Commodore Rocks...Because I Said So

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I stopped reading PR a long time ago. It's nothing more than spin to show how a product is in one single way better than something else. Personally, it's nothing but a bunch of bullshit to me. You can make just about anything look good under the right conditions. However, those press releases are supposed to be backed up by something and this one isn't. That's where the problem comes in. It has to be backed up by something.

I remember the days when there weren't any review sites out there. The only thing you could do is go by PR and "mini-reviews" in magazines or ads that in many cases were nothing more than ads for the products? Those who remember the old Computer Shopper magazines which were nothing short of a friggin' encyclopedia in thickness know this.

Kyle, like others, chose to take on the job of making sure we don't have to "rely" on that anymore. They wade through the bullshit to get to what is really there once you remove the pretty packaging.

I don't care how he goes about wading through the bullshit. Everyone has their own way and his is direct and to the point. I'm generally a mild person but if you try to jerk me around or question my interest in information you're going to be in for a shitstorm.

He owes neither Commodore Computers nor any of their PR people anything. However, they have to convince him to publish their PR on his site which he pays for. He pays for the hardware, the bandwidth and all the people that keep it running. These are the facts, accept it or not.

Quit trying to change the discussion by saying Kyle was an asshole. It doesn't matter if he's an asshole. Hell, I'm an asshole and proud of it as I'm sure Kyle is also. Just deal with the actual meat of the argument, Commodore Computer's PR guy would not supply the information Kyle requested. If they had the documents to prove their claims, the PR guy would have turned them over immediately. The attitude the PR guy assumed is nothing more than comedy relief for the saga. It's nothing more than the sidekick that does nothing but state witty one liners every once in a while.

 
I read the article, then I read this thread in full, and then I went back and read the article again. I just don't get where the confusion comes from.

It seems many people (although in the minority) have the opinion that Kyle was somehow unjustified in his responses. Are people so negative they automatically presume a hostile tone because a message is short?

Maybe it's the fact that I ran a busy site that I can relate to Kyle's position here. Some people just don't realize the amount of time it takes to respond to the massive amount of email received daily. Just try giving detailed responses and see how far you get.

In my opinion, "curt" responses are entirely justified, if not required. There's nothing rude about it and expecting the red carpet treatment simply for carrying a reincarnation of the Commodore brand name shows a total lack of respect for Kyle's time.

The truth be told, either Dave was having a bad day or he simply shouldn't be in PR -- he's way too emotional for the job.

Here's hoping Commodore supplies better products than they do PR reps...
 
As I was reading it...

I see someone looking for a fight.
I see someone defensive, realizing the other has some already preconceived notions and he's not sure how to handle it and what your motives are.

Now this here....

"Can’t back up your claims and now I am the bitter, harping guy that is picking on you? I would suggest if you are going to send your tripe to my mailbox that you can back up what you say. Now, that your panties are out of the wad, how bout we get back to specs and facts instead of your whining?

Have the engineer send me the test data that backs up your 30% claim with system specifications and BIOS settings. Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce. I would love to review it."

Maybe you deal with your family or co-workers this way or maybe some strangers on the street, but I would have blown you off right there as an egotistical disrespectful prick. Now I only say that based on the text, that is how text can be misconstrued, because I have no idea how you really are. You seemed to address him like you have some entitlement. As if you would talk to Intel, AMD, Nvidia PR like that, LOL. You would be out of a job or just reviewing logitech mice or something, they would just black ball you.

Their is a level of civility and respect he deserved, instead of disrespecting him (his tripe and whining) or the company("leading company" /sarcasm *snicker snicker*), which you seemed like you had your cross hairs on from the earliest email exchange, as would have been obvious to Dave as well. That sounded like some forum post by a 16 year old, seriously.

I think you put him on the defensive from your very first emails, as not someone who wanted to know the answer to the questions being asked, but someone who was asking questions with the express purpose to try and find fault. I think Dave saw that from the get go, that you were on some kind of mission, his failure was in trying to change someones mind who already made it up.

I don't stop at every pizza place I pass by on the street and confront the cashier on where is this "award winning", "#1", "best", "new york style" pizza, and what makes it best?
I would get no pleasure out of it nor would I see it as some high service to pizza goers everywhere for me to confront them.

The 30% claim is easily possible, not as you worded it but as he said "In some cases we have beat major gaming systems by 30% in 3DMark tests."
There was a case or two, so what, shouldn't be hard to believe. He was just using certain experiences to win you over, he misstepped in his enthusaism, but obviously that was not the norm nor did he imply anything like that.

