China-Based Zhaoxin Targets 2021 for 7nm CPUs With PCIe 4.0, DDR5 Support

erek

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
4,655
Delete if re-post

"Similar to Zhaoxin's consumer offerings, the existing KH-30000 chips feature the same LuJiaZui microarchitecture and 16nm node. They sport up to eight cores and base clocks up to 2.7 GHz. The KH-40000 series will be the direct replacement and debut with a new and improved microarchitecture.

Sadly, the KH-40000 will be stuck on the 16nm process node. Nonetheless, Zhaoxin is promising to quadruple the core count from eight to 32 cores. This would effectively put the KH-40000 on the same ground as AMD's Threadripper chips - at least from a core perspective. It remains to be seen how the Zhaoxin's new microarchitecture fairs against its rivals.

The KH-40000 processors seemingly come with dual-socket support, so it will be possible to combine two of them for the possibility to have up to 64 cores in a single system. The 16nm chip's other attributes include continued use of DDR4 RAM and the PCIe 3.0 interface."


https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-zhaoxin-7nm-cpus-ddr5-pcie-4
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
9,419
Yeah... Intel had/has vulnerabilities in their chips because they were shortcuts to increase performance. These will have "vulnerabilities" built-in for other reasons... I would not touch these with a 10-foot pole, and if this is part of China's plan to wean their country off of western tech, then I feel sorry for the people of China.
 

dgz

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
5,834
Yeah... Intel had/has vulnerabilities in their chips because they were shortcuts to increase performance. These will have "vulnerabilities" built-in for other reasons... I would not touch these with a 10-foot pole, and if this is part of China's plan to wean their country off of western tech, then I feel sorry for the people of China.
I'd be more concerned with Israel/US backdoors. At least we know for sure they have them. Who has been caught spying on the whole world? Not China, that's for sure.

Then again, I am not a victim of constant china/russia/eu scare like some of you on this forum are. Pretty ballsy of you to even get out of the house. They might be after you!
 

5150Joker

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
3,722
I'd be more concerned with Israel/US backdoors. At least we know for sure they have them. Who has been caught spying on the whole world? Not China, that's for sure.

Then again, I am not a victim of constant china/russia/eu scare like some of you on this forum are. Pretty ballsy of you to even get out of the house. They might be after you!
Yeah I have less trust in Intel than I do a Chinese company as Western companies are giving my data to the US government vs Chinese which has no impact on my daily life. I have no problems at all with buying Chinese tech.
 

[21CW]killerofall

Aliens...
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
3,295
Yeah... Intel had/has vulnerabilities in their chips because they were shortcuts to increase performance. These will have "vulnerabilities" built-in for other reasons... I would not touch these with a 10-foot pole, and if this is part of China's plan to wean their country off of western tech, then I feel sorry for the people of China.
At least with the Chinese, they only want to spy on their own people, or on anyone with access to valuable IP. I am neither of those so I only have to worry about the Russians, the US, and Best Korea.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
25,523
I don't get it. The Chinese government is the great enemy of our time. They are every bit as evil and ruthless as Soviet Russia. It's about time people start acting like it.
 

odditory

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
5,947
At least with the Chinese, they only want to spy on their own people, or on anyone with access to valuable IP. I am neither of those so I only have to worry about the Russians, the US, and Best Korea.
The problem is China's slow, creeping acquisitions of american companies and services - some that you use now or may in the future - and then yes it will definitely affect Americans - it is already.
 
Last edited:

PeaKr

Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
858
Likely it'll be a few generations behind in performance because they never figured out how to get their stolen tech to work as well. No back doors huh? That's hilarious. Remember the routers manufactured in China with hard coded back doors? Have you guys every heard of a co. called Huawei? I guess if you just play video games its all good but if you had a company and employees it would be a different story.
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
No one has come up with any proof of the Huawei allegations. Why do you think we have to twist some European arms to get them to follow our policies? If it was such a clear security risk then it wouldn’t have been a hard sell. They don’t trust us because it wasn’t so long ago that we tapped Merkel’s phone and Cisco’s security issues are much better documented (aka proven).

Anyway China building its own chips is long expected. There is a huge market for US alternatives. With semiconductor being so integral and heavily US centric, the risk of sanctions is just too great. Also few people need the latest and greatest in performance.
 
