dgz
Supreme [H]ardness
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Not buying it. Besides, bashing "China" has become a daily ritual for some here. It's only natural to hate on the competition. Means you're scared
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China Embedded Spy Chips On Supermicro Motherboards
- Thread starter AlphaAtlas
- Start date
Maybe read a little closer?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
Sounding credible to me, no matter how in vogue China Bashing may be today.
blackacidevil
Gawd
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cdr_74_premium
[H]ard|Gawd
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Not only that, if you care, you won't get paid. Probably never again.
cdr_74_premium
[H]ard|Gawd
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I wouldn't be surprised.
SnowBeast
[H]ard|Gawd
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https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-most-freedom-in-the-world-2018-4
BullfuckingShit. U.S.A. ranked 58. It maybe just a show but the stats are facts:
Best said at 2:50 Fast Forward
I am no china basher, but it's silly to say this can't be true. And if this is true, this is a strong reason for moving tech manufacturing out of China. It'd take time, but this isn't the first time intelligence has found issues with China, though I believe this would be the first time we've found them doing something to an American companies products that is manufactured in China.
I'm concerned.
I agree...and if peeps look through our history, you'll see Icpiper and I disagree more often than not (though he has mellowed in his old age
)Cmdrmonkey
Gawd
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Let’s manufacture everything including sensitive server equipment in a hostile communist country. What could possibly go wrong?
SighTurtle
[H]ard|Gawd
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Anyone who isn't buying that China couldn't be doing this should probably ask themselves if they believe the U.S Government does this sort of stuff (hint they do), then ask themselves why any other country with the capability and the need to defend their interests against the U.S wouldn't try the same. (Not to mention the many, many reports of Chinese copyright infringement, stolen tech, Chinese spies, etc, etc.)
So what now? Pretty simple. One, the U.S Government mandates that sensitive equipment for government use be American-made (wholly, no sub part this made in Taiwan and assembled in U.S crap)
Two, America ensures the needed funding is there for companies to exist to supply the sensitive equipment.
Maybe it's all a ploy to get us to hate China, rah, rah, rah. Bullcrap. Here's the deal, for any America vs. China, I'm always gonna choose U.S for one reason only, China suppresses it's citizens and is repressive. End stop.
So ya, I'm gonna "bash" China, I'm gonna worry about China, I'm gonna wonder about the competition. I'm gonna raise my eyebrows, I'm gonna expect my government to do something about it. What's wrong with that?
So what now? Pretty simple. One, the U.S Government mandates that sensitive equipment for government use be American-made (wholly, no sub part this made in Taiwan and assembled in U.S crap)
Two, America ensures the needed funding is there for companies to exist to supply the sensitive equipment.
Maybe it's all a ploy to get us to hate China, rah, rah, rah. Bullcrap. Here's the deal, for any America vs. China, I'm always gonna choose U.S for one reason only, China suppresses it's citizens and is repressive. End stop.
So ya, I'm gonna "bash" China, I'm gonna worry about China, I'm gonna wonder about the competition. I'm gonna raise my eyebrows, I'm gonna expect my government to do something about it. What's wrong with that?
N4CR
Supreme [H]ardness
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Hahaha, glad the last supermicro xeon rigs I had built were always airgapped.
Real story is they all have backdoors of some kind, be it IME, supermicro chinese backdoors, various firmware controllers, wireless payloads in gig/usb ports embedded in high value targets for airgapping etc...
Real story is they all have backdoors of some kind, be it IME, supermicro chinese backdoors, various firmware controllers, wireless payloads in gig/usb ports embedded in high value targets for airgapping etc...
Building out critical infrastructure using parts sourced from our enemies is as best stupid and at worst treason.
And China is our enemy, much more than Russia is.
Master_shake_
Fully [H]
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CTS labs strikes again
Smells like Stock manipulation
Smells like Stock manipulation
When did Taiwan become an adversary? Last time I checked, they hated China more than we do.
You're not wrong, but Taiwan is pretty firmly one of our allies. You might even consider it a client state.
I don't doubt that both countries would want to do something like this to each other, but the methods published in the article seem questionable, and for all we know their inside anonymous sources at Apple could be a few conspiracy theorists at the genius bar.
Additionally, most servers running anything data related would probably be in a zone blocked off to everything but middle tier servers, and the unusual network traffic connection attempts should quickly be detected by an IDS or network traffic sniffer.
More likely something like this would happen via a zero day but that wouldn't make an interesting "investigative reporting" article.