Everyone holds onto those high points of success and uses them when sharing an individuals/companies exploits. Look at any advertising or resume...do you think what people say about themselves is 100% true a 100% of the time or just high points. I have no doubt they beat a gaming PC by 30% in 3dmark, hell a driver could do that, a vid card and cpu combo could do that. Sounded like somebody who was more tech saavy than the other guy and he went a bit overboard into school yard bullying.

Atleast you gave what appears like a fairly accurate account, even though their is some missing. You could have made it sound more one sided.
Oh and if your still waiting for a call, as if you are entitled to one and that they should try to win you over, I think it could be a while. ;)

I would have blown you off much much earlier in the email exchange, it was a losing battle from the beginning, regardless if they had a great product or not. Looks like you got the last words though, and you won. ;)
 
As I was reading it...

I see someone looking for a fight.
I see someone defensive, realizing the other has some already preconceived notions and he's not sure how to handle it and what your motives are.

Now this here....

"Can’t back up your claims and now I am the bitter, harping guy that is picking on you? I would suggest if you are going to send your tripe to my mailbox that you can back up what you say. Now, that your panties are out of the wad, how bout we get back to specs and facts instead of your whining?

Have the engineer send me the test data that backs up your 30% claim with system specifications and BIOS settings. Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce. I would love to review it."

Maybe you deal with your family or co-workers this way or maybe some strangers on the street, but I would have blown you off right there as an egotistical disrespectful prick. Now I only say that based on the text, that is how text can be misconstrued, because I have no idea how you really are. You seemed to address him like you have some entitlement. As if you would talk to Intel, AMD, Nvidia PR like that, LOL. You would be out of a job or just reviewing logitech mice or something, they would just black ball you.

Their is a level of civility and respect he deserved, instead of disrespecting him (his tripe and whining) or the company("leading company" /sarcasm *snicker snicker*), which you seemed like you had your cross hairs on from the earliest email exchange, as would have been obvious to Dave as well. That sounded like some forum post by a 16 year old, seriously.

I think you put him on the defensive from your very first emails, as not someone who wanted to know the answer to the questions being asked, but someone who was asking questions with the express purpose to try and find fault. I think Dave saw that from the get go, that you were on some kind of mission, his failure was in trying to change someones mind who already made it up.

I don't stop at every pizza place I pass by on the street and confront the cashier on where is this "award winning", "#1", "best", "new york style" pizza, and what makes it best?
I would get no pleasure out of it nor would I see it as some high service to pizza goers everywhere for me to confront them.

The 30% claim is easily possible, not as you worded it but as he said "In some cases we have beat major gaming systems by 30% in 3DMark tests."
There was a case or two, so what, shouldn't be hard to believe. He was just using certain experiences to win you over, he misstepped in his enthusaism, but obviously that was not the norm nor did he imply anything like that.

Everyone holds onto those high points of success and uses them when sharing an individuals/companies exploits. Look at any advertising or resume...do you think what people say about themselves is 100% true a 100% of the time or just high points. I have no doubt they beat a gaming PC by 30% in 3dmark, hell a driver could do that, a vid card and cpu combo could do that. Sounded like somebody who was more tech saavy than the other guy and he went a bit overboard into school yard bullying.

Atleast you gave what appears like a fairly accurate account, even though their is some missing. You could have made it sound more one sided.
Oh and if your still waiting for a call, as if you are entitled to one and that they should try to win you over, I think it could be a while. ;)

I would have blown you off much much earlier in the email exchange, it was a losing battle from the beginning, regardless if they had a great product or not. Looks like you got the last words though, and you won. ;)

Say what you will, but the fact is that I never called him a name or questioned his character. I simply asked him for the facts to back up the claims and he did not produce even on his own deadline.
 
As I was reading it...

I don't stop at every pizza place I pass by on the street and confront the cashier on where is this "award winning", "#1", "best", "new york style" pizza, and what makes it best?
I would get no pleasure out of it nor would I see it as some high service to pizza goers everywhere for me to confront them.

I would have blown you off much much earlier in the email exchange, it was a losing battle from the beginning, regardless if they had a great product or not. Looks like you got the last words though, and you won. ;)

You fail to see the fault of your analogy. If that pizza place wanted me to put them on my webpage somewhere, you darn right I wanna taste their "award winning" pizza.

