CoD Has Ruined A Generation of Shooter Players

WorldExclusive said:
In modern games, you need about two more C4 kills to get another medal, meh, and move on to the next useless challenge.
Meanwhile your team is losing but it doesn't matter, because you'll level up anyways.
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If that's how you chose to play it. I always play to win first and level 2nd. Sure, in public servers some team mates may simply be trying to level, but they are usually the players who are so shit they can only act as a distraction anyway. Let them do what they will and use them as a bullet shield when they're on your team and free kills when they're on the other team. I can't count the number of kills I've gotten and objectives I've taken exploiting the retardation of a team mate to flush out an enemy or reveal a sniper location or distract someone while I flank.
 
Q3 railguns, tfc conc/rocket jumping, mid air rocket strikes, UT, what hath become of games now!?

Anyone remember joint operations typhoon rising? That game practically required team play. Huge open maps as far as you'd ever need to go, none of this 'turn back, even though you have enough ram to run games from memory nowadays' and if you didn't have a balanced team, you lost. Vehicles were generally not effective without team mates. You could go proper offroading to flank or get behind enemy defenses through dense jungle, it could take you 5 minutes or more sometimes, building anticipation the entire time. Get a helicopter to drop you off at an incredibly remote sniper location, where hitting someone actually required split timing and calculation for bullet drop. Pummel defensive positions with stationary and mobile grenade launchers, until someone knifed you.. dx9 days. Things have gone backwards since overall in my opinion. BF2 was fun in a similar vein but not as hard or expansive or as free of a world to play. Yes the eyecandy is better now, but yet to find a modern, true open world, multiplayer shooter that requires skill.
 
SoAndSo said:
havent read any of this thread, but compare a game such at ut2k4 to CoD and look at the difference.

ut is FAST paced, frantic action with crazy weapons (C-C-C-C COMBO WHORE). everything else is slow and boring compared. a noob cod player can do OK when playing on online, you chuck a noob in a ut server and watch the rage quit as he gets blown up 30 times in about 3 mins.

Different skills required to become even slightly good at ut compared to being able to do OK right off the bat

yes, i have a hard-on for ut, but it was just such an awesome team game
SHOUTOUT TO ANY FRKS here!
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UT is where I "cut my teeth" in FPS games, so to speak. I played the original for probably 50 to 100 hours, not having much else to do or play. I loved it. I couldn't play online at that point, though.

I've played so many FPS games since then, but UT is still my favorite FPS series. Hell, my wife wanted to get used to playing FPS games so we could play co-op online on our Xboxes, so I bought us 2 copies of UT3 for the 360. I got her trained on that game so that she can keep up with me on most difficulty levels with bots, and she can do plenty of damage in online multiplayer. It's weird too, because she has a weird method of aiming with the analog sticks. She usually only lines up horizontal or vertical at a time (I'll admit incredibly quickly), and still manages to hit moving targets with auto aim off.

With my wife trained on UT3, her skills transferred pretty easily to most FPS games, Third person shooters or anything even remotely close. Mass Effect 3, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Dishonored... the shooting mechanics in Unreal Tournament really apply across the board, especially with the wide variety of weapons.

However, she hates Call of Duty, so I can't really tell if those skills would transfer to those games or not.
 
Tudz said:
If that's how you chose to play it. I always play to win first and level 2nd. Sure, in public servers some team mates may simply be trying to level, but they are usually the players who are so shit they can only act as a distraction anyway. Let them do what they will and use them as a bullet shield when they're on your team and free kills when they're on the other team. I can't count the number of kills I've gotten and objectives I've taken exploiting the retardation of a team mate to flush out an enemy or reveal a sniper location or distract someone while I flank.
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There are times when CoD players try to take advantage of a specific loadout or glitch, and I find them the easiest to kill, actually. I think I was playing Modern Warfare 2 and some guy tried to take me on with a double shotgun, and I just circle straffed him to death. He never hit me once. When people just try to shut up and play, trying to use the standard game mechanics, the game gets more chaotic than anything. That's where I find kills to be the most random.

