Certification...

[imzjustplayin]

A+ Certification and Network+ certification are both equally as worthless, right? Worthless meaning it demonstrates the minimum amount of computer knowledge, yes I know technically you could study even for the highest certs and pass and still know jack.. But Network+ = A+ right? One thing however I heard was that Network+ was worth more than A+ but from what I've read, Network+ just really cover much..

 

[IntelOwnz]

A+ Certification and Network+ certification are both equally as worthless, right? Worthless meaning it demonstrates the minimum amount of computer knowledge, yes I know technically you could study even for the highest certs and pass and still know jack.. But Network+ = A+ right? One thing however I heard was that Network+ was worth more than A+ but from what I've read, Network+ just really cover much..

To tell you the truth I spent a few hundred bucks and weeks studying for my A+, Network+, and CCNA and guess what...it did not impact my pay rate nor did it increase my chance of landing a job...total waste imho

Unless you get CCIE and have a Bachelors degree from a 4 year college, no one seems to care

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

A+ Certification and Network+ certification are both equally as worthless, right? Worthless meaning it demonstrates the minimum amount of computer knowledge, yes I know technically you could study even for the highest certs and pass and still know jack.. But Network+ = A+ right? One thing however I heard was that Network+ was worth more than A+ but from what I've read, Network+ just really cover much..

Two totally different courses/certs. A+ is hardware and OS..the computers themselves. Network plus deal with..."networks".

IMO they are both good to get, not worthless...the build a good foundation for higher up courses/certs.

Just do courses/certs the right way..."learn them". Don't do the braindump sites just to absorb questions/answers...because those people are sooo easy to pickout in the field.

Hands on is also equally, if not more, important.
Combine them all for a well rounded background.

 

[Orinthical]

It depends on where you want to go within the industry - do you want to start out as a helpdesk tech and work your way up to being a server engineer or do you want to start out as a helpdesk tech and move into networking... notice that they both had the same starting point, which is typical of most places.

A+ is generally the bare-minimum for new hires these days and most will ask for an MCP or comparable linux certification in addition to it.

 

[s0ldier93]

A+ is generally the bare-minimum for new hires these days and most will ask for an MCP or comparable linux certification in addition to it.

What if someone had a non IT 4 year degree, with MCP, CCNA, and Linux+ with no A+ or Network+?

 

[BlessedBullet]

They're not worth a lot when getting a job. It will only give you a leg up on entry level jobs because it means they won't have to train you as hard.

The knowledge does come in handy though. I studied Net+, A+, and MSCE material and it preped me for a lot of IT course work.

 

[Malk-a-mite]

What if someone had a non IT 4 year degree, with MCP, CCNA, and Linux+ with no A+ or Network+?

A degree will always help, most recuirters and management don't care if it's an IT degree or not. If you have a CCNA you don't really need the Network+ since it covers similar material without the Cisco specific commands. A+ as mentioned before is more about hardware and IRQs than anything else (granted I got mine over 10 years ago now).

 

[Orinthical]

The sad fact of the matter is that most places hire by proxy - the server team oft won't meet the "new engineer" until they arrive on-site. Some places are changing this by either hiring technical HR people or involving the teams in the hiring process but not many.

So what does a cert give you? A leg-up on someone who doesn't have one, because the sad fact of the matter is that when the paper-pushing HR person goes through a stack of resumes they are more likely to keep yours if you have some certifications listed. Unfortunately this means that the guy with eighteen certifications who doesn't know how to plug a network cable in is going to get his foot in the door faster than you.

Most places prefer college education of one form or the other and some will count that as years of experience, a practice which is great when you're trying to get a job but unfortunately rather flawed. I know you worked your butt off for two to four years getting that degree but -most- candidates who have a degree but no experience should never be put up against a person who X years of real-world experience.

It's unfortunate that most employers will do the following during the resume sort: People with degrees and experience will become tier one candidates. People with a degree but no experience will be bundled with people who have certifications and experience but no degree and become tier two candidates. People with no certifications or degree but do have experience rarely make it to the CIO's desk... unless it's a lot of credible experience.

It's a common practice but not always the case so don't give up hope; just spread your resumes like college applications, far and wide. Don't count on your dream job coming up right away.

 

[IntelOwnz]

The sad fact of the matter is that most places hire by proxy - the server team oft won't meet the "new engineer" until they arrive on-site. Some places are changing this by either hiring technical HR people or involving the teams in the hiring process but not many.

So what does a cert give you? A leg-up on someone who doesn't have one, because the sad fact of the matter is that when the paper-pushing HR person goes through a stack of resumes they are more likely to keep yours if you have some certifications listed. Unfortunately this means that the guy with eighteen certifications who doesn't know how to plug a network cable in is going to get his foot in the door faster than you.

Most places prefer college education of one form or the other and some will count that as years of experience, a practice which is great when you're trying to get a job but unfortunately rather flawed. I know you worked your butt off for two to four years getting that degree but -most- candidates who have a degree but no experience should never be put up against a person who X years of real-world experience.

