CCD MI-6: Performance in a 6.7L MIcrotower

[Boil]

YES…!

 

[Jen]

Jen,
Thx for the feedback. Well I don't have much in the way of tools either, LOL. All I have is a new sheet metal brake for simple bends. Everything else is outsourced.

yes same here basic sheetmetal benders , some grinders , welders , sanders and drill press . with health issues and breaking my ankle i havent been able to do much . just watching threads like this inspires me to keep trying to get better and try new ideas in the future

you are very talented in your designing of this case .

 

[Boil]

Got this SF600 PSU still sitting here, waiting for a home…

But I would like to ask about adding the ability to mount dual NF-A9x14 fans up top for exhaust again…?!?

With the (optional) "no front i/o" faceplate (meaning I could use the lower front mount for a second Intel 750 Series 2.5" (x15mm) SSD…

Because I just realized the Asus Strix Z270 ITX MB has PCIe 3.0 x4 to both of its M.2 slots, AND it will allow configuring for RAID across the M.2 slots…!

 

[Firewolfy]

yes same here basic sheetmetal benders , some grinders , welders , sanders and drill press . with health issues and breaking my ankle i havent been able to do much . just watching threads like this inspires me to keep trying to get better and try new ideas in the future

you are very talented in your designing of this case .

Thx Jen. Well I do have some other tools too, but no high-end metalworking equipment (yet!)

 

[Firewolfy]

Got this SF600 PSU still sitting here, waiting for a home…

But I would like to ask about adding the ability to mount dual NF-A9x14 fans up top for exhaust again…?!?

With the (optional) "no front i/o" faceplate (meaning I could use the lower front mount for a second Intel 750 Series 2.5" (x15mm) SSD…

Because I just realized the Asus Strix Z270 ITX MB has PCIe 3.0 x4 to both of its M.2 slots, AND it will allow configuring for RAID across the M.2 slots…!

Boil,
RAID across 2 Intel SSDs sounds sweeeet.

I'm doing some thinking on your top fans idea. Would need to add about 3/4" to the case height, taking it to about 7 liters, and change the top vent pattern. Would need a twin fan mounting bracket a la M1. That could eliminate the need for a bottom fan, and could just have a cable area there, and easier to deal with the cables.
It would offer likely better cooling of 2.5" SSDs and backside-m2 SSDs. Although I don't know if more cooling is needed (my cooling tests with a backside-m2 SSD stick showed no problems, and the 2.5" HDD mounted to the front was nice and cool). I understand that having 2 high-performance SSDs might make more heat though.

Big change to the MI-6 case design though.

So, the question is whether a market exists for it. It would be unique in the ever-more-crowded ITX case segment, --serious case cooling does not exist in many models (I think only the M1 can hold dual fans).

I'd love to hear some feedback on this idea.

 

[Boil]

My thoughts are that each main component (CPU / GPU / PSU) has a fan for cooling…

There is the bottom fan for intake…

Adding two top fans for exhaust…

All this should give lower temps overall…

But it will also allow all fans to run at slower speeds, thereby less overall noise…

As for dual 750s, it would be SO SWEET…! But, I do intend to make this chassis into a Hackintosh, and the ONLY ITX MB with Thunderbolt is the ASRock Fatal1ty Z270i-ITX/AC,so I will be going with a single 1.2TB 750 Series SSD… Gotta have that TB port for the Apollo Twin…!

 

[eggDK]

How do people feel about sacrificing some of the CPU cooler height in order to keep total volume down? After reading reviews of sub 50mm coolers I feel this would be acceptable, especially with 2*92mm for top exhaust.

 

[Boil]

Do not think there is much room for that, as the overall width of the chassis is dictated by the width of the SFX PSU…

I am totally fine with the volume increasing ever so slightly to 7 liters if it gives improved cooling of the chassis…

 

[eggDK]

... overall width of the chassis is dictated by the width of the SFX PSU…

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part of the layout..

