Chinese Build 15 Story Hotel in 2 Days

RyanLucier

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Not just complexity but how laborious it is too. You think becoming a robotron for 8 - 12 hours a day is an easy task? You want to talk about over paid? Just look around you at all the people in management that do next to nothing and get paid four fold what the actual workers do. How is that fair in any way? Management is for people too lazy to do any real work........

No offense, but you're delusional. Management is for people who DID the shitty work getting paid crappily for years (getting experience) and moved up the ladder.... OR it's for people who took a shot and opened their own company that was successful but most likely took YEARS to grind out until it became successful (much like my own experience).

I worked for a couple years in retail and in factories, and let me tell you - you deserve to never get paid more than $20/hr. Ever. You're a robo-tron because you opt to be. I decided that shit wasn't for me, went to school getting two degrees in my chosen field and then decided to work for myself.

People are compensated more because they had to sacrifice for years in school / putting themselves through school, and because they have a particular skillset that isn't common, and consequently they are valuable and not expendable. It's simple supply and demand, everyone knows how to push a broom, not too many people know surgery, or programming, or aviation etc.

Furthermore, in my field, I'm constantly learning new techniques every single day, but there's only so many ways you can turn a wrench or push a broom... Why shouldn't I make more?
 

jiminator

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People love to ignore simple factors. There is 1 thing that determines pay and 1 thing only. What people are willing to work for. It doesn't matter what you think someone should make. It matters what they are willing to accept. If a company doesn't like the $70/hr shovel workers the stockholders can choose the abandon the business and go do something else or do the work somewhere else (as with the auto industry).
this all is a good theory but the equation becomes screwed up as soon as you put unions in the picture. when you add a union into the mix and a lot of the "guarantees" a union gives the employees it becomes the unions that the employees owe allegiance to. Take away the accountability and you get mediocrity in a lot of areas. to be certain, US automakers have sucked for the past 30 years.

as for labor costs, companies need to be able to create a product and sell it for a profit. if they cannot do that then there is no reason for it to exist. investors pull their money out and bye-bye company. the public has what it is willing to pay for a product. They have put their money in cheaper foreign products. Compare that to the crappy american products, the stories of $700 of every car going to cover union health care costs... It is not just the owners that reject unions, it is the public at large.

anyway the labor to produce a car can then be said to have a calculated value. if labor in a market costs more than what can give a profitable return then the result is the company goes shopping for cheaper factories. This may be either in non-unionized markets (like the south) or in different countries.

it does seem like with the reorg of the past two years things might have changed to make american car makers more competitive. They have cut a lot of dead weight and are making better cars that the public wants.
 

demingo

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this all is a good theory but the equation becomes screwed up as soon as you put unions in the picture. when you add a union into the mix and a lot of the "guarantees" a union gives the employees it becomes the unions that the employees owe allegiance to. Take away the accountability and you get mediocrity in a lot of areas. to be certain, US automakers have sucked for the past 30 years.

Your post is well written but I have to disagree about the unions. The unions are not to blame. Further, unions would not exist if fair wages and working conditions were paid at the start. Remember, unions came into play because company owners paid very little, and demanded 12 hour work days or more. 1 man cannot possibly make an impact on a large firm. However if workers unite they then have the ability to make an impact.

Yes, workers owe allegance to the unions. There is nothing wrong with that. The company can choose to close shop. If the company closes shop, the workers are out of work. This is something that has to be dealt with. It was proven especially true in the automakers. But it still comes back to the simple point. People will work for what they are willing to accept. A union is just a barganing tool, nothing more.

It is far easier to tell your boss you want a raise if its you and the entire factory stopping work, not just yourself. On the flipside, the owner can just choose to close up shop. Both sides have something to gain and something to lose, no victims here.
 

[H]ecklerKoc[H]

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - November 2010
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Calling the Ark Hotel a build in the classic sense is a complete cheat. When floor sections arrive prefabricated and application of the word "build" is a dilution of the term as compared to something like a regular build. Think they waited for the floor concrete to dry?

That said, the construction effort is cool and points the way to how all builds of this size should be made in today's world. Maybe... But then I am not sure I would sleep in an Los Angeles hotel with floor section made in China. At least not yet.
 
