Case fans being choked.

[Mav451]

eHume tested a three fans on this D15S review here:
http://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nh-d15s-heatsink-review/ (scroll to the very bottom, see the image marked 'second mount')

Spoiler

At 'normal' RPMs, e.g. 1200, there is no benefit. He did not test at lower speeds unfortunately.
However, since you don't have a bottom intake installed anyway, I think the third front intake is a no-brainer.
Note that unless you have a shorter PSU, you normally can only fit a 120mm in the bottom intake. That eVGA ACX card does really benefit from a direct intake though, so food for thought if you have a 120mm lying around.

 

[Brackle]

Just curious Tainted. Which system you trying to run in there? I too have the exact same case, and exact same 3 FD fans in the front. Did the noctua's make a huge different? I run my X58 system in mine, and I have no issues.

Curious how well those noctua's do. Specially with the filter on.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Just curious Tainted. Which system you trying to run in there? I too have the exact same case, and exact same 3 FD fans in the front. Did the noctua's make a huge different? I run my X58 system in mine, and I have no issues.

Curious how well those noctua's do. Specially with the filter on.

Haven't tested the front panel since I am 100% not going to use it.
The dust filter still chokes the exact same. Airflow is also pretty much the same. The bearings on all 3 of my Fractals made a slight rattling sound which was driving me insane during testing, the Noctuas have a much more consistent and relaxed humming sound. Other than that idk if there was much improvement. I was hoping to use Noctua's anti-vibration screws but it's impossible to pull them through on the inside of the case, since you can't reach them against the wall.

I made my own filter out of old dryer sheets which seems to be the best compromise. Pantyhose works too. Both solutions are better than stock, so I won't be using Fractal's dust filter either.

The Fractals will be going to replace some other dying fans we have, one of which was also killed by the hurricane, RIP. This case will eventually house my 8700K build w/ either a 1080 Ti or Volta x80.

 

[Brackle]

Haven't tested the front panel since I am 100% not going to use it.
The dust filter still chokes the exact same. Airflow is also pretty much the same. The bearings on all 3 of my Fractals made a slight rattling sound which was driving me insane during testing, the Noctuas have a much more consistent and relaxed humming sound. Other than that idk if there was much improvement. I was hoping to use Noctua's anti-vibration screws but it's impossible to pull them through on the inside of the case, since you can't reach them against the wall.

I made my own filter out of old dryer sheets which seems to be the best compromise. Pantyhose works too. Both solutions are better than stock, so I won't be using Fractal's dust filter either.

The Fractals will be going to replace some other dying fans we have, one of which was also killed by the hurricane, RIP. This case will eventually house my 8700K build w/ either a 1080 Ti or Volta x80.

Very very nice. Sorry to hear about the hurricane. Hopefully you and your family were ok. I too plan to step up to a 8700k around November/December.

Hmmmm Gotta admit I think the Pantyhose idea might work well. I too agree that the stock filter is VERY restricting, why I was wondering if the Noctua's would do even better. Did you plan to get those new PPC Noctua fans? They look pretty damn amazing from some of the rare reviews you can find.

 

[doyll]

What's more useful, the 3rd (bottom) front in-take or a 3rd fan on the D15?

Like this:

What others have said. The 3rd fan on cooler is maybe 1c lower temps at low speed with no change at high speed .. unless it helps exhaust case air better and thereby improves case airflow. Also keep in mind the stock D15 fans are 1500rpm and if you buy one it will be 1200rpm .. only way to get the 1500rpm model is with cooler.

Adding a bottom intake with all unused PCIe back slot covers removed almost always improves GPU temps without harming CPU temps.

 

[Master_shake_]

fractal fans are anemic at best.

 

[jimthebob]

Fractal fans aren't bad, my case has 3 of them (two up front pulling fresh air in and through a rad and one in back for exhaust). My CPU is OC'd from 3.7 to 4.2/4.4 and when gaming with an internal exhaust GPU, even when I OC it a bit, too, things stay nice and cool. I understand every use case is going to be different but I'm just tossing in my 2c that in my situation, I like them.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Well I do have a spare Noctua P12, I can stick that down on the bottom intake.

My PSU is pretty big so I'll have to install it first.

 

[doyll]

fractal fans are anemic at best.

New Fractal Design Venturi HP-14 do a decent job, but the others all have wimpy pressure ratings.

 

[daglesj]

Yeah another vote on the "Standard Fractal fans are wimps!" pile.

I swapped out the rear Fractal in my Define R5 for a NF-P14s redux-1500 PWM and it moves a hellova lot more air (feels like twice as much) at the same 900rpm speed than the Fractal.

