CCD MI-6: Performance in a 6.7L MIcrotower

[Firewolfy]

That would be very cool. Although I read that the Scythe Big Shuriken 2 is capable of cooling a 130W CPU. I'm not sure if that is completely true.

Personally I think the choice you have made for a short graphics card and larger CPU heat sink is the logical one. For me it's a better design both practically and aesthetically than the Dan A4. So I hope there is enough interest in the case to make production worthwhile for you.

Also to mention on aesthetics again, I think the minimalist front panel looks great, as do the slightly smoothed corners on the side and top panels. The rear power switch is neat too. For me though, one thing that always looks beautiful is the blasted aluminium finish of Streacom and Apple products. I'm not sure if that's an achievable look? But I would pay a premium for it.

Also just putting this out there but I work with 3D graphics quite a lot. So if you need some assistance rendering then I'd be happy to help you out. It looks to me you're handling it well on your own though!

Thx for the feedback, it's always welcome. I am currently looking at powder coat all over, but maybe something special like satin black anodize on the front.

I appreciate the offer of help. I think I'm OK rendering for now.

Thx

 

[Boil]

Now the real big question on this chassis is about the HSF/CPU cooler…

What is the final clearance going to be, and what is the best solution for said clearance…?

Is there a high quality cooler that fits as close as possible to the side panel for maximum fresh air intake, yet offers either 120mm or 140mm fan coverage to allow cooling to more than just the CPU (RAM, PCH, VRM)…?!?

Is there a single source solution, or might we need to buy one unit for the heat sink assembly itself, and add in a fan from another source…?

Meanwhile, over in Full Water Cooled SFF Land…

I am now thinking about a chassis that incorporates the following in the smallest package possible:

Gigabyte H170 miniITX MB
Intel i5 6500 3.2GHz CPU
Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 RAM - 2 @ 8GB DIMMs
Corsair H5 SF miniITX AIO CPU cooler
Radeon R9 Fury GPU w/AIO cooler
Intel 750-series 15mm x 2.5" SSD (w/M.2 interface cable)
Corsair SF600 SFX PSU

It's kinda like a game of Tetris…

Alright, after some staring at assorted images for awhile…

MB & CPU AIO assembly, with R9 Fury in PCIe slot as normal (no PCIe riser cable or any of that). GPU AIO cooler in front of MB/AIO/GPU assembly, blowing out the front of the chassis…

CPU AIO is blowing out the rear of the chassis…

We tip the assembly onto the GPU side, place the PSU underneath, cable pit in front of the PSU…

System drive would be an M.2 SSD… No other drives in the chassis…

I am thinking it would be about the same overall dimensions as the MI-6, but a bit deeper (front to back) because of the GPU AIO assembly & a bit taller because of the GPU in its standard location…?

Air intake would be from the top, no fans, just the two AIOs pulling in fresh air as they blow out hot air…

So, maybe coming in at about 7 liters or so…?

The worlds smallest fully water cooled gaming rig…?

Biggest issue would be the limited choices in larger than mITX cards but smaller than average cards, with integrated AIO coolers…

But it would be cool from a geek/nerd standpoint…!

 

[thehack]

From what I read on a few tests, it is best to leave some clearance between the perforation and the fan. This allows a buffer of air to decrease turbulence.

I feel like AIO cooling is not good for SFF. You end up have a lot more cooling capacity than you need. I'm sure a 120mm can handle both a 1070 and a cpu.

 

[TriangleDragon]

Water cooling would be nice, but I think if an air cooled unit can cool 130W it's enough. From what I've seen the Big Shuriken 2 is the best heatsink at this size. It's only 58mm with a 12mm fan so a 15mm could fit although I think if there isn't much room between the fan and the outside wall it might be noisier? I'm not sure.

I used to own a Rajintek Metis case (actually Element Atomic) which I fitted with a large 120mm radiator and 2 25mm fans. It had a large PSU with a 140mm fan in reverse to blow air into the case and out the back through the radiator. It was a good setup but I decided to move onto another project not long after because the pump was too noisy and I just thought it was quite an ugly case. [Edit] The Metis is about 13L.

 

[Lutfij]

Well, consider me onboard this little project I'm yet to read through the entire thread but one friend may be interested in such a SFF chassis. Estimate on a price if these are built to a numbered quantity?

 

[Necere]

The Metis is very efficient though and I think it's about 8L.

The Metis is 13.4L.

 

[Firewolfy]

Well, I adjusted the GPU to make sure that cards as tall as the Giga 970 will fit. Ended up lowering the PCIE mount .2", moved the PCI slot openings to match. I'll get a view of it up here.

