CLC vs Air Cooler vs AIO for 10850K Perf\Longetivity Ratio?

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
325
Hi guys, I can't seem to get a good answer here.

Situation: I want to hit 5.0 flat, all cores on my 10850K. I've always used air coolers. My last build which still runs today was an i7-930. Built and cooled first by a Scythe Mugen 2 in 2010. Upgraded cooler to Silver Arrow SB-E in 2013 and that Silver Arrow is still running in 2020. 7 Years

I just upgraded to a 10850K a week ago and it's thought me one thing, upgrading CPUs is expensive if you want a beefier build. I don't want to do any upgrades till maybe 6 years? I'm just a dude that likes to play video games at 4K and 4K3D and do video editing when i can. thats at most what I do. I am not an overclocker pushing for highest bench scores.


Right now, I have an NH-14 running on the CPU which does a good job with my auto OC settings. I planning on when I get time hopefully this weekend to manually tune my OC so that it doesn't run 4.8Ghz at 1.36V which is ridiculous for all cores. Temps playing video game is 45 to 55C with this auto boosting and overvolting. Prime95AVX2 is 105C. Blender and the rest that use AVX are 95C to 100C. But again, this is with auto OC which the Asrock Taichi Z490 overcompensates in.

Do I need a CLC or can I go with a DH-15 for my usage. My case is the Phanteks 500a RGB which has good airflow. Right now, I have ordered DH-15 and an Arctic Liquid Freezer Ii 360 along with the NH-14 which is my temp cooler.

I hear CLCs have a short life span. Do I really need a hybrid cooler? I WILL NOT DO A FULL WATER LOOP. Or would it be better to go with an AIO like the Bequiet Pure Loop, or should I be good with a DH-15?
Again I don't want to have to buy a new cooler in 2 to 4 years. I only upgrade my CPU when I find that my games no longer run optimally at 4K.

Thanks
 

Spartacus09

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
1,783
I have the AFII 360 its pretty much the best performing on the market for the noise due to its thicker radiator and vrm fan. I expect/plan on it to last 5+ years installed properly. AIOs get slightly better temps and are more aesthetically pleasing (in my opinion) provided you have a place to mount the rad vs the bulky dh-15. A DH-15 will last much longer (and you just have to replace the fans for any failures), cost less, but be very bulky inside the case and heatsoak much quicker.

Frankly both are good options if you can fit them and they are within about 5c of each other, its which do you prefer for your situation, aesthetic, and if you have room for a radiator. I wanted max performance without going custom loop so thats why I chose the AF II, additionally I generally have medium spikes of cpu usage rather than long continuous workloads so the AIO worked better for me in that regard.

Here’s a chart with the AF II 240 and the dh-15 at the same noise level, temps of the 360 is slightly lower than that.
1610071350434.png


and here are the numbers at 100% fan speed:
1610072146904.png
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
25,502
what you want and what you get may be two different things but go big aio or custom.
 

doyll

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
1,341
Hi guys, I can't seem to get a good answer here.

Situation: I want to hit 5.0 flat, all cores on my 10850K. I've always used air coolers. My last build which still runs today was an i7-930. Built and cooled first by a Scythe Mugen 2 in 2010. Upgraded cooler to Silver Arrow SB-E in 2013 and that Silver Arrow is still running in 2020. 7 Years

I just upgraded to a 10850K a week ago and it's thought me one thing, upgrading CPUs is expensive if you want a beefier build. I don't want to do any upgrades till maybe 6 years? I'm just a dude that likes to play video games at 4K and 4K3D and do video editing when i can. thats at most what I do. I am not an overclocker pushing for highest bench scores.


Right now, I have an NH-14 running on the CPU which does a good job with my auto OC settings. I planning on when I get time hopefully this weekend to manually tune my OC so that it doesn't run 4.8Ghz at 1.36V which is ridiculous for all cores. Temps playing video game is 45 to 55C with this auto boosting and overvolting. Prime95AVX2 is 105C. Blender and the rest that use AVX are 95C to 100C. But again, this is with auto OC which the Asrock Taichi Z490 overcompensates in.

Do I need a CLC or can I go with a DH-15 for my usage. My case is the Phanteks 500a RGB which has good airflow. Right now, I have ordered DH-15 and an Arctic Liquid Freezer Ii 360 along with the NH-14 which is my temp cooler.

I hear CLCs have a short life span. Do I really need a hybrid cooler? I WILL NOT DO A FULL WATER LOOP. Or would it be better to go with an AIO like the Bequiet Pure Loop, or should I be good with a DH-15?
Again I don't want to have to buy a new cooler in 2 to 4 years. I only upgrade my CPU when I find that my games no longer run optimally at 4K.
Silver Arrow SB-E and newer versions are all some of the best coolers out there.

