William Gibson book. However, giving the company I work for access to the inside of my body really isn't one of them.

There's a definite risk with cramming more and more tech and functions into a cell phone. I can use my cell phone to unlock my car, open my garage door, open my front door, unlock my PC, etc, etc But SHOULD you? I think it depends on the person. Some people want the convenience of having everything in one place. Some people worry about the risks of losing your phone and not having access to anything. This type of tech at least reduces that particular risk IMO. One reason I personally don't want EVERYTHING on my phone is that fear.

You can't choose to leave this at home if you'd had one "installed". But, then again, you also can't lose it, have it stolen, forget it, etc. You're trading a bit of personal choice for a convenience. I look at it like my military ID. I technically have to carry it everywhere. I need it to log into my PC. I need it to access the base at all. I use it to access certain areas of certain buildings. People leave them in their work computers all the time, and then they can't get back on base the next morning. People lose them and can't get on the network to work for days or longer. People lock themselves out of their building. Etc, etc. If at the start of my military career, they said you can have a card or this chip, I'd take the chip. They can always be removed when you retire (or they just convert it to a "retired" military ID).

Here's a question though...how would this be different from biometrics? What if you could get in and out of the doors at work with an iris scan? Or a thumbprint? I'd see that becoming a standard one day as well.

 

[Malcador]

I can think of a few places they can go and stick their implants..

"Umm...see, Johnson over there is willing to get the implant, so unfortunately it is with great regret I must inform you that you must part ways with the company."

 

[Deleted member 93354]

I do have a pretty good handle on the specifics of existing RFID tech. We (and by "we" I mean most people in this thread) are probably not using the terms completely correctly. RFID is a specific technology that doesn't have a lot of the features we've been discussing. Most versions can't be read at a distance, some can be read through shielding, some can't. There's no such thing as a universal RFID database that all advertisers, companies and governments have access to in order to track your every movement if you implant a chip in your hand.

Not even the more secure versions that exist or have been proposed would cover a lot of the things I mentioned. (like using the tag as an "Android Pay" sort of device). It's not outside the realm of the possible, but it's not currently available. I'd imagine with funding something like what I mentioned could be fielded within a year or less. Whether or not it SHOULD be fielded is still clearly up for debate!

I agree. The article states RFID tech, which is completely passive in nature.

This is background info for those who don't know EXACTLY how RFID works.

Basically the RFID "Tag" has a series of crystals inside of it. Each as a specific length designed to respond to certain "frequencies"

So an emmiter sends out a broad band frequency and the crystals resonate. So let's say you have crystals that resonate at 100KHz, 120KHz, and 125KHz.

The receiver analyzes the signal that comes back looking for singal peaks. It runs a fast fuorier transform on the resulting signal and sees what frequences are responding

100 kHz yes
105 kHz no
110 kHz no
115 kHz no
120 kHz yes
125 kHz yes

you get a 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1

That's binary
See how this forms a number?

It's completely PASSIVE and not active algorithm/math based like smart chips/cards.

Now it is possible to read these cards from a couple feet away. But that would require a powerful transmitter and strong receiver. And most security companies don't want to do this as it weakens the security. It makes it easier for nearby 3rd parties to steal the numbers, as well creates interference issues when other cards are around. But in practice you can create a reader about the size of a credit card that will work from 6 inches away....lets say in a bill fold, or under a table at a store or restaurant.

Since this is such common tech, it is more than possible for every place to install RFID readers and steal those numbers. As these serial numbers are so long, it's easy to create one for each person on earth as use it as a serial number. It was only a few years ago they were test tracking your movement inside stores based on your wifi MAC ID on your phone. There was also a security notice about RFID entrance systems that were connected via Wi-fi and how they were hackable.

So yeah, ummmm, no implant for me thanks. The potential for abuse is too great. Sure someone might not steal my car (id) with the keys (RFID) inside, but I'm not dumb enough to potentially let that happen.

 

[SomeoneElse]

And you've brought absolutely nothing to the conversation except more paranoia. Who's this big bad "they"? "They" already have everything they want from you or already have the means to get it. There is only one difference between this article and the fob I have on my key chain right now. It's in my hand. Period. Besides that, 100% the exact same. I want you to list to me how this RFID door chip is any different then the RFID door chip that I have to take everywhere is already. I'll wait. Then I want you to describe the huge RFID network that my employer has blanketed this nation with about every 16 inches or so, including in my house. Hell, I want to see a picture of that, because I swear I can't see it, maybe "They" are using super future tech invisible paint!

Like I said I'm fine with drawing a line, but this isn't the line. This isn't some future tech tracking system from a sci fi movie. This is a RFID door chip. Stop playing the "They" card, this is the exact same as crap that's already out there for years and years, some just said hey, I can't forget it if it's in my hand.

Welcome to modern life. If you are so afraid of "being a slave to the system" or "Them" then I suggest you get offline (where you are giving away WAY MORE info in one forum post then that RFID chip ever will) and go live in some crappy hole in Africa. I can tell just from one post what your PC is, that you are a gamer, and clicking one button I can see all your post history and put together a pretty compelling description of you. Way more info then I can get from "Bobby opened the same 5 doors at work that he does everyday, but we already knew that because he used his key card to do the same thing for the last 12 years"

Stop trying to fear monger this, it's a simple rfid chip and it's voluntary.

Plus, any smart company uses 2FA anyways, so no, no one is going to steal your hand to break in somewhere. If for some reason the "They" that you work for doesn't provide this, I have a box full of RFID enabled pin pads I can sell you on Ebay, I even offer a damn good price to them compared to the normal Ebay sales.

Be careful though, if you log into Ebay "They" may know that you like to buy things, with money! OH NOES!!

You've completely missed the point. "They" is people in places of power (employers, government). Its not paranoia its logic once a precedent is set there is no going back. If you are willing to let someone else control your life that's your prerogative but its not mine..... have a chip that will track where you are at all time. I very much know how RFID works they use them in the trucking industry right now.......i'm not a freakin truck so you don't need to know where i am.....Your employer "THEY" can say "why where you in the bathroom 9for 25 mins taking a dump.....you are fired". People already get fired for shit they say on facebook because the employer monitors that.....sometime people should get fired but just because you say something ( I.E. political stance since thats a HOT topic these days) they get fired. Same idea just now if they look at where you have been based of where the RFID has been then they can question what you do in your free time then that is loss of freedom. Do you get it? Its not paranoia. No one cares about the possibility of getting your hand ripped off to gain access that is ridiculous to even suggest.
And No a microchip can store everything about you and that the whole point to this whole thread.....when they program ALL of your info on that chip i can be stolen by someone with an RFID reader. Crimilnals already steal people info from credit cards already just by simply walking by. THIS IS THE FIRST STEP. Thats the point. The next point is all the "info" that you can read about me is voluntarily entered on this site, unless you hacked something which is illegal. The chip may not be voluntary in the next step. Get it?

 

[Hisshadow]

Revelation 13:16 "And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of its name.…"

 

[DrLobotomy]

Just because you are not paranoid, doesn't meant they are not after you.

666 Bitches