Carmack not all that interested in next-gen consoles

PrincessFrosty said:
This is something I've said in the past, basically most games on the consoles are 720p or less, they have no proper AA and very little if any texture filtering, they often have much cut back graphics options such as low resolutions textures etc...

You could spend most of the additional power available in the rumoured next gen hardware by taking the current generaiton of games and running them in 1080p with 4xAA and 16AF, but you wouldn't have much if any power left over for actually improving the scene itself. Native 1080p is over 2x more pixels than 720p so would require twice the power, and AA/AF are per pixel operations which aren't cheap at 1080p performance wise.
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This is exactly what I've been thinking.

The only thing that is going to make next-gen consoles look better is the simple ability to actually render at 1080p and that's not much and they'll probably be 30FPS in an effort to get more detail in.
 
I'd like to see what he could do with google project glass. Augmented reality seems more viable than virtual reality.
 
"Gamers not that interested in Carmack" is what I think when I read that.
 
MavericK96 said:
Yeah, that's true. He definitely should have put the focus more on PC and not consoles, and I think everyone (including him) knows that.
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Rage was him over-extending the limits of current hardware.
Consoles are a static target. Carmack seems to have fallen in love with hardware can do 5 years down the line. He's the Mercedes S class of game developers, neat to look at for what's coming down the pipe, but most people are best served waiting for the price to come down and bugs to get worked out before buying in.
 
LOL.. some of these comments make it seem like the next consoles are crap... He just basically said "Nothing revolutionary, just evolution.". Sure more detatils, but nothing game changing that couldnt be done on current machines. Maybe its because im older and can remember clearly from Nintendo Nes to xbox 360 generation, and the 3D revolution that allowed new game types to develop. Take a look at the mario series, mario 1, 2, 3 and world, all were very similar. Then came new technology that allowed a new way to play and thus mario 64. Every since then, its just been about more detail. Same with shooters, quake allowed for true 3d, and since then its been more detail.

I would love to see VR and Control interfaces get a huge push to hopefully create new game types now that hardware doesnt exactly limit an artist vision.
 
Going from 30 fps to 60 fps would be a massive improvement to people bugged by 30 fps. Its something you either appreciate or don't.
 
The next gen consoles should have arrived last year. I can't stand the washed-out textures and lack of AA. 30 fps isn't really a problem if it never dips under 30!

Carmack used to be a real authority in gaming/ engines, but he seems to have gone a little bit crazy in the last few years.
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
Carmack used to be a real authority in gaming/ engines, but he seems to have gone a little bit crazy in the last few years.
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The last several years have been boring and predictable to many. MEgatextures and VR goggles, while maybe not as exciting as seeing higher res models and textures, is certainly something others aren't doing and has some potential to inject something fundamentally new to the gaming community. Some play it safe and some take risks. It'd be sad if he just quit because a few folks thought he was "crazy", but honestly he doesn't seem like the type of person to care much about that.
 
Carmack is a genius. Even if Rage didn't pan out to be that great of a game, there is no denying Carmack's legacy, experience and technological ability.

I also agree with him about the next-gen consoles. Great graphics are nice, but there needs to ge a revolution in the industry to get people excited again. A new version of Kinect or a touchscreen controller is not going to do that.

I am excited to see what comes of this VR project he is working on. It has the potential to be a game-changer (pun intended).
 
carmack really should make idsoftware develop a game so high quality that all high end machines will suffer for at least 2 years. That was what it was like in the past. Games were pushing so much that our system couldnt handle it unless we upgrade.

the only game that made me upgrade was metro when it came out, replaced my 8800gtx to a 5870. however no games seems to be really pushing my computer anymore that I need another upgrade.
 
FreiDOg said:
Rage was him over-extending the limits of current hardware.
Consoles are a static target. Carmack seems to have fallen in love with hardware can do 5 years down the line. He's the Mercedes S class of game developers, neat to look at for what's coming down the pipe, but most people are best served waiting for the price to come down and bugs to get worked out before buying in.
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Except Rage didn't look like a 5-year-future game, soo...?
 
What he is saying is that we can do everything we want now on current machines as with the upcoming machines. Essentially, we're going to receive the same thing we already have with extra feature set.

As stated above by Zohar78, it will not be revolutionary, but evolutionary.
 
