Carmack apologizes to PC gamers about Rage

I bought Rage recently when it was on sale. The texture issues do seem mostly fixed, but it most certainly suffers from console-itis. And despite what Carmack may say, it most definitely looks like a Borderlands clone. Once they patched it up, it's actually pretty decent. Not being able to use the mouse to see around the environment though while in a vehicle is just plan sad, considering how good it looks.

Doom 3: LOOK AT OUR AWESOME GAME ENGINE - "I cant, its so dark you cant see shit"
RAGE: LOOK AT OUR AWESOME GAME ENGINE - "I cant, you wont let me change my viewpoint."
 
wonderfield said:
Rage is probably best described as an FPS+. It's still very much a basic FPS, just with a few extra layers added on. Even the driving experience is pretty much just standard FPS action on wheels.

He says they may have oversold people on what Rage was, but I actually don't feel like they did. I got out of it what I had expected to get out of it.
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This++

I don't know that they did oversell it, I think people hyped it themselves and I don't pay attention to hype, my expectations were more or less spot on with what I got, so technical issues aside and maybe the deflated ending, I was fairly pleased with the end result.

People should stop buying games on day 1, honestly the amount of times people get burned around here it's getting stupid, just wait 24-48 hours before you buy and get some real gamer feedback.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
People should stop buying games on day 1, honestly the amount of times people get burned around here it's getting stupid, just wait 24-48 hours before you buy and get some real gamer feedback.
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Exactly. And ironically, it was Doom3 that taught me my final lesson in day 1 purchases. Just don't do it, period. If you are so excited about a game you need to pre-order it, maybe you should consider whats really important in your life.
 
All these trolls and naive people are quite funny. Why does the world owe you so much? He's clearly manning up, swallowing his pride to apologize as the head of technology (not even a PR guy) and all you do is bellyache about it. We won't debate how good RAGE was as an experience, but we all know it is still one of the best looking games to date. This means John continues to push the graphics experience for users - he did his job.

However, I will agree that maybe it's time for some new fresh ideas in the gameplay area. I mean no offense to Tim, but maybe he is still seeing things from a decade ago, whom btw I didn't see once at QC this year? That is kind of weird IMO.

I think the hardest thing for id software is reaching out and moving from it's traditional FPS roots that clearly built the industry as clearly this is a double-edge sword for them.
Additionally, what do they think themselves if they continue to work with "modern" shooters with RPG elements and cut-sences. Everyone is a critic - either it's not run-and-gun enough or it's id software not growing enough. Nobody is satisfied because they have such stock in id software and, understandably so, take things very personally.
 
id returns my purchase price to my account..apology accepted..till then..Fuck Off!!
 
Master Blaster said:
All these trolls and naive people are quite funny. Why does the world owe you so much? He's clearly manning up, swallowing his pride to apologize as the head of technology (not even a PR guy) and all you do is bellyache about it. We won't debate how good RAGE was as an experience, but we all know it is still one of the best looking games to date. This means John continues to push the graphics experience for users - he did his job.

However, I will agree that maybe it's time for some new fresh ideas in the gameplay area. I mean no offense to Tim, but maybe he is still seeing things from a decade ago, whom btw I didn't see once at QC this year? That is kind of weird IMO.

I think the hardest thing for id software is reaching out and moving from it's traditional FPS roots that clearly built the industry as clearly this is a double-edge sword for them.
Additionally, what do they think themselves if they continue to work with "modern" shooters with RPG elements and cut-sences. Everyone is a critic - either it's not run-and-gun enough or it's id software not growing enough. Nobody is satisfied because they have such stock in id software and, understandably so, take things very personally.
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Rage isn't one of the best looking games.
 
Master Blaster said:
All these trolls and naive people are quite funny. Why does the world owe you so much? He's clearly manning up, swallowing his pride to apologize as the head of technology (not even a PR guy) and all you do is bellyache about it. We won't debate how good RAGE was as an experience, but we all know it is still one of the best looking games to date. This means John continues to push the graphics experience for users - he did his job.
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a. Actions speak louder than words.

b.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/19/rage_gameplay_performance_image_quality/7

RAGE looked like ass at launch and still looks like ass today. Apology<fixing your shit.
 
