China Says it Will Keep Blocking Online Content

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China tells the world to piss off as it continues to block online content. I have to say, I'm shocked. I don’t think anyone saw this move coming. :rolleyes:

China vowed Tuesday to keep a tight grip on the Internet, saying it would continue to block anything considered subversive or threatening to "national unity."
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If by they, you mean the communist party cadre, I agree. If by they as the other 1.2 billion individual that just happen to live there as well, well I ain't so sure.
 
Reimu said:
If by they, you mean the communist party cadre, I agree. If by they as the other 1.2 billion individual that just happen to live there as well, well I ain't so sure.
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Change the government then.
 
Monkey God said:
Change the government then.
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hahahaowow.jpg, ORLY.jpg. Where'd that sarcasm tag go.


O well, goes without saying that the real bone one has with China PR is the double standards that the now important regime practices. This isn't even about whether if raising concerns will yield any change anymore. Even USA is not above being called out on BSs, but the capitalist PRC is another story.
 
Americans seems to think that the Chinese government should open up their Internet access for the good of the people. The handful of Chinese people I've spoken two (both native and expats) don't feel that they're being sheltered or limited at all. Why should the rest of the world dictate what one country's policy is?

+1 to "it's their country." Once the people start feeling limited, then things will change.
 
Exactly. Most of the people complaining about how China does things aren't Chinese. Most Chinese people ive talked with are proud of their country and in general approve of how its run. Until that changes, its not our business.
 
Dock that Chink a day's pay for sleeping on the job!

... i guess... I guess that is the most appropriate thing to say here... I think....
 
Steve, you just keep right on talking. You'll be the first to know when China comes a knocking all Red Dawn style:D

Plenty of groups out there dedicated to circumventing the (great) Chinese firewall.
 
I just spent 17 days in China. There are many who have ways past the Great Firewall. I talked to one person who had a VPN connection to a server in the US that was set up by an aquaintence. There were others who said they had a way out, but were not specific. However, I could tell even this person believed much of the propaganda in the country. For the most part, I did not meet anyone that was angry with the government or how things are run.
 
synapsis said:
Americans seems to think that the Chinese government should open up their Internet access for the good of the people. The handful of Chinese people I've spoken two (both native and expats) don't feel that they're being sheltered or limited at all. Why should the rest of the world dictate what one country's policy is?

+1 to "it's their country." Once the people start feeling limited, then things will change.
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And then the U.S turns around and gives ISP the power to decide what they can block and allow for it's customers.. kettle, meet .............
 
Chiplg said:
I just spent 17 days in China. There are many who have ways past the Great Firewall. I talked to one person who had a VPN connection to a server in the US that was set up by an aquaintence. There were others who said they had a way out, but were not specific. However, I could tell even this person believed much of the propaganda in the country. For the most part, I did not meet anyone that was angry with the government or how things are run.
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There are people who are not happy but they can not be very vocal about it. Chinese are not permitted to assemble or demonstrate. However you are right, everyone I have spoken to has no issues with the gov't. Yet, they may not be aware of what their own gov't has done. The Chinese I have met tend to be extremely nationalistic, if this is due to the current growth in the country or the rising wages/middle class/standard of living or simply indoctrination I do not know.

I have a way through the Firewall but I rarely use it, the things that are blocked are not exactly vital...in fact....the lack of easy to obtain porn has been a good thing (oddly enough). Youtube garbage I can also live without and FB and Imageshack as well. The news that is censored has little real impact that I can see. It's not like there are many accurate stories about China floating about in the 'open' internet elsewhere. The Foxconn stories being a good example. First the employees were being killed because of Apple and secrecy or some shit, then it was because of the working conditions, then it was because of the death benefits.
 
synapsis said:
Americans seems to think that the Chinese government should open up their Internet access for the good of the people. The handful of Chinese people I've spoken two (both native and expats) don't feel that they're being sheltered or limited at all. Why should the rest of the world dictate what one country's policy is?

+1 to "it's their country." Once the people start feeling limited, then things will change.
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The problem with being in such a situation is that you have no basis of comparison. How do you know what freedom is if you've never had it? It's like a bird trying to explain to a turtle what it's like to fly. You can't. You have to experience it for yourself. The problem with regimes like China is that they never give their people any say in it. You're told how to live, what to do, and what to think. Alternative ways of living are forbidden, and even knowing that there is another way is heavily limited as well.