@umeng2002
We already have those. The algorithms are already available as well as the dynamic 3D models you use them on, any improvements are just fine tuning of existing tech. Incremental improvements are not a leap forward.

I've watched some interviews of carmack and his VR prototype, and it's pretty impressive, that's probably the first time i've seen a VR helmet follow head movements like that. From the interview, it looks like he's working out exactly how perception works and building his tech around it. It seems he's experimenting with the gamepad+VR control scheme as well.
 
That does sound cool. I remember getting people over to play wipeout for the first time on a bigscreen. Its funny watching people lean as they were driving the hovercrafts around. Now most people are use to stuff like that so i dont ever see the leaning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnGRHWzGifU We know something like that is the future. How do we get there from here? Sometimes it takes many evolutionary products before we finally get something revolutionary. And with the way the economy been, there isnt many taking chances.
I think Nintendo had a decent idea but not implemented as well as it could have been. Same with Kinect. It seems controlling characters is heading in the right directions.
Honestly since voodoo1/playstation 1/N64 days, I havent been overly stoked about graphics.. Its been more like wow, that looks good. Not the Holy $%$# thats unfreakingbeliveable awesome that was so shocking from the 3d revolution. Crysis came close, even though my 4850 at the time struggled with it. its seems to be a semi plateau of exponentially increase in required power for incrementally increase in graphics fidelity.
I also find it amusing that until recently we play 3d games on 2d displays.
 
Zohar78 said:
That does sound cool. I remember getting people over to play wipeout for the first time on a bigscreen. Its funny watching people lean as they were driving the hovercrafts around. Now most people are use to stuff like that so i dont ever see the leaning...
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I had a neighbor try out TestDrive Unlimited with my G25. He kept looking over his shoulder when he's backing up :D

Here's a video of his VR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYa8kirsUfg
Apparently, he bought a VR, found that it sucked, so he put together a better one.
 
Thanks! That is really neat.. Can you imagine using that in a game like mirrors edge?
 
Wiseguy2001 said:
The next gen consoles should have arrived last year. I can't stand the washed-out textures and lack of AA. 30 fps isn't really a problem if it never dips under 30!

Carmack used to be a real authority in gaming/ engines, but he seems to have gone a little bit crazy in the last few years.
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Almost all of the AAA console games I've played have pretty severe frame rate issues in at least several parts of the game, some of them are constantly struggling throughout, some are just damn near unplayable in places.

30fps is a really bad target for "smooth" game play, I've always been a 60fps minimum kinda guy, and in the last few months I've moved into the 120hz monitor camp for my PC and I'm really just getting used to leaving 60hz behind, I don't think I'll ever go back to 60hz considering how smooth 120hz is.

When I play my PS3 now I'm just kinda disgusted at the frame rate issues, I have a lot of respect for Carmack to make the sacrifices he did to keep Rage at 60fps on the consoles, I fondly hope it will noticed by gamers and push them to expect better from other AAA games (yeah I know that's not going to happen!)
 
From my understanding, he's just unimpressed with the leap in processing power he's probably seen with dev kit prototypes. The industry seems like it's leaning towards lower costs and higher accessibility. They want games that will appeal to a wider audience. Xbox, for example, is trying to sell itself as an all-in-one media center device. At this point you can almost justify buying an Xbox360 despite having no interest in playing any videogames.

Consoles are quickly becoming specialized, low-cost PCs tailored towards entertainment over productivity.
 
I dunno about you guys, but I get the sense that Carmack is more in his element with this VR stuff then compared to shadow-tracing and megatextures of Doom 3 and Rage, respectively... I mean, the stuff he's talking about is more in line with what he did with Wolf, Doom and Quake... Still, problem exists if the game itself sucks on there.

It'd be neat of HardOCP did a review of the new "kit" when it becomes available.
 
Zohar78 said:
That does sound cool. I remember getting people over to play wipeout for the first time on a bigscreen. Its funny watching people lean as they were driving the hovercrafts around. Now most people are use to stuff like that so i dont ever see the leaning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnGRHWzGifU
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Why does a video from the late 90s excite me more than something from the past e3? This market is so saturated now it's just not as fun...
 
wonderfield said:
Due to its association with Carmack, I don't believe it would be given a fair shake.
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I'd label that as a bit unfair. Even when [H] has come down on what its reviewing its never from the view point of total basis. This site actually gives a fair shake to many products that are widely dismissed entirely.