 

[Jen]

very good design , i really do like this case. the use of powersupply and positioning of components with enough venting. the size is ideal for most everyone wanting a small system that is easy to carry with you and dont take up alot of desktop space. to many cases i wont mention say itx but you could fit a a atx motherboard in to them that is way beyond the concept of itx . i came from a time when matx was shunned as not ever being enough to game with now here we are at a new age where itx is now become very acceptable as it can offer alot for its size.

one of these days there will be even smaller boards that will replace these and cases , video cards or just gpu onboard will be more then enough to game with. we are close to that now i beleive a few more years we will be there

 

[EnzoFX]

Re: the dual fans up top.
I could be wrong but it almost feels like it comes down to whether you want to target those few that want to really load the case with all that it can, or target what most people will end up putting into it. I have no problem with the size increasing generally, but if it's for an extra fan that won't really bring me gains, even on the noise front, then why bother. Hm probably a bad example. But just a thought. Nevertheless it's up to you =).

I just got another idea for this future case of mine =P, adding a handle to it to add to it's practical nature as well as aiding in portability.

 

[Brian_R170]

I don't think the top fans are worth it. If this case already runs reasonably cool and quiet with relatively high-end components like a GTX1070 and a 65W i7 CPU, without overclocking, then you're done.

There are other options for enthusiasts that want to push the limits, such as custom internal duct-work around the CPU and GPU, a dedicated 40mm centrifugal fan to cool the M.2, etc.

 

[Revenant_Knight]

I don't see a need for the top fans either. I'm hoping that this can be as small as possible while still retaining a SFX PSU. The only thing I would hope is that we could find a way to integrate a 3.5inch HD for those of us who need a ton of bulk storage but don't want to use an external HD.

 

[Firewolfy]

I don't see a need for the top fans either. I'm hoping that this can be as small as possible while still retaining a SFX PSU. The only thing I would hope is that we could find a way to integrate a 3.5inch HD for those of us who need a ton of bulk storage but don't want to use an external HD.

Well, there would be room if the 3.5 is in place of the gpu. I looked at this last month and tried doing some geometric magic, the 3.5 is huge in this case. The only way is if a discrete gpu isnt needed.

 

[Revenant_Knight]

Well, there would be room if the 3.5 is in place of the gpu. I looked at this last month and tried doing some geometric magic, the 3.5 is huge in this case. The only way is if a discrete gpu isnt needed.

Hmmm. Well, I appreciate the effort. No worries then. I still plan to get one even with just multiple 2.5 mounts. Next question I guess is have you considered beveling the front panel like the NCASE M1? You could probably sneak one or two 2.5 inch drives behind it if you did. Also, with the bottom intake fan, could you test the temps with the side panel intakes blocked off as if it were tempered glass on either side?

Also the front USB ports, if you could make them black instead of blue....

 

[GermanDrifter97]

The only thing I would hope is that we could find a way to integrate a 3.5inch HD for those of us who need a ton of bulk storage but don't want to use an external HD.

There is an 5TB 2.5 inch HDD from Seagate (Barracuda). If that isnt enough you could still get 1TB SSDs in 2.5 inch Sata or M.2 format. Yeah, 3.5 HDDs are faster than the small ones, but my notebook with a 2.5 inch drive isnt that much slower than my PC.

 

[Firewolfy]

Hmmm. Well, I appreciate the effort. No worries then. I still plan to get one even with just multiple 2.5 mounts. Next question I guess is have you considered beveling the front panel like the NCASE M1? You could probably sneak one or two 2.5 inch drives behind it if you did. Also, with the bottom intake fan, could you test the temps with the side panel intakes blocked off as if it were tempered glass on either side?

Also the front USB ports, if you could make them black instead of blue....

Well, as far as beveling, that is something that NCASE has going so I'm trying to stay a bit different.
I have been keeping the side intakes to get good airflow, as the coolers can be as close as 2mm from the cover. Clear or smoked side would be nice but the loss of ventilation means a loss of 1-pass flow and a big drop in cooling efficiency, with only the 1 92mm thin fan.
The optional front power and I/O is a Corsair model so the USB 3.0 will be blue until Corsair changes their design. I'm using a tried and true Corsair power and I/O board due to reliability problems with some of the other cheaper boards.