Last edited:

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
No one has come up with any proof of the Huawei allegations. Why do you think we have to twist some European arms to get them to follow our policies? If it was such a clear security risk then it wouldn’t have been a hard sell. They don’t trust us because it wasn’t so long ago that we tapped Merkel’s phone and Cisco’s security issues are much better documented (aka proven).

I can think of a million other reasons (ie. hacks) why..all proven. If you want to be accepted into the world community - then stop acting like jerks. Level the economic playing field in your own country. Stop with forced ip transfers. Stop stealing anything and everything connected to the internet. Just to list a few items..
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
I can think of a million other reasons (ie. hacks) why..all proven. If you want to be accepted into the world community - then stop acting like jerks. Level the economic playing field in your own country. Stop with forced ip transfers. Stop stealing anything and everything connected to the internet. Just to list a few items..
How does that effect the product being discussed. Even going by your examples (and no doubt China has its issues), you will be hard pressed to find IP worth stealing in most parts of the world. Too often people think of the “world” as what they can see from their backyard...
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
How does that effect the product being discussed. Even going by your examples (and no doubt China has its issues), you will be hard pressed to find IP worth stealing in most parts of the world. Too often people think of the “world” as what they can see from their backyard...
TRUST is earned. How is that not part of the discussion?

"you will be hard pressed to find IP worth stealing in most parts of the world"
That is a lie, and the chinese have no problem in finding it everywhere. Not just IP but private data, for example.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
9,419
I'd be more concerned with Israel/US backdoors. At least we know for sure they have them.
Even if we assume that everything related to your vague and undefined reference to "Israel/US backdoors" is 100% true, there is still a HUGE difference between a democracy like the US where people are innocent until proven guilty and a totalitarian dictatorship like China where saying the wrong thing means you go to prison.

People in the US criticize the government all the time. Do you know what happens in China when you criticize the government?

Who has been caught spying on the whole world? Not China, that's for sure.
I guess stealing IP from just about every company in the world does not count as spying?

Then again, I am not a victim of constant china/russia/eu scare like some of you on this forum are. Pretty ballsy of you to even get out of the house. They might be after you!
I like how you bundle "china/russia/eu" into the same category to try to take the focus away from China. Russia is a has-been country that now has a smaller economy than countries like Brazil and Canada. The only people still talking about Russia are the democrats in their accusations against Trump. The EU is in a race to see which member-state can get away with spending the least amount of money on defense - not much of a global threat moving forward.

Yeah I have less trust in Intel than I do a Chinese company as Western companies are giving my data to the US government vs Chinese which has no impact on my daily life. I have no problems at all with buying Chinese tech.
Companies who have a presence in both the US and China (quite a few at this point, unfortunately) have been repeatedly pressured by the Chinese government to censor people outside of China for making statements contrary to the Chinese narrative. The idea that China has "no impact" on your daily life became obsolete about 20 years ago. You have people outside of China getting fired from their jobs and banned from games because they supported the Hong Kong protests or acknowledged that Taiwan is it's own country.

When a company is forced by the Chinese government to choose between your freedom of speech, and future business prospects in China worth billions, what do you think they are going to choose?
 

odditory

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
5,947
People seem to be missing the forest here. Big Data is the new industrial revolution. China understands this. So to naively think "Who cares if China has my data since I'm safe sitting in Amerca". Its not about locking you up or blackmailing or the other idiotic conspiracy shit - you're not that valuable, but your data is. Their ultimate goal is data warehousing everything about every person on the planet. All your information will end up sold to the highest bidder and you have no recourse.

Think Facebook, Google and Microsoft are bad for their data collection practices? At least they have the tiniest bit of accountability since they're U.S. based and can be DOJ'd. China can buy/sell/broker all the world's data with their trademark shameless and soulless impunity. They recognized what Facebook & Google were doing long ago and want to 100x it. Their insane hard-on for Quantum computing ties in with this.
 
Last edited:

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
People seem to be missing the forest here. Big Data is the new industrial revolution. China understands this. So to naively think "Who cares if China has my data since I'm safe sitting in Amerca". Its not about locking you up or blackmailing or the other idiotic conspiracy shit - you're not that valuable, but your data is. Their ultimate goal is data warehousing everything about every person on the planet. All your information will end up sold to the highest bidder and you have no recourse..
You've never heard of identity theft?
 

pillagenburn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
1,076
Yeah... Intel had/has vulnerabilities in their chips because they were shortcuts to increase performance. These will have "vulnerabilities" built-in for other reasons... I would not touch these with a 10-foot pole, and if this is part of China's plan to wean their country off of western tech, then I feel sorry for the people of China.
How do you know for certain that Intel chips didn't have vulnerabilities baked in for the same reasons?