As far as this email exchage and article goes... It seems that a pretty visible line is being drawn between those that excel at reading comprension and those that don't, Age group is of course one forgivable reason depending on the case. But there is a very big difference between reading something and comprehending what you just read. Kyle writes in a sort of way to answer any question that might come up about the statement he's going to make. It happens to the best of us sometimes, and as far as my personal thoughts on how he handled the situation...

"Never argue with a fool because from far away it's hard to see who is who." You really need to understand what went on and it might require one to re-read some parts and well, who has the time? So I can under stanf that viewpoint because well the internet is massive and there's more stuff to do then 1 webpage.
 
I wonder how many people who are offended by the perceived rudeness of Kyle's response have to deal with PR people or vendors on a daily basis?

These people come to you asking for something. Either to buy something or to buy into something. The only way to cut through the BS is to ask direct, pointed questions. To hell with political correctness.

In no way was this rude.
 
"Say what you will, but the fact is that I never called him a name or questioned his character. I simply asked him for the facts to back up the claims and he did not produce even on his own deadline."

I respect your reply, I don't doubt what you are saying there.
Infact, while I am at it, I respect your work quite a bit on the site. I thought it was only appropriate to take the moment to say that as well.
I haven't met anyone yet that I agree with 100% of the time on everything, so no biggie.
 
Saying he's whining or telling him to get his panties out of a wad isn't questioning his character and is simply asking for facts? I don't understand how you can act this innocent like you had nothing to do with the escalation (or degeneration) into name calling. Face it, the degeneration of the whole fiasco was as much your doing as the other guy's. He offered to put you in touch with a tech/engineer and give you a review system early on after not being able to give you what you wanted in the form you wanted, at which point you very curtly said 'just give me what I asked for.' Of course the guy is going to start getting irritated. The guy tried to call you after getting irritated asking you to call him and your reply is to send an email and tell him to get his panties out of a wad, and then you call him unprofessional? Ok, like I said it's your site, but if you wanted debate on the subject instead of people coming in here to get on their knees and bowing down to your ability to stick it to the man, you should at the least try and look at it objectively. You acted in a juvenile and unprofessional manner, and unfortunately the guy got worked up and replied in kind instead of telling you to FO. The more you doggedly defend your position and claim that you had nothing to do with creating this fiasco, the more I feel sorry for the guy and Commodore.

It seems like in the past year, you had taken the approach of letting companies in situations like this make up for it through customer support or explanation, but when this guy offered to put you in touch with an engineer and then send you a review system, you basically pissed in his wheaties.

I only told him to get his panties out of a wad after he started whining. He was acting like a school girl and I treated him like one.

I would suggest you read the final mail. Here let me quote it for you.

I will be gone from Friday through Monday for the long weekend. When I get back I can offer to take care of you with the deal I offered in the last email. Your big issue originally was me proving the first statement. I am offering to do that. If not I look forward to reading your article. I’m sure based on your recent comments it will not contain any personal attacks and will treat Commodore fairly as you claim you have been trying to do along.

-David

We asked for a reply from his engineer. He promised answered on Tuesday...a week ago. He missed his own self-imposed deadline by a week and never did exactly what he committed to do in his last mail. Now how is that pissing in his wheaties?

As for what we have done in the last year, I have not had anyone lie to my face about performance metrics...
 
I am just looking at this from a generic consumer perspective.

1.) The claims from "C" are silly at best.

2.) The response from the PR guy is stupid at best.

3.) I don't care what Kyle said ... rude or otherwise ... if this company expects to sell gaming systems they HAVE to treat every contact and every customer like their own personal savior....they didn't.

Now for a bit of advice to all you Kyle bashers, your voice would be more powerful to express your discontent by keeping your mouths SHUT as anyone with half a brain knows that "Any press is good press" haha!
 
You fail to see the fault of your analogy. If that pizza place wanted me to put them on my webpage somewhere, you darn right I wanna taste their "award winning" pizza.

...And you fail to see the fault in your fault finding. :p

I dunno, what if I was a food critic and I was sent a Pizza advertisement in the newspaper, hand out, under my windshield wiper. Would it then communicate better that I would see no reason to go confront them, for what every PR and advertising agency does worldwide. The sad truth is someone can use the term "award winning" if all they won was some 8th grade school pizza taste test. If you are going to take on every PR or advertising campaign that stretches the truth or embellishes, well then good luck because every single one I ever seen does, our society stopped buying plain honest truth, they need more flash. But you better take it up with the state or federal government if you want to do something about it, because confronting the cashier will only likely make you feel better, but accomplish nothing. There's ways to handle things and ways not to, which is more to the point really.
 
