Chinese Media Slam Google as 'Politicized'

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It seems that Google, by refusing to censor search results, has become politicized if you believe what the Chinese media is saying. Ummm, okay.

"Google's actions show that the world's biggest search engine company has abandoned its business principles and instead shows the world a face that is totally politicized," China Radio International wrote in an editorial.
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Spin control before Google pulls out. They know their excuses are laughable to every other nation. It's supposed to groom the population for the news of Google's departure, hopefully make them glad Google is leaving, instead of feeling like a robust service has yet again been destroyed by their government.
 
Well, the fact that Google has been in business in China under the very same rules it now is saying is the cause of the pullout opened them up to this. I don't know why they simply were afraid to man up and say something like...We don't wish to continue doing business in a country that supports the manipulation of our systems, either directly or indirectly, for any reason. And leave it at that.

The Chinese could rant and rave all they want about that but the moment Google mentioned the censorship they shot themselves in the foot.

Why is everyone so afraid of the truth?
 
by refusing to appease government, wouldn't that mean Google is AVOIDING politics? :confused:
 
Azhar said:
by refusing to appease government, wouldn't that mean Google is AVOIDING politics? :confused:
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What? How are they avoiding politics when they took what should have been a business decision (information security and all that jazz) and turned it into a political one (censorship)?
 
spinelli said:
What? How are they avoiding politics when they took what should have been a business decision (information security and all that jazz) and turned it into a political one (censorship)?
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Simple.

Government: "We want you to censor the internet"
Google: "Piss off, it's not our job. You want our business here, you let us do our job"
Government: "No can do."
Google: "Okedokey then, good luck with your country."

It's not politics. Google was avoiding it. China hacked, Google told them to piss off.
 
Azhar said:
Simple.

Government: "We want you to censor the internet"
Google: "Piss off, it's not our job. You want our business here, you let us do our job"
Government: "No can do."
Google: "Okedokey then, good luck with your country."

It's not politics. Google was avoiding it. China hacked, Google told them to piss off.
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You are missing a few points here.

Google has been doing business under the very same Chinese laws they are so vehemently against all of a sudden. So your little dialogue is meaningless.

It is politics. Here is my own little dialogue..

Google: We wanna do business in China
China: NP fuckers, just obey our censorship rules and other laws and all is well
Google: Right on.
...much time passes
Google: Did you pricks just hack us? N2cool.
China: Nah buddy, not us (snicker)
Google: We are leaving your country due to your censorship laws
China: .....wtf?

Again, they took a simple business decision and turned it political.
 
spinelli said:
You are missing a few points here.

Google has been doing business under the very same Chinese laws they are so vehemently against all of a sudden. So your little dialogue is meaningless.

It is politics. Here is my own little dialogue..

Google: We wanna do business in China
China: NP fuckers, just obey our censorship rules and other laws and all is well
Google: Right on.
...much time passes
Google: Did you pricks just hack us? N2cool.
China: Nah buddy, not us (snicker)
Google: We are leaving your country due to your censorship laws
China: .....wtf?

Again, they took a simple business decision and turned it political.
Click to expand...

I over simplified it. But yes you're closer, except for one thing. Google offered to look the other way regarding the hacking if they allow them to continue operate without censorship. China said no, so Google packed up and left.

But I still consider it business, not politics. If Google didn't act, their reputation among their customer would be blemished. So it was more PR than politics - not that they're that much different lol
 
spinelli said:
You are missing a few points here.

Google has been doing business under the very same Chinese laws they are so vehemently against all of a sudden. So your little dialogue is meaningless.

It is politics. Here is my own little dialogue..

Google: We wanna do business in China
China: NP fuckers, just obey our censorship rules and other laws and all is well
Google: Right on.
...much time passes
Google: Did you pricks just hack us? N2cool.
China: Nah buddy, not us (snicker)
Google: We are leaving your country due to your censorship laws
China: .....wtf?

Again, they took a simple business decision and turned it political.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, Google never wanted to follow the censorship laws and was very much against it at first. But China said it was a no deal without them. So Google bent to the demands to get the market. That is a business decision. Then they were hacked from within China due to protests about the censorship of the internet, causing a lot of hassle, grief, and losses to Google. So Google went to the Chinese government and said, we cannot continue to do business if we are going to get hacked for offering a censored product. The Chinese government told them they would not back down on the censorship and Google would just have to deal with it, besides they couldn't "prove" the hacks came from China. So Google took the stance that if the Chinese government is not going to help them stop the hacking, or allow them to operate without censorship, they would pull out. Again that is a business decision. There is nothing political involved here except the Chinese government's decision to censor everything.
 