You wouldn't ....and the fact that Intel doesn't seem too incredibly quick to fix their architecture and/or patch is kinda scary....
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
9,419
How do you know for certain that Intel chips didn't have vulnerabilities baked in for the same reasons?
Because even in an imaginary "worst case scenario" where Intel intentionally "baked" vulnerabilities into their chips at the request of the US government, it wouldn't matter for your average person because despite anything the government might find, it would not be admissible in court. In China, the government is the court, and suffice it to say, your NOT innocent until proven guilty.

The fact that Intel vulnerabilities directly correspond to performance improvements makes it pretty clear what their purpose was - shortcuts to increase their performance advantage over rivals such as AMD. The vulnerabilities China will "bake" into their chips probably won't increase performance...
 

TordanGow

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
1,420
Yeah... Intel had/has vulnerabilities in their chips because they were shortcuts to increase performance. These will have "vulnerabilities" built-in for other reasons... I would not touch these with a 10-foot pole, and if this is part of China's plan to wean their country off of western tech, then I feel sorry for the people of China.
Forget mine... I wouldn't touch them with YOUR 10 foot pole.
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
TRUST is earned. How is that not part of the discussion?

"you will be hard pressed to find IP worth stealing in most parts of the world"
That is a lie, and the chinese have no problem in finding it everywhere. Not just IP but private data, for example.
Come on, you think other people or governments really trust us? Heck I am not even sure most Americans trust our own government or each other across the political divide....

If you really think your data is worth stealing, I can't convince you otherwise. Having worked on assignments overseas for much my life (and now in HK), I have to say that I am more concerned about the IRS than anything the Chinese can ever do to me (and they have had plenty of chances to get their hands on me or my data).
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
Come on, you think other people or governments really trust us? Heck I am not even sure most Americans trust our own government or each other across the political divide....

If you really think your data is worth stealing, I can't convince you otherwise. Having worked on assignments overseas for much my life (and now in HK), I have to say that I am more concerned about the IRS than anything the Chinese can ever do to me (and they have had plenty of chances to get their hands on me or my data).
Stay in HK, sounds like you belong over there more than here anyways. you obviously distrust the US government and are naive about chinese intentions.
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
Stay in HK, sounds like you belong over there more than here anyways.
Great retort :) I only put that in to illustrate the irony that someone half a planet away is more scared of China than me who is on its doorsteps.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
Great retort :) I only put that in to illustrate the irony that someone half a planet away is more scared of China than me who is on its doorsteps.
You obviously distrust the US government and at the same time naive about chinese intentions. What and why do you think all those people outside your window are doing what they are doing- night after night? They are scared.
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
You obviously distrust the US government and at the same time naive about chinese intentions. What and why do you think all those people outside your window are doing what they are doing- night after night? They are scared.
Naive is subjective. Others can say the same about the trust you have with our government. Anyway you won't get far if trust is how you base your risk assessments on.

As for the protests in HK, thats a different ballgame and I am sure there is a thread somewhere about that here you can add your post to.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
Naive is subjective. Others can say the same about the trust you have with our government. Anyway you won't get far if trust is how you base your risk assessments on.

As for the protests in HK, thats a different ballgame and I am sure there is a thread somewhere about that here you can add your post to.
Funny how you pretend to be American but trust Red China more than America. This is a Joke - Right? Nice doge on the HK question. Funny how you have NO input on how people are fighting the mainland, for china to actually abide by the British agreement, your right in the middle of it.. and nothing to say..

Just another item how the chinese deal in bad faith, yet "i trust them more than our government". Put people in internment camps. Yeah your right - the irs is way more dangerous. Really?
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
Funny how you pretend to be American but trust Red China more than America. This is a Joke - Right? Nice doge on the HK question. Funny how you have NO input on how people are fighting the mainland, your right in the middle of it.. and nothing.
I don't need to pretend, if people don't follow the same line of thinking they are un-American? FYI the country means more than just the government. Not to mention no where did I say that...you should quote it if you find it.

