Children Struggle to Hold Pencils Due to Too Much Tech, Doctors Say

scojer said:
I can say the same thing about a lot of math I learned in school. I don't know the last time I needed to calculate volume, speed, height, distance, circumference, etc.
Click to expand...

Just throwing in that outside of signatures I never use cursive, I have no need for it. However, I do use math almost daily at work for circumferences and diameters, radius of pipes, breaking down into equal parts etc.
It depends on a persons profession and frankly I see no reason why someone can’t learn cursive later in life if they express interest in something requiring it.

Though I do think it should be touched on in grade school to lay some foundation, at least be able to recognize the letters and make a signature.

Extra-Titanian said:
A recurring example used in Manhunt: Unabomber was a red light at an intersection. You stop and look around, the roads are all empty. You look at the light, still red. You look again, still empty. Do you go?
Click to expand...
It depends, do I see a cop watching or a red light camera?

In seriousness I did this just the other night at 5 AM. The switch for the light wasn’t functioning so after sitting about 30 seconds I went. And for the minute longer down the road I saw no cross traffic and the light still never changed, all of the other lights in the neighborhood were actually flashing correctly.
 
viscountalpha said:
Some are devolving, others of us are getting smarter and stronger. Guess who the ruling class will be eventually?
Click to expand...
Then I guess throw some "The Time Machine" in there as well to stick with the movie theme. I think something like that must have happened in "Idiocracy", though we didn't see it. Someone had to create and maintain all that advanced technology the idiots were (mis)using.

Retronym said:
And then there's the social skills.
Click to expand...
Those skills are deteriorating quickest of all.
 
I bet those same kids are terrible with an abacus, too. I guess society is doomed! /s
 
My kids. Eldest has a Kindle Fire. 30minute time limit a day. after that, playing colouring...whatever, just not using the tablet
 
scojer said:
I can say the same thing about a lot of math I learned in school. I don't know the last time I needed to calculate volume, speed, height, distance, circumference, etc.

There are plenty of jobs that require cursive. Even though not all jobs do, it's still something that should be taught. Especially if they're interested in studying history, a lot of historical documents are written in cursive.
Click to expand...

And there are jobs that require high level math, and knowing greek, and knowing how to build a engine... and... what was your point again?

If that is something that is needed for certain jobs then that is something that should be talk at a later point in life for those that want that type of job. Why spend multiple years and multiple hours going through something that could be better spend going over skills that everyone needs at an early age?

I haven't used cursive in over 25 years. Most of what i have tried to read since then is very messy and hard to read.
 
Exavior said:
And there are jobs that require high level math, and knowing greek, and knowing how to build a engine... and... what was your point again?

If that is something that is needed for certain jobs then that is something that should be talk at a later point in life for those that want that type of job. Why spend multiple years and multiple hours going through something that could be better spend going over skills that everyone needs at an early age?

I haven't used cursive in over 25 years. Most of what i have tried to read since then is very messy and hard to read.
Click to expand...
I think defining which skills "everyone needs" is the hard part. I mean, you need to be able to communicate and work with others. You need to be able to do math well enough that you don't run into financial trouble at least. You need to be able to take care of yourself, as far as hygiene and food. Now, how much of that needs to be taught in school and how much should be left to parents? Should all additional schooling be left to undergraduate programs in college or trade school? Should new schools/college campuses be built for younger students who now have to learn advanced skills outside of public school, or should they be mixed with classes that have older students?
 
Exavior said:
And there are jobs that require high level math, and knowing greek, and knowing how to build a engine... and... what was your point again?

If that is something that is needed for certain jobs then that is something that should be talk at a later point in life for those that want that type of job. Why spend multiple years and multiple hours going through something that could be better spend going over skills that everyone needs at an early age?

I haven't used cursive in over 25 years. Most of what i have tried to read since then is very messy and hard to read.
Click to expand...

My point was that cursive should be taught still, as a basic skill. I didn't spend multiple years or hours learning cursive. It was taught in one grade and used less and less. As others have said, it's pretty useless, but so is 95% of the crap taught in school. Unless like you said, it is a skill needed for the job.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
How many people using this forum can wield a sword with any skill? Can you spin wool? Can you make stone arrows or make your own bows? Who does the pigment alchemy at the [H]?

Skills become obsolete all the time, it's happening faster now because our knowledge is growing exponentially and so is our aptitude for changing our environment to suit us. Just because the future scares you and renders all your little skills completely useless doesn't mean it's doomed. It's just different, the only things doomed are those who don't adapt.
Click to expand...


scojer said:
There are some schools not even teaching cursive anymore.

