cageymaru

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Over a period of 5 years, Chinese intelligence officers Zha Rong and Chai Meng, along with other co-conspirators sought to involve co-opted company insiders to hack and steal sensitive commercial aviation and technological data from firms in the United States and abroad. The intelligence officers work at the "Jiangsu Province Ministry of State Security ("JSSD"), headquartered in Nanjing, which is a provincial foreign intelligence arm of the People's Republic of China's Ministry of State Security ("MSS"). The MSS, and by extension the JSSD, is primarily responsible for domestic counter-intelligence, non-military foreign intelligence, and aspects of political and domestic security."

They and others are accused of hacking into a French aerospace manufacturer which had developed underlying turbofan engine technology in partnership with a U.S. based company. They then used this intrusion to access sensitive data at other parts manufacturers of the turbofan jet engine in various states and abroad. The French company had a Chinese office and the JSSD recruited two members of the staff there to inject malware into the computer systems onsite. The same malware was found on the systems of parts suppliers for the turbofan jet engine in America. The malware campaign has been traced to various other computer technology companies in California and other states. The court filing can be found here. Made in China 2025.

"For the third time since only September, the National Security Division, with its US Attorney partners, has brought charges against Chinese intelligence officers from the JSSD and those working at their direction and control for stealing American intellectual property," said John C. Demers, Assistant Attorney General for National Security. "State-sponsored hacking is a direct threat to our national security. This action is yet another example of criminal efforts by the MSS to facilitate the theft of private data for China's commercial gain," said U.S. Attorney Adam Braverman. "The concerted effort to steal, rather than simply purchase, commercially available products should offend every company that invests talent, energy, and shareholder money into the development of products." "The threat posed by Chinese government-sponsored hacking activity is real and relentless," said John Brown, FBI Special Agent in Charge of the San Diego Field Office.
 
Used to work for a *major* aerospace parts supplier and they were hit by either major corporation or state level.
Likely these guys.
For a while, we were getting port scans from our own ADC's. :facepalm:
 
Core jet engine material tech and design was their weak point and the hardest part to copy without getting hold of a plane...
 
It is also among the hardest of the parts to manufacture and test for defects.

It's why the Chinese were buying Russian tech for a while, but when the Russians (understandably) didn't want to sell them the "top-tier" stuff, the Chinese fell back on espionage for the best -- what the US has.

Russians/Warsaw Pact were doing the same thing to the US during the Cold War -- they saved themselves hundreds of billions in USD (for R&D costs) that way.
 
i get really sick of these dicks reinforcing the "sneaky" stereotype
 
Have the chinese innovated anything noteworthy in the last 100 years? All they seem to do anymore is just steal tech. What happened to the days when they were innovative and invented stuff like gunpowder?

The innovative ones blew their fingers off inventing gunpowder.
 
The special metal alloys that make up the compressor and turbine blades is what defeated the USSR in the jet race.
They couldn't build a plane to match the SR71 because of this. Their best could only sustain high MACH speeds for short bursts or else the engines melted.
I would say the same is true for the Chinese.
 
An article suggesting that a national intelligence service got caught doing their job...wow, amazing.

The problem isn't that people are trying to steal from you - the problem is the totally lazy job done protecting the info.
 
It's why the Chinese were buying Russian tech for a while, but when the Russians (understandably) didn't want to sell them the "top-tier" stuff, the Chinese fell back on espionage for the best -- what the US has.

Russians/Warsaw Pact were doing the same thing to the US during the Cold War -- they saved themselves hundreds of billions in USD (for R&D costs) that way.

The Russian stuff isn't even near top tier level when it comes to engines.
 
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The special metal alloys that make up the compressor and turbine blades is what defeated the USSR in the jet race.
They couldn't build a plane to match the SR71 because of this. Their best could only sustain high MACH speeds for short bursts or else the engines melted.
I would say the same is true for the Chinese.

No, even their simplest engines have miserable real world reliability and service life between overhauls.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if the story read instead that they were caught stealing technology, but instead were infected with a malicious virus and lost all THEIR R&D.

Wouldn't it be nice
 
I got a warning the last time I spoke my mind about the Chinese here. Let's just say I'm not a fan.
 
The Russian stuff isn't even near top tier level when it comes to engines.

