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Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth “Star Trek 4” Future in Doubt as Talks Fall Through
- Thread starter Megalith
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"Cabin In the Woods" was awesome, though Hemsworth wasn't exactly the lead in that one.
jnemesh
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No, it's not. Let it die, a long with the rest of the Kelvin timeline!
Hollywood just reeks of bad business decisions. How is a $150 million investment that returns $386 million, a 257% profit, a bad idea? Sure they have other franchises that earn higher returns but with numbers like that its hard to imagine they dont have the money to do both.
Oh wait I am sorry thats normal math, by Hollywood math that was actually losing money. I mean Harry Potter lost more than Star Trek cost to make (https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Lea...-Lost-Money-2007-Harry-Potter-Film-19433.html) and it grossed nearly a billion dollars.
Movies are doomed.
Nah. Hemsworth is a great comedic actor. Ragnarok is one of the best Marvel movies to date. He was the best thing about the new Ghostbusters. Even his role in Vacation movie was a lot of fun. Look forward in seeing him in the new MIB.
You can slash about half of that return before it gets back to the studio. That leaves $86 mil of which most, if not all, went to marketing. So, at best, Star Trek 2009 was a wash, but probably really lost a lot since the marketing budget is often as big as the production one. ST Beyond probably lost $100 mil. Each episode of STD is also losing money by most estimates.
M76
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It has been explained ad nauseum, but of course you have to complain about it not being explained in the one post that doesn't contain the exact reasons. Like you never heard them before. Oh you don't want to hear, that's another thing.
Imagine how TLJ ruined SW, now multiple that by about 9000, then you'll get an idea how much we feel STD ruined Star Trek for us.
Star Trek was never about a few moments, it is an added bonus when there is a great tactial battle, but at the heart of the show there were the characters.
I couldn't get past the first episode of STD, not because of the story, but because how the characters acted, that pitiful bickering, that ego driven undermining of each other. And no, not just michael was like that. It is about the fact that a vengeful ego driven disrespectful jerk is the lead, and a few of the support cast as well.
Nemesis was actually the beginning of the end. They recored a bunch of scenes that would have provided closure and much needed fan service for TNG fans, but it all ended up on the editing room floor, after they were given orders to make it a senseless action flick.
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Wrecked Em
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I like Star Trek Discovery.
jnemesh
[H]ard|Gawd
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Counterargument: It was THAT bad and worse! That wasn't Trek...not even close.
Bullshit or we would never make any TV/movies.
What was bullshit exactly?
https://stephenfollows.com/how-a-cinemas-box-office-income-is-distributed/
https://stephenfollows.com/how-movies-make-money-hollywood-blockbusters/
https://www.quora.com/What-percenta...ice-how-much-of-that-goes-to-the-movie-makers
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek11.htm
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek2016.htm
https://www.inquisitr.com/3409505/its-official-star-trek-beyond-is-a-box-office-flop/
https://screenrant.com/star-trek-beyond-box-office-success-failure/
No, this isn't some elitist hardcore fanbase opinion. STD simply isn't Star Trek, not even "mainstream" Star Trek whatever that would mean. Split IP rights issue made it look different at the get go. It was then written and filmed contrary to what Star Trek is about even beyond the (really not that important) IP limitations, and finally the whole canon was ditched so Bad Robot could make a bastard child using the known name, but keeping all the profits for itself. The joke's on them since both the movies and the series failed commercially.
I saw the Star Trek 2009 movie three or four times in the cinema. It was objectively bad, but I enjoyed it and forgave it for being the first after many years and wrote all the issues of as proof of concept issues and expected them to really revive Star Trek going forward. Now that joke is on me.
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Armenius
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Check out Blackhat. It's a Michael Mann movie with Hemsworth in the lead and it's awesome.
Armenius
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Which is a shame because Fringe is the last television series I ever watched.