I also realized that the 4mm I added to the case length last week means that a 92mm fan will fit in the bottom of the chassis. !! No longer stuck with a 80mm fan there.

And, for those who want to use this case for serious storage, it can fit six 7mm HDD/SSDs, or three 15mm, some combination. So there's that. Maybe for a home server or NAS?

 

[Firewolfy]

Ok here is a quick model of a 92mm fan envelope in place, a 15mm HDD/SSD in the duplex bracket, and a 7mm in the upper single bracket. There is about 2mm of gap on each end of the fan, which is about the lowest I'd want to go with tolerance stackups and all.

I lowered the GPU features 0.2" like I said. The PCIE riser cable bend is a bit closer to the PSU but I didn't have to change the bend radius at all, so that is good.

One new item, the PCI flange cover, or whatever one might want to call it. It is ventilated and held by the 1 screw, and holds the card down and in place. The idea is to just loosen the screw and slide up the cover release the card.

EDIT -- I forgot to show the max HDD condition. Here it is. Looks crazy to me.

 

[Boil]

…92mm fan…

…loosen the screw and slide up the cover …

Yay…!!! Larger fan…! That is a Good Thing…!

What thickness fan are you looking at on the bottom there…? Is that a full 25mm or a slim 15mm…?

Captured thumbscrew…?!?

What is the current CPU cooler clearance dimensions at this point…?

What is the CPU cooler model in the rendering…?

Looking good Firewolfy…!!!

 

[Firewolfy]

Yay…!!! Larger fan…! That is a Good Thing…!

What thickness fan are you looking at on the bottom there…? Is that a full 25mm or a slim 15mm…?

Captured thumbscrew…?!?

What is the current CPU cooler clearance dimensions at this point…?

What is the CPU cooler model in the rendering…?

Looking good Firewolfy…!!!

That is a 15mm fan down there.
I will have a thumb screw and hopefully captive on the PCI bracket cover. I just stuck a #6 panhead screw in there for now.
I have found a way to take 2.5-3mm from the GPU side. I was at 43 without a backplate, but I think I only need to have 40mm. That takes the CPU cooler side to around 65-66!
I just put a generic model of a 120mm in there, on top of a Thermalright AXP-100.

Thanks, bro.

EDIT -- Yeah I was hating the idea of a dinky 80mm in there, so very nice to get a 92!!!!!!

 

[Boil]

The AXP-100 is 44mm in height without the included fan…

A standard 120mm x 25mm fan would not fit & Noctua has not released their slim 120mm fan yet…

This heatsink, with the addition of a Noctua 140mm x 25mm fan, would come in right at 65mm…

ID-COOLING IS-50 HTPC/Mini-ITX Cooling with 5 Direct Touch Heatpipe, 120mm Big Airflow Fan, 55mm Height, Intel & AMD-Newegg.com

Noctua NF-P14r redux-1500 PWM, SSO Bearing Fan_ - Newegg.com

And this fan on the bottom of the chassis…

Noctua A-Series NF-A9x14 92mm Blades with AAO Frame, SSO2 Bearing Premium PWM Low-profile Fan - Newegg.com

Even if you do not edit the dimensions on the first page yet, you should edit the GPU list (to add the Gigabyte mITX GTX 1070)…!

 

[thehack]

You can't really stack drives that close without a splitter for sata power but nothing outside the ream of possibilities.

I have a big shuriken myself and it is a very capable cpu cooler. If it can be paired with the new noctua slim it'd be a very quiet set up.

I am a little worried about the cost of this case though. I hope you can keep it at $150+ship.

 

[Firewolfy]

You can't really stack drives that close without a splitter for sata power but nothing outside the ream of possibilities.

I have a big shuriken myself and it is a very capable cpu cooler. If it can be paired with the new noctua slim it'd be a very quiet set up.

I am a little worried about the cost of this case though. I hope you can keep it at $150+ship.

Well, a SATA power conector is 7mm thick, and the drives will be more than 7mm center-to-center, since there is clearance for ventilation, so connection isn't a problem. But yes, some cables will have a big extra loop of cable between the 2 SATA conns. For stock cables anyway.

I keep looking up the Shuriken, and wondering what kind of power it can dissipate with good clean air. An idea?

We are on the same page on cost. The project goal is keeping it below $150 in 100pc volumes, below $200 in 50pc.

 

[thehack]

Well, a SATA power conector is 7mm thick, and the drives will be more than 7mm center-to-center, since there is clearance for ventilation, so connection isn't a problem. But yes, some cables will have a big extra loop of cable between the 2 SATA conns. For stock cables anyway.

I keep looking up the Shuriken, and wondering what kind of power it can dissipate with good clean air. An idea?

