Comcast CEO: “The More You Use, The More You Pay”

I'd also like to drop this little nugget. Since Comcast exempts their streaming content from the data cap, shouldn't Netflix also be exempt or discounted? After all they had to pay Comcast the interconnect fees.
 
Sure, there is cost in upgrading infrastructure for overall capaicty because of higher and higher usage. The problem arises when ISP's profits are already at 98% for internet access and they aren't investing it back into their network and continue to oversell at a 100:1 or more. Anyone remember Cox's yearly profit report? The left out the exact number for profit on internet service. If you did the math it came out to 98%.

My point is that we already pay for internet access and they make way too much money off it, without reinvestment back into the network.
 
I work for an ISP and I must say the stupidity and or ignorance in this thread is beyond even what I can imagine. Bandwidth costs are much more than just equipment costs. And I'm not talking about the issue of refusing to upgrade DSL areas by the older big dinosaur cable/phone companies. Everybody wants gigabit connections at dial-up prices. I'd explain it further but there are already too many ISP experts in this thread.
 
Don't like where this is going, while I'm not horribly outraged at 300GB/month in the sense that it's kind of expected, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop and they say the average home usage is only about 15GB/month because of all those grandmas who simply have a triple play package because it was cheaper than getting individual stuff but they use internet for the extent of emailing kids.
 
Bowman15 said:
I work for an ISP and I must say the stupidity and or ignorance in this thread is beyond even what I can imagine. Bandwidth costs are much more than just equipment costs. And I'm not talking about the issue of refusing to upgrade DSL areas by the older big dinosaur cable/phone companies. Everybody wants gigabit connections at dial-up prices. I'd explain it further but there are already too many ISP experts in this thread.
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Please go into detail.
 
Just cutoff the fucktards who think it's acceptable to pirate content.
Bandwidth problem solved, and the civilized worlds doesn't have to deal with shit internet when you thinks it's fine to have multiple torrent boxes going on residential internet.
 
schoolslave said:
Just cutoff the fucktards who think it's acceptable to pirate content.
Bandwidth problem solved, and the civilized worlds doesn't have to deal with shit internet when you thinks it's fine to have multiple torrent boxes going on residential internet.
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You realize streaming video content is the culprit right? 300gb cap can get eaten up in as little as 26 hours of Netflix and Youtube content.
 
Steve said:
Dear freeloading Comcast customers, the more internet you use, the more you have to pay. Duh.

"If you turn on the air conditioning at 60 versus 72, you consume more electricity," he said. "The same is true for [data] usage, so I think the same for a wireless device — the more bits you use, the more you pay."

The problem with the electricity analogy above is that your electricity bill is entirely based on usage. You only pay for what you use. Broadband and cable providers charge you a monthly fee even if you don't use the service all month. On top of that, now they want to double dip you for exceeding your ridiculously small data cap.
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FRACK YOU COMCAST GOOGLE FIBER IS COMING TO CHICAGO!
 
Steve said:
Dear freeloading Comcast customers, the more internet you use, the more you have to pay. Duh.

"If you turn on the air conditioning at 60 versus 72, you consume more electricity," he said. "The same is true for [data] usage, so I think the same for a wireless device — the more bits you use, the more you pay."

The problem with the electricity analogy above is that your electricity bill is entirely based on usage. You only pay for what you use. Broadband and cable providers charge you a monthly fee even if you don't use the service all month. On top of that, now they want to double dip you for exceeding your ridiculously small data cap.
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That may be true where you are, but that is absolutely not true in other utility service areas.

In Ontario, Canada for example, we pay for usage on a per kilowatt hour basis, with three billing bands during the day for low, medium and high priced rates. Then Ontario Hydro bills you for the cost of delivering the electricity, a charge for electricity lost in the transmission process (they have learned to make money from basic physics; as close to perpetual motion as you can come), a debt repayment charge (don't ask) and has been recently disclosed, the cost of renting the water used to power the hydroelectric generation turbines at places like Niagara Falls.

