college concerns

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uB3rn00b3r

Limp Gawd
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Oct 19, 2003
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Hello

I am in my senior year in high school and I have to make my decision about college soon. I am currently applied to Penn State main campus and I will more than likely get in I think. At PSU I plan to major in information science and technology.

IST

Basically this is IT with a lot of business thrown in. I like it a lot and I think it would make a great career but I think I would sooner do CS. I want to do something in depth, with software. The problem with CS compared to this to me is that the job prospects are much better for the IST. I know I should pick what I enjoy but money is important to me too and IST grads seem to be doing very well.

The other day I recieved mail about a place called neumont university. neumont
They just won the CIO award for 2006. It seems to be a pretty progressive take on CS education and the starting salary is great. It seems great but I dont know if I could handle 3 years at a place that is 10 percent women :eek: , lol. I dont want to miss out on a good time during college. Does anyone go here? Are there other college kids from other universities in Salt Lake City?

Sorry If was rambling, but if anyone could opionions on either of these programs would help me out a great deal.

thanks.
 
Computer science majors make, on average, a little less than 60k out the door. I believe only engineers (chemical, electrical, and computer) make more than that on average starting out. With that said, I'd definitely go to a standard university. 10% women? Pfft. You gotta get laid sometime, and it'll take a lot more effort there :D
 
Job prospects? I'm graduating this semester from GT and have two confirmed offers and I'm almost positive I'll have two more by Monday of next week. Get the experience and do your own projects as well as school and you will not have any issues finding a job. Average starting salary in Atlanta for CS with a reputable degree and experience is about 50-55k.

Edit: Take the training you want to take in college (i.e. major) as you want to make sure you can enjoy your job (or at least not hate it). It's hard to start your career in one area and jump to the another without some nice bosses . :)
 
http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/

I just graduated in CS and I'm doing pretty damn well. Granted I don't have any college loans. I went to the University of Maine, Orono. They have a good CS department. I mostly went there, because I wanted to stay in Maine. The University is well known by employers in the state. I received many job offers and ended up accepting a job 2 days after graduation. I'm currently a Software Engineer in a R&D company. I'm making $50,000 a year not counting benefits such as 10 days holidays, Dental, Health, 401K with matching, and more. I guess if you include that (which I don't) it is around $58,000.

I think you could do well with either major. Personally if you like CS then I would say just go for the CS Major. Why do a major that you might not like as much? In the end you probably wont end up making much more money.

Lastly... don't go to a smaller school. You'll miss out on the college experience.


edit: I forgot to add that my roommate graduated with basically an IT major with many Business courses. He dropped out of CS because it was to hard for him. He still haven't found a job.
 
Computation (aka Computing Science or Computer Science) differs greatly from Information Technology. Look into both closely (curriculum and career opportunities) and you may find that only one appeals to you.

I've never heard of Neumont University before (not surprising, as I don't get out much) but their course listing doesn't include a Compilers class, nor did I see anything on Automata Theory. I did see many classes focused on building software. Additionally, they separate their BS program into various Microsoft and IBM tracks.

Personally, I do not consider this a Computation (aka Computer Science) education and would not recommend such a curriculum.
 
MonkeyShave said:
Computation (aka Computing Science or Computer Science) differs greatly from Information Technology. Look into both closely (curriculum and career opportunities) and you may find that only one appeals to you.

I've never heard of Neumont University before (not surprising, as I don't get out much) but their course listing doesn't include a Compilers class, nor did I see anything on Automata Theory. I did see many classes focused on building software. Additionally, they separate their BS program into various Microsoft and IBM tracks.

Personally, I do not consider this a Computation (aka Computer Science) education and would not recommend such a curriculum.
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You're not the only one who hasn't heard of it. I looked it up and I have discovered some tidbits.

1.) it's very small (like a few hundred students)
2.) it's for-profit, in the same class as schools like ITT Tech. I think that's why they received a CIO award, because they're treated like a business.
3.) You attend class from 8 - 5 every day M - F.
4.) The school itself is very new, the first batch of graduates just graduated in March 2006.

