China Challenges Nvidia's Hold on Artificial Intelligence Chips

[DooKey]

A call for research projects from China’s Ministry of Science and Technology posted online last month fills in some detail on the government’s plans. And it puts Silicon Valley chipmaker Nvidia, the leading supplier of silicon for machine-learning projects, in the cross hairs. The Ministry of Science and Technology document lays out 13 “transformative” technology projects where it wants to put government money in coming months, hoping for delivery by 2021. I'm not sure how they hope to beat Nvidia by 2021 when they don't have anything that's even somewhat close now. In 2021 I expect Nvidia to be so far ahead of almost everyone that China is really going to struggle to catch up. However, it's good to see companies trying to catch up to the current King of the Hill. Bring on the competition!

One criterion for the project refers specifically to Nvidia: the ministry says it wants a chip that delivers performance and energy efficiency 20 times better than that of Nvidia’s M40 chip, branded as an “accelerator” for neural networks. Now two years old, the M40 is not Nvidia’s latest and greatest chip, but is still used in AI projects.

 

[Ultima99]

Don't worry, China will have it's priorities straight and provide massive funding while we're still dealing with our feelings. Then when it comes to the great war China's AI mechs will wreck Nvidia's and the AMD lovers will be smugly enjoying seeing NV lose even as our cities are being decimated by the Chinese.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

Don't worry, China will have it's priorities straight and provide massive funding while we're still dealing with our feelings. Then when it comes to the great war China's AI mechs will wreck Nvidia's and the AMD lovers will be smugly enjoying seeing NV lose even as our cities are being decimated by the Chinese.

This message brought to you by the Bureau of Alternative Facts and Propaganda.

Remember: If you're not scared, you're not a patriot.

 

[Dman014]

This message brought to you by the Bureau of Alternative Facts and Propaganda.

Remember: If you're not scared, you're not a patriot.

Hey now, wait a minute! Stop with the micro-aggression you damn Nazi!

 

[GlowingGhoul]

This message brought to you by the Bureau of Alternative Facts and Propaganda.

Remember: If you're not scared, you're not a patriot.

Forced technology transfer and IP theft are at the root of China's technological progress, largely at our expense. China views us as their enemy, a force to be vanquished, and if you think that's the tinfoil hat ravings of an idiot, I'd suggest that's the result of your deep, willful, and likely irreparable ignorance.

 

[Spidey329]

I'm not sure how they hope to beat Nvidia by 2021 when they don't have anything that's even somewhat close now.

They'll do what they do best, reverse engineer. Look at their high-speed train network, they used Kawasaki and then kicked them out after they got what they needed (a prototype with blueprints). Now they have one of the leading high-speed train networks - first they'll cheat and steal to catch up, then they'll throw a massive braintrust behind it to innovate. Being that a lot nVidia components may already be made in China, they likely already have the schematics they need. That's a major downside to outsourcing to a place like China, their system of power allows them to play fast and loose with the rules.

Go visit a pure Chinese booth at a convention and you'll notice a lot of signs saying "no photos/video." They know that it's part of their culture to steal intellectual property so they're very paranoid about it.

 

[HorseproofBacon]

They'll do what they do best, reverse engineer. Look at their high-speed train network, they used Kawasaki and then kicked them out after they got what they needed (a prototype with blueprints). Now they have one of the leading high-speed train networks - first they'll cheat and steal to catch up, then they'll throw a massive braintrust behind it to innovate. Being that a lot nVidia components may already be made in China, they likely already have the schematics they need. That's a major downside to outsourcing to a place like China, their system of power allows them to play fast and loose with the rules.

Go visit a pure Chinese booth at a convention and you'll notice a lot of signs saying "no photos/video." They know that it's part of their culture to steal intellectual property so they're very paranoid about it.

So basically, the Chinese are parasites...in the most literal of descriptions.

 

[Ultima99]

This message brought to you by the Bureau of Alternative Facts and Propaganda.

Remember: If you're not scared, you're not a patriot.

You know a lot of people love to demonize the US for all our "gross abuses of power" when if you really, and I mean REALLY, look at it objectively you will see that on the continuum of power abuse we're not so bad and maybe the world was LUCKY that we ended up in the dominant position. Nazi's anyone? What about the Japanese? Some of the shit they did was worse than the Nazi's. The rape of Nanking may come to mind. What about the Communists and their boy Stalin who was so bad (killed more than Hitler) even his own country went through a process called de-Stalinization to scrub him, his effects, and memory from their country. Compared to these, and considering how much stronger our position was in the 2nd half of the 20th century we were pretty damn well behaved.