I realize it's not the "first season," but when you compare Discovery to something like Enterprise episode Carbon Creek (S02E02), you quickly realize the absolute GULF between what Star Trek is supposed to be and what they want you to believe Star Trek is about with STD.
bigdogchris
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I have no idea what that tweet is even saying
Star Trek Discovery is set in the prime universe along with TOS, TNG, etc etc etc.
The new movies are their own thing and completely unrelated once Spock crossed over.
And I don't even know what the BR universe is. If it's an expanded universe from a novel, no, Picard's show is not going to be set there. That guy is trolling.
At least he's the safe kind of nerd, unlike say James Gunn or Dan Harmon.
Fringe was (mostly) great and for one pretty obvious reason: it took a lot from classic (if sometimes cheesy) science-fiction. Reading the classics you see a decent amount of hard science thrown in with guesswork and imagination, backed in general by solid narration; it was a good, believable story that remained relatable even when it got bizarre. I have nothing against modern science-fiction but oftentimes people hold books like Snow Crash up as models and honestly it was and IS great...but if you put it in the old era of sci-fi literature it would fit right in. Likewise Fringe in the modern era has no peer, for similar reasons. (although my guess is people will chime in and say Black Mirror - which is accurate in being a modern Twilight Zone of sorts, but in general too dark/pessimistic to be real sci-fi; Fringe has heart)
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MavericK
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Same here. I kind of agree that it maybe didn't need to be called Star Trek, because it is pretty drastically different than previous entries (WAY darker in general), but I enjoy it for what it is.
As for the newer ST movies...meh. They're okay CGI set pieces with tons of the trademark Abrams lens flare, but they don't really feel much like ST, either. Maybe more so than Discovery, but still not much. TNG and Voyager are what I think of when I think ST, from my own experience.
Agree, Fringe was great. What the hell happened to the guy...
Or S02E22 Cogenitor. Fun fact: the man responsible for cancelling Star Trek Enterprise is the man responsible for bringing us Star Trek Discovery.
STD is not in the Prime universe. They shat on, changed and disregarded too many things from Prime for it to be compatible. It was just a marketing stunt to bring more people in, but as the show went on they stopped trying to hide it.
That post was saying that the new Picard show will also not be set in the Prime universe. Patrick Stewart's reveal talk and the production team behind it, as well as some credibility the poster in question had prior, indicate that it is a strong possibility. Others "in the know" stated skepticism, so it is just a rumor at this point, though not without some merit. If Viacom and CBS manage to merge and Leslie Moonves is booted on time, it will be more likely that Prime will continue.
BR - Bad Robot, Abram's and Kurtzman's production company, the guys behind the new movies and STD.
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Paramount green lighted this project like 2 weeks before ST Beyond released. They announced this story line of George Kirk being alive and golly gee Jim is now older than him when he disappeared .
BEYOND had a buzz that was quickly squashed when the movie was released..fun like fast in furious in space but lacked the substance the trekkies crave - Into Darkness in contrast was like the Dark Knight , just a remarkable movie.
Paramount has this thing with capping budgets on ST movies like STV and such ($30ish milliion) and just heard that First Contact was given $45 million --you know a small rom com budget ..but it had a neat story, engaging cast and felt like trek. Abrams has said that with SW he was given control and of course BR gets its slice ...he said with ST it was always a cluster as Paramount , CBS and BR were at the table to divvy up the pie and every thing was a fight , every step of the way.
CBS is lavish , ABC is tight with salaries ..Marvel is owned by Disney but has gotten it done with big names , and Paramount is stingy .
I didn't like this story line with a whole universe to explore and lotsa trek to dish out ...they chose WE GOT HELMSLEY signed (fresh off Ghostbusters) lets do a HIS FATHER is STLL ALIVE ..cause Kirk always flew the Enterprise in the shadow of his father and has to prove himself like Maverick and Green Lantern !
Smells like we are going to have ST with Enterprise without Kirk who is looking for Daddy Kirk and the story will be about 'trying to help , reach them, or find them ' ala Force Awakens with Luke . Perhaps they will CGI an encounter suit with someone resembling Kirk inside to be trapped between dimensions in a Ghostly state like in Tholian Web. Oh and no Chekov too , transfer to Defiant ?? Maybe they will all be found in a Nexus ribbon making eggz and riding horses .