And yeah, the curriculum isn't what I'd call straight up CS. It's more application of computer science, heavily focusing on programming rather than theory, so it's more like a software engineering degree. Computer programming as a major (which is what it strongly seems like to me, considering they separate the curricula by company tracks) just doesn't cover the actual science part of the CS, like the theory of computation, or the foundational theory.

I won't touch on the money subject though - I chose my major before I even got into high school because I knew it was one of the few things I would actually like to do when I grew up. :)
 
Ive got 2 semesters left in CS at Clemson. Next semester I'm finishing up my co-op position with a hospital system in charlotte. I am almost guaranteed a job off from them as well as probably 2 or 3 others. Right now is a great time to get into the field. I'm not saying it will be this good when you graduate but it might be. All my freinds that have recieved offers have found them to be in and around the 50 - 60k a year range.
 
BillLeeLee said:
it's more like a software engineering degree...
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I doubt that. SWEng deals more with applying general engineering practices to the software development process (i.e. requirements, planning, etc.). It sounds like this place offers a degree more along the lines of "this is how you program a computer" as opposed to "what are the methods behind designing and implementing a system and where did they come from?"
 
amromousa said:
I doubt that. SWEng deals more with applying general engineering practices to the software development process (i.e. requirements, planning, etc.). It sounds like this place offers a degree more along the lines of "this is how you program a computer" as opposed to "what are the methods behind designing and implementing a system and where did they come from?"
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Well, I wanted to give the program some benefit of the doubt. They do have some software methodologies courses in there, though yes, this does seem more like a programming major.
 
To the OP: I think the consensus here is try to get into a better school and pick a major that suits what you want to do later..
 
NakedRunner96 said:
Ive got 2 semesters left in CS at Clemson. Next semester I'm finishing up my co-op position with a hospital system in charlotte. I am almost guaranteed a job off from them as well as probably 2 or 3 others. Right now is a great time to get into the field. I'm not saying it will be this good when you graduate but it might be. All my freinds that have recieved offers have found them to be in and around the 50 - 60k a year range.
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Haha, small world indeed, I graduate from Clemson in May with a BS in CIS, which is pretty much the same thing as CS but I have a dedicated business/management minor instead of picking an emphasis area of my choice. I feel I have gotten a more well rounded education going this route rather than CS and have 95% of the same job opportunities CS majors do but with more flexibility/opportunities going into a different field such as management or anything more business related. I have received one offer so far and it has been for $40k, but I think the newest salary survey results say the average is $52k. I would definitely do something that you will be happy doing and happy having a job with. If your hobby is in computing that doesn't necessarily mean you will enjoy being a software engineer. Have you taken any computer science courses in high school?
 
haha thanks guys. I am definetly not going to neumont now. Anyway I have pretty much decided I want to do CS but take some business/econ courses and perhaps even get an mba. Is PSU a good school for CS? I have the grades and scores to go somewhere a little better but I want to have a goo time too.
 
uB3rn00b3r said:
haha thanks guys. I am definetly not going to neumont now. Anyway I have pretty much decided I want to do CS but take some business/econ courses and perhaps even get an mba. Is PSU a good school for CS? I have the grades and scores to go somewhere a little better but I want to have a goo time too.
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According to US News, over all PSU is ranked 47th in the country, which is pretty darned good. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php

There are no rankings for undergraduate CS programs, but you could check the Graduate ones to get an idea (for example, I think GaTech is ranked top 10 or top dozen for Graduate CS programs and is 38th over all).
 
So do rankings even really matter at the undergraduate level? Would it hurt me professionally to go to a liberal arts school like Allegheny College and major in computer science if I went to get a masters at a high ranking place like GA Tech? I ask because I could play football at a place like Allegheny, I just dont want to hurt my professional chances at making a lot of money.
 
When I interview people, I don't give a darn where they went to school. I've no-hired kids with 4.3 GPAs from MIT, and hired guys who don't have degrees. What matters is: do you know your stuff? Are you passionate about technology? Would you be a good addition to the company?