Azhar said:
If Google didn't act, their reputation among their customer would be blemished.
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I do not think that is true. 30ish companies were hacked in the recent attacks iirc and I do not believe the public is coming down on any of them.

You are correct, Google was willing to stay even after the hacking if China agreed to suspend their long standing laws for a single non-Chinese business interest. Hmm...It's difficult to see why that didn't fly huh?

Truthfully, that make Google look like bigger fools. Censorship = OK, Hacking = OK, but censorship + hacking = not OK?.....but we'll blame it on the censorship.

We can agree to disagree that Google pointing to censorship as the reason for the pullout was a political standpoint or not but I am glad to see that China did not give in.
 
Lets see I have a product... someone doesn't like the way it works, so I say "fine don't use our product then", person goes on tirade about how I'm being unreasonable.

Welcome to retardation China.
 
Heres my take on it with dialog:

"Hey Google, wanna play some GIJoes"
"No, I'm playing with my Furbi"
"Oh ya, I'm calling the mobile death squad on you"
"I'm going home China!"
 
spinelli said:
Censorship = OK, Hacking = OK, but censorship + hacking = not OK?.....but we'll blame it on the censorship.
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Way to simplify the math, there:

Censorship=Cost of doing business in China

Hacking=China not doing its part to protect legally operating businesses + 1/2 (Targeted attack by Chinese government to identify human rights activists)

Censorship + Hacking=Cost to do business in China + Risk to entire global operation by operating in China + 1/2 (Violation of the human rights of Gmail users)
 
So lets just say that Google has had a change of heart since it turned in the first,of what could have been many, Chinese dissidence through their email accounts since 2005. Up to this point they have been abiding by Chinese laws, so I see no reason this has not been happening. Neither side is going to benefit from admitting to it. The one to hurt the most would be Google, their trust would be on the line. China has the least to lose because we expect that behavior from them. So the ruckus right now is to figure out a win win for both sides. Sometimes it looks like we have advanced from kicking out each others diplomats to a new digital version of the same game.
 
Wow. China becomes an even shittier place to live.

I feel really sorry for the Chinese, actually, having to deal with this sort of thing on a day to day basis.
 
Only a Chinese media outlet could come pair "lack of censorship" with "politicized"

Still want to invest there? Wake up people! Big Surprise! It's a COMMUNIST country propping itself up with faux capitalism!

:cool:
 
jwalk6 said:
Only a Chinese media outlet could pair "lack of censorship" with "politicized"

Still want to invest there? Wake up people! Big Surprise! It's a COMMUNIST country propping itself up with faux capitalism!

:cool:
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No idea why this weird editing keeps happening...
 
Azhar said:
I over simplified it. But yes you're closer, except for one thing. Google offered to look the other way regarding the hacking if they allow them to continue operate without censorship. China said no, so Google packed up and left.

But I still consider it business, not politics. If Google didn't act, their reputation among their customer would be blemished. So it was more PR than politics - not that they're that much different lol
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actually you're right on the money as far as that "not that they are much different".

It would be impolitical of Google to stay, so that's why they moved out.

See what I said?
 
isn't it sort of ironic that china is calling out google for choosing ethics over pure capitalistic motives?
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
over in one

go to hell china

heres to hoping our government grows a spine and slaps some amazing tariffs on chinese goods in due time....
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US is not China's biggest trading partner. They diversify a few years ago. They can do the same to US company.

If you want to compete with China, lower your standard of living.
 
Matador said:
US is not China's biggest trading partner. They diversify a few years ago. They can do the same to US company.