It definitely isn't (not by US standards), but the Russian "top-tier stuff" is still considerably better than what the Chinese have, so when the Chinese got rebuffed (despite offering generous amounts of cash), they resorted to (and are still doing) espionage here in the States.

The context is the well-known Russian "internal standard" of selling "monkey versions" of their tech to various "client states" during their Cold War heyday (Arab states' armies during the Yom Kippur War in Israel, Iraq during the Gulf War, etc).
 
Really this kind of tech just requires some innovation, its not expertise and a lot of time and money invested into R&D? I was so mistaken.
 
Have the chinese innovated anything noteworthy in the last 100 years? All they seem to do anymore is just steal tech. What happened to the days when they were innovative and invented stuff like gunpowder?

That's all communists and socialists do. They punish those who excel, in favor of those who don't, claiming it is unfair. That's their whole way of thinking. People who live under such circumstances can't innovate, so they have to steal such technological advances.
 
Have the chinese innovated anything noteworthy in the last 100 years? All they seem to do anymore is just steal tech. What happened to the days when they were innovative and invented stuff like gunpowder?

They must have innovated in the espionage field. I don't see any other countries with agents embedded in US senator offices for 20 years!
 
This is a constant fear at work, none of the engineering computers are internet facing, the whole network is air gapped. We've had multiple attempts to duplicate dynos we've sold them, without success so far .

Their latest attempt was to try and convince us to open a overhaul shop in China itself. Yeah right .
 
Their latest attempt was to try and convince us to open a overhaul shop in China itself. Yeah right .

The Chinese famously did that to the Japanese with one of their high-speed magnetic "bullet train" lines -- hired a Japanese firm, learned (one way or the other) from the Japanese (while construction was ongoing), then promptly kicked 'em to the curb before the Japanese had finished with the railroad (thus breaking the agreed-upon contract).

They then reverse-engineered the Japanese tech (was probably already happening as the trains/rail system was being built), and now are selling it abroad, undercutting various Japanese/Euro companies.

With the Germans, the Chinese (successfully) pushed hard for a "technology transfer" before they'd let the Germans into the lucrative Chinese market ... result? For a "mere" few billion dollars, not only has China have a nice German-engineered railway (the high-speed ICE style), they (also) reverse-engineered the German tech, made some improvements, and are also selling it abroad, in the process forcing the German firm (Siemens) to join with a rival French firm (Alstom) to merge their railway businesses, due to market pressure.

What's a few billion dollars, when you can get a big slice (possibly market dominance) in a few decades or less? It's a excellent long-term arrangement, something that we here in the West seem to be losing focus on (we used to be quite good at this, up until two decades or so ago).

tl:dr -- The Chinese almost always play the "long-term" game.
 
ah, finally China-2025 is making it into the news.

And yet there will be no actual repercussions for their actions.

hence the tariffs. More to come. And more eyes are open in the high-tech businesses and among industrialists to not do business-as-usual in China.
 
ah, finally China-2025 is making it into the news.



hence the tariffs. More to come. And more eyes are open in the high-tech businesses and among industrialists to not do business-as-usual in China.
They don’t have many options, it would take decades and hundreds of billions of dollars to rebuild the tech manufacturing infrastructure outside of China. And even if they did it would require hundreds of thousands of skilled labourers that don’t exist. So while on paper I agree it should happen and needs to happen, I can’t see any publicaly traded company spending the money to invest in that sort of project. They will wait out the tariffs and just pass the costs on.
 
Revoke their "most favored nation" status.

Kick them out of the WTO.

Inspect every single item imported from them. Every single item. One at a time. By a single inspector. Got a ship with 100,000 dolls? Yeah, that'll take a while to clear.

Do this for half a decade or more.
 
Nope.

Yep, all they know how to do is steal the world's innovations. Why the world doesn't collectively tell China to go fuck themselves I have no idea.
Cheap labor, and while they get that they decrease the cost of labor in their native country. It's a matter of control, and the belief of the ability to control all the people/governments involved.
 
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Have the chinese innovated anything noteworthy in the last 100 years? All they seem to do anymore is just steal tech. What happened to the days when they were innovative and invented stuff like gunpowder?