Kenny
BEYOND had a buzz that was quickly squashed when the movie was released..fun like fast in furious in space but lacked the substance the trekkies crave - Into Darkness in contrast was like the Dark Knight , just a remarkable movie.
Paramount has this thing with capping budgets on ST movies like STV and such ($30ish milliion) and just heard that First Contact was given $45 million --you know a small rom com budget ..but it had a neat story, engaging cast and felt like trek. Abrams has said that with SW he was given control and of course BR gets its slice ...he said with ST it was always a cluster as Paramount , CBS and BR were at the table to divvy up the pie and every thing was a fight , every step of the way.
CBS is lavish , ABC is tight with salaries ..Marvel is owned by Disney but has gotten it done with big names , and Paramount is stingy .
I didn't like this story line with a whole universe to explore and lotsa trek to dish out ...they chose WE GOT HELMSLEY signed (fresh off Ghostbusters) lets do a HIS FATHER is STLL ALIVE ..cause Kirk always flew the Enterprise in the shadow of his father and has to prove himself like Maverick and Green Lantern !
Smells like we are going to have ST with Enterprise without Kirk who is looking for Daddy Kirk and the story will be about 'trying to help , reach them, or find them ' ala Force Awakens with Luke . Perhaps they will CGI an encounter suit with someone resembling Kirk inside to be trapped between dimensions in a Ghostly state like in Tholian Web. Oh and no Chekov too , transfer to Defiant ?? Maybe they will all be found in a Nexus ribbon making eggz and riding horses .
Kenny
M76
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And don't you see a problem with that? Just a little bit? That a half hearted, comic relief, comedy spin on the formula is more faithful to the original than the "real" thing?
Because I think it tells us everything we need to know about STD.
"I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!"
“I don’t have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It’s a disgrace. Everybody’s out of their comfort zone or scared of ruining their memories. Klingon honour buys a nickel’s worth. Chains of commands are going bust. Starfleet shots to kill instead of negotiating. Klingons are running wild, howling at the moon like witless punks and there’s nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there’s no end to it. We know the show is unfit to watch and the characters are unfit to wear starfleet uniforms, and we sit watching our streams while some forum fanboy tells us that this is the best star trek ever, as if that’s the way it’s supposed to be"
bigdogchris
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Kurtzman just said the other day that it's in the prime universe. It sounds like you may not want it to be in the prime universe, but officially it is regardless of your opinion.
That said, I agree that I do not like the changes to the Klingons. However, they are supposed to be including more houses this season, hopefully some more ENT-TNG-DS9-VOY looking ones appear.
I would think that the show's episodes and script determine what they end up being, not a producer's empty statement that has financial interest in riding the franchise's beloved canon and disregarding it at the same time as it benefits his financial plans regarding IP rights.
bigdogchris
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... and the truth comes out.
TNG season 1 and 2 were not very good, but look where it ended up. That's about all I can add.
These is a huge difference between bad (I would say less good) Star Trek episodes and bad anti-Star Trek episodes. The only way STD could become good and Star Trek is if Q snapped his fingers, resetting everything after ending that abominable demonstration as a lesson to Michael after the STD opening scene on the sand planet, changing everything about the characters, plots, technology, timelines, directors, the writing staff and the producers.
DeathFromBelow
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That is the face of the people running Star Trek today and seeing their company's bank accounts after each episode/movie.
Came here for the inevitable crying over the ST movies not being like the TV series, am not disappointed. This continued argument that the movies weren't more action based and were like the TV show was laughably absurd, not it is just pathetic. Seriously find something better to cry over. The movies all the way back to the beginning have always been more action focused and the reboots absolutely did a fine job at being a ST Movie. No the writing wasn't amazing, but there were a couple older movies that were easily just as bad. If you want to cry about things not being good compared to the TV series, feel free to continue ranting about the tragedy that is ST Discovery.