Living in a country where you're free to express your opinion, would you want to go live there and give up the freedoms you currently possess? Would you not want others to have the same opportunities and choices that you do? As to your last sentence... this is exactly why I think the US should kick the UN off its shores. America should be leading the world by example, not apologizing for being a great country and cowing before tin-pot dictatorships. It should be an example that the rest of the world can look to and say, "I want my country to be great like that", and strong enough that those who would do harm would say, "I don't want to mess with them." So I agree with you in principle on that last sentence. I just hope that the people of China will some day be given the same freedoms that Americans have enjoyed for a long time now. Then, at least, if they want to live that way it will be their own choice, and not the choice somebody else made for them.
 
Phoenix333 said:
The problem with being in such a situation is that you have no basis of comparison. How do you know what freedom is if you've never had it? It's like a bird trying to explain to a turtle what it's like to fly. You can't. You have to experience it for yourself. The problem with regimes like China is that they never give their people any say in it. You're told how to live, what to do, and what to think. Alternative ways of living are forbidden, and even knowing that there is another way is heavily limited as well.

Living in a country where you're free to express your opinion, would you want to go live there and give up the freedoms you currently possess? Would you not want others to have the same opportunities and choices that you do? As to your last sentence... this is exactly why I think the US should kick the UN off its shores. America should be leading the world by example, not apologizing for being a great country and cowing before tin-pot dictatorships. It should be an example that the rest of the world can look to and say, "I want my country to be great like that", and strong enough that those who would do harm would say, "I don't want to mess with them." So I agree with you in principle on that last sentence. I just hope that the people of China will some day be given the same freedoms that Americans have enjoyed for a long time now. Then, at least, if they want to live that way it will be their own choice, and not the choice somebody else made for them.
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No, China has already given people increasing amounts of freedom throughout the years. They know how much is the right amount and at what pace to do so, because they see Western countries and they learn from the lessons of Western countries. Believe it or not, freedoms have given Western countries a huge amount of social problems, many of which haven't been solved. From fanatics to hate speech to subversion of social order, you can't simply look at the issue from a pure freedom standpoint, and expect to be able to understand how others think. The stance the Chinese government takes is one of: "Wait and see. Let Western civilization figure out the problems. Let Western civilization experiment with the solutions. When the platform is stable, we will move, and reap the advantages."

If you look at the size of China, this is a reasonable move, because any incorrect policy that they implement has huge impact. People say that the larger the company becomes, the more rigid its policy gets, and it's the same principle here.
 
I live in Hong Kong. I am a Chinese. And we are not very happy with the way the Communist Party running China.

I have talked to a few young mainlanders about how they feel about Tiananmen Square massacre. The answer? They do not know anything. No one told them anything.

Nowadays, the philosophy is getting rich = happiness. The Communist Party does not want you to concern yourelves with politics or such. Just make money and you are happy!!! Some politicians in Hong Kong are fighting for universal suffrage in Hong Kong and are being labeled "trouble makers".

I cherish my freedom. I love my freedom. I hate being controlled. I don't need anyone to tell which websites I can visit and which I cannot. I want to know about the world and think for myself. And these are things the Communist Party does not want. They want you to be numb/ dumb/ naive.

Recently, someone has killed three judges and then committed suicide. Official news is the guy is a psycho. However, in websites everywhere people are praising the guy and saying that he is a hero. And these threads are being deleted within 10 mins after they are posted. But people keep posting.

So, please do not think that China is okay. Please do not support the Communist Party to control the Internet and say this is their country. China is not "their" country. China belong to Chinese people.
 
Allos said:
I live in Hong Kong. I am a Chinese. And we are not very happy with the way the Communist Party running China.

I have talked to a few young mainlanders about how they feel about Tiananmen Square massacre. The answer? They do not know anything. No one told them anything.

Nowadays, the philosophy is getting rich = happiness. The Communist Party does not want you to concern yourelves with politics or such. Just make money and you are happy!!! Some politicians in Hong Kong are fighting for universal suffrage in Hong Kong and are being labeled "trouble makers".

