Cloud Imperium Games Spent $4M a Month in 2017 Developing Star Citizen

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    Tweaking things? Did you play the same open Alpha I did?
     
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  2. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am still waiting for a reply to the tracker I linked from another poster.

    Edit: the timeline for when CIG stopped doing refunds lines up pretty well with when they dropped below $20 million in funds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  3. Lizard Testes

    Lizard Testes Gawd

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    We’re you the guy that swore up and down it’d be released in 2015?
     
  4. Lizard Testes

    Lizard Testes Gawd

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    They said they’re gonna have 100 systems and they have 0.6?

    There’s like 70 professions they’ve promised that aren’t in the game at all?

    Are they even half done with the ships people have already bought?
     
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  5. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    So then every open beta has been a completely unready product right? Because most of them don't include much of the finished product. My point being, there is no way to actually know how far off they are unless you work there in a higher project management capacity.
     
  6. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't know, perhaps you could share some actual information rather than trying to make some tart response with absolutely no substance?
     
  7. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    Games take a while. Remember duke nukem forever took 15 years to polish the gem of a game that it was!
     
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  8. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    DNF only happened because Gearbox took what little bits of tech demos 3D Realms had, and just shoved them all together in an attempt to make a full game. The same will have to happen with Star Citizen if it is ever going to release.
     
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  9. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Going down + in flames =
     
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  10. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

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    People hate EA, but they would've had this done for 50M in under 2 years. They put games on the shelf.
    CIG should seek their expertise before the FBI kicks in the door for wire fraud.
     
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  11. luisxd

    luisxd n00b

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    imo this game's gonna be a one of the biggest dissapointments once it's released..
     
  12. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    It is what I worry about. I really want for this game but terrified it will get dumped and then some other company will buy it up and then just bandaid it together to sell and not follow up on it at all.

    My armchair opinion is they should have started smaller and then released expansions for ongoing funding so it would have left a better taste in peoples mouths.

    In the meantime I'll keep flying around in E:D lol.
     
  13. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

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    This got me thinking that actually one of the best things that could happen to Star Citizen is that it goes bust and an asian company buys the assets at a huge discount. Then they can right ship, stripping out bloat and unrealistic promises, and put in place real deadlines.
     
  14. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Its not an open beta though ...
     
  15. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    Exactly, it has more than some open betas and yet it is alpha... Yet somehow people are using what "isn't" in the alpha as a reason it is nowhere near done when they do not apply that same reason to other games...
     
  16. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    That isnt a positive given the context, spin it however you like.
     
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  17. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    It also isn't a negative. Again, people are assuming a lot of things based on no information to really support their claims. If the alpha currently has more functional components than many games that were in open beta with less and still were produced, then how is that a bad sign?
     
  18. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    That it is still in Alpha is a travesty.
    They had more time and (a ridiculous amount of) money than needed and now they are in trouble because they spent most of it while keeping development too slow.
    No excuses.
     
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  19. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    Is it? Is it a travesty? I hardly think so. Is it disappointing? Certainly.

    You assume they had more time than needed, but obviously not. Has anyone else produced a similarly large scoped project like this one? No. Seems like there is a huge market, and even AAA publishers have not attempted. Seems to suggest it is far more difficult than people seem to think.
     
  20. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    lol, ... ok.
     
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  21. Bawjaws

    Bawjaws Limp Gawd

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    So it would be fair to say that Roberts fucked up when he claimed this would ready for launch in 2014? Or 2016? Or whenever.
     
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  22. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wouldn't say it would be fair, I would say it is fact.
     
  23. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

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    People are throwing around Alpha and Beta like it means anything. The fact of the matter is they clearly don't have the funds left to finish the game regardless of what label they are currently slapping on it. Given CIGs track record it's extremely naive to think they have some magical nearly full scope "beta" build just hiding in the wings. (Which is what they would need to even have a chance of finishing the game before they burn the 46mil they just got.)
     
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  24. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think I got a Free star citizen ship with my R9-290.

    Can an R9-290 still even play this thing at decent framerates?
     
  25. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

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    As of ~a year ago my old 290 ran it fine.
     
  26. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I play at 1440p usually, so....I wonder :)
     
  27. DWolvin

    DWolvin [H]ard|Gawd

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    I would be interested to hear how it does there also- pre major client performance updates my 1080 could barely play 2560 x 1440, but after it was smooth in 3440 x 1440. I's think it would probably paly fine in Low settings (which still look pretty good), and might be able to pull medium depending on the amount of RAM. But I could be way off.
     
  28. Shotglass01

    Shotglass01 [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is what I wanted-

    Sc1.JPG

    This is what I got.

    Sc2.JPG

    Kind of looks like a pyramid. :cry:
     
  29. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Roberts is a well known entity. I used to feel sorry for the morons dropping more then 40 bucks his latest grift. At this point I don't feel sorry for any new suckers or the old suckers falling further in.

    At this point even if he does push out some semblance of an actual game... the morons that gave him 200 million in donations essentially just GAVE Roberts a studio worth millions. Of course when the whole thing crashes and burns as I have no doubt it will... it will be a good thing that Roberts has been paying insane salaries to all his family members, and paying insane rent to his property companies... and leasing tons of equipment for 3x what its worth from himself. This guys grifts haven't ever changed the only new dimension this time is regular gamers are the ones he is taking... and the donation nature of their investments likely make it less illegal then his previous bilking of investors.
     
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  30. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't understand how anyone can be optimistic at this point considering CIG has blown through $250 million and has what is basically a glorified buggy tech demo to show for it.