The future is doomed more and more each day.
Click to expand...

I can do all of those things... The question is: Why are you not prepared to care for yourself or your family should the day come that it's needed? Those are very basic survival skills. I learned all of these things in Boy Scouts, minus "sword fighting". That skill I learned from a neighbor's wife that was big into fencing.

It's a great idea though. Kids can't read cursive/script, and then the pesky Bill of Rights can go away.


scojer said:
I can say the same thing about a lot of math I learned in school. I don't know the last time I needed to calculate volume, speed, height, distance, circumference, etc.
Click to expand...

I use the math quite often in my profession.
 
Last edited:
I forgot to mention earlier because i was on my phone and got pulled away about the whole cursive argument. While I understand how those who never use it can't see thee point of teaching it, I respectfully disagree. Teaching of cursive teaches far more than mere fancy lettering. It teaches quite a bit of hand eye coordination skills as well as slows kids down and forces them to think about what they are writing. I rarely use cursive myself beyond my signature but that hasn't stopped me from understanding the value of the skills I learned while learning it. Further my schools don't teach it here and I had to teach my kids it myself. i did so for two reasons; First being my daughter is left handed and no one else is so we really didn't know how to improve her writing (which was atrocious) and second being I wanted them to improve their overall writing and this forced them to slow down enough to think things through. What happened in both cases is my daughters script drastically improved as she had to practice cursive way harder than print ever made her and both of their spelling and sentence structure improved noticeably as a result of them having to think ahead of what they were writing. So yes I think the removal of cursive is a disservice to our kids. If we used the same logic of "Well I never use this" to everything that a kid might not use, you could eliminate 80% of the current curriculum.
 
There are plenty of skills that, even though not directly applicable to a job, are very important for people to have. Writing in cursive is not one of them.
 
Nolan7689 said:
It depends, do I see a cop watching or a red light camera?

In seriousness I did this just the other night at 5 AM. The switch for the light wasn’t functioning so after sitting about 30 seconds I went. And for the minute longer down the road I saw no cross traffic and the light still never changed, all of the other lights in the neighborhood were actually flashing correctly.
Click to expand...
It's really more of the idea of the concept. You essentially put your human autonomy on hold because a machine tells you to. There's more involving the centralization of production of resources and such, but all in all, it's kind of a terrifying read.
 
One time a few months ago, I was filling up my truck at a gas station and this ignorant kid rolled by with his face glued to his tablet, and bumped into my truck. I then calmly put my lit cigarette down and picked up my nearly empty bottle of vodka, and threw it at the retard. He wailed and then rolled his wheelchair back to his mom. My girlfriend got angry so I gave her a black eye pea CD to calm her down, dropped her butt off at high school and told her "See you later babe at the family reunion", then I drove off to my AAA meeting. Kids and their tech...
 
Nanogrip said:
One time a few months ago, I was filling up my truck at a gas station and this ignorant kid rolled by with his face glued to his tablet, and bumped into my truck. I then calmly put my lit cigarette down and picked up my nearly empty bottle of vodka, and threw it at the retard. He wailed and then rolled his wheelchair back to his mom. My girlfriend got angry so I gave her a black eye pea CD to calm her down, dropped her butt off at high school and told her "See you later babe at the family reunion", then I drove off to my AAA meeting. Kids and their tech...
Click to expand...
Why not finish the rest of the vodka then throw it?

Writing with a pen/pencil and paper is archaic! Not sure how much longer before you do your work on the computer at school.(everything electronic) Some things in the world go bye bye as we progress.
 
Hagrid said:
Why not finish the rest of the vodka then throw it?

Writing with a pen/pencil and paper is archaic! Not sure how much longer before you do your work on the computer at school.(everything electronic) Some things in the world go bye bye as we progress.
Click to expand...
Writing will become the ultimate security mod, because you stupid kids won't be able to read cursive, much less turn pages.

Couple that with the inability to masturbate and have sex ("I can't get it in, my hand is too weak!"), humanity will be dead in a generation.

Where the fuck is that asteroid of death when you need it?
 
travisty said:
I am being totally honest with this question: Why is it important to learn cursive?