I remember that despite the obvious fail of random number generator benchmarks and how they are often vendor "paid" for so that whoever has there product is getting "special" drivers with a bit more performance versus the competition , [H] still gave 3DMark an attempt over and over again and when it was clear that Futuremark was "selling" performance everyone finally stopped shitting on Kyle and his crew because they presented logical argument in support of this.

I find MANY review sites of any kind are often biased because of the marketing friendly world we live in these days. You wouldn't believe how many "review" sites take "bonuses" for supporting certain products and giving them glowing reviews despite the truth (COUGH Tom's COUGH).

When time comes , if [H] is interested they will do a review and I'm sure it'll be just what we expect , a no bullshit review.
 
no worries carmack I am sure just like this generation of consoles you will have the option to run your bad games at much lower res and frame rates then scale up.
 
Bad "games"? I think ID only did one bad game and that is rage. The market is so full of modern warfare fps games,wish they would just make a quake 5 arena with graphics that will blow u away.... Damn some Sci-Fi space shooter multi player with some kick ass weapons and distructible enviroment would be sweet :D
 
gokuz said:
Bad "games"? I think ID only did one bad game and that is rage. The market is so full of modern warfare fps games,wish they would just make a quake 5 arena with graphics that will blow u away.... Damn some Sci-Fi space shooter multi player with some kick ass weapons and distructible enviroment would be sweet :D
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I've been wishing for an awesome followup to Q3A for years since UT3 failed us. At the very least, id & Epic need to step up their PC development prowess & release something amazing.
 
Too bad Carmack is no longer relevant in the gaming world with the exception of QuakeCon every year.
 
Really, I wonder why RAGE turned out to be a poor console port, it makes me wonder what kind of things he is going to say next.
 
Up next: Carmack will be porting his beloved iphone games to PC. Carmack is irrelevant these days. Not surprised he's not interested in more performance.

He was a genius at extracting decent graphics with very little processing power (e.g. 386DX up to Pentium 4 with GeForce 4; Doom 2 ---> Doom 3) but as graphics performance has increased by another couple orders of magnitude since then, the graphics engines have become just as complicated, relatively, and carmack doesn't seem to have enjoyed the evolution; hence his now fascination with old consoles and iphones. He can relive his youth, so to speak, by developing for smartphones (until they start to become as powerful as PC's were a few years ago)
 
It's all about Design and Carmack knows this without good design doing in decoratively
I learned this about Comic books without good design you just have a Mirror Image of what your tring to achive. What made games like Quake so good was design. Just look at how Minecraft took off!!! Good design do away with trying to make everything ultra realistic just get elements in there symbols some good sounds that are not voice actors you have a a nice game. Make it 3rd person it can work studios just don't have the flexibility to play with being creative.

The problem I have with Rage everything is in Focus with the ID-Tech 5 engine this doesn't make a good game what Randy Ptichford does with Borderlands is amazing he took his concept artwork comic book styled artwork and added it to the game hence it's still a 1st person shooter but it's on wildfire basically and the kids like it.
 
okashira said:
Up next: Carmack will be porting his beloved iphone games to PC. Carmack is irrelevant these days. Not surprised he's not interested in more performance.

He was a genius at extracting decent graphics with very little processing power (e.g. 386DX up to Pentium 4 with GeForce 4; Doom 2 ---> Doom 3) but as graphics performance has increased by another couple orders of magnitude since then, the graphics engines have become just as complicated, relatively, and carmack doesn't seem to have enjoyed the evolution; hence his now fascination with old consoles and iphones. He can relive his youth, so to speak, by developing for smartphones (until they start to become as powerful as PC's were a few years ago)
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I really dont think its quite "he doesnt enjoy it". Its more like he wants something amazing. A game changer that allows a better immersive experience.. Hey, we can draw a basketball with 1000 polygons on current systems, the next generation one can do it with 8000. Ooo more detail... It just doesnt have the same wow factor as going from Super mario world to Mario 64. same with doom to quake. Fundamentally, what will the next systems do that cant be done today with less detail?
 
very true gaming has not advanced in terms of gameplay at all since 90s...we still have quake doom cod but with better graphics..I still think the original unreal tournament & quake 2 had the best gameplay...along with the first & second COD..after that everything turned into console ports...As a matter of fact is COD 2 servers still up bc I miss those games ...
 
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