Chinese smarter than everyone

Mega6

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Nothing lasts forever in our rapidly changing market. Skills need to constantly change to meet demand.

The days of doing the same thing for an entire career are beyond over. Everyo0ne should expect to constantly be reeducated their entire life :p

Maybe those authoritarian fuckers are on to something :p
A college degree can open that first door but after that, you are your last job.

The most useful thing I got out of it was how to teach myself new skills.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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A college degree can open that first door but after that, you are your last job.

The most useful thing I got out of it was how to teach myself new skills.
Yeah, I more or less agree. I'm not sure it is completely irrelevant after your first job, but it certainly becomes less and less so over time.

That said, I have yet to see a job description in my field (medical device R&D and quality) which didn't have a college degree in a relevant engineering discipline as part of the minimum requirements.

So, how well you did in college is certainly mostly important for your first job. Maybe even your second, if your first was a short tenure, but after that it shifts more to whether or not you can check the box that says you have a degree.
 

Mega6

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Yeah, I more or less agree. I'm not sure it is completely irrelevant after your first job, but it certainly becomes less and less so over time.

That said, I have yet to see a job description in my field (medical device R&D and quality) which didn't have a college degree in a relevant engineering discipline as part of the minimum requirements.

So, how well you did in college is certainly mostly important for your first job. Maybe even your second, if your first was a short tenure, but after that it shifts more to whether or not you can check the box that says you have a degree.
The only other thing is if you want to move into Management- typically need at least a BS/BA.
 

TheBuzzer

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This is reasons why chinese students are smarter:
* They are punished for bad grades
* They are always treated as poop even if they are doing well
* They want to prove their parents wrong that they are not crap
* They have no love from parents or tough love

Hopefully you get the point. They are smarter but doesnt mean they are happy.
 

Mega6

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This is reasons why chinese students are smarter:
* They are punished for bad grades
* They are always treated as poop even if they are doing well
* They want to prove their parents wrong that they are not crap
* They have no love from parents or tough love

Hopefully you get the point. They are smarter but doesnt mean they are happy.
All excellent training points for corporate America or a communist top down directed economy.
 

Dark12

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I'm not worried about the United States falling behind when it comes to having smart workers and talent. Fact is, when someone is "smart" enough, they will eventually realize that it's better to live in a free and open society.

That is one of the many reasons why so many Chinese migrate to the US, while at the same time, pretty much no one from the US ever voluntarily moves to China. I don't see that changing any time soon. We also have a culture that fosters innovation because you don't have to fear the government. In China you are constantly limited by a government that looks down on anything that deviates from social norms, which inherently limits any sort of innovation that might actually change society or make it better.

Would China have allowed something like the public internet to have become a thing if it had been invented there? Would China have allowed the smartphone revolution to have happened if they were invented there? I doubt it, because those things empower people to do things that they couldn't do before. They enable freedom. China isn't about empowering people. In China, only the government is allowed to be empowered. This won't change any time soon, and the "smart" people in China know this.

Fact is that people in China are so afraid of their own government, that it has become a nation of followers. Even people who can innovate, don't because they are afraid to. That is why china is so good at copying things, maybe even occasionally improving on things that already exist... but when was the last time anything relevant was actually invented there? Never?
Gunpowder
 

pillagenburn

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If you look at this through the lens of unconventional warfare then these findings make sense.

The West has been under an ideological assault from Maoists/statists for a long time now. When the West isnt being ideologically assaulted theyre being sold out by their corporate overlords.

Also while the West is shitting its pants over climate alarmism and can't figure out what kind of genitalia it has between its legs.......

China is educating its future generations, expanding its military might and dumping its own industrial revolution into the atmosphere for the rest of the world to breathe.

Maybe we will all be speaking Chinese soon. And there will be no toxic masculinity left in the West to stop it.

“Chinese students far out-stripped peers in every other country in a survey of reading, math and science ability, underscoring a reserve of future economic strength and the struggle of advanced economies to keep up.”

https://apple.news/AAelTFuLMTCqzIQKtpCN6Xg
 

Dark12

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If you look at this through the lens of unconventional warfare then these findings make sense.

