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mothman

Supreme [H]ardness
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Nimisys was given the opportunity to present his case claiming I sent him a motherboard that didn't function. That thread served to Defame. Vilify, Slander, Demean, Belittle and generally trash my good name that I've worked hard for years to uphold and maintain with 213 successful transactions and zero problems with any member in that time. http://www.heatware.com/u/77136/to

In presenting my case here now I will provide the most compelling evidence to date that I would not, could not and did not send Nimisys a motherboard that was anything other than Working Perfectly, In Excellent, Undamaged Physical condition, Packaged with care and Priority Mailed to him.

I'll start with the very first quote in his thread "
Bought a used Asus Motherboard from Mothman on October 27th, paid via PayPal. Board was shipped that day. Board arrived in an Anti-Static Bag, in a different an OEM mobo box (for a different board, but not a real issue) packed with local papers within a Flat Rate box on October 29th. No shipping damage was noted, no obvious visual faults were seen with the board at that time. a PM was sent to Mothman to inform him the package arrived and looked good and that i would let him know how it went. So far nothing to complain about. "

"No shipping damage", "No obvious visual faults were seen with the board at that time", " Looked good"
It wasn't until NINE DAYS later that he reported 'A Problem" keep this in mind because it's during these nine days and the unknown conditions the board was subject to that I maintain the traces were damaged rendering the motherboard inoperative.

Now I will offer the most compelling evidence that what I present next is the only logical explanation for how the damage occurred.

https://i.imgur.com/tiIsaaF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yazGAWk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Tr7euvO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0a4I3Vg.jpg

I don't know how to directly link the images but the above is the documentation of my opening the board upon receipt from Nimisys and discovering the damaged traces. Notice how blatantly obvious these damaged traces are. I maintain that it would have been impossible for nimisys not to have noticed these
immediately during his initial inspection of the board, IF THEY INDEED WERE THERE AT THAT TIME ON OCTOBER 29.

After observing the damaged traces I informed Nimisys of this and that I was afraid to further test the board as I did not want to risk damaging my gear. Well after the thrashing I received in his thread I decided there was nothing left for me to loose and I have indeed re-installed the board in the original case with the original peripherals except for the i5-3470 I had to purchase for this test. This rig served me well for many weeks without issue.

I photo documented every step of the assembly and result of the test. I attached notes to the pictures with my observations and the process should be self explanatory. I'll link the photos and then give a brief synopsis of my findings: Also I included a couple pics of my current rig to show that I am indeed a competent, professional, meticulous builder of many fine PC's

https://i.imgur.com/Yc11kXy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CeMDUI6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S2ZILRv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gme95nf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TdiSnvB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eauMfKF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j9ynoPY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QmBkJvx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zEmhggk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1Aee3tX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/n3kCJMp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9TZXxOe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qsnvpai.jpg

My most important finding was evidence of how the traces were damaged while in nimisys possession. As I have discovered over the years of building PC's,different ATX cases although spec'd the same, motherboards and I/O shields may not line up the same way and care must be taken not to force the motherboard into position with the I/O shield. In this case I found evidence that the I/O shield prongs were bent/aligned in a way that required just such a jamming and pushing force. Note that this force would have been applied directly over the location of the cases motherboard stand-off and the exact location of the damaged traces. When I initially installed the I/O shield and placed the motherboard down to slide it in it immediately hung up on those bent prongs, which are located right between the VGA and DVI outs and would have required that downward, jamming, pushing force to get the board under the prongs. I stopped immediately, noticing the alignment problem I properly adjusted the I/O shield prongs after which the motherboard slipped in effortlessly.

Now my final observation and conclusion: Based on the extent of the damaged traces and telling ninisys that those alone would cause the motherboard to not power up, this is exactly what happened when I attempted to power up the installed motherboard. Upon pressing the power button an audible click is heard and then nothing. This is a sure sign that the motherboard self diagnostic immediately found a dead short and I am certain could only be caused by the damaged traces.



 
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Even if this is all 100% factually correct it still shows that you just don't get it. Your "sorry about your luck but shove it up your ass" attitude was and still is the issue. That is the reason you were "thrashed" in the other thread. If your response to you buyer and to those in a public forum were as calm and professional as this one then we all would have arrived at a very different conclusion. It's not this buyer that has damaged your reputation, it is you.

Let it go man.
 
bigddybn said:
Even if this is all 100% factually correct it still shows that you just don't get it. Your "sorry about your luck but shove it up your ass" attitude was and still is the issue. That is the reason you were "thrashed" in the other thread. If your response to you buyer and to those in a public forum were as calm and professional as this one then we all would have arrived at a very different conclusion. It's not this buyer that has damaged your reputation, it is you.