...And you fail to see the fault in your fault finding. :p

I dunno, what if I was a food critic and I was sent a Pizza advertisement in the newspaper, hand out, under my windshield wiper. Would it then communicate better that I would see no reason to go confront them, for what every PR and advertising agency does worldwide. The sad truth is someone can use the term "award winning" if all they won was some 8th grade school pizza taste test. If you are going to take on every PR or advertising campaign that stretches the truth or embellishes, well then good luck because every single one I ever seen does, our society stopped buying plain honest truth, they need more flash. But you better take it up with the state or federal government if you want to do something about it, because confronting the cashier will only likely make you feel better, but accomplish nothing. There's ways to handle things and ways not to, which is more to the point really.



:rolleyes:

you're failing to comprehend the entire scenario and are instead focusing on the 'war of words' which you feel was inappropriate because it wasn't politically correct.

the real conversation was over after David's very first response. and that response was a joke, which made the entire sales pitch A JOKE.

LAUGH!
 
I think some people fail to realize that the higher end enthusiast companies know who Kyle is and what he stands for. I don't think you saw PCP&C whining like a little bitch after Kyle gave them a non-favorable review. If they did...oh boy, that would be a field day.

They (PC Power and Cooling/OCZ management not forums reps) constituted almost all the polite emails I recieved about that review.
 
I keep thinking of that interview in "Jersey Girl" where the bigwigs just brought Ollie in on a bet to see if he was the same Oliver Trinke who pulled the "Fresh Prince". And then when he asks if they would let him work there, they just burst out laughing and shut him down.

Except in this case, Dave T. just pulled the "Commodore." Hope you haven't got any kids to feed, Dave :(
 
"you're failing to comprehend the entire scenario and are instead focusing on the 'war of words' which you feel was inappropriate because it wasn't politically correct."

Thanks for telling me what you think my perspective is, as to my previous response you quoted , it was in reference to playing around with an analogy which was mostly in fun.

Ofcourse people ignore the 20 literal points and focus on my use of a figure of speech. As to political correctness, I have such a hatred and distaste for it that you obviously have no idea what you speak of. Your crystal ball into the workings of my mind must need some polishing.

As to your second sentence, I have no idea what you just said or what that means, but either way, I have no desire to really play around, this is going no where fast. I said all I wanted to say on the subject in my first post. Thx for your review. :)
 
Yea, you are too confused to understand. your analogies will never work. Asking to post somethign on my website is nothing like any analogy you can come up with. That is the single most important point. Party A asked Party B to post something on B's website. Yes, you check the validity of the content! We are not talking about advetrisents under a windshield wiper. If it was then everything you said is correct about this situation, but it's not.
 
The fact that Dave made such ridiculous claims without having a response prepared for Kyle's question, shows that Dave doesn't know this market, and shouldn't be hired as a PR guy by any company.


How much do you want to bet that he is an ex-Apple PR rep?
 
I thought they were doing a great job of making themselves look foolish without having to resort to teenage internet angsty "panties in a wad" comment. I wouldn't blame the guy if he thought he was corresponding with a teenager.
 
bah no edit...just wanted to say, I've always enjoyed Kyle's posts, reviews, and comments in their biting manner because they feel like they're coming from someone who truly knows what they're talking about, and are laying serious verbal smack down on the subject as a true professional. This just didn't come off that way...as the badass making the joker pay for his stupidity, but rather as a mocking kid getting in an internet troll fight.

(and yes, I've been in my share of moronic troll fights too)
 
"Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce."

I think this is what set the PR guy off. It would seem kind of an insult to me but in no way does that that mean the PR guy should get unprofessional. Kyle is the PR guy's customer and customers can come off rude sometimes and next week the same customer is the nicest person. Kyle should not have been treated the way he was after just one sentence, even if he was calling BS in the nicest way.

The 2nd thing that set the PR guy off is that Kyle was trying to get information to aid in reviewing their product. PR guy had no idea what this was and mistook it for nagging and attacking the the press release. He expected Kyle to just post some blurb on his website, not actually be interested in what he was selling and asking questions.

Seriously though, if you think Kyle was being rude go work retail for a week and you'll have a slightly different perspective.
 
"Should not be a hard thing for a leading company in the PC space to produce."

I think this is what set the PR guy off. It would seem kind of an insult to me but in no way does that that mean the PR guy should get unprofessional. Kyle is the PR guy's customer and customers can come off rude sometimes and next week the same customer is the nicest person. Kyle should not have been treated the way he was after just one sentence, even if he was calling BS in the nicest way.