What games are you guys playing to make RAGE look like ass? Besides from the muddy textures up close, I can't think of anything outside of BF3 and Witcher 2; all being arguably better.
 
Rage isn't awful looking, but I'm not sure about best looking either. I think the forced high framerate might trick you into thinking the game looked better than it did. I always scares me how often people play at 30fps with vsync off and think a game "runs well."
Not saying that's the case, but I'd say Rage doesn't look better than COD, Crysis 2, Max Payne 3, BF3, etc.
It's middle of the pack at best, and really bad when you get close to anything.
The up-close textures are especially rough, although I honestly do appreciate the push for 60fps. The issue is that the PC didn't need to have those ugly textures to hit that. They could scale weaker PC's like the consoles and give stronger PC's better textures.
 
g1xx3r said:
id returns my purchase price to my account..apology accepted..till then..Fuck Off!!
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You went on faith alone and didn't like it, oh well. If you don't want to chance it then fucking wait and look before you buy it. YOU bought the game for the asking price.

edit: Got my post edited for name calling, which isn't how / what I meant it to be. I was arguing that it's, in my opinion, a dumb mentality to get upset for the reason I stated, wasn't trying to be a jerk. Sorry anyway homie.
 
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ocellaris said:
Because they made you buy the game, right?
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I think the heart of the argument is that Rage was a defective product. If it were productivity software or something material that failed to function as advertised, you would be able to return it for a refund or have it repaired. Since a refund is not generally an option when it comes to games, one would expect the studio to at least invest some time into patching. It's a reasonable expectation from the standpoint of the customer. Nevermind the fact that they knew it was broken before it even went gold. They owe a lot of people more than an apology.
 
apology not accepted. ID is nothing more than a bunch of corporate sellouts. Theyre going to try to do the console thing and pay for it in revenue when they figure out that they should've been making Call of Duty clones instead of half assed Doom/Quake clones that nobody likes and are too shitty to play on PC.
 
They did patch Rage though, between the driver fix and the game patches the texture pop in issues were fixed? At least for me on my 5970 back when it launched, and my 580 since.

I think there is some minor pop in anyway just inherent in the technology since it's partly based around predicting what textures to cache ahead of time, I don't see that so much as a defect and more just a trade off.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
They did patch Rage though, between the driver fix and the game patches the texture pop in issues were fixed? At least for me on my 5970 back when it launched, and my 580 since.

I think there is some minor pop in anyway just inherent in the technology since it's partly based around predicting what textures to cache ahead of time, I don't see that so much as a defect and more just a trade off.
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I (think) where it knows where you're looking is actually done in screen space... which is problematic because, well... it can't guess what's not on your screen.

But maybe they could make it less aggressive with how it streams shit out. Like with UE3, yeah the textures pop in sometimes, but you're not going to see them constantly loading if you're just slowly spinning around. You have to actually not see that texture for a decent chunk of time before it's seemingly evicted from the cache. But again, two different techniques and I dunno if it's really viable to do that with virtual texturing. I don't really see why you couldn't have it cache stuff longer if you're just sitting on a load of free vram, but I'm not entirely positive.
 
ocellaris said:
Because they made you buy the game, right?
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No,because they knowingly put out a broken product. :rolleyes:

socK said:
You went on faith alone and didn't like it, oh well. If you don't want to chance it then fucking wait and look before you buy it. YOU bought the game for the asking price.

edit: Got my post edited for name calling, which isn't how / what I meant it to be. I was arguing that it's, in my opinion, a dumb mentality to get upset for the reason I stated, wasn't trying to be a jerk. Sorry anyway homie.
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Was gonna answer but it seems your inner child got the best of you and Oldie beat me to it..Move along.:rolleyes:
 
g1xx3r said:
No,because they knowingly put out a broken product. :rolleyes:



Was gonna answer but it seems your inner child got the best of you and Oldie beat me to it..Move along.:rolleyes:
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What part of my theoreticized plan of "waiting" (which would later be proven quite successful) doesn't cover that scenario? The game was broken on some hardware, they said it was a shitty situation that stayed shitty longer than it should of. AMD's stuff was broken, and id should of been in contact to make sure it wasn't for launch, but it didn't happen and it sucked.