Maybe it's time you take a hard look in the mirror and realize the false pretenses from which you have formed your worldview.

 

[Miikun]

They'll do what they do best, reverse engineer. Look at their high-speed train network, they used Kawasaki and then kicked them out after they got what they needed (a prototype with blueprints). Now they have one of the leading high-speed train networks - first they'll cheat and steal to catch up, then they'll throw a massive braintrust behind it to innovate. Being that a lot nVidia components may already be made in China, they likely already have the schematics they need. That's a major downside to outsourcing to a place like China, their system of power allows them to play fast and loose with the rules.

Go visit a pure Chinese booth at a convention and you'll notice a lot of signs saying "no photos/video." They know that it's part of their culture to steal intellectual property so they're very paranoid about it.

In a way they're the exact opposite of our society of patent trolls, any idea is up for grabs, and everyone will take any idea and implement it in the name of feature parity. I do recall the irony that the Chinese company that designed the original self balancing scooter was ripped off during their debut at the tradeshow, then their competitors beat them to market with the same design. Clearly there should be a line in the middle between rampant cloning, and one-click patents. But for now, if China does come up with a competitive chip in that timeframe, it will be designed in california, fabbed in Korea/Taiwan, and used only by the Chinese government since it wouldn't hold up to IP scrutiny if sold on the open market. I recall the last time they tried this, it was to develop a Intel competitor, and the head of the project was prosecuted for corruption after a couple years and billions sunk.

 

[theBrownLlama]

ah, looks like AMD is up for sale soon.

 

[5150Joker]

They will pull it off and here's why:

1. China doesn't give a shit about intellectual property and take what they want when they want.
2. AMD and NVIDIA both have facilities in China and if the government wants, they will take it all.
3. AMD's Vega and Polaris were 100% developed in China (thanks Raja) and those engineers can easily be coerced by the state to work for the new Chinese company using what they learned with AMD.
4. The US government is weak and Trump is all talk just like every other President that came before him. The US congress is corrupt and bought out by the very companies that transfer tech to China so when this IP theft happens, the US government will stay silent or at best issue some statement to the press to satisfy the public and it will be business as usual.

So if I were NVIDIA (and AMD) I'd be worried about a nationalized Chinese company coming after them. I've already mentioned before that China would buy AMD in a heartbeat if US regulators allowed it and this proves my point that they want to get into the business and will do so at any cost. AI/Machine learning is the future and whoever controls it will have a substantial advantage over other nations and that makes NVIDIA a huge target right now.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

Forced technology transfer and IP theft are at the root of China's technological progress, largely at our expense. China views us as their enemy, a force to be vanquished, and if you think that's the tinfoil hat ravings of an idiot, I'd suggest that's the result of your deep, willful, and likely irreparable ignorance.

You know a lot of people love to demonize the US for all our "gross abuses of power" when if you really, and I mean REALLY, look at it objectively you will see that on the continuum of power abuse we're not so bad and maybe the world was LUCKY that we ended up in the dominant position. Nazi's anyone? What about the Japanese? Some of the shit they did was worse than the Nazi's. The rape of Nanking may come to mind. What about the Communists and their boy Stalin who was so bad (killed more than Hitler) even his own country went through a process called de-Stalinization to scrub him, his effects, and memory from their country. Compared to these, and considering how much stronger our position was in the 2nd half of the 20th century we were pretty damn well behaved.

Maybe it's time you take a hard look in the mirror and realize the false pretenses from which you have formed your worldview.

I love the way my lack of unconditional hatred for China must somehow mean I hate the United States and Americans.

That's the power of propaganda, that's the power of social engineering. The efficacy of which is scary.

I mean how many War-Glory TV shows have launched in the six months? Four, Five?

 

[Ultima99]

I love the way my lack of unconditional hatred for China must somehow mean I hate the United States and Americans.

That's the power of propaganda, that's the power of social engineering. The efficacy of which is scary.

I mean how many War-Glory TV shows have launched in the six months? Four, Five?

Who has unconditional hatred for China? Way to take a statement that we should invest in science to keep ourselves on top for benefit of our own security and make it into whatever liberal dreck you call your whole line of reasoning.

Yeah, let's keep our heads in the clouds and not worry, everything will be fine and nothing bad could ever happen to our civilization. Just ask all those European Jews how well it worked for them. Oh that's right, someone tortured and killed almost all of them.

You keep your ears covered and go "la la la" buddy, us grown ups will continue to realize that evil exists in the world and we must always be prepared.