Keep in mind I've never progressed beyond level 9 or 10 in any CoD game. I get bored way too fast.
 
The dev is right (even if he made a crap game), modern shooters do compress the skill caps. Can't really blame businesses for doing it either - making games more accessible and social (yawn everything has to be 'social') sells more copies of games. Consumers are not interested in spending hours learning how to play, they want to be able to play it NOW.

It's not just shooters, the new SimCity does it, RPGs and RTS's are doing it too. Hell even MMOs are simple compared to a decade ago.

The only games that aren't doing it are the ones that never really lost their competitive scene (CS/SC2 etc.), because they had a guaranteed customer base... and even then you could argue they have made the game more accessible to attract newer players with the new versions of their game that they released.
 
I'm somewhat of an ex-gamer. I put in maybe an hour per week, if that. My game of choice today is TF2. It's the only game I've played for the last 4-5 years. I used to break skulls at Quake1 and Quake2. I got into counter strike source and was also pretty decent as a pub-star more or less. My skill level at FPS is moderately decent. I usually rank #1 on any server I play at within an hour or so and am frequently considered the "go to" guy in most games I play.

So I started playing CS:GO because hey, I really liked CS:S. I absolutely sucked. I cant go more than 10 seconds without dying, and usually run a 1:2 K/D ratio. I'm not gonna lie, it has been discouraging. I've kinda lost interest in it. At first I thought maybe I'm just not a CS fan anymore. Maybe these new maps suck. But something tells me it might just be the skill disparity. I've fallen too far behind the curve and lack the motivation to catch up. It's just not worth it. If I'm not automatically good at the game, I dont even want to play.

As a result CS suffers because now theres one less player in the field. I imagine the same is true of CoD players. It does kinda make sense the dumb the game down some so you dont frighten off all the new blood. We want new players to play with, not just the same ex-pro's.
 
I miss Quake 3 Arena / Unreal (Tournament) style shooters. Fast paced, lots of movement, in all 3 axis, lots of guns, big explosions, MADNESS. BRING IT TO ME!!
 
extide said:
I miss Quake 3 Arena / Unreal (Tournament) style shooters. Fast paced, lots of movement, in all 3 axis, lots of guns, big explosions, MADNESS. BRING IT TO ME!!
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I'd like to add I played Wolf 3d, the original, Doom I/II, Duke Nukem 3d (mod those con files!!), all the way through the first 3 quake's ALL of the Unreal/UT games, Tribes I (w/Shifter)/II/Ascend, etc. I miss those days. I am not a fan of the class based too-realistic shooters of today. I dont want to be an engineer/medic/sniper, I want to be able to carry all the guns and jump real high. I get that a lot of people DONT like that style of play, but I know there has to be enough other people who DO like that style of play for it is be popular if a modern title was released like that. I mean the closest modern game I have played to that style is Tribes Ascend, but it is a TRIBES game which isnt a bad thing in itself, I LOVED Tribes I w/Shifter, but it still isnt quite the Quake/Unreal style of full on action.
 
Merc1138 said:
WHOAH, don't blame RPG fans for this "progression" shit in FPS games these days. Hell, most RPG games I've seen over the past few years are hell bent on making character level, perks, etc. irrelevant via scaling "oh no, we can't let the lvl 1 newbie walk into the lvl 20 area, gotta dumb all the mobs down to player level so they don't get their ass kicked". While I liked skyrim as an overall game, the sad reality was that 90% of the character "progression" was completely irrelevant. I could choose to do something a different way in skyrim, but the most efficient route was simply running around smacking things in first person with a sword.

Heck, CNC4 is an RTS and tried that progression crap and it failed horribly.

If anything, this progression crap in FPS games seems to be nothing more than publishers forcing devs to include a system that encourages the player to not give up and move on to something else after a week.