The 2nd thing that set the PR guy off is that Kyle was trying to get information to aid in reviewing their product. PR guy had no idea what this was and mistook it for nagging and attacking the the press release. He expected Kyle to just post some blurb on his website, not actually be interested in what he was selling and asking questions.

Seriously though, if you think Kyle was being rude go work retail for a week and you'll have a slightly different perspective.

I think those quotes were perfectly fine and justifiably tough. I just cringed when I read the tired old junior high esque "get your panties in a wad" comment.

Make them look like fools without making yourself look like one in the process...that's what I've come to expect here.
 
There's a few times in life when you have about enough time to spit out two sentences that will make your audience, be it a person or a group of people, decide to continue listening to what you have to say, and take you seriously.

When your first sentence is "Are you serious?", you've already made your audience deaf. And I know that because as soon as Dave posed that question, he already lost his credibility in my eyes. That response was no less unprofessional than Kyle mentioning panties and whining. And all the people booing at Kyle's response fail to mention that at all for the most part. They also forget that the PR rep is representing the company. Knowing this, it would be wise to act accordingly. If you think it's going to give the company a bad name, it's probably a good idea not to do it.

It doesn't matter at that point if anything you have to say is important, life-saving, or otherwise. OF COURSE THEY ARE SERIOUS! They responded, didn't they? Once you have your audience's attention, treat them as if they ARE serious, because chances are, they are. They're listening. Now you just need to get them to listen intently.

I've taken one public speaking/speech class in college and from what I've read by Dave's emails, it wouldn't hurt him to take it. If he has taken one, then it wouldn't kill him to pass this time. Hell I haven't even graduated and I can present myself better than that. Not by much, maybe, but I know I wouldn't have at least made THAT mistake. Question dodging is for politicians, not PR reps.

BUT HERE IS WHAT PEOPLE HAVE OVERLOOKED THE MOST:

Dave does not show any indicator that he knows DICK about his target audience, whether it's Kyle or the hardware enthusiast community. He pulls numbers out of his ass. Do you know who else pulls that tactic? Retail sales associates. People who are lucky they even make their quotas let alone move up in the world. As a person who works retail, I can say I see it at work five to six days a week. The type of people who do what Dave did are people who are generally inexperienced with sales work. They're amateurs. Dave is a fucking amateur. I'm sorry, but the question he pulled is a big no no. Kyle has no reason or obligation to treat someone in a professional manner if THEY cannot treat him in that same way, and if nothing else, answer his damn questions at the very LEAST. Even a "Good question, I don't have the answer to that, but I know someone who does. Let me get back to you on that" would have sufficed. It's honest, and it's still making an offer to get the question answered. More importantly it's NOT INSULTING to the target audience. Dave may as well have stated something like "omfgz!!@#@#% YOU RESPONDEDED!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111OENONE w00t w00t plz buy my product kthx bai!" while he was at it. More importantly, he failed to deliver on his own self imposed deadline. Does it honestly take a week to talk to one technician and write it all down or have him type it up in an email and copy Kyle on it?

We take our hardware seriously. We're not like the mom and pop people who go to Best Buy, buy something that fits their budget rather than their needs, and put all their faith in Geek Squad or the neighbor boy down the street to fix their problems. But Dave is treating us this way with that pathetic thing you call a sales pitch.

We build, fix, and maintain our own machines. We read, read, and read until our eyes bleed. We don't stop at CNet reviews and call it "research". Some of us will read about the same damn processor, card, board, etc. being reviewed/evaluated at a number of sites in the double, if not triple digits. Why? Because we want to know. We take our money seriously, we take our hardware seriously, and we sit and bicker and fight and SUPPORT OUR ARGUMENTS with links and things we've found in our personal experiences over this shit! So why are we arguing over who was in the wrong, rather than discuss why the hell Kyle is even wasting his time with an obvious ground floor retail dropout? (Now THAT is namecalling.)

Dave is essentially calling us a bunch of fucking idiots by his behavior and his words. Numbers out of his ass? Failure to back it up? "Trust me" in more or less words? Kyle is supposed to remain professional in the face of this? Sure, if by professional you mean batting a thousand on Dave's face with a trusty Louisville Slugger.