After the fucking pile of horse shit that was Brink I have since grown exceedingly weary of preorders. RAGE was broken, it was fixed, I can think of far shittier purchases -- but the ultimate end all is you still bought it. I didn't have it the millisecond it launched and I missed some dumb TF2 items, but I didn't get titty fucked.

Ironically, I'd probably be willing to actually preorder Doom 4 because of what Carmack said in the keynote, but I probably won't anyway.

PS I didn't call you anything. I literally said that I think that's a dumb mindset, albeit more harshly worded.
 
I'm going to pre-order Doom 4, and play it day one/hour one most likely. Did the same for Rage. While it wasn't "GOD THIS SUCKS" for me, it was glitchy and buggy. Gameplay I thought was solid for what it was. I just can't help but want to play the latest and greatest/latest garbage the second it's released. Call it idiocy, call it impatience.
 
BiH115 said:
I'm going to pre-order Doom 4, and play it day one/hour one most likely. Did the same for Rage. While it wasn't "GOD THIS SUCKS" for me, it was glitchy and buggy. Gameplay I thought was solid for what it was. I just can't help but want to play the latest and greatest/latest garbage the second it's released. Call it idiocy, call it impatience.
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Just understand that gamers impulsiveness is why publishers aren't as concerned about initial release quality as they should be.
 
Monkey God said:
Just understand that gamers impulsiveness is why publishers aren't as concerned about initial release quality as they should be.
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I just feel like that shouldn't be an issue (but yet it is). If a bunch of people buy a game because it looks like it'll be good and because it has a big name backing it, shouldn't that be all the more reason to keep the game up to date with bug fixes and other issues? If someone is excited to buy the game and it turns out to be a bug-fest, the publishers should take note that the game is doing shitty by reading about it online. The internet is the biggest complaint board in the world, yet somehow nobody seems to care about the little things, that are in fact, big to us, the crowd.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
They did patch Rage though, between the driver fix and the game patches the texture pop in issues were fixed? At least for me on my 5970 back when it launched, and my 580 since.

I think there is some minor pop in anyway just inherent in the technology since it's partly based around predicting what textures to cache ahead of time, I don't see that so much as a defect and more just a trade off.
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It's unplayable on my system. I can put everything on low and it stutters and hiccups. Don't turn on FRAPS as it turns into pure garbage. And the textures pop in so much that I can't tell the enemies from the environment. Texture pop is so bad that the enemies charge at me looking like blobs and then become detailed 1/2 way to me. I just can't play like that. It's installed on a 3TB 7200 Seagate HD I purchased early July that holds my Steam collection. Everything else runs fine off it.

I can play BF3 with everything on Ultra and butter smooth in comparison to Rage. Of course I'm running the latest drivers for everything and Win 7 64. I doubt I will be getting the Doom 3 rehash that Carmack is putting out. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. I loved Doom 3, Quake, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, etc. Oh well at least it was pretty cheap.
 
The thing with id now that I think generates the most eye-rolling is that they used to be integral to the industry. From Doom to Quake 3, and even Doom 3 to a much lesser extent, it drove the industry forward. Everything after that, for what, 10+ years now, has been nothing more than par at best to everything else the industry is doing, and sub-par at worst.
 
TwistedAegis said:
The thing with id now that I think generates the most eye-rolling is that they used to be integral to the industry. From Doom to Quake 3, and even Doom 3 to a much lesser extent, it drove the industry forward. Everything after that, for what, 10+ years now, has been nothing more than par at best to everything else the industry is doing, and sub-par at worst.
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That seems to be true.... I think in some ways there were heading in the right direction of quake 3/Doom 3. Doom 3 single player was solid,but the multi was where the game let down. They should have made the multiplayer similar to quake, with a few tricks/traps that used the lighting, kinda like q2dm3 fragpipe. They might want to steal a page back from bungie/343 studios with the halo series, Make simpler game play of run and gun with good storytelling and epic battles.
 
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