China Is Building a Solar Power Highway

Megalith

Megalith

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China is building roadways with solar panels underneath that may soon have the ability to charge cars wirelessly and digitally assist automated vehicles. The building technique involves transparent concrete over a layer of solar panels.

The Jinan City solar highway is formed with three layers. The top layer is a transparent concrete that has similar structural properties with standard asphalt. The central layer is the solar panels – which are pointed out as being “weight bearing.” The bottom layer is to separate the solar panels from the damp earth underneath.
 
The building technique involves transparent concrete over a layer of solar panels.
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Whoa we're living in the future, when is transparent aluminum coming out?
 
So.... this would only work if very few cars are on the road, right?

I mean, if there is heavy traffic, the kind where your future electric vehicle would actually need to get that charge from the road itself, it wouldn't work, as the sun would be heating up your car roof instead of hitting the solar panels.

If there is only light traffic, and cars on the road are few and forging ahead, there really isn't any need for this.

Seems like technology for its own sake to me.
 
So.... this would only work if very few cars are on the road, right?
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I would expect this would only work if a few cars travel on the road in a day. I mean with the inefficiency in the panels and the inefficiency in the wireless charging and the amount of energy required to move a car.
 
phaze_italy said:
So.... this would only work if very few cars are on the road, right?

I mean, if there is heavy traffic, the kind where your future electric vehicle would actually need to get that charge from the road itself, it wouldn't work, as the sun would be heating up your car roof instead of hitting the solar panels.

If there is only light traffic, and cars on the road are few and forging ahead, there really isn't any need for this.

Seems like technology for its own sake to me.
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And why can't they just put regular tracking solar arrays at the side of the road? This is not just for it's own sake, this is completely pointless and stupid.
 
Again with the solar roadways? It's been debunked as something no where near economic viability. Far more expensive per kW of generation than standard panels.

Perhaps some day in limited circumstance, but not anytime soon.
 
Meh, this seems like a waste of effort, and my main reason was pointed out by phase_italy -- how well could this possibly work with heavy traffic? Put that effort towards explaining wtf a Plumbus is and what it does and or can do in layman's terms.
 
Here's what I've found with solar so far, as a guy that works in the industry.

People love solar. It's quiet, no moving parts, no maintenance - just plug and play. Pretty nice.

People don't always like the way it looks though, and you need a lot of surface area to generate any significant amount of energy. You almost never see a solar install go in where someone is also considering the price of the real estate that is needed to install - which is why most installs are going on roofs or car parking or out in the middle of BFE - because that is real estate that's already in use (or practically free) and it's not additional cost for land.

We have talked about roadside solar before. There's issues with real estate, that's up front. You could say "Well no one drives in the median" - but the median ands shoulders are clear and unobstructed for very good safety reasons - if you wanted to put solar there, you'd need to elevate it and support it just like you do road signs, and that adds a good deal of expense.

Putting it on the roadway itself is a good idea. Yes, it will be expensive as hell - but it's not my money and not my tax dollars (well, actually it probably is because we are paying interest on all that Chinese funding, but I digress). The first anything is always expensive, until they work out economy of scale. If you think of all the surface area of all the major roadways and parking lots, that would be a lot of surface area that's already in use and would be ideal to put to good use for power generation.

Wireless charging on a car going down the freeway - that's a lot more far fetched. Would be awesome though. I could see putting in RF comms in with it now though, to facilitate V2V and V2I, which would greatly impact the safety and reliability of automation, and even help with cars without automation and traffic flow/prevent jams.
 
MV75 said:
Nope.

Panels need sun on them, cars block the sun. The road gets very dirty and lots of stuff dropped on it further reducing its efficiency.

A better idea is to make the sound barrier fences a solar grid.
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Cars don't take up 100% of the surface area of a road. Even in the "worst case" condition of a 100% dead stopped traffic jam for the entire length of the highway, cars don't take up 100% of the space of a lane, for 100% of the time the sun is shining.

Would output be degraded? Yes, but it won't go to 0.

You do have a point about the dirt though. But I guess that's why they have street sweepers.

Also, don't fences tend to be vertical?
 
Brian_B said:
Cars don't take up 100% of the surface area of a road. Even in the "worst case" condition of a 100% dead stopped traffic jam for the entire length of the highway, cars don't take up 100% of the space of a lane, for 100% of the time the sun is shining.