 

[Firewolfy]

Sorry I haven't posted an update lately. I had some front plates brushed and anodized black last week. Unfortunately the brushing was too rough. I'm hoping to try again next week.
This week I've got 2 covers and such at a powdercoat house trying a fine texture black and a coarse texture black. Hopefully I'll have something to talk about next week!

Thx

 

[Firewolfy]

Below is an update I posted last night over at sff. I'm copying it here for those who don't surf that forum, --and to make my life a little easier not having to type another post (!)


Ok, I have an update, woo hoo! Got back the 2 powdercoated covers. I also got couple front plates PC'd too to see how they would look.

I also got a 3d printed power button this evening. My buddy printed it in green rather than black, so the features are easier to see and check. The button has a thin center circle that allows the power led to shine thru. The production intent is translucent black.

So here is the gloss textured front plate, semigloss textured cover, and the power button. (That's a Noctua 92mm HS on the CPU that looks so tiny.)

And here is a pic with the power off --

I think the front texture is a bit too big and glossy. I'll get the other front plate on tomorrow and post a pic of that.
Thx

 

[darksable]

Below is an update I posted last night over at sff. I'm copying it here for those who don't surf that forum, --and to make my life a little easier not having to type another post (!)


Ok, I have an update, woo hoo! Got back the 2 powdercoated covers. I also got couple front plates PC'd too to see how they would look.

I also got a 3d printed power button this evening. My buddy printed it in green rather than black, so the features are easier to see and check. The button has a thin center circle that allows the power led to shine thru. The production intent is translucent black.

So here is the gloss textured front plate, semigloss textured cover, and the power button. (That's a Noctua 92mm HS on the CPU that looks so tiny.)

And here is a pic with the power off --

I think the front texture is a bit too big and glossy. I'll get the other front plate on tomorrow and post a pic of that.
Thx

It's definitely glossy, but it still looks good. I'd be more concerned with which surface picks up fingerprints the worst.

 

[Firewolfy]

Ok, I have a couple more pics --

Here is the case from last night, but a close up with the power LED on so you can see what I am going for there. A small light circle in what will be a black button:

This evening I took off the front plate and removed the power/USB and I/O board from the case. Then I installed the 2nd plate from the powdercoater. It is the satin with fine texture: --my phone camera kinda stinks, so apologies for that--

 

[GermanDrifter97]

It looks awesome!

If I looked right you have a Noctua Cooler inside? How much space is between the fan and the sidecover?

 

[Firewolfy]

It looks awesome!

If I looked right you have a Noctua Cooler inside? How much space is between the fan and the sidecover?

Yes, that's a Noctua 65mm. The case in those photos is a previous version prototype, and the hex perforated panel in the cover is touching the fan corner bumpers.

The latest case design has the cpu 1mm further away from the cover. Below is a sketch showing the clearances for the latest case design with the hex panel inside the slotted cover. The hex panel is about 2mm from the fan body, and the open area of the hex is very high, at 79%, so I don't expect any airflow problems. Note that for the round hole-perforated cover, there would be no hex panel insert, so the fan would be .8mm further away from the cover. About 2.8mm. Of course with the several part tolerances stacking up, that final gap number is probably ±.5mm.

 

[GermanDrifter97]

ok, so a Wraith cooler should have more than enough space. Thanks for the shematic!

 

[Firewolfy]

ok, so a Wraith cooler should have more than enough space. Thanks for the shematic!

Hmm, I don't have a wraith to check, but I'm reading that it is 80 or 84 mm tall. That would be too tall, unless there are now more than 1 version of the wraith....

 

[Neapolitan6th]

Case looks awesome! I really like the look. Good luck

 

[GermanDrifter97]

Hmm, I don't have a wraith to check, but I'm reading that it is 80 or 84 mm tall. That would be too tall, unless there are now more than 1 version of the wraith....