What case are you using and what is your case fan setup do you have with your 10850K? 10850 under top tier air cooler in case with airflow setup properly will cool no problems. Just let me know if you would like I can post link to airflow and optimizing case airflow and I will gladls help you pick and setup cooling system.
 

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
325
Silver Arrow SB-E and newer versions are all some of the best coolers out there.

What case are you using and what is your case fan setup do you have with your 10850K? 10850 under top tier air cooler in case with airflow setup properly will cool no problems. Just let me know if you would like I can post link to airflow and optimizing case airflow and I will gladls help you pick and setup cooling system.
doyll Phanteks P500a RGB is my case so it uses it's stock 3 RGB fans. I had no idea Silver Arrow made air coolers still. I've never seen any of their coolers in any of the reviews I've looked at. Nobody has mentioned them at all to me.
I have the AFII 360 its pretty much the best performing on the market for the noise due to its thicker radiator and vrm fan. I expect/plan on it to last 5+ years installed properly. AIOs get slightly better temps and are more aesthetically pleasing (in my opinion) provided you have a place to mount the rad vs the bulky dh-15. A DH-15 will last much longer (and you just have to replace the fans for any failures), cost less, but be very bulky inside the case and heatsoak much quicker.

Frankly both are good options if you can fit them and they are within about 5c of each other, its which do you prefer for your situation, aesthetic, and if you have room for a radiator. I wanted max performance without going custom loop so thats why I chose the AF II, additionally I generally have medium spikes of cpu usage rather than long continuous workloads so the AIO worked better for me in that regard.

Here’s a chart with the AF II 240 and the dh-15 at the same noise level, temps of the 360 is slightly lower than that.
View attachment 316977

and here are the numbers at 100% fan speed:View attachment 316980
Spartacus09 Yeah that's why I orederd the 360MM version of it. But the longetivity started eating away at me. The fact you only get 2 year warranty. The fact that the company is foreign and that it can take them some time to respond to questions. I know because I asked them a couple of questions and they took their sweet time. And their system doesn't even recognize my name correctly when I type it in.. TWICE now. ALl these things have made me uneasy.

I have also placed an order for the EK 360 dRGB AIO which apparently has a refill port? As opposed to the AFII which is completely CLC. And the EK comes with 5 year warranty.

I think I'll take some time this weekend to attempt overclocking my 10850K manually on air to see first if it can even hit 5.0 all cores. Then see what the temps are like. That will give me an indication of what cooler to go with. But yeah the hybrid thing worries me

It seems the Phanteks 500a RGB which I have can fit almost anything. I know it can tightly fit the thick AFII.
 

doyll

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
1,341
doyll Phanteks P500a RGB is my case so it uses it's stock 3 RGB fans. I had no idea Silver Arrow made air coolers still. I've never seen any of their coolers in any of the reviews I've looked at. Nobody has mentioned them at all to me.
Case comes with PH-F120SK D-RGB PWM fans rated 9.96mmH2O@1500rpm (full speed). 1.0mmH2O @ 1000rpm is just enough to overcome grill and filter. Simply put, they are probably not good enough fans to give you good airflow. If it was me I would probably get 3x 140mm fans with about 1.3-1.5mmH2O @ 1300-1500rpm for front intakes, block all openings in front half of case not covered by those intake fans so air they push into case has to flow on through case adn out back. I would also remove all back PCIe slot covers to increase vent area in back. I know the covers are vented, but they still block about 60-70% of airflow compared to open holes.

Silver Arrow coolers are made by Thermalrgiht. Current models are Silver Arrow IB-E Extremem Rev.B, Silver Arrow T8, Silver Arrow 130 and Silver Arrow TR4.
http://thermalright.com/product-category/products/heatsink/dual-towers/
 

Spartacus09

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
1,783
Wait I missed that, you have the Phanteks 500a?
You could possibly fit the Arctic Freezer II 420 in the front of that (in case you weren't aware they had made an even bigger one :D)
That said the 360 cools my 9900k extremely well up to 5.2Ghz so it should be fine for your 10850k.
 