If you want to compete with China, lower your standard of living.
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they stand to lose waaay, waaay more due to a trade war than we do .... china's currency manipulation hurts developing economies across the globe, if we lose china's manufacturing to a trade war, we have a veritable pick of the litter among the many, many developing countries to shift our manufacturing needs to

china's power of the united states is greatly exaggerated....

and china's biggest trade partner (europe) is closer to setting off a trade war than the US is.... they really, *really* hate china right now...


seriously, last year's recession in the US and EU created ghost towns all over the chinese countryside.... a trade war between either of those two economies (the 2 largest in the world by far) would ruin china
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
they stand to lose waaay, waaay more due to a trade war than we do .... china's currency manipulation hurts developing economies across the globe, if we lose china's manufacturing to a trade war, we have a veritable pick of the litter among the many, many developing countries to shift our manufacturing needs to

china's power of the united states is greatly exaggerated....

and china's biggest trade partner (europe) is closer to setting off a trade war than the US is.... they really, *really* hate china right now...


seriously, last year's recession in the US and EU created ghost towns all over the chinese countryside.... a trade war between either of those two economies (the 2 largest in the world by far) would ruin china
Click to expand...

China did not even go into recession while US and EU were. The US mismanage their economy and did not even effect much of China. They cried foul because their influent power is slowly disappear.

Even US pull out it factory go somewhere else you still have to compete with the Chinese to sell the goods. When it comes to mass production there is no way US can compete with China.

Just look at Mexico in the late 70 and early 80 why they lost to China.
 
Matador said:
China did not even go into recession while US and EU were. The US mismanage their economy and did not even effect much of China. They cried foul because their influent power is slowly disappear.

Even US pull out it factory go somewhere else you still have to compete with the Chinese to sell the goods. When it comes to mass production there is no way US can compete with China.

Just look at Mexico in the late 70 and early 80 why they lost to China.
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china's growth slowed tremendously, to unsustainable (politically) levels for the leadership, the only reason why they didnt experience negative growth was because the chinese government pumped into their economy a stimulus that was by GDP, 3 times bigger than the one that the US government pumped into its economy. And even then the ghost towns remain

not really sure where you are going with the mexico reference, but the whole issue with china's recent currency manipulation is that it is stifling other developing economies like mexico, haiti, african countries, etc, and on top of that, slowing the development of other economies such as india

a trade war with either the US or EU would ruin china's economy, a trade war with both would completely topple that house of cards...
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
china's growth slowed tremendously, to unsustainable (politically) levels for the leadership, the only reason why they didnt experience negative growth was because the chinese government pumped into their economy a stimulus that was by GDP, 3 times bigger than the one that the US government pumped into its economy. And even then the ghost towns remain

not really sure where you are going with the mexico reference, but the whole issue with china's recent currency manipulation is that it is stifling other developing economies like mexico, haiti, african countries, etc, and on top of that, slowing the development of other economies such as india

a trade war with either the US or EU would ruin china's economy, a trade war with both would completely topple that house of cards...
Click to expand...

Its call good management. US stimulus going no where did not create job while China have worker shortage this year with is stimulus.

As for Mexico, US companies pulled out of Mexico and move to China you can google it.

As for EU and US complete pull out of China and as US population growth where you expand your market to create jobs in the US.

About currently manipulation, this is just that other want to manipulate Chinese economy. That is what happened to to Japanese in the 90's. China just protect its interest.
 
srangara said:
Censorship + Hacking= ... + 1/2 (Violation of the human rights of Gmail users)
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How exactly does hacking cause violation of human rights of gmail users? If you thinking a right to privacy as hacking might allow someone to read your emails, privacy is not really a fundamental human right. Its guaranteed by some countries, constitutions or organizations in some areas of the world but still with reasonable-limitations.

Really, if you went back to a point earlier in history, you'd have almost no privacy. Like if you believe in evolution, you might also believe in the hunter-gatherer nomadic lifestyle humans once lived were we hunted in tribes/packs. Before we started building shelter, more than likely, we'd all live in the same cave. Not much privacy in a naturally made 1-room shelter.... Not much privacy also if your say camping out in a jungle, plains or anywhere else for that matter. Privacy really is a right we've achieved just recently in history and will likely lose pretty soon in the future.

There's a chance, I could live alone in a remote wilderness where I would never run into anotehr human in my life-time and have the entire area covered off by tarps/something so overhead satalites would be unable to take pictures and stay off the Internet all together, keep a diary with some self-destruct mechanism, etc. However, if you live in a place like Macau which is a special administrative area of china, where there is 18,534 people per 1 square kilometer or 48,003 people per square mile, its going to be very hard to achieve any level of privacy at all. If population growth continues at an exponential growth rate, you can bet you'll see huge population densities in areas like LA, NY, etc where you won't be able to afford privacy.