    At the current funding level, including the "marketing" money, they have at most 12-16 months to go from what they have now, to 2 full release games.
     
  31. Eymar

    Eymar Limp Gawd

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    ^ Yeah, ChadD put the truth down. What is the best case scenario right now? Being bought out (do they have to deal with backers)? Also is there proof CR is leasing from himself? Wouldn't surprise me, but if he did that is really good proof of his shadiness.
     
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  32. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    As soon as CR went back on the stretch goal of having financials be transparent, it was transparent something fishy was going on.
    I think CR saw the pile of money and realized if backers saw the cut he, his wife, and his brother were taking, everything would of come crashing down within a year or two.
     
  33. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well we know he has hired his family... and I doubt he is under paying them. lol
    I am assuming he is leasing property and equipment to himself. As those are both things his movie production scam where doing. All his movies where bankrolled by the same German movie investment fund... the guy that ran that business and a bunch of people from the banks that dealt with them and Roberts went to Prison in Germany. They took their investment money... and where borrowing against against captial investments bought with it to bring in bank money they where borrowing 100s of millions based on their initial investments. One of the schemes there was to lease themselves equipment. Bought with investments, leased for more then it was worth... and used as collateral (at the inflated leased price) to help secure more loans. I don't know if Roberts was just naive and thought all Movie production was equally shady. (which I don't know perhaps it is lol) or if he is just a willing shyster. I will grant him that he is to smart to have not known about what was going on. (he actually went to German investment drive meetings on many occasions... so I lean toward shyster).

    The leasing schemes where also one way the VIP Medienfonds guys where sending millions to their personal accounts. They would front load a leasing contract.... the front load amount would be enough to purchase the equipment or whatever it was they where leasing, then for 2-3 years they would take monthly payments to their numbered leasing company... registered in some BS tax haven.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  34. Eymar

    Eymar Limp Gawd

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    ^ I believe everything you wrote is true since it's public knowledge who is on payroll and the insane amount used on properties for workforce. The leasing part is a scam if he is doing it, but he hasn't been caught yet so get's a very small benefit of doubt. Really wouldn't be surprised if true though the more I read about the guy. He doesn't set out to be a con man, but has no problem doing con man type scams. Probably in his mind it amounts the same as retail store mark up from their wholesale price.
     
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  35. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Self leasing is actually a pretty common tax avoidance scheme used my a lot of companies depending on the jurisdiction. (the big tech companies all use a variation where they licence the rights to their own logos and other IP which they sell for a buck to their numbered shelter company on the isle of mann) I have no doubt almost all game developers lease themselves their equipment. I just suspect Roberts likely inflates the values, and charges as many extra fees as he can get away with. You can legally claim depreciation, repairs, insurance... and "administrative costs" in most places. So my bet would be all of cloud imps hardware is overvalued by a magnitude, and his leasing corp likely hires himself or his wife or brother on paper to perform repairs ect. lol

    No matter how there doing it... ya I'm sure they are siphoning large chunks of cash away. When it goes under he'll still have however many millions he paid himself for services rendered. And I doubt he'll pay taxes on any of it to boot.

    PS... what I'm talking about is basically the same thing the current US president got outed for doing with his Building maintenance company for years. Leasing himself boilers and other large equipment, inflating the costs of such items 10 fold to avoid ever paying taxes. Really there isn't anything specifically illegal about it. Its just a douchy tax loop hole that also functions as a money laundering device.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  36. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am willing to bet when CIG goes down, CR is going to be on the receiving end of at least a couple lawsuits given all the lies he has told about the progress of the game and CIG financial stability.
     
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  37. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Your logic has more holes than a mountain of swiss cheese. What other games have is irrelevant. What the game has vs what they promised is what matters. Based on that they are nowhere near done with the game and have a very, very long way to go. If they had significantly more done than what is in the current alpha branch they would be screaming about it from the rooftops and making sure every single person knew. The fact that they constantly miss every single deadline they give and constantly fall short of promised features in alpha builds speaks volumes about how little extra is complete beyond those builds. Any major piece of content beyond the alphas is likely in a very incomplete state, to the point where they don't even want to show it to the backers yet. CIG loves to pat themselves on the back when they get something to a state where it can be shown to backers, anything major is a way for them to "prove" that progress is happening to draw in more funding.
     
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  38. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't understand the "more content" statements. You can play skyrim, gta V, or fallout 4, etc... and have a ton of content to explore/discover, SC has what, a space station, space, and empty planets? CR says all of skyrim can fit in a crater on a moon (planet?) And yet there is nothing to do on that moon.
     
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  39. Sycraft

    Sycraft [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ya Dunkey put it pretty well in his No Man's Sky review (he also talks about the same kind of idea in his Banjo Kazooie review). Basically that more is not better. There's only so much interesting shit you can put in a game and the bigger the world is, the most that gets spread out. There is something to be said for a game where everything was designed and has a purpose. Just trying to sell a game as good because of the scale of the world is meaningless. I mean hell, Frontier Elite 2 from 1993 fit on a single floppy and has over 500 million star systems, each which can have planets and space stations that you can land on... however for all that it is very empty, because it does it via procedural generation so it is literally almost all just random stuff.
     
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  40. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    After spending $250 million and 7 years, they should have the enter foundation of the game implemented and working correctly and really just working on fleshing out the game right now. That's what I can't understand about people who are still defending or think any actual game will be released, the fact that they aren't even close to having core gameplay mechanics finished should have everyone running away from this train wreck.
     
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