Last edited:

edo101

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
325
Case comes with PH-F120SK D-RGB PWM fans rated 9.96mmH2O@1500rpm (full speed). 1.0mmH2O @ 1000rpm is just enough to overcome grill and filter. Simply put, they are probably not good enough fans to give you good airflow. If it was me I would probably get 3x 140mm fans with about 1.3-1.5mmH2O @ 1300-1500rpm for front intakes, block all openings in front half of case not covered by those intake fans so air they push into case has to flow on through case adn out back. I would also remove all back PCIe slot covers to increase vent area in back. I know the covers are vented, but they still block about 60-70% of airflow compared to open holes.

Silver Arrow coolers are made by Thermalrgiht. Current models are Silver Arrow IB-E Extremem Rev.B, Silver Arrow T8, Silver Arrow 130 and Silver Arrow TR4.
http://thermalright.com/product-category/products/heatsink/dual-towers/
Damn, more money to spend to get better airflow. I do appreciate the help man. You guys are breathtaking.

Ok say I want to get better airflow fans.... How would I find these H2O ratings? This is actually the first time I am seeing it. I typically see measurements of CFM. not H20 doyll

And it sounds like given what you have said about Phanteks case fans, it would mean an AIO/CLC would be better?
Wait I missed that, you have the Phanteks 500a?
You could possibly fit the Arctic Freezer II 420 in the front of that (in case you weren't aware they had made an even bigger one :D)
That said the 360 cools my 9900k extremely well up to 5.2Ghz so it should be fine for your 10850k.
Yes Phanteks 500a. YOu really are not worried about longetivity? lol or the 2 year warranty? Spartacus09
 

doyll

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
1,341
Damn, more money to spend to get better airflow. I do appreciate the help man. You guys are breathtaking.

Ok say I want to get better airflow fans.... How would I find these H2O ratings? This is actually the first time I am seeing it. I typically see measurements of CFM. not H20 doyll

And it sounds like given what you have said about Phanteks case fans, it would mean an AIO/CLC would be better?
Sorry, but that's life. :D

The flow of air is caused by pressure differential. Higher pressure air is either pushed into or flows into lower pressure air. If a fan did not create more pressure it couldn't push the air into existing air. Hope that makes sense. It's even more complicated because case fans with a rating of 1.365mmH2O is only creating as much pressure difference as we have against our neck vs our feet (1.52m higher) standing at sea level @15c .. so you can see fans make very little pressure.

AIO/CLC (All CLCs are AIO but not all AIOs are CLCs. CLCs are the cheapest possible water cooling with no provision for repairing or servicing them. AIOs that are not CLCs like Swiftech Drive X3 and Alphacool Eisbaer line all have threaded fittings, copper radiators, fill port and pump with much higher flowrate and lift than CLC pumps have. Even these are lower side of the quality in custom loop components, but are better than CLCs by far because if nothing else we can top up coolant loss. Water cooling systems loose coolant through tubing, etc. so time to time need topped up.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
25,502
How would I find these H2O ratings? This is actually the first time I am seeing it. I typically see measurements of CFM. not H20
i usually see it on euro made fans. idk why, probably due to the metric system. can't find an online converter either, higher is better obviously...
 

Spartacus09

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
1,783
Yes Phanteks 500a. YOu really are not worried about longetivity? lol or the 2 year warranty? Spartacus09
Not particularly, Arctic has a great reputation for no frills performant and reliable cooling parts, the unit may come with only a 2y warranty, but the fans have 10 year coverage iirc.
Shorter warranty doesn't necessarily mean it will fail earlier either. I've used at least a dozen AIO (mostly Corsair/NZXT) in personal, friend, and work rigs.
I've only had one have issues at about the 4 year mark with bubble noises and that was because it was a SFF case and had to be mounted in the bottom of the case which is normally a no-no.
The rest of them are going on 5+ years or I sold once it got to 5 years old for my personal usages as I'm generally upgrading my machine at that point.
One of them is an original H50 thats still chugging after 10y on a old i7 2600k even.

So my track record is good with AIO in general is why I'm willing to trust it on top of it being cheaper than any of the other options I was looking at (while also being quieter and better performing cooler).
So if it fails, so be it ya know? I'll just grab a different cooler and be wary of Arctic's AIO from there on out, but the performance and noise for the cost is pretty unmatched on the cooler based off the Gamer's Nexus data.
i usually see it on euro made fans. idk why, probably due to the metric system. can't find an online converter either, higher is better obviously...
Higher static doesnt always mean more airflow, depends how the fans are designed and their intended purpose.
The mm H2O ratings are also sometimes in Pa, they are generally on the sites for them if they are good fans:
Noctua, Arctic, Corsair, Scythe all list them
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan
https://www.arctic.de/en/products/cooling/case-fans/
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/c/Cor_Products_Cooling_Fans
http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/fans.html
 
Last edited:
Top