If you think privacy is a fundamental human right, you better start pumping on the pro-depopulation or population-control band wagon. Most people would consider a fundamental right to be a person's right to live. Your privacy is not more important or as important than someone else's life for example in my opinion.
 
Basically, growth is easy for undeveloped countries. And in an ideal world without civil wars and outside interference it would be the norm.

Which I guess is the one defensible argument the Chinese leadership can make for their authoritarianism. China does have a history of imploding in civil wars and wasn't exactly fairly treated by the west a century ago.

China is still very much a developing country. Just because there are billionaires in China doesn't mean it's a rich country. The richest man in the world is Mexican, what does that say about anything?
 
IntelPatriot said:
The two are completely incomparable. Just about anything (short of taking money and burning it) counts as growth for the Chinese economy.
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It stimulate the economy if its not why major economy pour money into their economy. US pumped a trillion into the economy.

At least it create jobs and that is all it matter.
 
WBurchnall said:
However, if you live in a place like Macau which is a special administrative area of china, where there is 18,534 people per 1 square kilometer or 48,003 people per square mile, its going to be very hard to achieve any level of privacy at all. If population growth continues at an exponential growth rate, you can bet you'll see huge population densities in areas like LA, NY, etc where you won't be able to afford privacy.

If you think privacy is a fundamental human right, you better start pumping on the pro-depopulation or population-control band wagon. Most people would consider a fundamental right to be a person's right to live. Your privacy is not more important or as important than someone else's life for example in my opinion.
.
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Except that the US and Macau does not actually have high birthrates. Macau actually has the lowest birthrate in the world...it varies by source a little, but not much.

So where exactly is this exponential growth?

China has an overall population density somewhere around that of Uganda and Kuwait. China's issue is less population and more...where to put them and to a lesser degree, how to feed them. Macau is a whopping 11 sq miles with a pop density lower then Union City, New Jersey. Guess what, people still want and expect privacy to varying degrees. This of course has no bearing whatsofuckingever on the fact that somebody in China tried somewhat successfully to diddle around with Gmail accounts of human rights activists and journalists.

Yes, privacy is a fairly new concept to humans as a species...so what. Does that mean we should all allow public access to all of our personal information, habits, preferences, fetishes, communications, health information, and pet peeves? Of course it does not. So why even bring up privacy in this thread? Who gives a crap how much privacy a hunter-gatherer had? Why are you weighing one persons privacy with anthers life? I am trying to make sense of your post but failing miserably past the first three sentences which I did not quote but agree with....but that still does not change the fact that the accounts were accessed (successfully or not) without authorization.
 
Matador said:
Its call good management. US stimulus going no where did not create job while China have worker shortage this year with is stimulus.

As for Mexico, US companies pulled out of Mexico and move to China you can google it.

As for EU and US complete pull out of China and as US population growth where you expand your market to create jobs in the US.

About currently manipulation, this is just that other want to manipulate Chinese economy. That is what happened to to Japanese in the 90's. China just protect its interest.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: someone doesn't understand basic history and economics... Why am I wasting my time

I really should keep my economics discussions at the university...
 
Google > China

China again has destroyed another valuable recource and source of jobs and and money in the country, surprise surprise demented communists.
 
I think we shall all listen to Matador and just give up.

Ok everyone, stop paying your bills, don't buy anything, just smash the windows and take it and if somebody gets sick just kill them cause they just slow you down.

Me I'm gonna mount a 50 caliber in the bed of my El Camino, gather up my gang of mutants and run around shooting stuff up.

Here we go!
 
jwalk6 said:
I think we shall all listen to Matador and just give up.

Ok everyone, stop paying your bills, don't buy anything, just smash the windows and take it and if somebody gets sick just kill them cause they just slow you down.

Me I'm gonna mount a 50 caliber in the bed of my El Camino, gather up my gang of mutants and run around shooting stuff up.

Here we go!
Click to expand...

I'm so gonna get a visit from the guys in the black suits!

:p
 
I was watching the news tonight (NBC) and it turns out Google isn't quite leaving China after all. They're just shifting their service to Hong Kong based servers (google.com.hk) where China can't do a damn thing about it because of their promise to Britain to leave Hong Kong a free city when China takes over.

Here's the story
 
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