Let it go man.
Click to expand...

I'd advise you sir to re-read the entire nimisys thread. I actually had no idea what could cause his problem as at that time I only new that I sent him a board that worked perfectly and I never engaged in any character assassination of nimisys, never called him names as you would suggest with the 'Shove it up you ass' comment. You are dammed correct that I was mad as hell at the unfounded, unkind, slanderous, demeaning comments you pompous members here leveled at me, none of you know me.
 
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Next time I sell something, (video card for example) I will require the buyer to come to my house, test it, power down the machine and remove it themselves. This is ridiculous.

FWIW I believe something happened on the buyers end when handling or installing the mobo, and maybe he was unaware.
 
url
bigstock-Digging-Hole-68572657.jpg
 
didn't you already refund him $70?...honestly the more you post trying to defend your reputation the worse you are making yourself look...just move on and do another 213 positive transactions...don't let one bad one continue to weigh on you
 
mothman said:
I'd advise you sir to re-read the entire nimisys thread. I actually had no idea what could cause his problem as at that time I only new that I sent him a board that worked perfectly and I never engaged in any character assassination of nimisys as you would suggest with the 'Shove it up you ass' comment. You are dammed correct that I was mad as hell at the unfounded, unkind, slanderous, demeaning comments members here leveled at me, none of you know me.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you that it seems likely that he (unknowingly) caused that damage you were not aware of it until you had the board in hand. When he came to you, politely telling you he was having problems and trying to find the source you gave him a nasty attitude. Instead of talking with him, trying to help pin down the problem and find out what happened between it leaving your hands and that day you jump to "you broke it" with no proof. Your attitude through the entire exchange was confrontational and accusatory. Every time he talked about his troubleshooting steps, making sure to assure you that he isn't accusing you of knowingly sending a DOA board, you gave him a nasty, accusatory, attitude. At no point in the transaction did you act like someone with a 213 positive Heat rating. And when it came to the thread you doubled down on your nasty attitude and attacked anyone that wasn't on your side, regardless of how they worded their statements. You have every right to be mad, but you if you value your reputation you should never vent that anger publicly. If your posts had been like the one you made in the OP, calm and reasoned, people wouldn't have gained a negative opinion of you. The damage to your reputation was caused by you and your actions. Your actions were more in line with the kind of shady trader you accused Nimisys of being while he came off as polite, calm, and reasonable in all of his posts. Your actions caused him to escalate the problem to the point where he posted a thread here. If you had acted in good faith this either wouldn't have happened or more people would have been on your side. You are right, we don't know you. That means we can only go off of what you post to gauge what kind of person you are. In the end, you are probably right about the cause of the problem, but your attitude caused this outcome. In the future, remember that even if you think the buyer broke something to remain calm and reasonable. Work with them until the situation becomes clear and go from there. Don't give a bad attitude from the first moment there is a problem. It sucks that you are out $70 (and the cost of buying a CPU to test the board with) for what was likely user error on the buyer's part, but your attitude and words left people doubting you and siding with the party that was acting far more calm and reasonably. You let your emotions control your reactions and got more and more heated as time went.
 
mothman said:
I'd advise you sir to re-read the entire nimisys thread. I actually had no idea what could cause his problem as at that time I only new that I sent him a board that worked perfectly and I never engaged in any character assassination of nimisys, never called him names as you would suggest with the 'Shove it up you ass' comment. You are dammed correct that I was mad as hell at the unfounded, unkind, slanderous, demeaning comments you pompous members here leveled at me, none of you know me.
Click to expand...

Everyone has read it and has come to the same conclusion that it is YOU with the problem. The way you responded to him without assisting him from the start telling him it's his issue. You have no proof it was working. You could have damaged it when you removed it yourself. But like we all told you, you have no proof. Plus, you are very immature and you continue to waste peoples time here with these posts.

I really hope you get banned.
 
auntjemima said:
I don't really think it matters what attitude he gave in the previous thread. Nymsis damaged the board and that's that. Simple and concrete.
Click to expand...

And you have no proof of that as the seller never had proof he didn't damage it himself.
 
I have a lot of experience professionally in the IT and electronics industry including component level board repair.
Looking at the pics of that board, it was abused, no other way to say it.

Mothman's feedback over a long while does mean something, he's not shipping junk to people. It also means he's
had some experience with electronics and is not making newbie mistakes like destroying mobos.