I then moved the Fractal to the front to join the other 140mm Fractal so I have two of them pulling in at the front and the Noctua pulling out the back.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Finished the build. I accidentally broke the PCI-Express clip on my x16 slot, unfortunately. Came out great otherwise.
I will most likely be replacing with an 8700K build in a few weeks. Not happy with the 4770K.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

I put those 3 Fractal fans into my brother's case and 2 of them failed in less than 15 minutes.

 

[Mav451]

Rofl is that some sort of record?

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Rofl is that some sort of record?

We went into bios to setup his settings, then when we rebooted the rear fan started making a grinding noise. Pulled and replaced it.
Then when we booted up the next time, one of the in-takes started making the same noise. Replaced it.

24 hours later the 3rd one is still doing okay. I think the 2 that came with the case were from the same bad batch, both the same defect.

 

[Ocellaris]

We went into bios to setup his settings, then when we rebooted the rear fan started making a grinding noise. Pulled and replaced it.
Then when we booted up the next time, one of the in-takes started making the same noise. Replaced it.

24 hours later the 3rd one is still doing okay. I think the 2 that came with the case were from the same bad batch, both the same defect.

Sounds like he wasn’t sending enough power to the fans and they were clicking.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

the extra bottom intake will feed the gpu(s) more fresh air. wouldn't be that hard to test.

Left: Bottom fan @ 1000RPM.
Right: Bottom fan OFF.
Drops my GPU temp by 5C +.

All other Case/CPU fans @ 1000RPM constant. GPU @ 1600 RPM (50%).

 

[Speedeu4ia]

Interesting, I have a filter on my case will have to play with it to see if its a big restriction like yours

 

[doyll]

Interesting, I have a filter on my case will have to play with it to see if its a big restriction like yours

If your case air filters are restricting your airflow enough to cause problems you need case fans that are capable of overcoming that little bit of resistance.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Depends on how ventilated the filter is, how many fans you have, and the RPM.
I ended up cutting out two pieces of metal from an old case panel, extending them out over the top and bottom of the case, and wrapping black pantyhouse around the entire front. Basically my case's front panel is just a big cage of pantyhouse wrapped from side-to-side extending about 6 inches.

Best dust filters I ever used, and it's spread over more surface area so it doesn't choke the fans. I regret not doing this years ago.

 

[Krenum]

Yes sir. Fractal Cases restrict your front intake quite a bit. Have been using on on my dads machine for a couple of years, Great for dust filtration but poor for ventilation.

 

[doyll]

Yes sir. Fractal Cases restrict your front intake quite a bit. Have been using on on my dads machine for a couple of years, Great for dust filtration but poor for ventilation.

I've used a lot of Fractal Design cases and yes, they do have some restriction on the front intake due to the door functioning as a sound baffle.
But the real problem is the stock case fans.
Silent Series R2 at full speed are only rated 66cfm and 0.84mm H2O at full speed and 0.54mm H2O at 800rpm
Static pressure rating is the pressure level of resistance at which fan stops flowing air.
The front venting and filter have a resistance of about 0.40mm H2O.
This means when fans are at 800rpm their pressure rating is almost reached so there is very little airflow.

If the case fans are changed to a fan with decent airflow ratings like TY-147A SQ (NF-A14 is same as TY-147A), PH-F140SP or PH-F140MP that has a pressure rating at 800-900rpm of 0.635-0.762mm H2O the case flows air just fine.

Many Fractal Design case owners have changed stock case fans to higher pressure rated fans found case flows air very nicely.

 

[Speedeu4ia]

I've used a lot of Fractal Design cases and yes, they do have some restriction on the front intake due to the door functioning as a sound baffle.
But the real problem is the stock case fans.

Many Fractal Design case owners have changed stock case fans to higher pressure rated fans found case flows air very nicely.

If you havent noticed, he allready replaced fans and had similar results

Haven't tested the front panel since I am 100% not going to use it.
The dust filter still chokes the exact same. Airflow is also pretty much the same. The bearings on all 3 of my Fractals made a slight rattling sound which was driving me insane during testing, the Noctuas have a much more consistent and relaxed humming sound. Other than that idk if there was much improvement. I was hoping to use Noctua's anti-vibration screws but it's impossible to pull them through on the inside of the case, since you can't reach them against the wall.

I made my own filter out of old dryer sheets which seems to be the best compromise. Pantyhose works too. Both solutions are better than stock, so I won't be using Fractal's dust filter either.

 

[doyll]

If you havent noticed, he allready replaced fans and had similar results

1. Seems you didn't notice my reply was to Krenum complete with quote of his post.

 

[Speedeu4ia]

1. Seems you didn't notice my reply was to Krenum complete with quote of his post.

Ok but the thread starter has a Fractal case also with the same issue and has all ready tried what you suggested....

 

[doyll]

Ok but the thread starter has a Fractal case also with the same issue and has all ready tried what you suggested....