I hope you notice that this forum is called 'Tech News', why would I opine on the protest when suspected espionage is the least the people here care about in HK (hint its not in their list of demands).
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
I don't need to pretend, if people don't follow the same line of thinking they are un-American? FYI the country means more than just the government. Not to mention no where did I say that...you should quote it if you find it.

I hope you notice that this forum is called 'Tech News', why would I opine on the protest when suspected espionage is the least the people here care about in HK (hint its not in their list of demands).
My doubts you are even American. Stop dancing around and deflecting. The treaty china signed with britain goes to "dealing in good faith". Who said anything about espionage? Strange you mentioned that as well.
 

Jinto

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,650
My doubts you are even American. Stop dancing around and deflecting. The treaty china signed with britain goes to "dealing in good faith". Who said anything about espionage? Strange you mentioned that as well.
Yeah some Chinese agent who joined here 11 years before you as a sleeper agent, and on a tech forum of all places.

You seem to have forgotten what this thread is about in the first place. Just a friendly reminder that it is about suspected espionage through the application of a new processor.
 

CVNet1

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Messages
1,037
FYI the country means more than just the government.
I wonder if one's Social Credit score would take a hit from a statement like this in Mainland China.
Of course people with a low Social Credit Score don't get access to the internet, don't get to travel by train / plane or outside of hometown, and in some cases are arrested if they just leave their house at all and thus advised to not leave home which makes living a little difficult for those unlucky enough to have the lowest Social Credit scores.

I hear China's a nice place... lots of free camps for education and a state enforced family planning ( :sterilization: ) program for people with belief systems that are "wrong think". And they have such an incredibly giving population when it comes to Organ Donations. Some people in Chinese prisons have felt so strongly about it that they gave up organs prior to dying on the operating tables when they found out they were a match to some needy person elsewhere in the world. So giving and altruistic of them to be volun-forced by the state so a few Chinese Yuan / Renminbi can flow into the state coffers and they can stop being a burden on the Chinese prison systems anymore.

Nice place indeed.

I'm sure this processor thing they ripped off from American IP and customized with their own backdoors will work really well for them.
I also sometimes wonder what China would do if they didn't have other more advanced nations actually developing new IP so that China can steal it through corporate and international espionage. The word stagnate comes to mind.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
Yeah some Chinese agent who joined here 11 years before you as a sleeper agent, and on a tech forum of all places.

You seem to have forgotten what this thread is about in the first place. Just a friendly reminder that it is about suspected espionage through the application of a new processor.
Now its more like its about you being sympathetic to chinese interests and suspicious of the US government. Your perception is misguided and does not match the majority of the worlds view.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745

Mchart

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,629
I’m pretty shocked that there are people naive enough on here that would knowingly choose to be spied on by the PRC. Yes, western countries spy as well. However, there are still legal processes and protections in place that western spy agencies have to follow. Further, people working in the government at least share western values.

If you think your data isn’t valuable you are incredibly ignorant to what can be done with big data analytics. Think of it like herd immunity for vaccinations. If the PRC is trying to track/collect not on you but the guy you just passed on the street, they will and can use your data to do so.
 

Imhotep

Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
815
Is it the same company that AMD licensed its first gen zen arch to ? As far as Chine and it overtaking everyone in every way goes. I have a strange feeling the west will deal with them not in the prettiest of ways in not to distant future.
 

cyklondx

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
419
Is it the same company that AMD licensed its first gen zen arch to ? As far as Chine and it overtaking everyone in every way goes. I have a strange feeling the west will deal with them not in the prettiest of ways in not to distant future.
yeah thats the company, but there's nothing to worry about.

Its pretty much same thing, a zen1 type cpu.

China had Sandy bridge chipset, and lga2011 cpu designs for almost a decade now. All they did just recently is spam their own mobo's which are all over the place. They didn't invent anything, or do anything with the design for the matter. Until amd shared zen1 with them.

also worth nothing i think the company thinks the trade war is going away soon, so they expect amd to sell them zen2 or zen2+ designs too.

But lets say the company actually succeeds and starts making their own cpu's - this will be good for us as well. Competition is always good.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
2,745
Competition is always good.
Yeah, just like it was for all the other industries that have be gutted. It's no wonder the last two generations have seen a decline in their standard of living compared to previous ones.
 

Imhotep

Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
815
Im not against competition. I just don't see this going anywhere except mainland china. The trade war. Im trying not to make this political. They should be ready for the next five years and another 4 after that. I don't think they will be able to buy their way in like they did with that retard Biden :D
 
Top