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[trash men should be paid better]...A salesman is just a glorified con man so IMO should be paid the least.
When it comes to throwing a trash bag into a truck, that skill is possessed by pretty much every able-bodied male in the US. When it comes to things like management and HR, a lot of people just don't have the skills to do those jobs, or have the skills but no desire to do those jobs.
Since the majority of transactions in a monetary system are predicated on convincing the party who holds the money(fiat or not) to give you some of it, then skills that are related to encouraging that transfer are useful for the parties who wish to receive money in exchange for goods and services.
Of course there are the lovely non-negotiable transfers by the real con men, but you need a (D) or (R) in front of your name and a desk in a "gun free zone" to pull off those kinds of con jobs.
 

DogChainX

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No offense, but you're delusional. Management is for people who DID the shitty work getting paid crappily for years (getting experience) and moved up the ladder.... OR it's for people who took a shot and opened their own company that was successful but most likely took YEARS to grind out until it became successful (much like my own experience).

I worked for a couple years in retail and in factories, and let me tell you - you deserve to never get paid more than $20/hr. Ever. You're a robo-tron because you opt to be. I decided that shit wasn't for me, went to school getting two degrees in my chosen field and then decided to work for myself.

People are compensated more because they had to sacrifice for years in school / putting themselves through school, and because they have a particular skillset that isn't common, and consequently they are valuable and not expendable. It's simple supply and demand, everyone knows how to push a broom, not too many people know surgery, or programming, or aviation etc.

Furthermore, in my field, I'm constantly learning new techniques every single day, but there's only so many ways you can turn a wrench or push a broom... Why shouldn't I make more?

+ This
 

mortonP

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No offense, but you're delusional. Management is for people who DID the shitty work getting paid crappily for years (getting experience) and moved up the ladder.... OR it's for people who took a shot and opened their own company that was successful but most likely took YEARS to grind out until it became successful (much like my own experience).

I worked for a couple years in retail and in factories, and let me tell you - you deserve to never get paid more than $20/hr. Ever. You're a robo-tron because you opt to be. I decided that shit wasn't for me, went to school getting two degrees in my chosen field and then decided to work for myself.

People are compensated more because they had to sacrifice for years in school / putting themselves through school, and because they have a particular skillset that isn't common, and consequently they are valuable and not expendable. It's simple supply and demand, everyone knows how to push a broom, not too many people know surgery, or programming, or aviation etc.

Furthermore, in my field, I'm constantly learning new techniques every single day, but there's only so many ways you can turn a wrench or push a broom... Why shouldn't I make more?

Management are mostly Hitler wannabe personality disorder types that think they are better than others because they actually buy into the BS hierarchical system set up by society. Owner/management is another situation that I was not alluding to. I'm talking about your bog standard climb the ladder over achiever types, or what I prefer to refer to as mini-Hitlers.
 

mortonP

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When it comes to throwing a trash bag into a truck, that skill is possessed by pretty much every able-bodied male in the US. When it comes to things like management and HR, a lot of people just don't have the skills to do those jobs, or have the skills but no desire to do those jobs.

Really? I've never worked as a garbage collector but I expect doing door to door garbage collection in a residential neighbourhood requires someone that is quite fit and strong and willing to put up with the smell eight hours a day. Quality that most management types do not posses. Why do you think someone working with their brain is worth more than someone working with their body? They are both qualities of equal value to society so should be paid the same or similar. Most people have redeeming qualities of some type and just because someone is better being dictatorial and has the gift of the gab does not mean they have greater value. Do you put art on your walls? If you like art then why are most artists dirt poor? Because society does not value them the same as some dillweed who thinks raping the earth of its resources for monetary gain is a great idea. To me an artists has far greater value and yet are one of the worst treated members of society.
 

mortonP

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Whatever. Just because you buy into the BS you have been told to believe does not mean you are right. Historically, your type has usually been proven wrong eventually and my type has always been treated with disdain and ostracized from society. Nothings changed in over 5, 000 years and never will because that is human nature. Go with the flow and don't rock the boat, eh? Well, fuck that shit.
 