It's unfortunate that most employers will do the following during the resume sort: People with degrees and experience will become tier one candidates. People with a degree but no experience will be bundled with people who have certifications and experience but no degree and become tier two candidates. People with no certifications or degree but do have experience rarely make it to the CIO's desk... unless it's a lot of credible experience.

It's a common practice but not always the case so don't give up hope; just spread your resumes like college applications, far and wide. Don't count on your dream job coming up right away.

What if it doesn't come up even after 3 years?

 

[Orinthical]

What if it doesn't come up even after 3 years?

Meaning that you already have a job and they haven't approached you about becoming certified? Good for you. You still need to think about your future as your next employer may not be so experience-minded.

Or that your dream job hasn't come up? ... if the latter, that depends on what your dream job is. I'd like to watch monitors ever day and make a million dollars plus a year... but that hasn't come up yet. hehe

 

[Malk-a-mite]

Or that your dream job hasn't come up? ... if the latter, that depends on what your dream job is. I'd like to watch monitors ever day and make a million dollars plus a year... but that hasn't come up yet. hehe

When it does, let us know how many openings there are.

 

[IntelOwnz]

When it does, let us know how many openings there are.

Nah I'm talking striaght up Network Tech/Engineer position that pays more then $15/hour.

I'm still working on my degree but I have A+, Network+, CCNA, Windows 2003 Server Administration, Terminal Services, and I am working towards my CCNP.

 

[Malk-a-mite]

Nah I'm talking straight up Network Tech/Engineer position that pays more then $15/hour.

Move to a bigger city is about all I can say. I have friends in DC, NY, and Chicago with similar backgrounds all making much more than $15/hour.

Some of them are in the financial markets so their pay is about 20% higher than the market standard. Help desk jobs that would go for about 35k/year can hit 45-50k with some hedge funds. Network Admin/Engineer can easily see 80k+.

 

[MavsX]

yeah man, if your only making 15 an hour, thats temp pay. You need to find a bigger company, maybe a bigger city.

monster.com is a good place to start.

 

[Malk-a-mite]

yeah man, if your only making 15 an hour, thats temp pay. You need to find a bigger company, maybe a bigger city.

monster.com is a good place to start.

Personally for tech jobs I've had better luck with Dice.com

 

[IntelOwnz]

Yea Dice.com is a little better, not enough though...

I suppose the city's economy is pretty bad lately, but overall it's a rather large city. Population of about 1.2mil

I only wish I could move away...

 

[WesM63]

Nah I'm talking striaght up Network Tech/Engineer position that pays more then $15/hour.

I'm still working on my degree but I have A+, Network+, CCNA, Windows 2003 Server Administration, Terminal Services, and I am working towards my CCNP.

Ouch, I made that before my certs and I live in a very small city pop. 8k.

IMHO, experience (5+yrs) bundled with certs really helps.

 

[cb9fl]

A person that says certs are worthless likely has not studied for them. I'm about to begin studying again to pass the CCNA but in the mean time I have been reading the Cisco Complete VPN Guide. The Guide is used for one of the CCSP tests. Studying and passing certs doesn't give you real world experience but it certainly helps to augment it. Certification books, especially ones from Cisco, contain a great deal of information. Even an experienced person is usually able to glean information from technical books and manuals.

 

[BobSutan]

Okay, here's BobSutan's take on certs:

They may or may not improve your chances of getting hired, but you will certainly learn something in the process of becoming certified (no matter what the cert is in). Some companies look at certs and give them more value than the company next door. That's the say it is. For each person on here certs will hold a different degree of value than the person posting before and after them. That's life. For myself, my job reimbursed me my expenses of getting my CCNA and gave me a nice bonus for doing so. I also can get other jobs within the company because of it.

The flip side is that some jobs I'd like to do require a CCNP, degree, and x years of experience. If they cannot fill those jobs then maybe down the line they'll take a look at me. In reality it means I need to knock out my degree and CCNP if I want that job. It shows initiative and employers like that since it saves them from having to bring in someone new who they know nothing about.

 

[tdg]

Everyone has their own opinion on particular certs, and many opinions are based on a lack of knowledge of those certs in my opinion. The A+ test in particular is only intended to be knowledge that a new tech would gain in 6 months of on-the-job experience. It is not, nor ever was, intended to replace real world experience or college education.

For me, the A+ worked well when I first got it, having just some college, and 2 years of experience. When I left my first IT job and started doing contract work, nobody was interested in me without the A+ cert, as soon as I got it I started landing $30/hour contracts regularly. Now that I have 8 years of IT work at many various places/positions under my belt, I doubt the A+ would mean a whole lot to a perspective employer. It's really more valuable to a beginner as a way of showing you have the fundamentals down.

The major advantage really to certs is, if a perspective employer requires or at least desires them, if you have it you meet the requirements. If you don't have it, your then at a disadvantage if not disqualified. They will never hurt you, and they are not that expensive. Think of them as additional insurance for a job, it doesn't make you a shoe-in nor does discredit you. Just my two cents though.