I was an RPG fan long before I was ever a FPS fan(and I'm not particularly thrilled with the cookie cutter FPS offerings these days either), and I certainly don't like the idiotic "lets jam some rpg "progression" elements into the FPS games" garbage either.
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But the funny thing is that it works. And the CoD fnoobs love the shit out of it. I have friends who are always talking about their prestiges and where they're at in relation to one another. Every time they bring it up i ask them, "So what do you get out of that?"

They don't seem to make the connection though lol
 
ballistic90 said:
It's weird too, because she has a weird method of aiming with the analog sticks. She usually only lines up horizontal or vertical at a time (I'll admit incredibly quickly), and still manages to hit moving targets with auto aim off.
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That's funny you mention this--i've noticed it too when i watch pretty much anyone play FPS on console. You like up one, then strafe it into position lol

Often times, the FoV is so constricted that what your aiming at takes up 1/4 of your tv screen, so it really doesn't take that long to line up shots this way.
 
chockomonkey said:
That's funny you mention this--i've noticed it too when i watch pretty much anyone play FPS on console. You like up one, then strafe it into position lol

Often times, the FoV is so constricted that what your aiming at takes up 1/4 of your tv screen, so it really doesn't take that long to line up shots this way.
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Well no, she doesn't strafe into position, I'm talking about how she makes adjustment on a single axis on the right stick at a time when lining up a shot. Sure, she does it in less than a second, but it's still weird to me. Unless I'm lining up a difficult shot, I can use both sticks simultaneously to get my shot going where it needs to. But it works for her, so I don't complain.
 
extide said:
I'd like to add I played Wolf 3d, the original, Doom I/II, Duke Nukem 3d (mod those con files!!), all the way through the first 3 quake's.
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I sense an opportunity for a shameless plug here. Ever give Generations Arena for Q3 a try? :D
 
I find myself missing older games like BF1942 and Counter-Strike: Source as well as Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament.

I like that someone can jump into the game having never played it before and in a short amount of time, get a pretty good feel of what to do. The games had pretty simplistic UIs and simplistic objectives. BF1942 was great, you could go around in foot, use a vehicle, use a plane, etc but overall everything was still simple and intuitive, and the maps weren't overly complex.

In newer games I just feel like canon fodder for all the people who bought the Pay2Win DLC and/or have tons of upgrades due to having spent 9000+ hours in-game. The games tend to be complex to the point where it's difficult to really get good at them unless you are willing to invest significant time into them. It's not like oldschool UT or Q3 where you could knock a few beers back then join a late night instagib match for some quick fun.
 
GotNoRice said:
I find myself missing older games like BF1942 and Counter-Strike: Source as well as Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament.

I like that someone can jump into the game having never played it before and in a short amount of time, get a pretty good feel of what to do. The games had pretty simplistic UIs and simplistic objectives. BF1942 was great, you could go around in foot, use a vehicle, use a plane, etc but overall everything was still simple and intuitive, and the maps weren't overly complex.

In newer games I just feel like canon fodder for all the people who bought the Pay2Win DLC and/or have tons of upgrades due to having spent 9000+ hours in-game. The games tend to be complex to the point where it's difficult to really get good at them unless you are willing to invest significant time into them. It's not like oldschool UT or Q3 where you could knock a few beers back then join a late night instagib match for some quick fun.
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The lure of progression and having a new weapon that "newbs" can't use yet is a powerful draw for the new crop of FPS players.
 
Last FPS I really loved playing was Brothers In Arms series, had some neat innovations like squad, and tank control, and cover could be worn down like fences would be blown apart if you stayed there too long.
 
Why Quake 3 is more fun than pretty much any modern shooter (especially games like CoD, CS) STATS.

Stats make people into boring players having serious business rather than fun. No one wants to grenade jump or pipebomb hat anymore, it's all "no way, my K:D ratio will get screwed up unless I hide here and snipe someone in the next 30 minutes". :p

No one is a good FPS player. At least until they win at knife vs. sniper (and no backstab sneak, you have to start 500m out and stay in sight :D).
 