jiminator

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Really? I've never worked as a garbage collector but I expect doing door to door garbage collection in a residential neighbourhood requires someone that is quite fit and strong and willing to put up with the smell eight hours a day. Quality that most management types do not posses. Why do you think someone working with their brain is worth more than someone working with their body? They are both qualities of equal value to society so should be paid the same or similar. Most people have redeeming qualities of some type and just because someone is better being dictatorial and has the gift of the gab does not mean they have greater value. Do you put art on your walls? If you like art then why are most artists dirt poor? Because society does not value them the same as some dillweed who thinks raping the earth of its resources for monetary gain is a great idea. To me an artists has far greater value and yet are one of the worst treated members of society.
I don't know of any door to door trash collection any more. in our area they distribute huge trash cans. there are two types of garbage trucks. one has a huge claw arm that picks up the trash can and empties it in the truck. another has a flipper on the back, where a second guy rolls it out to the flipper, hits a switch and the trash gets dumped in. Now I am not saying I don't value their work. But when you get a job, there should be some type of career path involved. Sorry, but anybody that is working an entry level job for 50 years is an idiot. It should not be up to the government or unions to take care of him if he cannot take care of himself.
 

RyanLucier

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Really? I've never worked as a garbage collector but I expect doing door to door garbage collection in a residential neighbourhood requires someone that is quite fit and strong and willing to put up with the smell eight hours a day. Quality that most management types do not posses. Why do you think someone working with their brain is worth more than someone working with their body? They are both qualities of equal value to society so should be paid the same or similar.

It's simple supply and demand:
If you took a completely random sampling of 1000 males and said who here can perform surgery, dentristry, or programming? You might get lets say 30 hands raised. If you said who here can pick up a garbage can and empty it, practically everyone would raise their hand... why would a garbage man be paid equally with someone who went to school for years to learn their craft and has a unique skill?
 

RyanLucier

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Oh and one more thing, I work with my brain every day, and if I don't get a proper nights sleep, I simply cannot perform my duties. Period. The day is a wash. I literally HAVE to get 8 hours of sleep or I'm useless the next day...

Back when I used to work at Chryslers years ago, I used to go partying on friday night knowing full well I had to work saturday, get 2-3 hours sleep and go to work with a hangover and have absolutely NO problem performing my job. A person who works with their brain has to take care of themselves, because they can't simply "robo-tron" their job, they have to be fully aware and able to process everything...
 
Joined
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Messages
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Really? I've never worked as a garbage collector but I expect doing door to door garbage collection in a residential neighbourhood requires someone that is quite fit and strong and willing to put up with the smell eight hours a day. Quality that most management types do not posses. Why do you think someone working with their brain is worth more than someone working with their body? They are both qualities of equal value to society so should be paid the same or similar. Most people have redeeming qualities of some type and just because someone is better being dictatorial and has the gift of the gab does not mean they have greater value. Do you put art on your walls? If you like art then why are most artists dirt poor? Because society does not value them the same as some dillweed who thinks raping the earth of its resources for monetary gain is a great idea. To me an artists has far greater value and yet are one of the worst treated members of society.

Really? You mean if your family were hungry, you couldn't throw trash into a truck 8hrs a day? As an able bodied male, your skills you develop increase your employment capacity beyond being able to lift and shovel. You really think that someone who can coordinate the activities of 15+ people in addition to being able-bodied is worth LESS than someone who is simply able-bodied? Do you put art on your walls? If you like art then how did you get it? Did someone manage the logistics and supply chain to get that you? Do you have something besides hyperbole and conjecture?
 

Basalt

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So much liberal - conservative bickering, when will you learn it doesn't matter what system is in place, at the end of the day there is still someone on top calling the shots, and he doesn't go home in a rickshaw.

As for the original topic, that's still an impressive display of planning, organization and execution.
 

Basalt

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Jan 22, 2008
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I understood that this was a residential structure. Additional photos of the building show hollow support piles instead of a solid concrete structure thus providing little or no structural support. Excavation adjacent to the building undermined structural support thus allowing the building to collapse.

Pilings are insubstantial, no doubt, more importantly, besides being hollow, they appear only roughly 30% of the diameter they should have been. There probably should have been a denser pattern of pilings as well.