We are on the same page on cost. The project goal is keeping it below $150 in 100pc volumes, below $200 in 50pc.

For the SATA power cables, the issue is the stiffness of the cables. I know for sure if we're talking about a Corsair SF would require 15mm of clearance due to how stiff it is. However, it's nothing a $6 Y splitter can't solve. It's just one more thing to keep in mind.

For the Shuriken 2, it has 5 heat pipes and a 120mm fan 12mm. I'd say it is adequate in providing cooling for overclocking an i5 stock, and i7 if you can replace the fan. Since no one really benchmarks it against tower coolers and only compares it low-profile, I'd estimate its performance to be a notch below the ever popular Hyper 212 Evo. As far as I know, the Shuriken 2 comes with one of the best slim fans on the market, the slipstream. I currently have the cooler in my ML08 build. Dead silent in regular usage. I don't use any CPU heavy programs so I haven't heard it spin up yet.

If possible, the MI-6 should use the Shuriken 2 + 15mm fan (in preparation for Noctua's new 15mm slim fan) as a benchmark. It's good to design around proven products.

For good performance, make sure you test out the ventilation design. It seems like there needs to be more ventilation on the side panels for the air to get through. Looking at Dan's case, he had a lot more holes. I wouldn't mind non-circular designs. I know the ventilation design plays into the overall cost of the panel.

 

[Firewolfy]

Oh, I didn't think about the cable stiffness. I guess it's about time to get a Corsair SF 600 and check it out. I've been thinking about it, just haven't pulled the trigger.

Yes, the vent hole size and pattern is not finalized yet. Dan's can does have the PSU inlet on the side, so there are more holes for that. The A4 has pretty small holes, and I'm thinking of larger, maybe .125 or .188".

Here is what I am having made:

Since getting a prototype cover like this made is Much cheaper than with all the holes, I am getting this. I will put in different perforated sheets to gauge appearance and cooling.

 

[Firewolfy]

Well, consider me onboard this little project I'm yet to read through the entire thread but one friend may be interested in such a SFF chassis. Estimate on a price if these are built to a numbered quantity?

Lutfig--
Thanks for the post. I hope I answered your price question with my post on 7/4.

 

[Firewolfy]

Shuriken 2 or AXP100???? I need to pick one for testing.

 

[thehack]

Can't go wrong with either. The shuriken 2 is more popular however. I'd go with that.

If you want, go with the SF450 to save some money. The PSU is very well made and can handle it's rated load continously.

 

[Boil]

Shuriken 2 or AXP100???? I need to pick one for testing.

Cryorig C1…?!? ;^p

(Man, that Boil is such a dick…)

 

[Boil]

The AXP-100 is 44mm in height without the included fan…

A standard 120mm x 25mm fan would not fit & Noctua has not released their slim 120mm fan yet…

This heatsink, with the addition of a Noctua 140mm x 25mm fan, would come in right at 65mm…

ID-COOLING IS-50 HTPC/Mini-ITX Cooling with 5 Direct Touch Heatpipe, 120mm Big Airflow Fan, 55mm Height, Intel & AMD-Newegg.com

Noctua NF-P14r redux-1500 PWM, SSO Bearing Fan_ - Newegg.com

Maybe try the combo I mentioned earlier as well…?

The IS-50 is rated for 130 watts, so a stock non K-series Skylake at 65 watts should do well, and the 140mm Noctua fan can only help with overall cooling of the other components on the MB (RAM, PCH, VRM)…

 

[Boil]

Here is what I am having made:

Since getting a prototype cover like this made is Much cheaper than with all the holes, I am getting this. I will put in different perforated sheets to gau

So, going to a single USB on top…?!? ;^p

Good idea on the opening to allow for testing different perf patterns & such…

Just make sure to set it up so the inserts are flush with the rest of the housing; mounted to the inside takes away from your CPU cooler clearance, mounted to the outside gives you more clearance than intended…

I know I am being pedantic…

 

[Firewolfy]

Yes you are right, the C1 would be Sweetness and Light! Somebody has to quit going to his stinking day job and get that 65mm revision done! That guy is such a slacker!!

And yeah, there will only be 1 usb. I test fit the double usb with audio pcb with cable, and the routing of 2 usb3 cables got really ugly. Does it make my case look fat, i mean ugly? Both?

I am getting perf sheets the same thickness or less than the cover, and will mount flush. Yup, gotta account for every mm.

 

[Firewolfy]

Well a bit of an Update---

Bad news: The parts for 3 prototype cases haven't been made yet at the shop.