But wait! There's more! You don't just pay for what you use. Even if you use no electricity whatsoever, you still pay about $25/mo for the privilege of being connected to the grid. And all of this is subject to a sales tax of 13%. Comcast is simply using a 21st century billing system where every single possible cost is calculated and billed to the customer. Bend over.
 
which translates as, "Yes we have to expand infrastructure, but to do so we're going to charge you 5000x's what it really cost us to give you the extra total bandwidth"
 
This is exactly why Google found it necessary to build it's own Internet service provider. They in essence are check-mating this behavior because it is a very real threat to their business. Comcast is still stuck in an Era where content creators and providers ruled your eyeballs with an iron fist and this is another attempt by them trying to make up the revenue from cord cutters. Google can and will roll out fiber to every house in the nation if they have to, in the late 00's they were building out more "dark fiber" than any company in the country. Comcast and AT&T just forced them to play their hand.
 
Bowman15 said:
I work for an ISP and I must say the stupidity and or ignorance in this thread is beyond even what I can imagine. Bandwidth costs are much more than just equipment costs. And I'm not talking about the issue of refusing to upgrade DSL areas by the older big dinosaur cable/phone companies. Everybody wants gigabit connections at dial-up prices. I'd explain it further but there are already too many ISP experts in this thread.
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Proof or utter BS.
 
Comcast decided to shuffle the packages and cost in my area at the end of a '12 month deal' My plan was eliminated and if I wanted to keep it I had to pay MORE than an upgraded speed...so I move to the 'upgraded' speed, 105/20 - 90$/m for 12 months, after that's over (here soon) it's going up to $129.99/m. A local fiber company does 60/60 for $115/m - add in the fact I go over 300gb each month no problem for the past 2 years that makes my bill $160+...guess it's time to finally ditch Comcast.
 
Another "ISP Expert" here.

Usage based billing and transfer caps with overage rates are double dipping, pure and simple. They have absolutely nothing to do with real capacity and core infrastructure. Just try and ask your regional monopoly ISP what the exact metric is for calculating your data usage. Ask them if it's based on raw data transfer or payload. If they suggest it's payload, ask them if they're inspecting your traffic for protocol initiated retransmissions and if they're billing you for that. At best, usage based billing is a ruse to disguise inadequate core infrastructure and the cost of monopoly-to-monopoly infrastructure "peering agreements". When physical network capacity is exceeded, quality of service protocols begin triage, and Net Neutrality won't do anything to touch THAT because 911's VoIP is more important than your porn.

Your internet traffic, whatever the source, gets passed around all the regional monopolies in an amazing circle-jerk of billing for inter-network access. They call this "peering", but the real cost is in infrastructure deployment, operations, and maintenance. Once the copper and fiber are out there and the electricity is on, the flow of data can be metered up to the physical limits of the medium no problem. That flow is called bandwidth, not speed, but you knew that already. The trouble begins when the bandwidth available on the trunk and core is less than the sum of the bandwidths sold to customers.

Nearly every residential circuit is oversold. You don't really think that ugly box serving your neighborhood is REALLY capable of serving each house 50mbps 100% of the time, do you? Try asking your regional monopoly how many customers they have in the area, or count the number of houses in the area and divide it by the number of regional monopolies trying to sell you services. Divide 1000 by that number. That's the maximum bandwidth in mbps you should expect during peak usage if you're not in a rural area. Then remember that there are probably 10 neighborhoods around you, all sharing the same 1gbps trunk to the regional monopoly's core. If you're lucky or in an overpopulated area, it might be 10-20gbps.

Here's what an honest ISP might tell you, if one existed: We can reasonably offer you any maximum access bandwidth up to (the trunk bandwidth to the core network). During peak network utilization and congestion events, based on customers in your region and the physical infrastructure to our core, we estimate a maximum peak access bandwidth of up to (the trunk bandwidth to the core network divided by the number of customers served by that trunk) for Best-Effort services. Real access bandwidth can and will fluctuate as customers in your region use our services and new customers are added to the network. It is possible that other customers' paid prioritization and quality of service agreements will further impact your access bandwidth during peak network utilization and congestion events. Paid prioritization options are available, please contact your local sales team. If you require a greater access bandwidth than we can currently provide through existing infrastructure, we will gladly work to negotiate a contract inclusive of construction costs to expand our network and accommodate your needs. We do not offer guaranteed minimum access bandwidth. We do not offer guaranteed throughput. In accordance with FCC regulations, we do not shape or police traffic based on content, but due to the nature of the internet, we have no control over bandwidth or throughput after your outbound traffic is outside our network and before your inbound traffic is inside our network. Since measurement of real and useful data transfer is a complex calculation involving your access bandwidth, our network utilization, networking protocols, and several other factors that may violate your reasonable expectation of privacy to obtain, we will never use "data transfer" or any estimate thereof as a metric for billing.