As a software engineer i haven't written anything on a hard medium in God knows how long. Only thing i use any form of hand-writing is the rare old fashioned check
Click to expand...
What will you do when the power fails?
 
scojer said:
My point was that cursive should be taught still, as a basic skill. I didn't spend multiple years or hours learning cursive. It was taught in one grade and used less and less. As others have said, it's pretty useless, but so is 95% of the crap taught in school. Unless like you said, it is a skill needed for the job.
Click to expand...

I don't know your age, or where you went to school so maybe it is different based on time period taught and the area. I am in my late 30s. From what little I can recall from that time period we actually started learning it in 3rd grade and finished in 4th with it still being required in 5th. In 3rd grade for a few months we spent about 30 - 45 minutes a day learning just the basics. Every day we focused on just a single letter, and just a single case of the letter. You would go through the steps needed to write the letter and have to write it in pieces over and over. So for example for a lower case a, you would have a few lines of the upward sloping line to the top of the a. then after your 2 or 3 lines of that, then you would have a few lines of that and the c shaped part of the letter. Then you would have a few lines of that with the line going up. then a few of the finished a. The next day was just on upper case A, then was a day writing both upper and lower case as practice. Then you would have a day of lower case b, then a day of upper case B. Then a day on both... Once we got through all of that then we just had a few days of practice writing all the letters over and over. Then in 4th grade we had a refresher going over all the letter again. Then had to start writing full words learning how some letters can be connected without needing to lift your pencil starting with small words for practice working up to larger words. Some practice was simply practicing connecting letters together so like aaaaaaaa in cursive over and over again. Then once we got to a certain point for 4th and then all of 5th grade everything had to be in cursive. Anything wrote in print was instantly graded as a zero. Come 6th grade we could write however we wanted and never used cursive again. I write much neater in print than i do cursive.

If taught as something that would take maybe a couple of days of their English class to be shown this is how you make all the letters, give them a few words to write out and carry on then sure. But when you got through the level of it like we did in school that was a waste. There is no need to write 50 cursive lower case As over and over to make sure that your marks are perfect. In this day and age most school work is done on a computer so knowing how to type is more important than fancy writing. And if you just need to be able to read it then you just need to be shown what the letters are that's it. Its no different than roman numerals. That is something that you will come across in far more often then cursive, we spent maybe 1 or 2 math session going over the fact that I = 1, V = 5, X = 10, L = 50, C = 100 and for 1 unit below the new character you prefix it with the lower character so instead IIII you do IV for 4. IX for 9 and so on. Didn't have to spent weeks or months on the subject and everyone know that enough to know that OS X is OS version 10. GTA V is grand theft auto 5. Superbowl LII this year was 52.
 
Betaboy1983 said:
Well, if you show an interest in high school, then take a cursive class instead of an extra study hall.
Added, I think math skills and a form of handwriting should not really be compared when it comes to life skills
Click to expand...
Math is nothing without communication. And written communication is second only to spoken. And sometimes first.

The ability to write is a must. Communication via emojis isn't communicating, it's allowing a ruling class to take away that which democratizes society, reading and writing and arithmetic.
 
Exavior said:
I don't know your age, or where you went to school so maybe it is different based on time period taught and the area. I am in my late 30s. From what little I can recall from that time period we actually started learning it in 3rd grade and finished in 4th with it still being required in 5th. In 3rd grade for a few months we spent about 30 - 45 minutes a day learning just the basics. Every day we focused on just a single letter, and just a single case of the letter. You would go through the steps needed to write the letter and have to write it in pieces over and over. So for example for a lower case a, you would have a few lines of the upward sloping line to the top of the a. then after your 2 or 3 lines of that, then you would have a few lines of that and the c shaped part of the letter. Then you would have a few lines of that with the line going up. then a few of the finished a. The next day was just on upper case A, then was a day writing both upper and lower case as practice. Then you would have a day of lower case b, then a day of upper case B. Then a day on both... Once we got through all of that then we just had a few days of practice writing all the letters over and over. Then in 4th grade we had a refresher going over all the letter again. Then had to start writing full words learning how some letters can be connected without needing to lift your pencil starting with small words for practice working up to larger words. Some practice was simply practicing connecting letters together so like aaaaaaaa in cursive over and over again. Then once we got to a certain point for 4th and then all of 5th grade everything had to be in cursive. Anything wrote in print was instantly graded as a zero. Come 6th grade we could write however we wanted and never used cursive again. I write much neater in print than i do cursive.

