Bad move China.... All the great civilizations in history had thriving arts and cultural programs
Culture and art did just fine before they became university programs for kids who didn't make it in legitimate courses.
It will do fine after.
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Bad move China.... All the great civilizations in history had thriving arts and cultural programs
Culture and art did just fine before they became university programs for kids who didn't make it in legitimate courses.
It will do fine after.
Which is why we have thousands upon thousands of college students graduating with completely worthless liberal arts degrees and wondering why they can't get a job higher than the cash register at McDonalds and bitching they can't afford their 100k loans.
People need to learn that Culture and Art are wonderful enriching things..but they are not a Viable major college degree.
This is why China is and will continue to beat the ever-loving crap out of the US. They can make unpopular but necessary decisions. How stupid is it to loan an 18 year old 150k to get a philosophy degree? How stupid is it when the government backs unconditionally each and every one of these loans? How stupid is it that our country has a massive shortage of engineers and scientists? Well that last one may just be propaganda since salaries are not rising.
College degrees aren't viable on the scale we produce them, period. If everyone switched to STEM fields, we'd just have that many more unemployed lab techs and engineers. Elite institutions probably can produce great thinkers, simply because they attract lots of very smart and highly motivated people from many different fields (yes, including art and culture - see UC Berkley and Pixar/Dreamworks), put them in the same place, and encourage them to talk to each other.
But you can't take someone with an IQ of 100 and average motivation, ship him to a genius manufacturing facility for four years, and turn out an Einstein. There has to be a shorter, less expensive option so the average person can obtain job training.
+1 it is an inconvenient truth, but true nontheless. They're filling their universities with students who are going to have good productive capacity after they graduate, not some pie-in-the-sky arts and crafts BS. Once they're GDP leapfrogs ours in 10 years they'll have as much arts and crafts as they want.
I'd like to point out, first, that you might have been able to find a job in the "area you was learning", but if you can't English to properly articulate yourself, you don't have a hell of a lot of space to criticize someone else that's been successful.
Secondly, one of the benefits of living in a first world nation is being able to become educated for the purpose of the education itself rather than having to focus that education towards a specific career and not learning anything outside the scope of what you need to practice a particular trade. As someone that went to a liberal arts high school that makes anything below an ivy league college look like a joke, then on to one of the best art colleges in the country, and then on to law school, I have to say that the breadth and variety of my education has enriched my life incredibly. I'm fortunate to have had the financial and mental capacity to focus on and benefit from learning many different subjects. I prefer to more than a single use tool, and be instead, a creator, and to be able to fashion myself into whatever sort of implement that I want, or have the impulse, to be.
If you don't have the capacity to become more that a single use person, don't criticize those that rise above.
At least this ensures our supply of cheap labor from China for decades to come. Until they encourage creativity rather than rote memorization, they'll always be the bitch of more creative cultures.
Well there go all the Arts majors
By the way, Alan Greenspan was a Juilliard student. Playing the clarinet got him into NYU and Columbia. Yup, his "pie-in-the-sky arts and crafts BS" sure was a waste. ...what a failure he turned out to be!
Bad move China.... All the great civilizations in history had thriving arts and cultural programs
Usually subsidized by insanely rich nobility.Bad move China.... All the great civilizations in history had thriving arts and cultural programs
I assume you realize that the very first 'higher learning' institutions were exclusively devoted to literature and philosophy, with art following closely behind? And that "vocational" education at the university-level you are referring to being a very, very recent fad in human history?
Perhaps some majors/fields are better left as hobbies rather than fulltime professions, there's nothing stopping a doctor or engineer from pursuing their passion for, say for example, art, music or literature, that's what elective courses are for, helping people have a balanced and well-rounded helping of knowledge to build upon or find fulfillments in.
Yes, but Alan Greenspan never stopped at his clarinet playing and tried to make a career out of it. Some can do that ... but they're a rare breed with amazing talent. He went on to get a PhD in economics. Nobody said to remove the concept of the arts completely. But, you can only do so much if you go to university for four years and come out with a major in Liberal Arts and nothing else. People that use a degree in arts to go on to law school, medical school, or something else are NOT the people that some folks are making fun of. They're making fun of the folks that do the Bachelor of Arts and then stop ... full stop ... and then go work at WalMart because they have no other job prospects and lots of debt. Those people deserve to be mocked for lacking a direction ... because they have no direction. If you have a goal and a good job ... obviously you're not the topic of conversation.
DAMNIT!!!! There goes my major in Transgender studies
Theres kind of a big problem with this. Though we don't really need quite some many terrible "artists" how much of scientific discovery/technology is steered toward things drempt up by authors or artists or directors?
Added to that the quality and scale of various creative industries wouldn't exactly be helped if it was just done by office workers doing it in the 2 hours free before sleep, or a doctor working a 100 hour week. There are lots of very vocational artistic jobs, your car/computer/house/clothes/city/personal possesions/internet were all probably designed by an "artist".