As to whether the shoddy engineering design was intentional, one would have to see the actual foundation plans that were submitted for approval and know the relationship between the C.E. firm and the Developers.

But I believe the excavation of underground parking was not part of the design plan and was a direct cause in the actual failure. No way could those pilings be expected to work in an exposed free standing environment against lateral shear, so granted, if it had not collapsed, then there was a good chance wind force would have brought it down later.

The developers were definitely cutting corners there and probably skimming a lot of money from backers. So this failure is akin to the kiss of death for them in many ways.

Based upon government response to the case http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8636446.stm they received life sentences. One wonders if that's better than the two that were executed over the bad formula affair. Probably a coin toss.

The Chinese are going through a painful period in their industrialization that Europe and North America suffered through over century ago, it's almost like watching living history in a way.
 

polemos4u

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I haul garbage and have for 23 years. The prerequisites for employment are a clean driving record with a Class A or B CDL, medical card, read write follow instructions and so on.
Once hired you are expected to safely maneuver a thirty ton truck in all weather conditions around the city/rural area you are assigned. You are also expected to work smart and avoid physical injury this goes without saying in all industries.

Can anyone do this type of work? No
Sorry but I have seen degree holders wash out after a year reason = accidents.
Able body men and women who are strong and smart wash out reason = injury.
Smart friendly men with great work ethics wash out reason = not fast enough.

I am a professional. It is not my capital at risk when I start the truck in the morning, or shut it off at the end of the shift. I am driving a huge moving poster board for the company, and their ability to remain in business is in part up to me. The level at which I am compensated takes in several factors geography, amount of available workers, other companies in the area to name a few.

44k in wages last year
 

mynamehere

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Did anybody notice that there's no elevator and only one set of stairs for the 15 story building?

As others have said, wouldn't pass inspection here in the US. Great publicity stunt though.
Sure it would...given enough money for kickbacks, palm greasing & general all around payoffs.

Our fine Union boys could have done this no problem (though the project would have gone WAY over time & budget).
 

dajet24

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not impressive you can do anything fast with no rules and communism by your side.

Now the Empire State Building was impressive .. because it was 1931 ffs
 

H@RD5

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2 days to make 2 hours for the glue to and chewing gum to begin to come undone and the building to fail.
 
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it probably takes a year or more just to get clearance to build anything here, not to mention greasing the union guys palms, bribing politicians and applying for permits, only to have some doucher complain about the noise and visual impact on his quality of life and having to litigate that bullshit for 6 months.

I am just kidding, kinda.

You're right tho, but only here in the U.S. :D
 

DogChainX

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Whatever. Just because you buy into the BS you have been told to believe does not mean you are right. Historically, your type has usually been proven wrong eventually and my type has always been treated with disdain and ostracized from society. Nothings changed in over 5, 000 years and never will because that is human nature. Go with the flow and don't rock the boat, eh? Well, fuck that shit.

Wow. Just wow. :rolleyes:
 

petertew

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Management are mostly Hitler wannabe personality disorder types that think they are better than others because they actually buy into the BS hierarchical system set up by society. Owner/management is another situation that I was not alluding to. I'm talking about your bog standard climb the ladder over achiever types, or what I prefer to refer to as mini-Hitlers.

I've had some managers I've disagreed with to the point of anger, but I don't think I've ever had one that aspired to be Hitler, let alone one that aspired to commit genocide. If you tone down your arguments (i.e. don't label groups or individuals as Nazi-esque) people might take you and your arguments a little more seriously.
 

spinelli

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No that is bad work ethic, or just plain ignorance in that they are not qualified (i.e. being an electrician not simply having done electrical work, ditto for plumbing, structural work, etc) which most likely is the case. A billion day laborers and all that rot. An electrician who does crappy work, even if he's told to cut corners, has no work ethics because they know better.

Work ethics come a far second to having food to eat. Knock it off. If somebody with superior work ethics by your standard if refuses to do the work as asked, somebody else will take his place and have food to eat. Work ethics by your definition are meaningless. You have to actually work to have work ethics. Not many people in any country will sacrifice their well being for something as subjective as 'ethics'.

Ethics are for people who have options.