If taught as something that would take maybe a couple of days of their English class to be shown this is how you make all the letters, give them a few words to write out and carry on then sure. But when you got through the level of it like we did in school that was a waste. There is no need to write 50 cursive lower case As over and over to make sure that your marks are perfect. In this day and age most school work is done on a computer so knowing how to type is more important than fancy writing. And if you just need to be able to read it then you just need to be shown what the letters are that's it. Its no different than roman numerals. That is something that you will come across in far more often then cursive, we spent maybe 1 or 2 math session going over the fact that I = 1, V = 5, X = 10, L = 50, C = 100 and for 1 unit below the new character you prefix it with the lower character so instead IIII you do IV for 4. IX for 9 and so on. Didn't have to spent weeks or months on the subject and everyone know that enough to know that OS X is OS version 10. GTA V is grand theft auto 5. Superbowl LII this year was 52.
Click to expand...
It takes time and practice to perfect anything, especially for children: that's why so much time was dedicated to learning to write. Giving up that ability is tantamount to just agreeing to be illiterate.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Yeah, you're too busy pecking away at that keyboard to be bothered with the simple things, like walking, driving, and even breathing.
Click to expand...

Not writing in cursive and not writing period are two different things. I write much neater in print than I do cursive. If I write something in print today, 5 months from now I read exactly what I was wrote down. If i was to write something in cursive, it would come out sloppy and I would have trouble trying to read my own writing 5 months later. Partly because the speed at which I would be writing and also due to the fact that I have small writing.
 
Exavior said:
Not writing in cursive and not writing period are two different things. I write much neater in print than I do cursive. If I write something in print today, 5 months from now I read exactly what I was wrote down. If i was to write something in cursive, it would come out sloppy and I would have trouble trying to read my own writing 5 months later. Partly because the speed at which I would be writing and also due to the fact that I have small writing.
Click to expand...
...not to mention those small wrists and atrophy'd arm muscles just can't take it anymore, which is why you have to print. :p
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
It takes time and practice to perfect anything, especially for children: that's why so much time was dedicated to learning to write. Giving up that ability is tantamount to just agreeing to be illiterate.
Click to expand...

Big_Rig_Stig said:
...not to mention those small wrists and atrophy'd arm muscles just can't take it anymore, which is why you have to print. :p
Click to expand...

I know that i shouldn't feed trolls / assholes but why not.

As for taking time and practice. That is the point being argued in the slightly off topic discussion. If kids are not writing period anymore to the point that that the little they do have to write is hard on them why waste time teaching a form of writing that will be used only a fraction of the time that they write? If a child only writes with a pen or pencil 30% of the times, or even 40% of the time, why spent time perfecting a way to write 1% of the 30 or 40%? Just teaching basic knowledge would suit them much better than multiple hours a week for months on end. And that point of they are going to be typing over 1/2 the time teach them how to type correctly in a way that won't cause problems from typing.

as for my wrist and muscles, not a problem here. I don't work a job where i sit on my ass all day. As much as I yell at electronics, cable and 175lb batteries they just won't install themselves.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I mean I have young kids and they use tablets, but they spend just as much time coloring and drawing. I mean literally for this to happen you would have to intentionally prevent them from doing typical kids activities to cause this. I mean who the hell doesn't let their kid color? Perhaps my kids are just abnormal. They spend more time outdoors than indoors.
Click to expand...

Same here, 4 year old who has exceptional dexterity and friends who can barely use crayons. Parent ffs, don’t let the device, it’s just sad at this point.
 
Exavior said:
I don't know your age, or where you went to school so maybe it is different based on time period taught and the area. I am in my late 30s. From what little I can recall from that time period we actually started learning it in 3rd grade and finished in 4th with it still being required in 5th. In 3rd grade for a few months we spent about 30 - 45 minutes a day learning just the basics. Every day we focused on just a single letter, and just a single case of the letter. You would go through the steps needed to write the letter and have to write it in pieces over and over. So for example for a lower case a, you would have a few lines of the upward sloping line to the top of the a. then after your 2 or 3 lines of that, then you would have a few lines of that and the c shaped part of the letter. Then you would have a few lines of that with the line going up. then a few of the finished a. The next day was just on upper case A, then was a day writing both upper and lower case as practice. Then you would have a day of lower case b, then a day of upper case B. Then a day on both... Once we got through all of that then we just had a few days of practice writing all the letters over and over. Then in 4th grade we had a refresher going over all the letter again. Then had to start writing full words learning how some letters can be connected without needing to lift your pencil starting with small words for practice working up to larger words. Some practice was simply practicing connecting letters together so like aaaaaaaa in cursive over and over again. Then once we got to a certain point for 4th and then all of 5th grade everything had to be in cursive. Anything wrote in print was instantly graded as a zero. Come 6th grade we could write however we wanted and never used cursive again. I write much neater in print than i do cursive.