Good news #1: The order is in the queue, the design includes the 4mm longer case to fit 15mm SSD and 92mm fan, repositioned center divider to fit 65-66mm cpu cooler, single usb3 on top to reduce cable clutter.

Good news #2: Had 1 of the initial chassis prototypes powdercoated. It looks fantastic. Black with minor texture.

 

[alex1577]

Wow that powdercoat makes me even more hyped to see this case released! Please make this standard finish or easily available. Much better than any anodizing or paint finish. I was also wondering if this is using aluminum? 5mm thick?

 

[Firewolfy]

Wow that powdercoat makes me even more hyped to see this case released! Please make this standard finish or easily available. Much better than any anodizing or paint finish. I was also wondering if this is using aluminum? 5mm thick?

IT is more durable than anodizing or wet painting, and the price isn't bad. The photos make it look like there is a Lot of roughness, but it's actually not very rough. The photos are of the 2mm thick chassis.

 

[Boil]

The photos are of the 2mm thick chassis.

Dude, I just measured that close-up pic on my screen, it is showing as 8mm thick…!!!

 

[Firewolfy]

You guys with your crazy big monitors. On my phone screen its only 1.2mm!

And Alex, yes it is an all aluminum case.

 

[Firewolfy]

Maybe try the combo I mentioned earlier as well…?

The IS-50 is rated for 130 watts, so a stock non K-series Skylake at 65 watts should do well, and the 140mm Noctua fan can only help with overall cooling of the other components on the MB (RAM, PCH, VRM)…

Boil,
You recommend the IS-50. What about the IS-60? 6 pipes instead of 5 in same ht.

Well, its between the IS-50/60 and the Shuriken 2. Anyone have one I can borrow (when the case is ready)? I could then buy the other, and do a comparo...

EDIT -- Maybe I should put the Noctua L9-65 on the list. It only has 4 heatpipes but I hear a lot of peeps like Noctua.

 

[Boil]

Boil,
You recommend the IS-50. What about the IS-60? 6 pipes instead of 5 in same ht.

Well, its between the IS-50/60 and the Shuriken 2. Anyone have one I can borrow (when the case is ready)? I could then buy the other, and do a comparo...

EDIT -- Maybe I should put the Noctua L9-65 on the list. It only has 4 heatpipes but I hear a lot of peeps like Noctua.

You are correct, the IS-60 would be the better choice; more heat pipes = better…!

I would still pair this with a 140mm Noctua with the 120mm mounting pattern; maximum airflow to the entire MB area, rather than just the immediate CPU area that the L9-65 would cover…

With a mITX GTX 1070 inside, I am seeing a REALLY nice compact Elite Dangerous rig in the makings here…!!!

 

[alex1577]

Boil,
You recommend the IS-50. What about the IS-60? 6 pipes instead of 5 in same ht.

Well, its between the IS-50/60 and the Shuriken 2. Anyone have one I can borrow (when the case is ready)? I could then buy the other, and do a comparo...

EDIT -- Maybe I should put the Noctua L9-65 on the list. It only has 4 heatpipes but I hear a lot of peeps like Noctua.

Even though the noctua is not the best at the given width, it is still a selling point that the case is wide enough to fit it since everyone loves noctua.

 

[Firewolfy]

Even though the noctua is not the best at the given width, it is still a selling point that the case is wide enough to fit it since everyone loves noctua.

Good point Alex. I'll test all three. I was thinking about going whole-hog and getting a 6700k, 1070itx, corsair sf600 set up. That way I could try some mild overclocking. But the money probably isn't there. Anyone see any problems using a 6600k instead?

--Oh, BTW, I updated the first page with project updates and design updates and pics!

--and yes, as the project status says, I'm still waiting on the latest prototype cases.

 

[Boil]

i5 6600K / mITX 1070 / SF600 seems a perfect mid-range gaming rig…! I could see applying a mild overclock to a K-series i5… Depends on the overall system temps I guess…

Now to head over to page one & see what might be new…!

 

[Boil]

Also, you now need to add the Zotac mITX 1060 into the listings…!

Zotac shows off its custom GTX 1060 tiny terrors

Man, there are more showing up; EVGA has 2 mITX 1060s listed (both 6GB versions, one SuperClocked)… Your list is gonna fill up again soon…!

That EVGA 6GB model, with a 3.2GHz i5 6500 (NON K-series) CPU; would make up a nice 'low-end' gaming rig in the MI-6…!

I am definitely gonna be looking hard at reviews of both the mITX 1070s & mITX 1060s (6GB version) before deciding on a GPU…!

Probably go for a sorta 'budget' build (budget while still being newer components); i5 6500 CPU / 16GB RAM / EVGA 6GB mITX 1060; still looking forward to temp reports on M.2 SSDs, both SATA III & NVMe varieties, if possible…!