I have no doubt all or most of the workers have solid work ethics, to do that kind of job in China pretty much demands a much higher work ethic than many in the West are used to. Yes, they will cut corners if they are told or maybe of they are not told, but hard work is hard work and I doubt anyone who took part in this project will shy away from hard work or call in sick because they have a sniffle. Ethics are completely subjective.
 

TechLarry

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I remember the one with the truck hitting a wall that basically turns itself into a suitcase.

i agree with those that say who cares how fast the chinese can build things, one good thing to youtube is chinese crash test.
 

eon

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Not just complexity but how laborious it is too. You think becoming a robotron for 8 - 12 hours a day is an easy task? You want to talk about over paid? Just look around you at all the people in management that do next to nothing and get paid four fold what the actual workers do. How is that fair in any way? Management is for people too lazy to do any real work. I subscribe to the communist theory that every worker's job is just as important as the next person's job because a society with no garbage collectors just would not be able to run very well at all. Sure if you put in more effort to get training for a certain job you should be compensated for it but there are plenty of people in sales and management that have no skills at all except a big mouth and are willing to treat their fellow man like shit. A salesman is just a glorified con man so IMO should be paid the least.
wow come on. Yes being some lego assembler is a very boring job. But that in no way means they deserve to get paid the ridiculous salary and benefits they get. Im not a fan of bad managers either who simply grabbed an MBA from some school that hands them out like candy or either kissed butt or had inside connections to get their position. But there are plenty more that worked hard for their management positions. And either way it still doesnt justify an almost skill-less job making so much.
 

jiminator

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eh, its one thing to have a degree and another thing to manage people. managers need to be able to get results from their employees. good managers may inspire or help, evil managers may use fear, but sucky managers just suck and do not produce any results.
 

KingSmoth

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The Chinese could have built Rome in a day, it just would have fallen over instead of burned down.
 

beowulf7

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Someone sent me this story late last week. Amazing, even if it is pre-fab, but I wonder how sturdy it will be. I also doubt their claim that no one was hurt during construction.
 

SuperSparky

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Oct 6, 2004
Messages
126
Yeah, and you need eight union guys per light bulb.

No kidding, want to know what the USA was like before government bureaucrats and sapping unions? Simple, look at the empire state building; a 102 story granite and steel behemoth erected in (1930) 1 year and 45 days. You know, back in the days when America made its own steel, heck made most of the stuff for the rest of the world.

The construction was so fast, the steel girders that were shipped in truck after truck, was still warm from the forging process! That sucker had a WWII bomber slam into it and shrugged it off.

That Chinese hotel was Legos, a prefab.
 

SuperSparky

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Messages
126
Pilings are insubstantial, no doubt, more importantly, besides being hollow, they appear only roughly 30% of the diameter they should have been. There probably should have been a denser pattern of pilings as well.

As to whether the shoddy engineering design was intentional, one would have to see the actual foundation plans that were submitted for approval and know the relationship between the C.E. firm and the Developers.

But I believe the excavation of underground parking was not part of the design plan and was a direct cause in the actual failure. No way could those pilings be expected to work in an exposed free standing environment against lateral shear, so granted, if it had not collapsed, then there was a good chance wind force would have brought it down later.

The developers were definitely cutting corners there and probably skimming a lot of money from backers. So this failure is akin to the kiss of death for them in many ways.

Based upon government response to the case http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8636446.stm they received life sentences. One wonders if that's better than the two that were executed over the bad formula affair. Probably a coin toss.

The Chinese are going through a painful period in their industrialization that Europe and North America suffered through over century ago, it's almost like watching living history in a way.

Yeah, that part where Mao Tse Tong committed genocide by killing and starving nearly 60 million Chinese was also a minor growing pain as well...yeah, good times.
 

jiminator

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china is having a lot of growing pains, same as the us had early last century.
luckily for them they can perhaps learn from our mistakes before going too far along those paths.
that being said, they should not get knocked for being innovators.
Cost of prefab materials is likely greater, but the labor, no comparison there.
 

ianken

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"Believe it or not, the hotel is rated level 9 Earthquake Resistance."

At least that's what the papers said after the bribe was paid.
 
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