The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ation-investment-5g-genetics-quantum-internet

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/china-set-to-become-global-science-leader-by-2025

180630-china-1.png
 
<snip>

Multiple exaplese

tl:dr -- The Chinese almost always play the "long-term" game.

We have the benefit of operating without any substantial competition worldwide, so they gave limited options to force our hands, but even with the amount of business we do there, we'd stop entirely before allowing them access to our designs.

Sometimes it's a plus to work for a privately owned company.

It has an unfortunate side effect for honest customers, we used to be able to supply detailed prints that would them to overhaul units in house, now we can't take the risk, it drives the cost of ownership up for everyone .
 
The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.
Maybe.
But..
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6162/1035.full?sid=e4c6faad-14f6-4cd6-85f2-cc1034772a5a
Springer has been investigating fraudulent peer review, where the authors themselves or paid consultants provide the glowing review. Since 2012, more than 500 papers have been retracted because of a faked peer review, the vast majority of which has been from China, according to Retraction Watch.
https://www.livescience.com/61275-scientific-retractions-2017.html
https://www.economist.com/china/2013/10/03/looks-good-on-paper
https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-...-an-enormous-gulf-regarding-relevant-research

Like most things in China, quantity ≠ quality.
Yes, without a doubt Science in general has come a long way in China over the past 30 years.
Let's not forget it wasn't all that long ago when academics and educators were being routinely sent to re-education camps (China still has them BTW, they're primarily for the Uyghur people in Xinjiang province now) and/or outright murdered.
 
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The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ation-investment-5g-genetics-quantum-internet

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/china-set-to-become-global-science-leader-by-2025

Thank you for outing that 'thinly veiled air of racism'. You are quite brave, and noble. Like the Rosa Parks of the forum. Undoubtedly, your careful policing of language will help avert some horrific racist outcome, like establishing policies that actually acknowledge China is not merely a competitor, but a mortal communist enemy whose 'innovations' are largely built on theft of intellectual property and the foolish western nations that have allowed the Chinese to be trained in our universities.
 
The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ation-investment-5g-genetics-quantum-internet

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/china-set-to-become-global-science-leader-by-2025

View attachment 116636

I think its fair to make the assumption that in a thread talking about China and its intelligence efforts that Chinese = China. Doesnt strike me as racist to say theyve been stealing a shit ton of tech lately...because they fucking have.
 
Fun side note: Chinese companies spy on each other, too (this is a given, and socially speaking is not regarded as espionage over there), so (then) the deciding factor quickly becomes how strong your guanxi (network of social connections/understandings/influence/relationships) is with the Chinese government (more specifically, the Party), in terms of securing lucrative rights to whatever you have invented/made, as well as market release times/dates/exposure.
 
The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.

Gotta love whenever the "race" card is tossed in. Well played. Lol...

China, Communist China, The Chinese, Sino, President (for life) Xi, they all mean the same thing. The only reason why Chinese have more articles in professional journals is probably because they stole the research off someone's hard drive.
 
The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ation-investment-5g-genetics-quantum-internet

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/china-set-to-become-global-science-leader-by-2025

View attachment 116636
Useful part of that graph.
upload_2018-11-1_11-32-38.png
 
The problem with your statement is you said Chinese rather than China although even that narrative would be false. If you look at scientific breakthroughs in the last few decades, a ton of them have been made by Chinese scientists. There’s this air of thinly veiled racism by people who make sweeping generalizations like you did.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ation-investment-5g-genetics-quantum-internet

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/china-set-to-become-global-science-leader-by-2025

View attachment 116636

You need to research academic fraud and plagiarism in China before making any kind of statement or using the guardian and Cosmo. It is incredibly common for Chinese "scientists" to wholesale fabricate experimental data, manuscripts, and breakthroughs. When they aren't doing that they often copy manuscripts published elsewhere and republish them (either their own work or others). In the fields I have worked, pay to publish Chinese paper mills so far outstrip the legitimate ones that we don't even look at their "work". We learned long ago what is becoming more apparent now to everyone else.
 
The Russian stuff isn't even near top tier level when it comes to engines.
Then obviously you've never witnessed a Russian SU-35 perform a Pugachev's Cobra maneuver.

I have, along with a number of military vets at a private airshow in Europe, and let me say the emotion completely overwhelmed us and broke us as rock music played.
 
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