I enjoyed the 2009 reboot and 2013 follow up Into Darkness, but I only recently saw Beyond...it was awful.
I mean, Kirk slid down the outside of the Enterprise and dropped off the side while it was flipping over, then ran clear of the massive explosion. These ships are supposed to be fucking massive but sure, he's fine. The film was filled with stupid stuff like that, from a WAY-over-the-top motocross stunt sequence to Beastie Boys over VHF instantly obliterating massive swarms of ships. Idris Elba was completely wasted as the one-dimensional villain and basically got a few minutes at the end to explain that he was mad.
Once I realized afterward that it was directed by the guy normally responsible for Fast and the Furious movies it all made sense.
I mean, Kirk slid down the outside of the Enterprise and dropped off the side while it was flipping over, then ran clear of the massive explosion. These ships are supposed to be fucking massive but sure, he's fine. The film was filled with stupid stuff like that, from a WAY-over-the-top motocross stunt sequence to Beastie Boys over VHF instantly obliterating massive swarms of ships. Idris Elba was completely wasted as the one-dimensional villain and basically got a few minutes at the end to explain that he was mad.
Once I realized afterward that it was directed by the guy normally responsible for Fast and the Furious movies it all made sense.
It's pure coincidence that STD has Lenny Kravitz blasting over its trailer. If that doesn't scream Star Trek, I don't know what does.
DeathFromBelow
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Imagine some 60's electronica playing over this TOS scene.
You see Meeho, life is about growth. It's about change... but you just seem to want everything to stay the same.
Yes, to stay good and not change to bad. I'm inflexible that way. I also don't like when my fruit changes to moldy green.
bigdogchris
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I do agree with you on that.
I still haven't made up my mind on Discovery yet, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Lizard Testes
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Yeah who's even heard of these Avenger movies anyway?
Gotta agree with this.
For me STD was awful mostly b/c the Klingon were not Klingons. They did not talk like them, act like them, and certainly did not look like them. The ships looked nothing like how they have for decades.
Since a lot of emphasis was put on them, I had a lot of issues watching that garbage reinvented version of them. If they had called them some other race then maybe I could have stomached it, but they were such a weak portrayal vs what I've been accustomed t
The plot was pretty meh as well. It was interesting the first half, until they went to the other universe and did all that stupid stuff, which seems like just an excuse to "resurrect" some crew member that died in like the first episode. I would have preferred just continue the first half story line for the entire season and skipped the parallel universe storyline altogether.
You do realize there are a hell of a lot more costs involved than just production budget, right? With a $150m production budget the break even point can be estimated at around $300m. Unless there are solid details on marketing budgets the easiest way to figure out a movie's break even point is to double the production budget.
Mister E
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My thoughts on multiple posts and in short:
Star Trek reboot - I liked it after I saw it a few times.
ST Into Darkness - I liked it.
ST Beyond - I liked it.
ST Discovery - Loved it. So dark. Like DC universe Star Trek. I want my seven seasons.
GotG - Loved it.
GotGv2 - A pile of shit.
Star Wars Ep 7&8 - I enjoyed them overall but some stuff was
As far as both Pine and Hemsworth not agreeing on their money that’s because they are letting their egos get in the way of entertainment. They big movie stars now and want that big money. The fans don’t matter anymore. It’s all about them Benjamin’s.
Star Trek reboot - I liked it after I saw it a few times.
ST Into Darkness - I liked it.
ST Beyond - I liked it.
ST Discovery - Loved it. So dark. Like DC universe Star Trek. I want my seven seasons.
GotG - Loved it.
GotGv2 - A pile of shit.
Star Wars Ep 7&8 - I enjoyed them overall but some stuff was
As far as both Pine and Hemsworth not agreeing on their money that’s because they are letting their egos get in the way of entertainment. They big movie stars now and want that big money. The fans don’t matter anymore. It’s all about them Benjamin’s.