Does playing football at Allegheny College get you closer to knowing your stuff?
 
uB3rn00b3r said:
So do rankings even really matter at the undergraduate level? Would it hurt me professionally to go to a liberal arts school like Allegheny College and major in computer science if I went to get a masters at a high ranking place like GA Tech? I ask because I could play football at a place like Allegheny, I just dont want to hurt my professional chances at making a lot of money.
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Mike brings up a good point about knowing your stuff -- the rankings themselves don't matter, but it gives you an idea of how the programs themselves stand. Most of the time, the "higher ranked" programs better prepare you -- that doesn't mean everyone who graduates from that school will be top notch, but on average they'll be better prepared. IMHO, if you know Allegheny College has a good program, then go for it (ask alumni and others in the field in your area) -- I don't know enough about them to tell you.
 
I'll try to be clearer: rankings don't mean shit. They're a status symbol. People who don't know how to interview will get wowed by it; chicks might dig it when you mention it at a party. A higher ranked school probably has professors who write more papers, or better equipment in the labs.

What matters the most is the student. You can go to MIT and scrape by, or get good grades and have your head in the clouds about how an industry really works. You can go to Schmucksville State and get off your ass and read, do internships, and don't prioritize pussy or football or having fun over laying the foundation for your future.
 
BillLeeLee said:
heavily focusing on programming rather than theory, so it's more like a software engineering degree.
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Ouch! Software engineering degrees around here are CS, but with all upper level software related courses required instead of technical electives.
 
BillLeeLee said:
You're not the only one who hasn't heard of it. I looked it up and I have discovered some tidbits.

1.) it's very small (like a few hundred students)
2.) it's for-profit, in the same class as schools like ITT Tech . I think that's why they received a CIO award, because they're treated like a business.
3.) You attend class from 8 - 5 every day M - F.
4.) The school itself is very new, the first batch of graduates just graduated in March 2006.

And yeah, the curriculum isn't what I'd call straight up CS. It's more application of computer science, heavily focusing on programming rather than theory, so it's more like a software engineering degree. Computer programming as a major (which is what it strongly seems like to me, considering they separate the curricula by company tracks) just doesn't cover the actual science part of the CS, like the theory of computation, or the foundational theory.

I won't touch on the money subject though - I chose my major before I even got into high school because I knew it was one of the few things I would actually like to do when I grew up. :)
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Does that mean ITT-Tech sucks ?
What's wrong with ITT-Tech ?
And can I ask what are normal class hours for IT schools ?
Hours per week?

Thanks
 
lol 10% women, thats about right for cs majors at my university though. Hardly any at all, maybe at most 8 or 7 in a class of 90... Then I go to my marco econ class and see almost 60% women lol!
 
I went to the University of Delaware, entered as a double major (Comp Sci and Music Education) and ended up dropping the Comp Sci major after my sophomore year. It wasn't that is was too hard as much as I realized I hated the prospect of spending my career in a cubicle looking over code. I do make less money teaching music than I would have doing CISC, but I enjoy my job, so that mattered to me.

Also, do take into accound the atmosphere of the school you are going to. You are going to be spending several years living there, so you have to at least tolerate the place.
 
The-One said:

Does that mean ITT-Tech sucks ?
What's wrong with ITT-Tech ?
And can I ask what are normal class hours for IT schools ?
Hours per week?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I didn't say that being a for-profit school was necessarily good or bad, I am only saying that Neumont exists as a business entity with the goal of making a profit (many other schools besides ITT Tech do it, but ITT is one of the most well known, so I chose them).

Class hours at colleges vary on courseload, and of course the school.

At my school (WPI), I had between 3 - 5 hours of class a day, depending on if I were taking seminars, had labs, or such. One quarter I only had classes on Tuesday/Wednesday because I was taking graduate level courses that only met at night (6 - 9 PM), and I was working on an independent project for an elective, so I didn't have to attend that class.

