erek
[H]F Junkie
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zen1's pretty high performant tho, why wouldn't there be anything to worry about?
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China-Based Zhaoxin Targets 2021 for 7nm CPUs With PCIe 4.0, DDR5 Support
- Thread starter erek
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zen1's pretty high performant tho, why wouldn't there be anything to worry about?
If you are smart you would be suspicious of everyone and ask for a rule based system where everything is looked at fairly and according to agreed on guidelines. No where do I say trust the Chinese government...I asked you to quote me on it and you can't.
Also what makes you think 'majority of the world' think like you do? It again is ironic that you question me as an American because of where I am but is so quick to pass judgement on the world when you are not even abroad....
gigaxtreme1
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This is not AMD tech. This is the remnants of VIA which used Centaur designs and was bought by a China company. Not sure if these can be sold out of China. HYGON is the AMD joint venture which uses Zen1 tech and Radeon tech for graphics, not sure if Zen2+ or other has been licensed.
You'd think that a self-respecting Taiwanese-American like Lisa Su would know better than to sell out innovation to China and make the demon stronger. China sure isn't ever going to share or sell any of their internally developed stuff - with anyone.
As you sit back in your easy chair watching while the people around you are so desperate for freedom. You've made your sympathies clear. Yeah, you are so worldly. You don't have to travel the world to understand what is going on. Especially in this case. The chinese straight out say - we are going to rule the world via economic means. What do you think china 2025 is? It's more than just self-sufficiency.
They have been making their own CPUs. The chips in question are NOT zen. AMDs deal was a company founded in China by AMD themselves with investment from Chinese business folks, and the Chinese Academy of sciences. That company is named Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co. Ltd. Back in June the US government placed one of the AMD owned Chinese companies on their export control Entity List... which has essentially killed all tech transfer and basically ended that project.
Xhaoxin is Via.
Via has been owned by Formosa Plastics for sometime now a Taiwanese entity (Chinese)... Zhaoxin is Vias collaboration directly with the Chinese Gov. (Via and its tech including its 100% legal x86 licence basically belongs to China)
Their first chips which they have been putting in Chinese made for China laptops for 4 or 5 years already are die shrunk Via Isaiah chips. So nothing exciting to us... but they are fully functioning x86 chips... their most recent shipping one is on par with around 3-4 year old 4 core Intel chips.
So to sum it up... Via was sold to a Chinese owned plastics company, and they have incorporated another company on the mainland to which they have transferred all their previous x86 work as well as all their licences.
China likes to start mulitple plays at things and see what sticks... so it makes sense they would be trying to get AMD doing the same thing Via is. That doesn't seem to have worked out... but this Zhaoxin play is legit and has legs. They have legal licences to x86 forever thanks to Via owning Cyrix their patents and their patent sharing agreements. Via had working chips for them to start with... I would expect at some point in the next few generations of chips they will hit parity or darn close to it with Intel and AMD. China is more then willing to bankroll things.
They can be sold anywhere they like. Via has a 100% legal x86 licence in perpetuity. They own all of Cyrixs patents and their legal patent sharing agreements. This means if Intel adds AVX 2048 in 10 years... Via and by extension Zhaoxin can use it. Zhaoxin has self developed 2 chips now (not counting this new 7nm one) beyond their initial Via die shrink chips... and both have full x86 feature sets (SMM, FPU, NX, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, SM3, SM4, and AVX).
Intels core tech is based on tech stolen from Cyrix... and Intel settled that by agreeing to basically a life time patent swap.
The entire situation is sort of funny. Intels shitty behavior in the 90s is catching up to them and eventually (10-30 years) down the line may well be their end. If AMD continues to go after the high end and erodes their server business... its not far fetched to see a company like Zhoaxin come along and eat their mobile business alive. Heck AMD may be wise to not focus to hard on making their chips mobile friendly and spend all their resources building faster and more core Epycs.
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Come on you are on the other half of the planet, at least I am on the ground and have skin in the game.
Honestly if you still don't see the irony I can't help you. Put in simple terms, you think you can speak for others, without knowing them. You think can ask for others to trust you, without trusting them. I don't know what kind of people are around you but in my experience people that gullible are few and far between.
Pointless conversation as you address nothing and flap at intangibles.
A friendly reminder that you did bring up 'TRUST' first...
Can’t discuss anything who won’t acknowledge facts. The fact is the Chinese government supports an economic war against the world. Now they threaten Germany because the Germans are considering banning their precious hauwai. You acknowledge nothing and talk in circles.
not even the people outside your window in HK trust China. There. That’s LACK of trust. Big time. Revolutionary level.