I cherish my freedom. I love my freedom. I hate being controlled. I don't need anyone to tell which websites I can visit and which I cannot. I want to know about the world and think for myself. And these are things the Communist Party does not want. They want you to be numb/ dumb/ naive.

Recently, someone has killed three judges and then committed suicide. Official news is the guy is a psycho. However, in websites everywhere people are praising the guy and saying that he is a hero. And these threads are being deleted within 10 mins after they are posted. But people keep posting.

So, please do not think that China is okay. Please do not support the Communist Party to control the Internet and say this is their country. China is not "their" country. China belong to Chinese people.
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Your country - your problem... But best of all. You've got my support though.
 
It's interesting because I have one Chinese friend that gets VERY defensive about China and all the "necessary" actions taken on behalf of the people, and I have another Chinese friend that hates her government and can't wait to get the hell out of there.

I'm pretty sure most Chinese people know how to proxy anyway.
 
Fendrix said:
It's interesting because I have one Chinese friend that gets VERY defensive about China and all the "necessary" actions taken on behalf of the people, and I have another Chinese friend that hates her government and can't wait to get the hell out of there.

I'm pretty sure most Chinese people know how to proxy anyway.
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It's really not to hard to see when someone is using a proxy, plus proxies can be blocked as well. When I was working for my school, they had a surveillance program that should every website a user visited, and could be used in real time to watch someone is doing. Proxies and suspicious websites should up in nice yellow text. :D
 
King Icewind said:
It's really not to hard to see when someone is using a proxy, plus proxies can be blocked as well. When I was working for my school, they had a surveillance program that should every website a user visited, and could be used in real time to watch someone is doing. Proxies and suspicious websites should up in nice yellow text. :D
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damn, "showed" not should. No idea why I mixed them up.:eek:
 
King Icewind said:
It's really not to hard to see when someone is using a proxy, plus proxies can be blocked as well. When I was working for my school, they had a surveillance program that should every website a user visited, and could be used in real time to watch someone is doing. Proxies and suspicious websites should up in nice yellow text. :D
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That's why your friendly neighbourhood mathematicians invented encryption.
 
keenan said:
That's why your friendly neighbourhood mathematicians invented encryption.
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Yea, but that's just a dead give away that your doing something you shouldn't be. Not greatest idea, especially with Communists.
 
King Icewind said:
Yea, but that's just a dead give away that your doing something you shouldn't be.
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The best argument for ubiquitous encryption there is.

Not greatest idea, especially with Communists.
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Plenty of people do it. Plenty of groups do their damndest to provide such services on a wide scale for Chinese, and guys leasing a few VPS boxes in the US and providing connections on a small scale are common too. Communists are not evil.
 
King Icewind said:
When ever in the world's history has this been true? :D
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Marx? Che Guevara? Cuba under Raul appears to be quite a reasonable state, if you want an operating government.

Plenty of despots have risen under the auspices of communism, but none of them have been true communists either (nor is China, for that matter, not even close). Communism itself is not inherently evil, in fact its core tenets are rather noble and laudable.

I don't believe communism can ever really work, but it's certainly not necessarily evil.
 
Allos said:
I cherish my freedom. I love my freedom. I hate being controlled. I don't need anyone to tell which websites I can visit and which I cannot. I want to know about the world and think for myself. And these are things the Communist Party does not want. They want you to be numb/ dumb/ naive.
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I've visited placed like Beijing, Shanghai, and Xi'an, and the common perception was that people there were so wonderful...No one deserves to be suppressed by a government.

Unfortunately, a government often acts only for its own security. It does not want to be replaced with a better system, since government officials can lose their power and money. The US government seems to want to be the same way, but is not yet close to the extent of China.

I wish you and the future of China the best; I hope one day China will be more respective of the individual's rights. Stay safe, and don't give up! Hopefully your word will spread to your neighbors and their neighbors!