People are jumping on you for your attitude Mothman, but honestly I'd be pissed at this situation too.
The "fu" PMs have to stop though, you can't do that.

As for the buyer, I'm sure he knows if he had to struggle to install the mobo or not. I get the impression he's not
telling the whole story of his experience with the mobo.

I'm about 99.9% sure Mothman got hosed on this deal.

Unfortunately, you as a seller are always going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to selling electronics or
anything else that depends on the competence of the buyer in it's usage.


.
 
NIZMOZ said:
Everyone has read it and has come to the same conclusion that it is YOU with the problem. The way you responded to him without assisting him from the start telling him it's his issue. You have no proof it was working. You could have damaged it when you removed it yourself. But like we all told you, you have no proof. Plus, you are very immature and you continue to waste peoples time here with these posts.

I really hope you get banned.
Click to expand...

You are the worst offender of all and the one that if I could say a lot more to I certainly would. Your pompous, holier than thou attitude is what really contributes to making forums like this so miserable. You have freely and without restraint assailed my character to the point that no reasonable person would tolerate it. As far as the issue at hand I have provided all of he necessary proof that I did not damage my own motherboard, why and how you could conclude otherwise is beyond me. As I am here to defend my good name, and have no fear of people like you in doing so, could it be that you don't possess the humility and courage to admit you are wrong ? I too hope there will come a day for your reckoning NIZMOZ. Also as you have done nothing but assault me I would appreciate if you would refrain from any further comment in this matter. You have said enough already. Also I sent the PM out of anger and shear frustration at your attack on me and for that only I am man enough to apologize.
 
mothman said:
You are the worst offender of all and the one that if I could say a lot more to I certainly would. Your pompous, holier than thou attitude is what really contributes to making forums like this so miserable. You have freely and without restraint assailed my character to the point that no reasonable person would tolerate it. As far as the issue at hand I have provided all of he necessary proof that I did not damage my own motherboard, why and how you could conclude otherwise is beyond me. As I am here to defend my good name, and have no fear of people like you in doing so, could it be that you don't possess the humility and courage to admit you are wrong ? I too hope there will come a day for your reckoning NIZMOZ. Also as you have done nothing but assault me I would appreciate if you would refrain from any further comment in this matter. You have said enough already. Also I sent the PM out of anger and shear frustration at your attack on me and for that only I am man enough to apologize.
Click to expand...

Because I don't agree with you? LOL! I have done nothing different than others here trying to help the situation, but because I wasn't on your side, you attacked me.

1. You have no pictures or proof that it wasn't damaged before you shipped it.
2. Buyer went above and beyond buying a CPU, a powersupply, going to a school and using their hardware to test his stuff to verify it wasn't bad. Most buyers would not go that far.
3. You were obnoxious in your responses to him while he was polite from the start. He has a long standing history here and you have 213 Heatware feedbacks that are positive. But it only takes 1 bad situation to make that go away which you have done to yourself with all these immature responses.

I could keep going, but I am not. You have proven to everyone how immature you continue to be. I am only stating the facts as I see it and as I see it now, you are hurting your reputation more, and sending PMs to people like that is uncalled for. Like others have noticed, anyone that doesn't side with you, you attack. And you are doing it again to me.

I've been in IT for 25 years, and can say the board was damaged by handling it roughly. It could have happened from you, or the buyer. Either way, that is why you both came to an agreement and it was settled (so we thought). You continue to make a big deal out of it.
 
You guys need to lighten up on Mothman a bit.

Yes, he's raging but he got screwed so.....

Mothman, you lost on this one, but just let it go.
It's better to let go of the stress and just forget it.

Just be glad it wasn't for a lot more money.


.
 
NIZMOZ said:
Because I don't agree with you? LOL! I have done nothing different than others here trying to help the situation, but because I wasn't on your side, you attacked me.

1. You have no pictures or proof that it wasn't damaged before you shipped it.
2. Buyer went above and beyond buying a CPU, a powersupply, going to a school and using their hardware to test his stuff to verify it wasn't bad. Most buyers would not go that far.
3. You were obnoxious in your responses to him while he was polite from the start. He has a long standing history here and you have 213 Heatware feedbacks that are positive. But it only takes 1 bad situation to make that go away which you have done to yourself with all these immature responses.

I could keep going, but I am not. You have proven to everyone how immature you continue to be. I am only stating the facts as I see it and as I see it now, you are hurting your reputation more, and sending PMs to people like that is uncalled for. Like others have noticed, anyone that doesn't side with you, you attack. And you are doing it again to me.