I'm sorry, I mean the Wraith Spire, the Ryzen 7 1700 stock cooler. It should be 109x103x54

 

[Firewolfy]

Case looks awesome! I really like the look. Good luck

Thanks man!

 

[Sam-1997]

Some Chinese products

 

[Brian_R170]

Whoah, that aluminum is thick.

 

[Firewolfy]

Sam-1997 -- That isn't a bad looking case and very solid, that's for sure. Thick 5 or 6mm alum plate, wow.
It is wider and deeper than the MI-6, but looks like a 65mm cpu cooler might not fit because the case is so thick.
No bends to worry about, just a Lot of threading. Sweet design for someone who had a mill at home.

 

[Sam-1997]

Sam-1997 -- That isn't a bad looking case and very solid, that's for sure. Thick 5 or 6mm alum plate, wow.
It is wider and deeper than the MI-6, but looks like a 65mm cpu cooler might not fit because the case is so thick.
No bends to worry about, just a Lot of threading. Sweet design for someone who had a mill at home.

thanks
There are several computer cases in China
Mostly with thicker aluminum
With the use of CNC precision higher precision processing better
Also can be customized for their own convenience

Your chassis is more fine like branded products
Look forward to your product listing

 

[Firewolfy]

thanks
There are several computer cases in China
Mostly with thicker aluminum
With the use of CNC precision higher precision processing better
Also can be customized for their own convenience

Your chassis is more fine like branded products
Look forward to your product listing

Thanks man. I am getting closer, -although I don't have specific timing defined.

Thx

 

[whatevs]

Have you done any prototyping with the case upside down? So one could use a zero-fan mode PSU mostly in passive mode? Never once had my Corsair SF450 fan come on in my Sugo SG13B case with it setup with fan facing up under the top vent.

And a learned lesson from same case. While it allowed ATX PSU, that created a huge pocket of trapped heat above CPU because it was just 1-2mm from a large GPUs backplate. Think you should double check the 6x2.5" and just have the bottom vent for air flow only. As another qualifier, 7/9mm HDDs top out at 2TB(15mm at 5TB) and most folks would likely take the less heat/complex 2x5TB mirror than 6x2TB raid 10 with that much more heat/noise/cables.

Is it possible to add screw holes so the internal structure can take the panels either way?

Also, is there any chance the MB backplate/GPU holder can be made a lot more minimal to give more acces to other back m.2 configurations?

 

[Firewolfy]

Whatevs--
Haven't done anything with the PSU on top, if that's what you mean. But I do have a SF450 as well.

I have it mounted in the bottom of the first prototype case that I use for my daily computer. The PSU intake fan is facing down, as shown below.
With the fan down, there isn't any heat getting to the PSU from the CPU fan, or the case intake fan I have in the bottom of the case. The SF450 fan rarely runs at all, so I think this is behaving the way you want.

For the HDD/SSD locations, yeah installing 6 of them would be a lot of cables and such. There is room for the qty 3 of 15mm HDD/SSDs you mention., --you can fit at least 1 and at most 3. The max is 3 (but if you have front power and I/O it takes away a HDD spot, and if you have a bottom case fan or SFX-L PSU that takes another spot. So there are a few tradeoffs you would need to decide on, since it is a very small case.

Well, the cover is one pc, so it can't be really flipped over. You are stuck with the standard mounting.


On the access to the back of the MB for M2, there is the window shown below. The PCIE riser runs across it, but it can be rotated out of the way easily enough.

Below is one of the latest renders, showing the latest design: narrow LiHeat riser that will give more airflow around an M2 card, front I/O board option and simplified back face.

 

[whatevs]

Thanks for thought out reply.

Yeah i saw that picture in previous pages, and from my experience in small builds, if you block that bottom vent, you'll have serious heat issues. But seeing the actual bottom, i see you can say its vent only w/o having to change anything after testing final prototype. On that note, besides switching to SFX from ATX, i used the Silverstone ATX to SFX PP08 bracket which is vented instead of solid plate(Generically its Kingwin KWI-SA-08). I can feel heat coming out of there. I think even with your design, the little area under power button, along MB rear ports should be as vented as possible. Which i saw in previous renders. Something to consider. Same for little space under GPU slot.