If it didn't work for him I can only assume his new fans were not up to the task .. which is supported by OP's fans showing 'a dramatic difference' in airflow when filter is removed. Just checked his fans .. GP-14 fans only has 0.71mm H20 .. about have what most of us conside a good case fan should have.

 

[Speedeu4ia]

If it didn't work for him I can only assume his new fans were not up to the task .. which is supported by OP's fans showing 'a dramatic difference' in airflow when filter is removed. Just checked his fans .. GP-14 fans only has 0.71mm H20 .. about have what most of us conside a good case fan should have.

Bangs head.....He has new fans. You even quoted him and said they were a good choice

NF-A14 FLX will work well.

Looking good.
My PC being off for 4 days killed my mouse apparently, was a PITA posting this lmao.

 

[doyll]

Bangs head.....He has new fans. You even quoted him and said they were a good choice

You seem to be having an over active fettish here. I answered Krenum .. even quoted his post to show who my answer was to.
So why all these posts directed at me? Do you have some kind of forum correctness fettish?

 

[Speedeu4ia]

You seem to be having an over active fettish here. I answered Krenum .. even quoted his post to show who my answer was to.
So why all these posts directed at me? Do you have some kind of forum correctness fettish?

Nope but you seem to have an issue when your advice doesn't work and you want to avoid addressing it

 

[doyll]

Nope but you seem to have an issue when your advice doesn't work and you want to avoid addressing it

Not sure what you mean.
My reply to Kenum was just an explanation of how fans work and what kind of specs are needed for a case intake fan to overcome the resistance of case vents and filter. How does that 'advice didn't work'?

But you did draw me down the rabbit hole about TaintedSquirrel's posts.

 

[Speedeu4ia]

Bangs head again........

You already said the same to TaintedSquirrel, he tried new fans and still had an issue.....heres the kicker...same issue Kenum is refering to..

maybe you need to go back to bed

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

You guys are over-thinking it more than I did.
Yes the stock filter is choking the three NF-A14's even with the front panel off. Since the fans have plenty of access to in-take air, I'm pretty sure even 1 fan would get choked. But I only tested all 3 together. High pressure fans would probably help, but using my own filter was a more economical solution which improved both airflow and dust filtering without requiring me to buy 3 more fans.

After running my old H440 with the stock filter for 4 years, I was really disappointed by the amount of dust that got in. This was a foregone conclusion. Even if the stock filter didn't choke the fans, dust still would've been a problem.

I've been running the new case for 2 months, when I took it apart last week to de-lid, there wasn't a speck of dust inside. I've been using pantyhose to patch up unfiltered case holes for years now so I already knew it was going to be more effective.

Just consider this a friendly heads-up for future builds... Check your fans.

 

[doyll]

You guys are over-thinking it more than I did.
Yes the stock filter is choking the three NF-A14's even with the front panel off. Since the fans have plenty of access to in-take air, I'm pretty sure even 1 fan would get choked. But I only tested all 3 together. High pressure fans would probably help, but using my own filter was a more economical solution which improved both airflow and dust filtering without requiring me to buy 3 more fans.

After running my old H440 with the stock filter for 4 years, I was really disappointed by the amount of dust that got in. This was a foregone conclusion. Even if the stock filter didn't choke the fans, dust still would've been a problem.

I've been running the new case for 2 months, when I took it apart last week to de-lid, there wasn't a speck of dust inside. I've been using pantyhose to patch up unfiltered case holes for years now so I already knew it was going to be more effective.

Just consider this a friendly heads-up for future builds... Check your fans.

What speed are you running your NF-A14's at?

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

I tested at full speed and with the Low/Ultra Low adapters. So 900 to 1200 RPM.

For regular use I run them 600 RPM at idle and 1000 RPM in games.

 

[doyll]

I tested at full speed and with the Low/Ultra Low adapters. So 900 to 1200 RPM.

For regular use I run them 600 RPM at idle and 1000 RPM in games.

At those speeds NF-A14 FLX are rated 0.9-1.2mm H2O .. at which pressure rating they should move a decent amount of air thorugh stock Fractal Design filters. Strange, but sometimes things are strange.

 

[honegod]

move the fans farther into the case by maybe 2 or 3 inches to clear up their intake?

Excellent notion.
With the fan snuggled right up to the filter only the ring of filter that is directly in front of the fan blades gets any airflow.

So you end up with 4 triangular clean spots at the fan corners and a big clean spot right in the middle where the fan hub is.

Moving the fan away from the filter allows air to get to the fan blades from the corners and center of the filter.

Of course you need a duct to seal the fan intake to the filter frame.

You end up with more usable filter area, which gives the fan more air flow due to the smaller pressure drop, and the filter takes longer to clog up because the dust has more area to get stuck on.

Although since the airflow will be increased that means the total ammount of dust hitting the filter will increase.
Hopefully leaving the cleaning schedual unchanged while increasing the aiflow.