All of you as members of this community should feel offended by Dave, and possibly even by Commodore for letting this nimrod represent them as a company. Why? Because if Dave is an extension of the company, then the company must then feel that the hardware community, no matter how small a niche it may be, is comprised of idiots. Would you honestly buy a product from someone that called you an idiot? No, you more than likely wouldn't. Some of you have probably walked out of car dealerships because of being treated that way. And some of you have vowed to never again purchase products from certain companies because of how their customer service treated you. Why should this be any different?
 
Seriously though, if you think Kyle was being rude go work retail for a week and you'll have a slightly different perspective.

QFT. However, I would say 2 years. You don't get the full taste of rudeness till you've let it sink in and fester for a little bit, and you've just slowly started to become bitter and full of hate for people in general that you don't personally know.

I personally recommend working returns if you want the full brunt of rudeness in a short timespan. Trust me. You'll be ready to shoot the next person that comes through the door and within ten feet of your register.
 
QFT. However, I would say 2 years. You don't get the full taste of rudeness till you've let it sink in and fester for a little bit, and you've just slowly started to become bitter and full of hate for people in general that you don't personally know.

I personally recommend working returns if you want the full brunt of rudeness in a short timespan. Trust me. You'll be ready to shoot the next person that comes through the door and within ten feet of your register.

I've had somewhat more than 2 years experience in retail/computers. If some people think panties in a wad is insulting those people wouldn't last more than week in retail and I would not ask them to survive 2 years cuz that would just be mean.

If you ever need a reason to question the existence of the human race... work retail.
 
Amazing how quickly this thread has grown since it's inception.

After reading through it and feeling that both Kyle had valid points on the method the system was pitched with unsubstantiated claims, and the other valid points about "panties" and what not possibly a little (just a tinny bit, more of a "thong") uncalled for. I have only one thing to add to this thread........

IBTL :D
 
I think that Kyle definitely knows what he's talking about, and the PR guy probably doesn't. However, both are professionals (or claim to be) who acted unprofessionally.

I hope Kyle continues to scrutinize all the press releases he is asked to post as much as he did this one.

Cheers!
 
It's articles like this that make me appreciate [H] product reviews or in this case lack of product reviews.

Commodore should hire me as a PR rep, please pay me lots of money. I can make-up even more impressive information than their current guys. Did you know one C64 can replace 10 supercomputers and end hunger in third world countries while using 1 watt of electricity a year? Let me know if you want to review a unit, I'll send you one in 2050 when our other press contacts return them from their reviews. In the mean time I will need a half-million dollar deposit and a 1 way ticket to the Congo.:D


ROFL


Way to go Kyle, I bet you just got Dave with Traction PR fired.

I can only hope ! :)

that was the end of the conversation, really. the rest was just entertainment for us, and i do appreciate it.

:D


Same here,after that line form Dave,it was fair game !

I'm sorry, but I think Dave gave Kyle the right to say whatever the hell he felt like saying once he asked if he was serious. PR guys don't do that, unless the whole point is to get bad PR.

Too true :D
 
Whilst I.... ~snip~.... And please let this not be a witch hunt. No more "He said, she said" articles please.. Keep it behind [H] doors if that stuff does happen. Id rather keep seeing the [H] site for what it does best, and not trashing startups like Commodore .


'Whilst I' ?? :D Are you for fucking real ??


Id rather keep seeing the [H] site for what it does best, and not trashing startups like Commodore .


The only one that went out of thier way to 'trash' the Commodore name was Dave. :p
 
I totally agree with desultadox's post...he did leave out arrogant, however...

And I have made up my own mind...you, Kyle Bennett, are apparently drunk with the power of your position at [H], and most definitely out-of-line.

Another nail in the coffin of my declining respect for [H]...

Good luck as you go down in flames...

Are you serious?
 
It's a shame some people are focusing on how the PR guy was treated rather than the reason for it.It seems obvious this is just another example of a company simply using a name from the past to sell a product that can't live up to hype.Would you rather depend on reviews by magazines and websites where the builders know in advance that their system will be evaluated,so they can give it the kind of attention the average customer never gets,and the reviewers treat them with kids gloves because they don't want to lose advertising dollars?Does anyone really think this company has any real connection to the Commodore everyone remembers fondly from days past? "A leading company in PC's"?More like a leading company in BS.
 
Very Long time reader but first time poster. I typically hate getting in the middle of a flame-fest like this one but I feel compelled to do so.

I love HardOCP. I visit it daily, hell 5-6 times daily. But its articles like this that make me not want to ever visit again.