If you limited the sciences to "for profit" things, there would be very nothing spent on theoretical physics or dark matter/black hole type theorys. It would all just be drugs and new materials, anything which would have some immediate profit gain.
The Ministry of Education’s criteria for reducing or eliminating college majors includes consecutive years with a graduate employment rate below 60%.
Culture and art did just fine before they became university programs for kids who didn't make it in legitimate courses.
It will do fine after.
So again, why should Chinese keep college majors where half of the students can't find a job in 2 years ? Why should in fact any country keep "making" people, who have no chance to get a job ? And maybe some of you guys think too much into it, by cancelling they can easily try to push the specific schools just to cut back the number of students to reasonable numbers, producing less unemployed people and saving money too this way. If 40% of graduates can't find a job in, where is the issue with cutting back the number of students (and state funding) in those majors by 40% ?
PS: Once again, we don't talk about the US paid school system. We talk about the Chinese public school system (paid not by students or their parents, but by the state). There are paid universities in China as well, and guess what, we don't talk about them - those are not affected by this decision.
I hope all of the "arts and liberal arts majors are a waste" people here realize that things like mathematics are considered a branch of philosophy. ...and a LOT of other subjects like Economics are also considered "arts" programs.
Liberal arts majors are also a solid base to move into law, medicine, marketing or any other number of high paying jobs.
...but, hey, who needs informed information, right?
Bad move China.... All the great civilizations in history had thriving arts and cultural programs
got your cause and effect mixed up sir. when you have a thriving civilization, you can afford to spend extra money on art.
LOL!Who will man our sweat shops now?
The "first world" is not tightening anything up on immigrants. The US lets in more immigrants than any other country. However, hopefully the US starts doing something about the illegal invaders, before we do become "third world." We are more in debt than any other country. At 105% debt to GDP, we are very near bankruptcy. Greece went bankrupt @ 129% and we are projected to hit ~175% debt to GDP by 2021. The illegal invaders are a massive contribution to that problem.There are a lot of nursing, engineering, biology, physics, chemistry, basically the sciences, graduates over here. Yet that doesn't exactly help us rise from the Third World. Especially with the First World tightening things up on immigrants.
People don't look at math as a branch of philosophy. It is more like a prerequisite for engineering degrees.
I wouldn't consider a "lawyer" that great of a career. Sure it can be high paying, but the unemployment for new lawyers is staggering.
The unemployment rate for engineering and computer occupations is rising faster than for other professionals, according to the IEEE, which says first quarter labor statistics reveal a significant increase in the jobless rates among engineers.
Doesn't really matter what "people" think. It is what it is. It was developed BY philosophers and continues to be a part of philosophy (until the much higher levels where it gets very specific to certain fields).
By the way, just an FYI:
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/040609-engineer-unemployment-rate.html
There are a lot of crappy schools out there and a lot of uneducated people with degrees. Just because someone has a degree, doesn't mean they're employable.
The "first world" is not tightening anything up on immigrants. The US lets in more immigrants than any other country. However, hopefully the US starts doing something about the illegal invaders, before we do become "third world." We are more in debt than any other country. At 105% debt to GDP, we are very near bankruptcy. Greece went bankrupt @ 129% and we are projected to hit ~175% debt to GDP by 2021. The illegal invaders are a massive contribution to that problem.
Good thing your article was from 2009 and probably even statistics taken from before that.
I could care less as most employers do about the basis of math. People look at math as a requirement of engineering and science professions and it is.
People completely proficient at mathematics skills enjoy higher lower unemployment and probably a higher starting salary.
It is common sense a engineering degree not only be GPA requirements is much much harder than any philosophy degree.
People in the workforce know this.
Matt Grant, a 2009 graduate of Ohio State University, majored in chemical engineering and completed three internships. After nearly a year-long job search, he found a position -- as a waiter at a Clarion Inn.
The "first world" is not tightening anything up on immigrants. The US lets in more immigrants than any other country. However, hopefully the US starts doing something about the illegal invaders, before we do become "third world." We are more in debt than any other country. At 105% debt to GDP, we are very near bankruptcy. Greece went bankrupt @ 129% and we are projected to hit ~175% debt to GDP by 2021. The illegal invaders are a massive contribution to that problem.
Please stop your lack of understanding of economics should not be allowed to spread. Also btw the reason we are in debt is because of the wars we have been fighting. Not illegals.. ideology is blinding you to fact. Im not a liberal so dont go there either. I just like knowing the truth rather than repeating the stupidity someone said on tv.
The "first world" is not tightening anything up on immigrants. The US lets in more immigrants than any other country. However, hopefully the US starts doing something about the illegal invaders, before we do become "third world." We are more in debt than any other country. At 105% debt to GDP, we are very near bankruptcy. Greece went bankrupt @ 129% and we are projected to hit ~175% debt to GDP by 2021. The illegal invaders are a massive contribution to that problem.