I've been in IT for 25 years, and can say the board was damaged by handling it roughly. It could have happened from you, or the buyer. Either way, that is why you both came to an agreement and it was settled (so we thought). You continue to make a big deal out of it.
Click to expand...

I have been unfairly characterized as the villain here and will continue to defend my honor and integrity. As far as the parts Nimisys bought I'm sure he had receipts and could have easily returned them or at least he can continue to use them. I bought the i5-3470 to make my test here on [H] which I can't return and all I have to show for all my efforts is a trashed motherboard and a -$70 Paypal account. Also NIZMOZ you act as though you have something at stake in this matter when it's really none of your business to begin with. also as you still maintain that I damaged my own motherboard I have provided more than enough evidence of my expertise in the art of PC building and have demonstrated that I am not one of your ham handed, sausage fingered, dorito eating types that would force a motherboard into place risking certain damage.
 
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mothman said:
I have been unfairly characterized as the villain here and will continue to defend my honor and integrity. As far as the parts Nimisys bought I'm sure he had receipts and could have easily returned them or at least he can continue to use them. I bought the i5-3470 to make my test here on [H] which I can't return and all I have to show for all my efforts is a trashed motherboard and a -$70 Paypal account. Also NIZMOZ you act as though you have something at stake in this matter when it's really none of your business to begin with.
Click to expand...

don't you see what the issue is?...the board was damaged and there's no proof either way on who damaged it...buyer would have won his PayPal case so you actually came away with more then you would have...there's no way of defending your honor and integrity at this point except through your words and actions...you can scream all day that you have 213 positive Heatware transactions but in the end it doesn't matter in this 1 case...move on from this and don't let one bad transaction effect you going forward...
 
Mothman, clean the damaged areas on the bottom of the mobo with a clean rag and some alcohol.
See if you can then find any breaks in the traces.

Sometimes the damage isn't as bad as it looks.

.
 
polonyc2 said:
don't you see what the issue is?...the board was damaged and there's no proof either way on who damaged it...buyer would have won his PayPal case so you actually came away with more then you would have...there's no way of defending your honor and integrity at this point except through your words and actions...you can scream all day that you have 213 positive Heatware transactions but in the end it doesn't matter in this 1 case...move on from this and don't let one bad transaction effect you going forward...
Click to expand...

You are wrong. I want the truth to be known, which was lost in the nimisys thread fiasco.
 
mothman said:
I have been unfairly characterized as the villain here and will continue to defend my honor and integrity. As far as the parts Nimisys bought I'm sure he had receipts and could have easily returned them or at least he can continue to use them. I bought the i5-3470 to make my test here on [H] which I can't return and all I have to show for all my efforts is a trashed motherboard and a -$70 Paypal account. Also NIZMOZ you act as though you have something at stake in this matter when it's really none of your business to begin with. also as you still maintain that I damaged my own motherboard I have provided more than enough evidence of my expertise in the art of PC building and have demonstrated that I am not one of your ham handed, sausage fingered, dorito eating types that would force a motherboard into place risking certain damage.
Click to expand...

Spartacus said:
Mothman, clean the damaged areas on the bottom of the mobo with a clean rag and some alcohol.
See if you can then find any breaks in the traces.

Sometimes the damage isn't as bad as it looks.
Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't check my test results. The board would not accept power because of the dead short in the damaged traces. I examined the damaged traces with a 20x magnifier where two appeared to be cut and touching, hence shorting. I actually was hoping she'd fire right back up, I loved that little mobo.
 
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Spartacus said:
I have a lot of experience professionally in the IT and electronics industry including component level board repair.
Looking at the pics of that board, it was abused, no other way to say it.

Mothman's feedback over a long while does mean something, he's not shipping junk to people. It also means he's
had some experience with electronics and is not making newbie mistakes like destroying mobos.

People are jumping on you for your attitude Mothman, but honestly I'd be pissed at this situation too.
The "fu" PMs have to stop though, you can't do that.

As for the buyer, I'm sure he knows if he had to struggle to install the mobo or not. I get the impression he's not
telling the whole story of his experience with the mobo.

I'm about 99.9% sure Mothman got hosed on this deal.

Unfortunately, you as a seller are always going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to selling electronics or
anything else that depends on the competence of the buyer in it's usage.