The West has been under an ideological assault from Maoists/statists for a long time now. When the West isnt being ideologically assaulted theyre being sold out by their corporate overlords.

Also while the West is shitting its pants over climate alarmism and can't figure out what kind of genitalia it has between its legs.......

China is educating its future generations, expanding its military might and dumping its own industrial revolution into the atmosphere for the rest of the world to breathe.

Maybe we will all be speaking Chinese soon. And there will be no toxic masculinity left in the West to stop it.
Are you really gonna use this platform to speak out against climate change research?
 

Master_shake_

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china probably doesn't have special interests trying to reinvent the wheel by introducing common core and what not in to teaching curriculum to "even out the playing field" when it comes to grades for different races.

or worse admission quotas to satisfy some silly equality demand.
 

Dark12

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china probably doesn't have special interests trying to reinvent the wheel by introducing common core and what not in to teaching curriculum to "even out the playing field" when it comes to grades for different races.
Ya instead they put Muslims in concentration camps by the millions.
 

Master_shake_

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I don't think they are giving these people standardized tests while they work them to death.
The results are skewed. Data is flawed.
oh, so you've got evidence that shows that?

please post it for the rest of us then.
 

1_rick

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China graduates 8 stem students per 1 US stem grad.
There are also 4-5 times as many Chinese as Americans.
They are hungrier than the rest of us, and that is why, in combination with their sheer population size, in a generation or so they will have completely taken over.

We and our way of life are fucked by the laziness messed up priorities of our kids.
That's not fully their fault--some lies with their parents, and a lot with their teachers at every level.
 

NKD

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I have always said this. I got no love for chinese government, but hands down I know they don't mess around with education, its same in india when i grew up. Tough curriculum, parents giving you necessary spanking if you don't do your shit right. Being born in india I know that shit when my mama slapped the shit out of me until I could learn to multiply and by the end I did lol. I was like fricking number 12 in state of Punjab in Math I think in state exams in 8th grade. Then I came to America, yes it was a blessing but I was fine until I hit college. Too much freedom got to me I guess, I blew in it in community college. Then 5 years later regrouped and got my head straight. Then went to CSUF and got my BA in math.

My wife is sensitive when I am tough on my step son when it comes to education. But he responds as well. Took all his gadgets away during the week or unitl he has his homework done and limit it to an hour a day max. Yes I want to keep him in touch with tech but not be consumed by it. She finally started supporting me on this initiative.

We are just too chill, too soft and system is just designed to keep you average and come out with debt when you graduate. On top we are so damn politically divided its a joke and we can't get anything done in congress.
 

Mega6

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There are also 4-5 times as many Chinese Americans.
~4x as big, 8x as many stem. Twice as productive for stem grads. And yes, the total amount matters. As far as the quality of graduate, that is debatable. It is hard to compete one on one against American ingenuity in a relatively free society. Reverse engineering has its limits as well.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I don't think they are giving these people standardized tests while they work them to death.
The results are skewed. Data is flawed.
While I agree what is happening to the Uighurs is awful, I don't thinkt he impact on this data is significant.

Even if U.N. estimates of a million people in Uighur labor camps are accurate, that's only about 0.07% of the population of China.
 

TheToE!

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Meanwhile in America our students need safe spaces and have trouble grasping basic biological concepts such as sex and gender. Ours waste time posting pictures of themselves on instagram making stupid faces and posting to social media about bullshit that no one cares about.

Children are our future. God help us....because the children won't.
Too true man.
 

Dark12

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While I agree what is happening to the Uighurs is awful, I don't thinkt he impact on this data is significant.

Even if U.N. estimates of a million people in Uighur labor camps are accurate, that's only about 0.07% of the population of China.
Indeed. I was just stating an example of what the Chinese think about equality and why I have a hard time trusting any data they report regarding the success of their regime.
 

Dark12

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So are the people in the rice paddies

What is your point
My point is the Chinese government is not to be trusted. They control everything so why do you think they would report these statistics honestly?

Not sure what the disconnect is here. Seems like you are being intentionally obtuse.
 