Fat chance.
 
I don't torrent at all and sometimes get close or maybe even pass the cap (they don't have it activated in my area apparently). The 250/300GB cap is pretty bad these days. Just pushing my Steam library onto a computer could eat up a size-able portion of that. Not to mention a few things like streaming video, OS updates/installs, multiplayer gaming, self-authored video uploads, or the photography that I do where I upload full sized photos into an online gallery. There really needs to be more competition or something else that would improve this situation with high speed internet access ISPs.
 
Look at the financial statements, specifically the profit margin. They aren't losing money providing you connectivity.

Companies exist to make money - not to better serve you. If better serving you equates to more profit, you win. If it doesn't, you lose. It really is that simple.
 
Sooner or later the Internet will be divided into chunks like cable tv packages.

Streaming add-on: Have unlimited access to some of your favourite streaming services! $9.95/month. Subscription fee to streaming provider not included.
Gaming add-on: Enjoy games? Add our Gaming add-on package to enjoy XBox live or Playstation Network at optimal speeds for a smooth online experience! $19.95/month *Subscription to Xbox Live or the Playstation Network is required*

Bundle to save!
 
BadAim said:
Look at the financial statements, specifically the profit margin. They aren't losing money providing you connectivity.

Companies exist to make money - not to better serve you. If better serving you equates to more profit, you win. If it doesn't, you lose. It really is that simple.
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I'm not surprised Comcast is saying this even though it is not a good analogy. Just like any other company, they are trying to maximize their profits. It'd be nice if there were more competition since Comcast has such shitty pricing and then all kinds of fees with it.
 
Alright, so where's our $10/month cable service if we're gonna pay per gig? Can't have it both ways if you wanna charge ten bucks for what costs you a thousandth of a penny.
 
BadAim said:
Look at the financial statements, specifically the profit margin. They aren't losing money providing you connectivity.

Companies exist to make money - not to better serve you. If better serving you equates to more profit, you win. If it doesn't, you lose. It really is that simple.
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Companies exist to provide a service or a product and make money. Without competition, the model fails. Companies have no reason to better serve you. It's disappointing how bad internet choices are. Cox wants to charge me $70 for marginal burst/pause service. I finally went DSL. While slower, it's always at full speed and costs $31. Those are my options.
 
As fucking SHIT as Charter is, I'm glad that for $39.99 I get unlimited usage 60down and fucking shit barely 3mbs up if I'm lucky.


Google Fiber cant come to LA soon enough!
 
A buddy of mine lives in Nashville where Comcast has been doing this data cap crap for years. He can't even buy digital download games because of the cap. Luckily google fiber is laying lines down right now, Comcast is going to lose their entire market in less than a year.
 
Fanattic said:
There have been multiple leaks outlining how this is a business decision and not a technical one. Meaning they aren't over burdened at all. They can charge what they want because we have no options. If your power company tripled your rates would you stop paying? The internet is a necessity in the modern world. Many jobs require you have an internet connection at home for a remote connection in. It's being treated like a driver's license. No license, no job, no ability to remote in from home, no job. Cancelling service ie "Voting with your wallet" simply is not an option.
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And if power cost too much, I could run a generator for a hell of a lot less than getting a backbone connection.
 
They should just add a Data Threshold Technology fee next to your HD Technology fee
 
When we are able to pay generators of electricity and entertainment directly and plant providers seperately,there will be reasonable prices.Unfortunately US interpretation of capitalism and democracy for corporations is to buy your way from the governing bodies,have all competition excluded by law and rape the consumer.
 