 
Cyrilix said:
They know how much is the right amount...
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I'll fight anyone who tries to dictate to me how much freedom they think I should have. Perhaps that makes me an extremist in the eyes of some, but then I'll wear label that as a badge of honor if that's the case.

freedoms have given Western countries a huge amount of social problems, many of which haven't been solved.
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And as I always tell people who take this stance... If freedom is such a problem, get back to me when you're content living there and giving up the freedoms you currently enjoy. I'll bet you're not too eager to do that. It's always OK as long as it's someone else under the boot heel, isn't it? Human social problems are a product of the more barbaric side of human nature, not because of liberty. No system of government or economic system will ever solve those problems. Governments should exist to protect the rights of the citizenry, not to oppress them.

Allos said:
I cherish my freedom. I love my freedom. I hate being controlled. I don't need anyone to tell which websites I can visit and which I cannot. I want to know about the world and think for myself
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You have my prayers and my support. The world needs more people like you, especially in this day. Stay safe, my friend. It will be a long and hard road, but one day China may be free.
 
Phoenix333 said:
And as I always tell people who take this stance... If freedom is such a problem, get back to me when you're content living there and giving up the freedoms you currently enjoy. I'll bet you're not too eager to do that. It's always OK as long as it's someone else under the boot heel, isn't it? Human social problems are a product of the more barbaric side of human nature, not because of liberty. No system of government or economic system will ever solve those problems. Governments should exist to protect the rights of the citizenry, not to oppress them.
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Well, you can't take this stance, because the circumstances are different. It's like trying to enforce freedom in Iraq or Afghanistan. You've got to figure out a culturally-sensitive solution to their problem, not an American method that applies to everyone.

Of course I'm content living here. That speaks nothing about what should be done or what shouldn't be done. That only speaks to the fact that I enjoy my freedoms. But, just because I enjoy my freedoms doesn't mean everyone everywhere is ready to accept freedoms of the nature that I enjoy.

The difference in stance is simply one of rationality compared to one if ideals. In fact, our end goals are the same. I would like to have freedoms in China. Where we differ is in the how. I would like a model of constantly increasing happiness over time, which means that freedoms are provided piece by piece when they have been determined to be acceptable, studied by thousands of engineers, scientists, and domain knowledge experts, who have not only determined that the freedom is worth providing, but have also determined that there will be a net positive impact in its provision. Do you know how to measure the success of this method? You look at overall population happiness over time, and it has undoubtedly increased since the cultural revolution days. All I want the Chinese government to do is to continue at whatever they're doing and make people even happier, but to also be mindful of happiness bubbles or events, economical or political, that would cause a sudden drop in happiness. In other words, stable forward momentum.
 
This is hilarious... I'm in china for 2 weeks and I've already experienced the 'great firewall of china' in numerous sites.

A lot of guys in their early 20's tell me that they proxy through taiwan to get to the good stuff... gaming and probably a ton of porn. A lot of them begged me to get them a Starcraft 2 key since it won't be out in China for a long time.
 
The speed for proxying/VPNing out of china must suck though, I wouldn't want to do something bandwidth sensitive/intensive through that stuff.

At least based on my experiences at high school tunneling.
 
I'm Chinese myself and frankly I'm appalled at what those communist assholes and their ideals and how to run "their" country. I have never supported them and I never will. I feel sorry for Chinese Mainlanders how their government is treating them.
 
Cyrilix said:
Well, you can't take this stance
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I can take whatever stance I wish. I submit that I can be completely in error if I choose, and nobody can stop me from doing so. :)

Where we differ is in the how.
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You do raise some good points. In this I agree, because I reject the notion that rights are granted by governments. Governments, historically, do everything they can to restrict rights and limit freedoms. Remove government completely and there's nobody to restrict rights at all. Certainly in a state of anarchy leaders and factions would emerge that would control one group of people or another, but that again becomes a form of government. True anarchy is impossible for humans because humans are social creatures and tend to form new social hierarchies whenever existing ones are disrupted. My point is that the farther away from government and civilization you get, the more freedom you have to do as you will. Personally I agree with the signers of the Declaration of Independence, that individual rights and liberties come from a benevolent Creator, not self-serving governments or aristocracies.

I would say that our goals are similar, but as you said, we may differ in philosophy. Pragmatically speaking, short of an outright revolution I don't think the people in China will gain all their freedoms suddenly. I do think it will be a long, hard struggle, and rights will be recovered incrementally through internal civil pressure. From that perspective, I think you are correct about how it will happen, even if I would personally prefer that it happen differently.
 
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