Neumont seems to just make you sit in class for 8-9 hours straight. People I knew from high school that went to Boston University had between 7 - 11 hours of class every day.

As far as hours per week, depends on how often your classes meet. At WPI, in general, each class met 4 times a week, and Wednesday was usually the day they didn't meet, except for classes that had labs, or some of the science classes.

There are too many colleges to talk about this in general, so if you had a college in mind, it would be easier to figure out.

lol 10% women, thats about right for cs majors at my university though. Hardly any at all, maybe at most 8 or 7 in a class of 90... Then I go to my marco econ class and see almost 60% women lol!
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My school was roughly 20-25% women, but the CS department had about, oh 3 students per each graduating year that were CS, and CS and Electrical/Computer Engineering were around equal for number of people who switched majors to something easier (most likely MIS).

My friend was accepted to my school as well, but he opted to go to RIT because it had more girls. Too bad he didn't realize software engineering wasn't really filled to the brim with females either. :rolleyes:
 
NulloModo said:
It wasn't that is was too hard as much as I realized I hated the prospect of spending my career in a cubicle looking over code.
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Or, you could commit to being really good at it. Then, you can work anywhere you want, write books, hit the lecture circuits, travel, and so on.
 
mikeblas said:
Or, you could commit to being really good at it. Then, you can work anywhere you want, write books, hit the lecture circuits, travel, and so on.
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touché.
 
My point is that a degree doesn't imply anything. It doesn't mean working in a cubicle; it doesn't mean getting a certain salary. You can get a CS degree and work on a farm, in the sewers, or become an astronaut. When starting out, regardless of the degree, you aren't guaranteed any particular salary because of your degree -- you earn it.
 
BillLeeLee said:
My friend was accepted to my school as well, but he opted to go to RIT because it had more girls. Too bad he didn't realize software engineering wasn't really filled to the brim with females either. :rolleyes:
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My GF went to RIT and she was one of the very few girls. Looking back it may have been nice to have had more girls at my school. I went to school for an education though, so girls were secondary. (PS.: went to WPI as an undergrad too and I must say: not many good looking chicks there)
 
Most students are going to change their major a few times.

Most students don't declare a major until their 2nd year or later.

Most students spend a majority of their first 2 years taking general education classes.

For somebody still in HS, don't worry about what major you're going to go into. Go someplace that gives you options, you can be happy & grow into an independent person (this means DO NOT let your parents call your professors and hassle them about your grades). Take some intro-level classes in departments you're interested in and see what you think about the field and then decide. Don't go to university for a paycheck - learn about something you love & be happy with life. If you just want to make money, go to the local community college and become a plumber.

One thing to keep in mind about school selection - if you're looking at published rankings for science/engineering a large part of those rankings is based on how much research the professors are doing. If you find yourself at a large research-oriented school (rather than an education-oriented school) it's just as likely that it'll hurt your education as it will help it. In a research oriented school, you're far more likely to have classes run by grad students and adjunct professors (because the 'real' professors that bring so much prestige have more important things to do than deal with a bunch of clueless undergrads).

In a school where research is secondary the faculty's primary job is teaching. They're hired to do it & they're evaluated on it. In a research school, the faculty teach less and research publications and grant money is the basis for getting tenure not the ability to effectively teach.
 
So your saying it would be better to go a large school like PSU where I would have many different options available to me?
 
uB3rn00b3r said:
So your saying it would be better to go a large school like PSU where I would have many different options available to me?
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Unless you are absolutely dead set on a major and almost nothing could possibly change your mind, going to a more general school like a PSU would be beneficial because of the wide range of majors they offer, so you can sample some stuff and might even find that you like another field entirely different from technical majors.
 
What BillLeeLee says is generally true, I suppose. But note that IST at PSU has you taking two IST specific courses in the first year, and four in the second year... and intern requirements on top of it.
 