Shmee said:
Well, you do pay for the electrical hookup every month even if you aren't using any electricity. It is very minimal though.
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My monthly charge just to HAVE gas and electricity is around $23. That's double what it was 4 years ago. That's not very minimal to me.
 
But they're charging you monthly as well, charge either by usage or by time, this is getting ridiculous they want you to pay for everything twice.

E.G. $0.10/GB OR $50/month NOT BOTH.
 
Quix said:
But they're charging you monthly as well, charge either by usage or by time, this is getting ridiculous they want you to pay for everything twice.

E.G. $0.10/GB OR $50/month NOT BOTH.
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I used to pay $0.25/GB in overages at a dedicated server provider I used circa 2007. Actual transit is priced in 95th percentile increments, and if Comcast wanted to be fair they would sell to customers in this metric. This metric is too confusing for the vast majority of customers though, and would really complicate advertising and won't ever be done outside of transit and colocation service sales.
 
Steve said:
The problem with the electricity analogy above is that your electricity bill is entirely based on usage. You only pay for what you use. Broadband and cable providers charge you a monthly fee even if you don't use the service all month. On top of that, now they want to double dip you for exceeding your ridiculously small data cap.
Click to expand...

The issue is even more fundamental. You see with Water or Electricity there is a generation cost. The power in your lines is generated at a remote station that must be paid for the cost of generating the power.

With the internet the only cost to the ISP is the infrastructure, not the actual data. The data is available for free for anyone to use. What we pay for with the internet is the connection fees and the infrastructure cost to get it to our home. Charging us for the data usage means they are charging us for something that does not cost them anything.

Now in fairness to the ISPs this might have changed as the big pipeline providers might now be charging for data usage, but if that is so I want some industry transparency showing me this before I give the ISPs a pass.

Cell services having data caps makes at least some since. The infrastructure cost for good cell broadband is really high and people will never pay it. The cap system allows them to cover that cost. Hardline internet however has a much lower cost for the base hardware and is charging a lot more for the service.

Caps for hard lines are a scam, yet we are now stuck with them :mad:
 
The problem with comcast is that they've reached the limit of growth through new customers. If anything they're losing customers.

The only way they can increase their revenue now, is by trying to get more money out of existing customers.
 
Computer Ed said:
The issue is even more fundamental. You see with Water or Electricity there is a generation cost. The power in your lines is generated at a remote station that must be paid for the cost of generating the power.

With the internet the only cost to the ISP is the infrastructure, not the actual data. The data is available for free for anyone to use. What we pay for with the internet is the connection fees and the infrastructure cost to get it to our home. Charging us for the data usage means they are charging us for something that does not cost them anything.

Now in fairness to the ISPs this might have changed as the big pipeline providers might now be charging for data usage, but if that is so I want some industry transparency showing me this before I give the ISPs a pass.

Cell services having data caps makes at least some since. The infrastructure cost for good cell broadband is really high and people will never pay it. The cap system allows them to cover that cost. Hardline internet however has a much lower cost for the base hardware and is charging a lot more for the service.

Caps for hard lines are a scam, yet we are now stuck with them :mad:
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I am not sure that the cost of hardline is that much lower ... we charge our customers big bucks for those box hubs and long fiber cables needed for them to establish connections between the hubs and their data centers ... in each city they are active in they need to support sales, service (both for customer and infrastructure support), and some office personnel ... With a large number of cities they probably also have national employees as well ... their data hubs that connect them to the Tier 1 internet providers also require support and are costly to maintain (and we charge lots for that hardware too) ... and most of the big ISPs also provide commercial Enterprise services that require support and resources (probably higher than the consumer ones) ... whether wireless or hardline there are enormous costs for any ISP who is larger than just a local company
 
The practice of charging for speed and usage has always bother me.

If you are paying for a speed, it is assumed that you will get that speed 24/7. So when a cap is also placed on you .... you aren't really getting what you paid for, when it comes to speed. As the cap prevents you from using your connection, 24/7, with the speed you were sold. The cap should actually be the speed if it was in use 24/7.
 
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