Would output be degraded? Yes, but it won't go to 0.

You do have a point about the dirt though. But I guess that's why they have street sweepers.

Also, don't fences tend to be vertical?
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One of his many videos:


If you don't care for him try this guy:
 
Brian_B said:
Here's what I've found with solar so far, as a guy that works in the industry.

People love solar. It's quiet, no moving parts, no maintenance - just plug and play. Pretty nice.

People don't always like the way it looks though, and you need a lot of surface area to generate any significant amount of energy. You almost never see a solar install go in where someone is also considering the price of the real estate that is needed to install - which is why most installs are going on roofs or car parking or out in the middle of BFE - because that is real estate that's already in use (or practically free) and it's not additional cost for land.

We have talked about roadside solar before. There's issues with real estate, that's up front. You could say "Well no one drives in the median" - but the median ands shoulders are clear and unobstructed for very good safety reasons - if you wanted to put solar there, you'd need to elevate it and support it just like you do road signs, and that adds a good deal of expense.

Putting it on the roadway itself is a good idea. Yes, it will be expensive as hell - but it's not my money and not my tax dollars (well, actually it probably is because we are paying interest on all that Chinese funding, but I digress). The first anything is always expensive, until they work out economy of scale. If you think of all the surface area of all the major roadways and parking lots, that would be a lot of surface area that's already in use and would be ideal to put to good use for power generation.

Wireless charging on a car going down the freeway - that's a lot more far fetched. Would be awesome though. I could see putting in RF comms in with it now though, to facilitate V2V and V2I, which would greatly impact the safety and reliability of automation, and even help with cars without automation and traffic flow/prevent jams.
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Have a solar farm in a desert and transport it to where it needs to go. It will be cheaper.
 
Brian_B said:
We have talked about roadside solar before. There's issues with real estate, that's up front. You could say "Well no one drives in the median" - but the median ands shoulders are clear and unobstructed for very good safety reasons - if you wanted to put solar there, you'd need to elevate it and support it just like you do road signs, and that adds a good deal of expense.
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You actually thinking of putting solar panels into the road in cities? So in addition to the huge traffic also roadside buildings can block the sun? Why not cover the panels in tar why we're at it, that should be the best! The only place solar panels inside the road would stand a chance to generate any meaningful amount of power is outside cities, where there is low - medium traffic at most. And also that's where is it a good idea to charge electric cars on the move. You don't need to charge in the city in stop and go traffic, their consumption is minimal in a city. But going long distance between two towns, they like that less. But between two towns there is nothing besides the roads. So why not just use roadside arrays?. A few parcels in the middle of nowhere have little value. Besides there is enough space near the road inside the road parcel to fit a few rows of panels there, so the state probably won't even need to buy any land. Besides road maintenance would be a nightmare for these kinds of roads, all the wiring inside the road, either have to be built with extreme redundancy, or you can take the road apart every time a wire comes loose or a panel dies. Why not just have them in the open where both the panels and wring is easily accessible, and replaceable if necessary?

Putting it on the roadway itself is a good idea. Yes, it will be expensive as hell - but it's not my money and not my tax dollars (well, actually it probably is because we are paying interest on all that Chinese funding, but I digress). The first anything is always expensive, until they work out economy of scale. If you think of all the surface area of all the major roadways and parking lots, that would be a lot of surface area that's already in use and would be ideal to put to good use for power generation.
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This type of thinking is at the root of many problems we face today "It's not my money Let's waste it!" Why does it matter whose money it is? Waste is waste, I Don't want anything wasted if it can be used smarter. Not taxes, not loans, nothing. It's about sustainability. Why would we want something that is not the most efficient or the best that we could build? Public property and government investments (no matter where the money comes from) are not nobody's problem, it's everybody's.

In what sense is it a good idea?
  • We have no place for it elsewhere? Yes we have.
  • Is it cheaper? NO
  • Will it be more efficient? Not by a long shot
Then how is it a good idea? It would be cheaper and better in every sense to put the panels over the road, with some light support structure. You won't even have to touch the road surface just place pre-fabricated consoles. Without even having to close the road for any significant period.
 
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Brian_B said:
Here's what I've found with solar so far, as a guy that works in the industry.

People love solar. It's quiet, no moving parts, no maintenance - just plug and play. Pretty nice.