I agree, but he is part of the problem. He took Red Orchestra and tried to dumb it down and make it appeal to the CoD crowd. Which was a horrible idea and the main game suffered.

The result was RO1, with no marketing, based off a niche mod and being one of the first Steamworks titles had a larger player base 1 year after release than RO2 did.

If they have ignored the CoD player base and stuck to gritty realism people might still be playing RO2 for years to come.
 
I remember FPS games used to be fun now they are all boring, bullshit generic shooters that offers very little entertainment or value, and yes, everybody is now trying to copy CoD's lameness. What happened to FPS games like Quake and Half Life? Its a damn shame that nobody is producing "old school" FPS games anymore.
 
Arena Shooters and "Modern FPS" shooters are different games.

I like both, but they would be much better if
1. they weren't filled with hackers
2. they weren't filled with retards 3.
3. single player components were actually filled with good story writing
4. "ADS" is not the most difficult game mechanic.

Honestly though ,what I didn't like about old school FPS were the stupid puzzles. You had to go somehwere, find soething, and come back, it was just annoying.
 
John Vuong said:
I remember FPS games used to be fun now they are all boring, bullshit generic shooters that offers very little entertainment or value, and yes, everybody is now trying to copy CoD's lameness. What happened to FPS games like Quake and Half Life? Its a damn shame that nobody is producing "old school" FPS games anymore.
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Yes they do, just no one buys them.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
That's funny...because the skill gap between an Amazing CS player and a good one is absolutely huge. Where the gap between the above for any console shooter basically doesn't exist.
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I'm guessing you've never played a console shooter at a high level or you would know this isn't even close to being true.
 
Ironchef Chris Wok said:
4. "ADS" is not the most difficult game mechanic.
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If ADS = Aiming Down Sights, then that is something I don't think I can live without anymore. Otherwise the aiming is just too simplistic and dull. IMO.

Only exceptions for me might be Half Life 3 (though I wouldn't mind if they did add it in) and a new UT game.
 
rudy said:
This is wrong too, the slope started with counterstrike and ever since then each game has taken it to a new level and the previous games have complained and yes red orchestra is one of those noob games that was just part of the big fad. That is the irony of this all, its the pot calling the Kettle black. Gaming as an amazing high skilled fast intricate sport died the day CS was born, CS showed everyone that in reality leagues and competition are completely chained to the number of people playing a game, not to skill. And with the massive popularity of CS everyone started to see how they could lower the bar and do it better. Over the years the bar just got pushed down a little more. Some stupid devs like the CS devs could not understand that and lost their dominance.

What you have to say is the COD is just better at it than all the other games and the other game devs are just jealous that it wasn't them who put it together as well.
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You are so wrong it isn't even funny. CS skill levels are so diverse you can't put 20 people in the same server and not have one or two that are so much better than everyone else it makes the rage quit.

COD has taken skill out of the equation, and you can score really high without much skill at all.
 
DeathPrincess said:
That game was seriously terrible...and I bought 4 copies... But what kills it is that there's a grand total of some random guy and a sheep playing it online ever. :eek:
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Never played it, but heard it was an "arena" shooter like UT. People not playing online would kill it though.
 
I used to think that if you wanted to play FPS, you should be on a console, and if you wanted to play a good looking FPS, you played on a computer. Now I know you should be playing on the computer regardless of what you are playing.
 
bacon said:
You are so wrong it isn't even funny. CS skill levels are so diverse you can't put 20 people in the same server and not have one or two that are so much better than everyone else it makes the rage quit.

COD has taken skill out of the equation, and you can score really high without much skill at all.
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For some people skill in games = reaction time, jumping around whilst holding down a shoot key. Nothing wrong with those games but they're as basic as they get. CS itself is rather basic to. I've had fun with those types of games, the BF style, and the realistic style. All can be fun.