 

[Firewolfy]

Also, you now need to add the Zotac mITX 1060 into the listings…!

Zotac shows off its custom GTX 1060 tiny terrors

That 6GB model, with a 3.2GHz i5 6500 (NON K-series) CPU; would make up a nice 'low-end' gaming rig in the MI-6…!

I am definitely gonna be looking hard at reviews of both the mITX 1070s & mITX 1060s (6GB version) before deciding on a GPU…!

Nice catch! -And I see EVGA has a couple as well, good news, good news!
I added them both to the GPU list on page 1.

--As far as CPU, I want to tax each cooler and see how many watts they will dissipate. I would think we could go over 130w with a 65mm cooler and nice, clean, fresh, cool air (!)

 

[Boil]

I will be interested to see the CPU cooler results breakdown…

I am leaning towards the ID-60 + Noctua 25x140mm fan (w/120mm screw pattern), if it will fit properly into the enclosure…

But the L9-65 will be interesting to see as well…

I lean towards the former because it would also cool the other MB components, not just the CPU itself…

 

[Firewolfy]

Well, the vent pattern was designed to fit a 120x120 on any 97/150/170 motherboard. I think some of a 140 would overlap the vents on a side

 

[Boil]

More looking at if the fan sticks out past the MB & hits any mounted drives or protrudes above the MB and hits the 'roof'…

Wanting to use a 140mm fan w/120mm screw pattern for maximum airflow in the CPU side of the chassis (along with the bottom-mount 92mm fan)…

 

[iFreilicht]

Didn't come in for a while, good to see you're ordering prototypes now. Very eager to see those new ones! I've got a few questions to catch up with the project.

In this picture, what is the lip above the SFX-cutout for? Stiffness? Also, I only see three mounting holes for the PSU. Couldn't that be a problem with PSUs that have this mounting hole pattern with the fan upwards?

You say you've already found your manufacturer for the Front I/O. Have you designed the circuit yourself? How are you handling EMI issues on the audio and where did you find the audio jacks with the isolated switch that is required for Intel HD Audio? Also, why did you go down to a single USB connector, just aesthetic or functional reasons?

15mm HDD support seems like a good idea. While I personally don't need it, it allows for up to 12GB of HDD storage in your case. While 4TB SSDs are on their way, they are about 10 times as expensive as HDDs, so for now this can be quite useful. And U.2 SSD support isn't bad either.

 

[Boil]

The inclusion of the Kensington cable lock mount point is a nice little touch…!

 

[Firewolfy]

Didn't come in for a while, good to see you're ordering prototypes now. Very eager to see those new ones! I've got a few questions to catch up with the project.

In this picture, what is the lip above the SFX-cutout for? Stiffness? Also, I only see three mounting holes for the PSU. Couldn't that be a problem with PSUs that have this mounting hole pattern with the fan upwards?

You say you've already found your manufacturer for the Front I/O. Have you designed the circuit yourself? How are you handling EMI issues on the audio and where did you find the audio jacks with the isolated switch that is required for Intel HD Audio? Also, why did you go down to a single USB connector, just aesthetic or functional reasons?

15mm HDD support seems like a good idea. While I personally don't need it, it allows for up to 12GB of HDD storage in your case. While 4TB SSDs are on their way, they are about 10 times as expensive as HDDs, so for now this can be quite useful. And U.2 SSD support isn't bad either.

Good questions--
Well, yes the lip above the psu is a stiffener flange. The model looked like it might be a bit flexible there, with all the material removed, so I added it. I hadn't given it another thought until you mentioned it, but I think I will cut it off the initial prototype and see how the chassis behaves without it. Maybe I can save a bit of fab expense (!).

On the mounting holes, I checked all the target sfx psu's and they all fit correctly. The Silverstone (7 models), Corsair (2), FSP (3), Bequiet (2) and Lian-Li (2) mainstream sfx psu's all are ok. About 1/2 of them have only 5 holes on the psu (and all those are non-modular), but their orientations are all the same. They all will mount with the fan down. Like this Silverstone ST30SF (nonmodular with 5 holes):

The I/O is just a standard board-cable assembly. I had the mfgr revise it for the usb3.0 instead of 2.0. The audio line is just basic standard ATX MB style setup.
I just reviewed your discussions on your Freilite Brevis S thread regarding audio circuits adn it looks like you have a good handle on what is required for a HD line.

The change to single USB 3.0 was because 2 usb3.0 cables got kind of ridiculous to route. I might go back to 2 if there is a lot of interest, but 1 for now.