So do you think IST is a valuable education? I want do something in depth in technology but still have business skills. I want something more in depth tech wise than MIS.
 
uB3rn00b3r said:
So do you think IST is a valuable education? I want do something in depth in technology but still have business skills. I want something more in depth tech wise than MIS.
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BS in CS + MBA if you have it in you.

if you want something more technical than MIS, there aren't many options other than CS or CompE. although i really have no knowledge of IST, may be that that's a decent alternative. But such degrees, if they are of much worth, will be rather involving, and a business degree of some sort would be hard to integrate with your degree plan. which is why i'd suggest pursuing an MBA afterward, if business is your primary career focus.
 
uB3rn00b3r said:
So do you think IST is a valuable education? I want do something in depth in technology but still have business skills. I want something more in depth tech wise than MIS.
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I started out in CS here at UT; I figured I loved computers so hey why not study computer science? My actual programming classes were allright, but I really was NOT into the math and theory aspect of it I changed majors after my first year. It may be that the focus of study is different at PSU, or perhaps that you like those areas.

You might consider going with IST as you mentioned and then taking CS or EE classes on the side, since you will undoubtedly need electives. That way you could have a business related degree that you would have no trouble finding jobs with, and be able to focus on the specific areas that interested you.

At any rate, it is not the end of the world if you end up not liking the degree you picked, it just makes things more complicated, and perhaps take longer. If possible, you might try to talk with a degree/career advisor at PSU and see if they have any insight for you. Good luck!
 
drizzt81 said:
My GF went to RIT and she was one of the very few girls. Looking back it may have been nice to have had more girls at my school. I went to school for an education though, so girls were secondary. (PS.: went to WPI as an undergrad too and I must say: not many good looking chicks there)
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go tigers! .. im a first year at RIT, cs major. So far i love the curriculum. I could care less if there are no girls in my major. I'm not having any trouble finding girls. The school is still about 70% guys.. but I still don't mind it. If you dont mind cold, look into RIT. they have a really good program.
 
I don’t think it’s possible to decide what you want to do so earlier on, I’ve switched from engineering to computing to business whilst at college. Then I started doing a degree in IT and switched again (to computing) because I was getting much better grades in my programming classes + I enjoy it which is very important.

One thing I would say is if you want to do anything technical in computing is to make sure your maths skills are up to scratch. My maths skills met the entry requirements but I noticed my maths skills were started to hold me back so I took some extra classes. I don’t enjoy maths much (but love programming), but having solid maths skills makes life allot easier.

Oh and switching isn’t all that bad, if I do a little bit more work I can have two degrees:D

Oh yeah and as for the whole ‘who cares about girls, I’m only here for my education’, life’s too short, have some fun. You can work/study over 80 hours a week and still have time, just try not to get too caught up. I still have a time out from them when I got exams coming up. Best of both worlds I say.
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
I don’t think it’s possible to decide what you want to do so earlier on, I’ve switched from engineering to computing to business whilst at college. Then I started doing a degree in IT and switched again (to computing) because I was getting much better grades in my programming classes + I enjoy it which is very important.
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depends. i wanted to do CS since i was 12 years old, and never second-guessed it ever. I have 1 more year left now. I did at some point consider double-majoring in CS and physics, but CS was always the primary focus. i understand this is a rare case though.
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
I don’t think it’s possible to decide what you want to do so earlier on, I’ve switched from engineering to computing to business whilst at college.
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It's not common, but it certainly is possible. I never considered anything else.
 
fluxion said:
depends. i wanted to do CS since i was 12 years old, and never second-guessed it ever. I have 1 more year left now. I did at some point consider double-majoring in CS and physics, but CS was always the primary focus. i understand this is a rare case though.
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Same here. Done in a month and just accepted a generous offer w/ the company I've been interning at for about 6 months, but the job hunt was definitely stressful (hard to get ppl to let you sit on offers so you can compare and pick what's best for you). I made sure to market myself and interview with any place I thought I'd like working for.
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
I don’t think it’s possible to decide what you want to do so earlier on,
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since i was in 9th grade i new i wanted to be an electrical engineer.

I'm currently working on my masters in electrical engineering.....
 
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