Master_shake_

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My point is the Chinese government is not to be trusted. They control everything so why do you think they would report these statistics honestly?

Not sure what the disconnect is here. Seems like you are being intentionally obtuse.
Seems like a silly thing to lie about.

Maybe you have an axe to grind.
 

ChadD

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China just has a much more difficult curriculum for K-12 aged kids.

Better educated doesn't always mean smarter, or more intelligent.

They do have the numbers on us with what quadruple our population?

If they were more intelligent, we would be seeing tons of discoveries or advances from China, but we don't. America isn't in as strong of a position as it once was but still up there in inventions, innovation, and accomplishments.

By no means should we rest on our laurels though.

Don't go blaming kids for having shit parents and/or lackluster education. That's on the adults (yes I'm talking about you, dear reader).
The American exceptionalism is strong in this thread. lol

This fallacy that all China knows how to do is copy is stupid already. China discovers and develops as much as any other nation currently. Do they have a copy cat tech industry based on the fact that they produce 80+% of the worlds tech goods... sure. But claiming they don't know how to innovate is stupid already. Their big tech companies are using more and more homegrown stuff... the fact that they base it on a ARM instruction set doesn't make it any less innovative then what say Apple is doing with the same licences.

China has discovered plenty of useful things in their modern era (not talking about ancient China and paper gunpowder ect) Their contributions in mathematical theory pretty much equals American output. And hey US kids are very thankful that Hon Lik invented E sigs. lol
They do invent inane stuff like this that I guess no one in the west would notice. lmao They have inventive people they just have a different culture and a different set of goals... some of their inventions are a bit scary like their recent breakthough in non invasive prenatal diagnostics for down syndrome, scary considering their policies on reproduction... still ingenious and groundbreaking.

The US and China in a lot of ways are very much the same... they both have a handful of nut job farmers making crazy ass things in their barns.
https://www.quora.com/What-recent-inventions-have-been-invented-by-Chinese-in-China
 
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sfsuphysics

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The only difference between Chinese and American students is the Chinese student doesn't do well when young, he gets his ass kicked. If he at least tries, he might get his ass kicked a little less harder, but still gonna get kicked.
And if the Chinese student doesn't do well when young there is virtually zero chance for them to do anything other than "grunt work", yes they get their ass kicked but they're not getting ahead in life with STEM degrees either. Meanwhile in the US there almost always is a chance for someone to turn themselves around and make something of themselves, but whether or not it happens isn't predicated on how well they colored in the lines, or if they understood calculus in 6th grade.
 

erek

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you'd never know it, but possibly even some of your daughters are sugar babies, it's crazy these days in terms of western culture vs smarts :(
 

GotNoRice

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This fallacy that all China knows how to do is copy is stupid already.
It's not that the Chinese people can't innovate, or that they aren't smart enough. The problem is the government. Everything that is done there is done under the shadow of an oppressive regime where punishment for anything the government disagrees with is swift, harsh, and lacks due process. Who would risk even taking a chance?

If a Chinese citizen were to invent something like twitter, and then Hong Kong protestors start using it to promote freedom, or someone from Tiawan posts that their country actually exists, then they are going to prison. Things like the internet, the mobile computing revolution, etc. None of those things could have started in China as they would have been seen as attacks on the Chinese government's control of information distribution. Only once those things became ubiquitous in other parts of the world did China finally start to allow strictly controlled versions of those things to even exist in China.

some of their inventions are a bit scary like their recent breakthough in non invasive prenatal diagnostics for down syndrome, scary considering their policies on reproduction... still ingenious and groundbreaking.
Yeah, medical research is a lot easier and faster when you are allowed to test on unwilling patients and are able to freely harvest organs and body parts from live prisoners.
 

NKD

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Indeed. I was just stating an example of what the Chinese think about equality and why I have a hard time trusting any data they report regarding the success of their regime.
Trust me. They do the same in India. They will drill you until you get your shit straight. Yea china is fucked but they
It's not that the Chinese people can't innovate, or that they aren't smart enough. The problem is the government. Everything that is done there is done under the shadow of an oppressive regime where punishment for anything the government disagrees with is swift, harsh, and lacks due process. Who would risk even taking a chance?