People don't always like the way it looks though, and you need a lot of surface area to generate any significant amount of energy. You almost never see a solar install go in where someone is also considering the price of the real estate that is needed to install - which is why most installs are going on roofs or car parking or out in the middle of BFE - because that is real estate that's already in use (or practically free) and it's not additional cost for land.

We have talked about roadside solar before. There's issues with real estate, that's up front. You could say "Well no one drives in the median" - but the median ands shoulders are clear and unobstructed for very good safety reasons - if you wanted to put solar there, you'd need to elevate it and support it just like you do road signs, and that adds a good deal of expense.

Putting it on the roadway itself is a good idea. Yes, it will be expensive as hell - but it's not my money and not my tax dollars (well, actually it probably is because we are paying interest on all that Chinese funding, but I digress). The first anything is always expensive, until they work out economy of scale. If you think of all the surface area of all the major roadways and parking lots, that would be a lot of surface area that's already in use and would be ideal to put to good use for power generation.

Wireless charging on a car going down the freeway - that's a lot more far fetched. Would be awesome though. I could see putting in RF comms in with it now though, to facilitate V2V and V2I, which would greatly impact the safety and reliability of automation, and even help with cars without automation and traffic flow/prevent jams.
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There are so many reasons solar is a bad idea for a roadway. watch the videos posted here so I don't have to explain them. Seriously, just build a canopy twice the width of the road and run it 20 ft above the road, boom, you've solved nearly all of the major issues with using it as the road, and it's gonna be so much fucking cheaper to use. I don't get why this is still even a conversation, this has been shot down for years now
 
Meaker said:
Have a solar farm in a desert and transport it to where it needs to go. It will be cheaper.
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There's still issues with sand gucking up the panels and what not but this is hands down WAYYYYYY better then the idea of roads. Plus we already know how well the desert idea works, it's already in use. WE already know roads won't work but F it why not waste all that money lol
 
Tell us China, how are you going to power these road ways when the sun can't penetrate the smog layer?
 
A solar driveway might make sense if you were rich, had a big enough driveway, did not care for solar roof tiles, but still wanted a relatively hidden solar solution. Actual public roads does not currently make much sense given all of the draw backs.
 
While the math from the EEVblog guy seems sound, I can't take him seriously every time he pronouned LED as the word "led" instead of saying "L E D" ... talk about finger nails on the chalkboard for me "The leds have a viewing angle of..." argh! stop it!
 
tikiman2012 said:
The US is losing the solar race at an unbelievable pace.
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Yes, the U.S. is always losing at something. I think it's interesting because history has shown that leapfrogging with technology (also known as letting someone else do the work) tends to be more efficient. So while our universities (which remain the best in the world by far) are investing in new companies and research, China can whip its population into building solar roads that will have to be endlessly maintained and eventually upgraded while a decade or two from now when the technology is perfected we'll be able to use it where it's most beneficial...while already researching the successor.

I remember some years ago people were saying the U.S. was up to ten years behind on HD broadcasting. Yet today we have 55", 4k televisions that retail for less than $400 and are the home of every major streaming service all while having record numbers of people cord-cutting. So should we really have been alarmed that the EU had 1080p cable so far before us?
 
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nightfly said:
Ahhh, luddites.
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I don't see anyone in this thread hating on the technology out of fear/hatedred of that technology or of change, but rather because it just does not make technical or fiscal sense in this particular application of that technology.
 
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Upkeep and maintenance.

Transparent concrete... probably hard to see any fractures and the inevitable pot holes.
 
Brian_B said:
Cars don't take up 100% of the surface area of a road. Even in the "worst case" condition of a 100% dead stopped traffic jam for the entire length of the highway, cars don't take up 100% of the space of a lane, for 100% of the time the sun is shining.

Would output be degraded? Yes, but it won't go to 0.

You do have a point about the dirt though. But I guess that's why they have street sweepers.

Also, don't fences tend to be vertical?
Click to expand...

Look at the solar roadways demo. It has yet to produce more power than it consumes.

And laying it flat pretty much assures that a PV cell sees only a tiny fraction of the light it would get on a regular panel's orientation.

Add to that the "transparent concrete" will be more "translucent" and you're cutting down power even further.

Investing millions for the sake of enough power to MAYE charge a single car battery's worth of power a year?

Not a good investment.

The physics just don't work.
 
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