Yes, it's bad that EVERY LAST press release that EVERY COMPANY ON THE PLANET HAS EVER RELEASED has some kind of misleading information that attempts to dupe the common reader. Sadly, it isn't anything new.

But of course, that isn't what Kyle's article was about is it? It isn't about Kyle trying to get to the bottom of a huge conspiracy masterminded by Commodore! It's about Kyle acting like a 12 year old lashing out at someone.

Dave said something that Kyle took offense to. But instead of acting like a civilized adult and calmly difusing the situation he goads Dave into going on the defensive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what his intention was.

By asking "are you serious?" Dave inadvertantly disrespected Kyle. Instead of laughing it off or attempting to sincerely explain that he was serious he asks the same question again, like a street thug asking for someone's wallet. Run that scenario though your head and tell me you wouldn't get a litte peeved at Kyle. Kyle wanted Dave to get pissed. In fact he continued with his passive-aggressive assault with his email reply to Dave.

Long story short, someone pissed Kyle off and in turn abused his authority and power here at HardOCP to take a private pot shot at someone. No doubt doing serious damage to a company that may or may not be worthy of interest by HardOCP followers.

Kyle probably cost Dave his job. But if you ask me Kyle's position at HardOCP should be reconsidered.

This article was childish and reckless. Much props to lowering the bar for us HardOCP readers Kyle.
 
I love HardOCP. I visit it daily, hell 5-6 times daily. But its articles like this that make me not want to ever visit again.

Unfortunately this pretty much echoes my sentiments. This is the first hardware site I subscribed to and I've visited it regularly for a long time. I come here to read the reviews and the forums - I don't come to read trash about how the site owner managed to troll a random PR bloke into an email flame war, seemingly because it made him feel powerful to do so and so he could bask in the glowing praise of a thousand sycophants.

Would the same thing have happened if it had been a BFG press release? Newegg? Of course it wouldn't, because then all that nice advertisment money would go elsewhere to one of the 100 other review sites that Google turns up. There was absolutely no justification for publishing this at all.

Do I feel protected by it as a consumer that yet another bold PR statement goes unproven? Not in the slightest. Like everyone else into enthusiast level hardware, I rely on reviews and careful research to decide what products I want. Give me some credit for having the brains to not believe everything that every PR release tells me.
 
you know, thinking about this a day later, i think i realize my biggest problem with the whole "article"...it's not the manner in which it was conducted, or even the fact that is was made public...

My biggest problem is why the fuck do you even care about some euro boutique PC shop? this site used to cater to hardware enthusiasts, DIY'ers who tried to get the most out of their rigs tricking them out and pushing them to the extremes. NOT the lame slogans and by-lines used by pre-fabbed pc makers who don't affect 99.9% of your intended audience. I have been coming to this site since 2000, used to visit it everyday looking for cool and unique insight into my hobby. The last few years, it has changed. I still hit the front page every once in a while, but really just find myself immediately clicking on the forum button to see what some of the remaining enthusiasts have going on. But between the moving on of alot of the people that made these forums, not to mention one of the poorest running forums that i've seen (jeeze, it took me almost minute to go page to page in this forum)... i have to think back to the good old days why i still frequent this site.

<insert sarcastic and terse response>
 
Would the same thing have happened if it had been a BFG press release? Newegg? Of course it wouldn't, because then all that nice advertisment money would go elsewhere to one of the 100 other review sites that Google turns up. There was absolutely no justification for publishing this at all.

This is where you are out of line and simply making things up. I hold my advertisers feet to the fire ALL THE TIME for our readers.

BFG's last ThermoIntelligence cooling launch. Got the PR, send me the data to back it up, they did. Send me the product to review. Tested BETTER than they said it would. Published on the front page.

There was justification for publishing success as well there is for publishing failure.

I have not lost more than just a few ad dollars over the years to advertisers that do not like reviews of their products. You suggesting we do anything otherwise is simply talking out of your ass about things you have no knowledge of, and yes, I take personal offense to that.
 
He has you Kyle. Initially you questioned the SUBJECTIVE statement of 'industry leader'. This is the same type of statement as those quoted. You did not question those other companies on their subjective statements, ergo you were picking a fight. You want another phantom.
And the fact that he was rubbish at his job does not mean you have to be rubbish too - had you replied without any insulting comments, and just repeated your request for facts, he would have looked worse. As it is you made yourself look no different to him.

You seem to be intimate with the goings on here at HardOCP, would you tell me more? No you won't, because you are a forum troll simply making things up to back up your pathetic made up argument.
 