About the PSU on top, i see now you cant really flip case due to GPU mounting. But i am really curious about having the PSU above GPU/MB. In actual fine print/usage, almost all silent/passive PSUs have note that the optimal/expected condition is that either case fans help with a little air flow or it is sitting open vent up to allow convection. Granted my i3-6300+GTX 1060 6GB + (6x7mm) 2xSSD+4xHDD isn't a lot, even pushing Prime and GPU and disks at same time wasn't enough to bring fan on. At same time, I've never had the PSU be even more than maybe warm to touch the way its mounted in Sugo SG13. Im just curious if you've done any modeling to rule out that configuration for folks wanting to use passive PSUs.

And you're right, i double checked and i was visualizing my m.2 layout wrong. It is along/near PCI-E slot/chipset, as you said is most common.

Anyway, really like your case, wanted to help if i could. I really like that front plate idea. Besides artsy plexiglass designs, I expect folks will mod with card readers, front panel IO ripped out of old case(or ebay) or just a jerry-rigged hub if they really want it, and of course someone will fit a slot loading blu-ray laptop drive... I do think if the panel behind front plate is clean enough, just shipping with the four screws would save you some costs for use elsewhere, would be viable. As most would likely get some plexiglass acrylic plate to work with instead of metal.

 

[Meppe]

hi i like to pre order MI-6 =) is it to late?

Micke from sweden

 

[Firewolfy]

Thanks for thought out reply.

Yeah i saw that picture in previous pages, and from my experience in small builds, if you block that bottom vent, you'll have serious heat issues. But seeing the actual bottom, i see you can say its vent only w/o having to change anything after testing final prototype. On that note, besides switching to SFX from ATX, i used the Silverstone ATX to SFX PP08 bracket which is vented instead of solid plate(Generically its Kingwin KWI-SA-08). I can feel heat coming out of there. I think even with your design, the little area under power button, along MB rear ports should be as vented as possible. Which i saw in previous renders. Something to consider. Same for little space under GPU slot.

About the PSU on top, i see now you cant really flip case due to GPU mounting. But i am really curious about having the PSU above GPU/MB. In actual fine print/usage, almost all silent/passive PSUs have note that the optimal/expected condition is that either case fans help with a little air flow or it is sitting open vent up to allow convection. Granted my i3-6300+GTX 1060 6GB + (6x7mm) 2xSSD+4xHDD isn't a lot, even pushing Prime and GPU and disks at same time wasn't enough to bring fan on. At same time, I've never had the PSU be even more than maybe warm to touch the way its mounted in Sugo SG13. Im just curious if you've done any modeling to rule out that configuration for folks wanting to use passive PSUs.

And you're right, i double checked and i was visualizing my m.2 layout wrong. It is along/near PCI-E slot/chipset, as you said is most common.

Anyway, really like your case, wanted to help if i could. I really like that front plate idea. Besides artsy plexiglass designs, I expect folks will mod with card readers, front panel IO ripped out of old case(or ebay) or just a jerry-rigged hub if they really want it, and of course someone will fit a slot loading blu-ray laptop drive... I do think if the panel behind front plate is clean enough, just shipping with the four screws would save you some costs for use elsewhere, would be viable. As most would likely get some plexiglass acrylic plate to work with instead of metal.

Hey Whatevs,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I've been busy at work, but also setting up a legal business and such. So there is some progress on the MI-6 front!
I have only done realtime testing with the SF450 I have, and like I said, the fan runs pretty rarely. --And kept the PSU in the base (helps with CG and stability a bit too).
As far as the front, for the first production run it will be the standard blank front, with the option of the I/O cutouts and I/O board attached.

hi i like to pre order MI-6 =) is it to late?

Micke from sweden

Meppe,
Yes, you can send me a PM with contact info (email addy, name) and I'll add you to the list!

Thx

 

[Meppe]

here can i send PM to you?

 

[Firewolfy]

I will pm you.

--Fire