If a Chinese citizen were to invent something like twitter, and then Hong Kong protestors start using it to promote freedom, or someone from Tiawan posts that their country actually exists, then they are going to prison. Things like the internet, the mobile computing revolution, etc. None of those things could have started in China as they would have been seen as attacks on the Chinese government's control of information distribution. Only once those things became ubiquitous in other parts of the world did China finally start to allow strictly controlled versions of those things to even exist in China.



Yeah, medical research is a lot easier and faster when you are allowed to test on unwilling patients and are able to freely harvest organs and body parts from live prisoners.

Could not have said it better. China will use all these people to advance engineering the stuff to benefit the government first. That's just how they are, these guys can't build or innovate on their own unless of course you are benefiting the regime, doesn't mean there aren't smart people there. They just can't do much to fuck with the govt.
 

ChadD

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You guys clearly didn't see that I posed a link to the FaceKini.... no American could dream up such a thing. ;) lol

Just because you have an evil government doesn't mean you can not innovate.

Did they invent social media... no but hell neither did facebook or twitter for that matter. China has 1.2 billion people using wechat and there are many other social media platforms. Wechat is no doubt a pioneer their site is like facebook on staroids as I understand it being a jump off point for shopping, dating ect. If facebook has tried something new in the last 3 or 4 years, it is because it was done first in China by wechat. That they are censored hardly detracts from the innovation that is happening there.

I'm not advocating for the Chinese Gov. I agree they are evil as fuck.... its just silly to suggest they are not innovating. They are ahead of us in AI no doubt... sure the CCP may be using it to surveil the entire population, still it is innovation. Same goes for their super computers.... it doesn't matter that their homegrown chips are using Alpha as a jump off point the CPUs are still incredibly innovative designs. The Sunway super computer which is still number 3 on the list of the worlds fastest super computers uses a little under 41k Chinese designed 26010 chips with 260 cores each. For people saying they are just brute forcing their way there... Frontera as far as I am aware the fastest non Chinese Intel powered super computer uses 45k Intel xeons and comes in at 23 pettaflops to Sunways 93. The only 2 machines in the world faster then the sunway machine which delivers btw an amazing 6 gigaflops per watt. Are 2 IBM power 9 based machines Summit the big boy delivers 120 pettaflops which is for sure more then Sunway... using 9 thousand power 9s and 28 thousand Nvidia V100s. (keep in mind Summit won't be running for another year or so)

Anyway my point is we may not like all the areas they are choosing to innovate in. But they are doing just that. They can't simply be dismissed as copiers or obressed people incapable of innovating. I haven't even mentioned some of the crazy construction stuff they have been doing building machines capable of building complete 8 lane bridges in a day ect. For innovative people it doesn't really matter if the money is coming from a government that really really wants you to be able to build cities in a week... some venture capital fund, or some insane billionaire who wants you to complete some silly space vanity project, or vanity clock that will still keep perfect time in 10,000 years when the aliens find our ashes. Most innovators really don't care much where the money comes from. Just look at van braun... as he said wasn't his job to pay attention to where his rockets came down just to figure out how to get them to go up. Plenty of people just like him in China... they don't care if their AI is finding dissidents its just their job to make it think / work.
 

ChadD

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Most of the greatestUS innovations of the past 50 years come to us thanks to military government backed development. The internet was developed to ensure we could end the world even if every American was already dead. GPS before it directed you to the closest McFastFood line, was used to track all navel assets in real time. Duct tape that great American fix all on a roll... was developed by the US military to quickly seal ammo boxes. Drones. Radar. Microwaves. Digital Cameras. Epipens... where developed by the military for battle field medics. No doubt a ton of other crap I'm not thinking about.

My point is Governments fund all sorts of innovation... and their intent isn't to invent pocket cameras for our kids, and digital talking maps for those of us that get lost 2 blocks from home. The west the east china... doesn't matter the Gov they all fund innovation to further their own goals.

The CCP has a very different set of goals then the US gov... but the bottom line is both drive innovation in their countries to reach those goals. The brain trusts in both countries cash their Gov cheques.
 
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