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Fact needs evidence and when evidence is not available it needs trust in someone who knows the evidence. You can’t just claim something is a fact with neither.
The Huawei bans are controversial precisely because the evidence has not been produced and others are asked to toe the line based on trust... It’s been like two years now and much of the EU is still divided over it. Guess they all don’t like “facts”?
Huawei Is just a subsidiary of communist China government really. Well subsidized. Don’t treat it as an independent corporation. It’s not.
Oh just today..
https://jalopnik.com/chinese-ambassador-casually-threatens-german-car-indust-1840443042
Oh just today..
https://jalopnik.com/chinese-ambassador-casually-threatens-german-car-indust-1840443042
Chinese spies extradition, it’s the new Cold War.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/15/world/asia/us-china-spies.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/15/world/asia/us-china-spies.html
You can make the same argument against most American banks and large manufacturers. Bail outs and zero tax deals for factories are just as much subsidies. China doesn't really do anything out of the ordinary really. Huawei has an owner that gets rich... and where I am in Canada we are holding his daughter who got her position in the most Western of fashions, Nepotism.
Huawei gets subsidies sure... but so did all the major American telecoms. Unless your going to tell me Gov contracts, $1 100 year leases, and tax breaks to the point of negative tax rates are not subsides.
As someone from an outside observer country, that has had to pass laws to keep American super subsidized mega telecoms out. Don't really see much difference.
Telecoms are domestic. The analogy Does not exist here since we are talking exported tech. Not domestic infrastructure.You can make the same argument against most American banks and large manufacturers. Bail outs and zero tax deals for factories are just as much subsidies. China doesn't really do anything out of the ordinary really. Huawei has an owner that gets rich... and where I am in Canada we are holding his daughter who got her position in the most Western of fashions, Nepotism.
Huawei gets subsidies sure... but so did all the major American telecoms. Unless your going to tell me Gov contracts, $1 100 year leases, and tax breaks to the point of negative tax rates are not subsides.
As someone from an outside observer country, that has had to pass laws to keep American super subsidized mega telecoms out. Don't really see much difference.
The analogy still fits. Americans accusing Chinese companies of being subsidized is rich. The US is the corporate welfare state.
You can argue huawei is riddled with spyware and back doors. Which may or may not be true. Its also true of equipment made by Cisco,Juniper as well as basically every other American telecom tech mfg... all the US majors like Cisco and Juniper have massive DOD contracts, I'm sure its all just for comms equip though nothing more.
My point is for people in countries which are not the US or China. It all seems to be a lot of BS jockeying and posturing for business and little more. I can see why the US gov would get very upset about major comm equip mfgs not in their sphere. Until fairly recently they had a monopoly in terms of spying on other countries through their own infrastructure. All the worlds equip basically comes from China / US / Japan / Finland and Sweden... the only mfgs the NSA hasn't had their fingers into have been the ones in China. In the last few years China has overtaken the US in terms of sales in that regard... so I guess its was time to use some political muscle to try and right the boat.
Articles going on about the Chinese saying ya if you stop trading with us expect that to go both ways are silly Propoganda pieces. The US (and every other country to be fair) operate the same way... here in Canada we just got forced into an updated free trade agreement where it was give us 100% access to this or we cut you off here. What is the difference. Nothing. And Germany... the irony lol when it was US equipment proven to be spying on their leadership just what last year.
IMO my local cell company using 5G equip from huawei is no worse then them using Juniper or Cisco crap. Both are spying... do I feel safer being spied on by China or the US ? Not an easy question... and to be honest I would probably go with China, but its close.
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That is the pure left wing spin play by play on 5G as touted by the media. You go with that. Your Chinese preference will bite you in the as* eventually.
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/via-zhaoxin-kx6000-benchmark.2554199/
Not really impressive, and I doubt that they will do the quantum leap required to really be of note any time soon.
Not really impressive, and I doubt that they will do the quantum leap required to really be of note any time soon.
Well that part is a couple years old now... and its also not a desktop part. We are talking about a 10 or so watt laptop part.
I wouldn't be shocked that we start seeing Zhaoxin laptops in the west in the next few years... and ya they won't be on par performance wise. But they will be better then what you find in most chrome books at a cost of whatever the screen and battery attached them goes for. lol
Couple years = 2018 = 1 year old, no they won't jump hard enough in a single year of cpu development to make them matter versus the shown performance.
It will be serviceable for the governmental offices of China, well yeah, even arm cpus could be used for most office work, but beyond that is a bit delusional.
It will be serviceable for the governmental offices of China, well yeah, even arm cpus could be used for most office work, but beyond that is a bit delusional.