Man I can't wait to become a PR so I can ask people if they're serious when they inquire about a product. Then I'll get offended and defensive when someone asks proof for one of our product's claims.

I'm guessing Commodore is sprinkling fairy dust on their systems. 30% performance increase because you changed the RAM out? Lawl.
 
Wow, a lot of trashing of Kyle on here. WTF gives? As I see it, Kyle saw something fishy with a PR statement and investigated a little. He found out that the company wasn't willing to back up publicly made claims. He only got a little abrupt when the PR rep began personally attacking him. Maybe that was a little unprofessional, but how many of us wouldn't have done the same? Maybe, maybe not, but the point is the onus was on the PR rep to stay as professional as possible, something he failed miserably at. It was stupid of him to start a pissing match and then keep it going. When it started to detour into something of that nature, he should have brought the conversation back to a professional correspondence. The fact he didn't leads me to believe he was trying to derail the conversation, most likely because he knew they couldn't back up their claims. In other words, Kyle caught them red-handed on that and they weren't too happy about it. Personally, I'm happy to have this info. While I'd never touch a pre-built system for myself or my family, I stopped building PC's for friends and coworkers a long time ago because I don't like being 24x7 support for them. I recommend systems to people all the time and at this point my recommendation would be to avoid Commodore computers.

Thanks for the info Kyle.
 
Wow, a lot of trashing of Kyle on here. WTF gives? As I see it, Kyle saw something fishy with a PR statement and investigated a little. He found out that the company wasn't willing to back up publicly made claims. He only got a little abrupt when the PR rep began personally attacking him. Maybe that was a little unprofessional, but how many of us wouldn't have done the same? Maybe, maybe not, but the point is the onus was on the PR rep to stay as professional as possible, something he failed miserably at. It was stupid of him to start a pissing match and then keep it going. When it started to detour into something of that nature, he should have brought the conversation back to a professional correspondence. The fact he didn't leads me to believe he was trying to derail the conversation, most likely because he knew they couldn't back up their claims. In other words, Kyle caught them red-handed on that and they weren't too happy about it. Personally, I'm happy to have this info. While I'd never touch a pre-built system for myself or my family, I stopped building PC's for friends and coworkers a long time ago because I don't like being 24x7 support for them. I recommend systems to people all the time and at this point my recommendation would be to avoid Commodore computers.

Thanks for the info Kyle.

You judge commadore by the half published acts of one individual in an external PR firm? Were they to have a product competetively priced, which was built well and backed with high quality internal service, would you not reccomend them because of this article, which says little or nothing about commodre? Dont get me wrong - they may be total rubbish. But to judge them top to bottom on this article?
 
Would the same thing have happened if it had been a BFG press release? Newegg? Of course it wouldn't, because then all that nice advertisment money would go elsewhere to one of the 100 other review sites that Google turns up.

Wow, despite your forum moniker you must not read what Kyle writes or pay attention to what goes on in the rest of the site. Have you noticed he only allows ads for companies and products he trusts? The reason [H] consumer isn't around is because companies don't spend ad money at review sites that don't sing their praises. You see any Dell ads on the site? No? Maybe its because Kyle properly reviewed them and they didn't like it. I don't even want to imagine the money they've lost by not selling out.

I get nervous buying from an e-tailer that doesn't have an ad on this site.
 
...And you fail to see the fault in your fault finding. :p

I dunno, what if I was a food critic and I was sent a Pizza advertisement in the newspaper, hand out, under my windshield wiper. Would it then communicate better that I would see no reason to go confront them, for what every PR and advertising agency does worldwide. The sad truth is someone can use the term "award winning" if all they won was some 8th grade school pizza taste test. If you are going to take on every PR or advertising campaign that stretches the truth or embellishes, well then good luck because every single one I ever seen does, our society stopped buying plain honest truth, they need more flash. But you better take it up with the state or federal government if you want to do something about it, because confronting the cashier will only likely make you feel better, but accomplish nothing. There's ways to handle things and ways not to, which is more to the point really.

A food critic would taste the pizza. Kyle didn't get to try the product or get any data.

No self-respecting food critic would just pass on PR. He'd go to the pizzaria, eat some pizza, then write the truth (unless he was paid off). Kyle simply asked for data and he wrote the e-mail in standard business form. He got bullshit in return.

That's like if Kyle were the food critic, he got handed an empty box. No pizza inside. When he asked for pizza, he was told that it was awesome, but still didn't get pizza. What review of the pizza would you then expect Kyle to write?
 
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