Additionally, most servers running anything data related would probably be in a zone blocked off to everything but middle tier servers, and the unusual network traffic connection attempts should quickly be detected by an IDS or network traffic sniffer.
More likely something like this would happen via a zero day but that wouldn't make an interesting "investigative reporting" article.
Not at all.
Not unless you make a big distinction between directly inserting vulnerabilities into the equipment presumably at the factory, and simply creating fake products and selling them to CISCO Channel partners in order to push them into the supply chain.
https://www.crn.com/news/networking...at-center-of-fbi-raid-on-counterfeit-gear.htm
D
Deleted member 133315
Guest
WTF Cunt’s,
Seriously, first strike = win.
Lets do it now, better yet, fake good relations until the chinese new year in february, then boom, the whole fucking lot of them.
All there base really will belong to us. Fuck you, I’m included, as I’m nato. USA don’t get to have all that fun without me.
Seriously, first strike = win.
Lets do it now, better yet, fake good relations until the chinese new year in february, then boom, the whole fucking lot of them.
All there base really will belong to us. Fuck you, I’m included, as I’m nato. USA don’t get to have all that fun without me.
EchtoGammut
2[H]4U
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I don't doubt China wants to do this and has done this on consumer hardware. I've just been involved in all levels of PCB fabrication and development and it's a lot more difficult than people imagine. The article tries to paint the picture of Supermicro being a secretly Chinese company in San Jose. Yes, they speak Mandarin, but they are Taiwanese, not Chinese. Taiwan is culturally very different than China. Anyone who has done manufacturing in China knows that you have to oversee all operations if you want to reliably produce products. Hell, when I was producing in China, I had an Australian agent who would store all the reels, test beds and files and he would show up on production days with all the material and watch each production run.
If this is true, the is going be very bad for Apple and Amazon after vehemently denying it. The EU and US government will smash so hard on them, that they might have to pay a small fine and issue a apology for this, while not admitting to guilt.
If this is true, the is going be very bad for Apple and Amazon after vehemently denying it. The EU and US government will smash so hard on them, that they might have to pay a small fine and issue a apology for this, while not admitting to guilt.
This is company wrecking lawsuit territory. Bloomberg has to have its story well documented, with hardware samples, ready for the trial. Presumably the US government approved the publication against the backdrop of the current trade friction.
Still, it is difficult to understand how Bloomberg could be motivated to run this story. This report will poison Bloomberg's name in China for a long time.
Still, it is difficult to understand how Bloomberg could be motivated to run this story. This report will poison Bloomberg's name in China for a long time.
SighTurtle
[H]ard|Gawd
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Taiwan is indeed a American ally and "client state" in some ways (umm...i might disagree on that), but you guys ignore the expanding economic links between Taiwan and the Mainland. Heres a article from the WSJ on Chinese attempts to get Taiwanese tech and personnel. Heres one on the increasing Taiwanese-Chinese economic links, where China now accounts for 30% of Taiwan's total trade, and is its largest trading partner. Note that also many Taiwanese companies now have manufacturing in China, so who knows how much the "Made in Taiwan" is true, vs parts made in China, then shipped to Taiwan, then packaged with the "Made in Taiwan" before heading to the U.S. Finally, Taiwanese manufacturing capability is not American manufacturing, so in the very last resort of war, blockade, etc, creating American capability to replace Taiwanese factories is also paramount.
Especially in a scenario where Taiwan is under blockade. Its just a good practice to ensure sensitive equipment is American-made.
I wouldn't call China "our enemy", I prefer the term "competitor". Look, end of the day, I doubt China wants a war, and neither does America. They do wanna compete, and compete we are doing. Trade wars are competing, jockeying for influence is competing, spying on each is competing. It ain't war through. We aren't trying to kill each other. We do sharpen our swords, but thats just a warning, just posturing, just making sure neither of us stops being afraid of the other. As a American, I wanna compete and I want to be secure in knowing that we all are scared of anything worse than competing. Honestly, I dislike the need to mark other countries as "enemies." We are just competing.
Russia....I wouldn't call it competing. Enemies, probably, or maybe "foe". Iran? Enemies.
SighTurtle
[H]ard|Gawd
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Actually, the usage of "enemies" and treason probably is done to emphasis a us vs them situation, both to make policies favoring "enemies" to be "treasonous", instead of merely being a different view on a policy matter. I dislike its usage, among both Republicans and Democrats, as a way to underscore the need to oppose the politicians proposing the "treasonous" views. We should be viewing it as a competitive race largely. We want our team to win, but it ain't life or death. In that regard, I oppose hating on China, or bashing China, but I do wanna win (Except human rights, bash away).