The whole "jumping three times = skill" argument is rather humorous. If you want a game with a steep learning curve, play Falcon 4/DCS and Supreme Commander.

I think the best part of this whole thread is that most people seem to gloss over the fact that the guy quoted in the OP has "CoDified" his own game. It is very ironic, and it is exactly why RO2 has almost zero players. Instead of sticking with a game style (gritty, hard, realistic, "unfair/balanced") he decided that RO2 needed an easy, mainstream mode. That is exactly the problem. Developers these days ruin previously good games/genres by trying to bring it to the mainstream. In Red Orchestra's case, it would never beat out CoD/BF because it is simply too difficult/different for the typical shooter player. So why bother? Either make an outright CoD clone, or make Red Orchestra.

Sadly, TWI tried to make both in one while releasing a buggy game while having terrible PR and they suffered for it. There is no real audience for the game; I hope they've learned from their mistakes. If not, they can continue making zombie games and hopefully the Darkest Hour crew will fill TWI's place with Festung Europa.
 
Skillz said:
Never played it, but heard it was an "arena" shooter like UT. People not playing online would kill it though.
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what is wrong with Nexiuz...

  • first of all, it's on the Cryengine...aka motion blur simulator. There seems to be motion blur on everything constantly, so moving at speed isn't advised. As soon as you start moving the screen is just a Vaseline blur. You can turn off all 90 levels of AA it looks ok, but the motion blur junk is still there, which of course, is great for a "fast paced shooter". :D
  • The weapons suck. Not only do the weapons suck, they all look pretty much identical and apart from the grenade launcher one are the same gun just firing faster or slower.
  • The characters all look the same. "Tron" rip-off is fine but not when every single character looks the damned same and no one has any personality. There's no Orbb or Harlequin, just...I can't even name a single character...
  • The game size is stupidly small... It's 8 players on lots of the maps.
  • No one plays it at all. Especially on the consoles where the servers have been taken offline.
  • You can get the game for free anyway... basically they Valve-d a free game (Valve always take free stuff and commercially release it, often worse than it started).
  • It's visually boring and has no personality. It's a bunch of levels, and a bunch of guns and a bunch of generic people. Also seems to run like crap for what's onscreen.
  • It has some features like random gameplay mods...but it just doesn't work somehow, plus lots of them don't really seem to have been balanced with play testing. :D
  • Everything else...
 
obs said:
I'm guessing you've never played a console shooter at a high level or you would know this isn't even close to being true.
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I have, it doesn't. Sorry. This is why you will never see widespread integration of PC shooter servers and Console servers. Because the console kiddies would just get destroyed by the PC players all day long. Sorry but a controller is just utterly inferior to a kb/mouse combo.
 
ServerKing said:
Serious Sam is one I can think of....
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That's almost too far in the other direction, though. I even thought so back in 2001 when the first one came out. I can't even remember when the last worthy mainstream game in the Quake/HL style of play was on shelves. Probably HL2:E2 itself, sadly.
 
Also, maybe I'm weird, but I thought HL2 DM was about the most fun multiplayer PC shooter experience in existence. Really sad to see it never took off that much, and that style of play has fallen away since.
 
DeathPrincess said:
  • first of all, it's on the Cryengine...aka motion blur simulator. There seems to be motion blur on everything constantly, so moving at speed isn't advised. As soon as you start moving the screen is just a Vaseline blur. You can turn off all 90 levels of AA it looks ok, but the motion blur junk is still there, which of course, is great for a "fast paced shooter". :D
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Isn't that a problem with implementation and not cryengine itself?
 
Nobody on COD can take a Quake player, but a Quake player can take a COD player with practice. Just my opinion on things.
 
Tudz said:
Isn't that a problem with implementation and not cryengine itself?
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I don't know, every Cryengine game ever has some degree of motion blurriness. As soon as stuff starts moving you can tell it's Cryengine. But the still shots look nice! :D
 
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