If taught as something that would take maybe a couple of days of their English class to be shown this is how you make all the letters, give them a few words to write out and carry on then sure. But when you got through the level of it like we did in school that was a waste. There is no need to write 50 cursive lower case As over and over to make sure that your marks are perfect. In this day and age most school work is done on a computer so knowing how to type is more important than fancy writing. And if you just need to be able to read it then you just need to be shown what the letters are that's it. Its no different than roman numerals. That is something that you will come across in far more often then cursive, we spent maybe 1 or 2 math session going over the fact that I = 1, V = 5, X = 10, L = 50, C = 100 and for 1 unit below the new character you prefix it with the lower character so instead IIII you do IV for 4. IX for 9 and so on. Didn't have to spent weeks or months on the subject and everyone know that enough to know that OS X is OS version 10. GTA V is grand theft auto 5. Superbowl LII this year was 52.
Click to expand...

Holy crap. I'm 29 and remember being taught how to read and write cursive in 2nd grade. I also remember getting through the alphabet in a week. Not days. The last time cursive was required was 5th grade. 6th and beyond it was optional with the exception of a few teachers.

I get where you're coming from. If that's how I would of been taught I would be right there with you. All that time, it is a waste. It should be taught, not mastered.
 
Never mind kids, I see alleged grown-ups using that ridiculous thumb-wrap monkey fist technique all the time and it makes me cringe. It's got to be the least comfortable way of holding a writing implement possible, not to mention the slowest way to write. But it's all good, because those obsolete skills have been superseded by much more worthwhile modern ones that involve simply jabbing at a touchscreen, like being able to buy match-3 games on the app store and posting on facebook.
 
Susquehannock said:
Does not surprise me a bit. Just last week I noticed a youngster struggling to write his name on the guest book at a funeral using the "Thumb-wrap grasp" described in that article.
Click to expand...

You know what? When I was a kid back before you had all the touch screen stuff, you STILL had most of the kids doing the thumb wrap grip. I also wonder about the professionals voicing concern for delayed hand writing. As back in the late 70s/early 80s, the problem existed in large numbers, AND the curriculum was sufficiently different that handwriting wasn't really pushed on you in any significant quantity until 1st grade. I now have a kid in 1st grade and he is forced to write a heck of a lot more than I was at his age. The big thing pushed earlier in kingergarten and pre-k to develop the motor control back then as now seems to be using scissors and then making you write.

Remember those plasticy rubber triangle things for pencils for your child hood? Yeah they were to break you of the thumb wrap grip.

Not a new problem, when are young children supposed to develop the fine motor control and strength? In the womb? Back when I was a kid the gripe wasn't that tablets are ruining kids, but the fact that teachers couldn't beat the shitty hand writing out of you anymore was.
 
Betaboy1983 said:
I'll pack the dirt on that grave actually. I learned it of course, but do I use it... ever?
Click to expand...

You should be able to read it. It's a sad time when people can't read documents written in this country just fifty years ago, let-alone stuff like the Declaration of Independence.

But I think the entire reason for having it for writing was outmoded by the ball-point pen. Print WRITING is all we really need to teach today.

But yeah, we still need the written word. We're still a hundred years away from machines wiping our asses, and until they can do that, we're still going to have to be able to take notes without a computer.
 
defaultluser said:
But yeah, we still need the written word. We're still a hundred years away from machines wiping our asses, and until they can do that, we're still going to have to be able to take notes without a computer.
Click to expand...

It's easy to take handwritten notes with a number of computing devices today. Digital ink has made something a resurgence these days, drawing and handwriting are still useful ways to interact with a computer where keyboards and pointing devices aren't efficient or ideal.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
It's easy to take handwritten notes with a number of computing devices today. Digital ink has made something a resurgence these days, drawing and handwriting are still useful ways to interact with a computer where keyboards and pointing devices aren't efficient or ideal.
Click to expand...

And for those cases when you're away from your tablet, but still need to remember things?

We're not yet at a point where digital ink is as ubiquitous as post-its and pens, so knowing how to jot down a note on paper is of value. OR jot it down on your own hands?

It may NEVER BE as ubiquitous as pen and paper. It's got a long way to go, both in cost and power consumption, before it's competitive.

If you have to keep it perpetually plugged in to a charger, you're way less likely to use it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top