.
Click to expand...

polonyc2 said:
don't you see what the issue is?...the board was damaged and there's no proof either way on who damaged it...buyer would have won his PayPal case so you actually came away with more then you would have...there's no way of defending your honor and integrity at this point except through your words and actions...you can scream all day that you have 213 positive Heatware transactions but in the end it doesn't matter in this 1 case...move on from this and don't let one bad transaction effect you going forward...
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up. Even if you're right you're wrong if the buyer says so. At least it's "only" $70 or so. Could have been much worse. But it's probably about time to move on. I'll still buy from mothman in the future.
 
I have a Ton of positive heatware and sold to a user with no heatware whatsoever. Here's what I did:

I remember selling some user an MSI X99 sli plus motherboard for $120 including shipping. He paid via Paypal. The motherboard was mint, and I shipped it to him. A couple days after he got the motherboard, he messaged me saying that the motherboard didn't post whatsoever. So I apologized for the DOA motherboard even though I knew it worked when I sent it since anything could've happened when I powered down the motherboard or during shipping. So I paid to have the motherboard shipped to me.

I got back the motherboard and it had some bent pins that were very obvious. I sent the user a message stating that I found some bent pins which were the cause of the post issues but said I can only give a refund in the amount paid to me from PayPal and wouldn't pay for the extra shipping since I wasn't sure who damaged the pins.

The 2nd paragraph is how you should've handled it. The 3rd would've been up to you. But in this case, PayPal would've given him the refund anyways since he can prove that he sent it back to you. So the 3rd paragraph is how you should've handled it as well, and moved on without the original buyer making a thread on your name.

Even if he did damage your board, which is likely, I still wouldn't buy from you entirely based on the initial attitude. How would you feel if Amazon sold you some goods that they knew were working but you got it and it didn't work and you contacted them and they said FU?
 
mothman said:
I have been unfairly characterized as the villain here and will continue to defend my honor and integrity. As far as the parts Nimisys bought I'm sure he had receipts and could have easily returned them or at least he can continue to use them. I bought the i5-3470 to make my test here on [H] which I can't return and all I have to show for all my efforts is a trashed motherboard and a -$70 Paypal account. Also NIZMOZ you act as though you have something at stake in this matter when it's really none of your business to begin with. also as you still maintain that I damaged my own motherboard I have provided more than enough evidence of my expertise in the art of PC building and have demonstrated that I am not one of your ham handed, sausage fingered, dorito eating types that would force a motherboard into place risking certain damage.
Click to expand...

Last I checked, you post to the public here, it makes it everyones business.
 
mothman said:
Maybe you didn't check my test results. The board would not accept power because of the dead short in the damaged traces. I examined the damaged traces with a 20x magnifier where two appeared to be cut and touching, hence shorting. I actually was hoping she'd fire right back up, I loved that little mobo.
Click to expand...


I read what you posted. Maybe you didn't read what I posted about having done board repair professionally.
I've repaired many boards with dime sized holes charred right through the board (from a power transistor meltdown).

Shorted and damaged traces can be easily fixed.

The first step is to clean the board, that can remove the smeared copper between the traces.
More stubborn shorts can be removed carefully with a needle.

Cut traces can be fixed by bridging the cut with a single hair thin strand of wire soldered in place.
In more difficult cases, you can run a wire.

If the damage went through more than the top layer, the board might be toast though.


.
 
Thanks Spartacus, I misunderstood you. I'll try some more when the dust settles a bit.
 
I don't disbelieve your side of the story - I don't think either side set out to deceive the other, nor do I believe that either side really knows what really happened with any certainty. What I do know is that your attitude has been poor, you've been childish, and because of what I've seen from you, I have added you to my DNT list. Let it go, and move on already.
 
Mothman - I think you did the best you could in the face of an uncalled witch hunt. So many in this (and the other thread) hide under the veil of rationalizations when the buyer was clearly at fault.
What really surprises me is that Nimisys was not placed on the DNT list as a result of his actions.
 
auntjemima said:
I don't really think it matters what attitude he gave in the previous thread. Nymsis damaged the board and that's that. Simple and concrete.
Click to expand...

It's anything but simple and concrete. There hasn't been enough information given to draw an unbiased conclusion - the seller could've also damaged the board while removing to package and ship.
 
Mav451 said:
Mothman - I think you did the best you could in the face of an uncalled witch hunt. So many in this (and the other thread) hide under the veil of rationalizations when the buyer was clearly at fault.
What really surprises me is that Nimisys was not placed on the DNT list as a result of his actions.
Click to expand...

But, which has been mentioned, you don't know that the buyer is at fault. There is no proof of that.
 
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