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There are already several law firms chomping at the bit on that and launching investigations.... of course take them with a gigantic grain of salt. They are just scumbags that are out to sue anyone for anything as long as they think they can make a quick buck. Like most any personal injury firms they are the bottom of the barrel sleaze.
http://www.faruqilaw.com/SMCI
http://shareholder.law/supermicro/
http://ademilaw.com/case/supermicro
http://kaskelalaw.com/case/super-micro-computer/
Of course Super Micro are strongly trying to refute the claims in the Bloomberg article.
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm
I disagree. Japan, Germany, Korea, Canada, Mexico, and England are competitors. No one worries about a shooting war with them.
The current Chinese state is an enemy. The current Iranian state is a mortal enemy.
SighTurtle
[H]ard|Gawd
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A shooting war between China and the U.S would basically wreck the world economy, not to mention seriously wound both China and the U.S (if not destabilize both, and bring about the fall of the Chinese Government). In 10-20-30 years, sure, maybe China's internal economy will be enough for it to not be destroyed by a war and blockade, but until China stops being the manufacturing capital of the world for everyone else, it will not risk a war that could stop its economy. Besides, theres something to be said about optics, Iran is a enemy, Russia is a enemy, China is a competitor, and thats cause if we really had to engage in a war vs Russia or Iran, we could win without too much damage, but vs China, would be plenty of damage probably. Also, in terms of threats, Russia threatens our internal stabilization, Iran threatens Israel and our Middle East interests, yeah China competes with us in South East Asia, but honestly, I don't consider it as serious as Iran or Russia. Not enough for the label of enemy.
Could have sworn Supermicro was a company of Taiwanese expats, you know, the rogue state trying to ignore the missiles that China punts over their airspace every so often. It's like saying Nvidia and (old) ATI Technologies are Chinese companies. They are in a sense but not in a political one.
It's obvious we shouldn't have and should never again trust the Chinese. Anyone associated with doing business in any way or kowtowing to the Chinese is suspect as a traitor at this point. This stuff has got to end, we should start doing most if not all of our own fabrication etc. If we continue the status quo it's going to bite us. Mark my words.
I was definitely talking about inserting at the factory and I think that'd be a different attack than selling counterfeit equipment, since I believe this equipment is, in fact, coming directly from Supermicro. that to me doesn't rise to the level of we should move our manufacturing out of china. Assuming this is true (and Bloomberg is a pretty solid organization), this does. Whether that comes back to the U.S. or it goes to Taiwan I'm good.
Why would you oppose hating on a lying backstabbing spying country like China?
How is it not life and death?
Report will poison Bloomberg? For telling the truth about China being lying spying backstabbing enemies of the US?
They need to have a beating like a lying evil fake friend deserves. Frenemies should be taken care of.
schoolslave
[H]ard|Gawd
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I watched the report and read the entire reporting.
Tbh, without actual proof I just don't buy it -- especially due to this statement: "companies do not vet the hardware they use".
That is complete and utter garbage and pretty much shows this guy doesn't know WTF he is talking about.
Without conclusive evidence, this smells like market manipulation on the coattails of China-fearmongering and pure bullshit to me.
I don't trust Chinese hardware (ie. Huewei etc), but I do still trust US businesses to scrutinize the hardware they purchase and integrate.
Tbh, without actual proof I just don't buy it -- especially due to this statement: "companies do not vet the hardware they use".
That is complete and utter garbage and pretty much shows this guy doesn't know WTF he is talking about.
Without conclusive evidence, this smells like market manipulation on the coattails of China-fearmongering and pure bullshit to me.
I don't trust Chinese hardware (ie. Huewei etc), but I do still trust US businesses to scrutinize the hardware they purchase and integrate.
He did say "in China," so yes, of course.
Tienanmen Square, anyone?
Yes, it's true I forgot to negative my positive, I was referring to only telling a truth, so it does get confusing when the truth is different in each country. Thank goodness I'm not UN ambassador, what a chore that must be trying to keep all the versions straight.
OK. But...
Many companies in Taiwan have their factories in China. Foxconn is the biggest example I can think of. Also, many Chinese work in Taiwan and not all of them have 'seen the light'.
Considering Taiwan a client-state is an error.
Just make important/sensitive tech and materials at home. Sure, the short-term cost may be higher but the potential cost in damages by allowing hostile or weak nations to manufacture sensitive tech for us could be catastrophic.